Fogbow

Love birds! Still have that damn pornstache. Cut the hair though. Musta been Christmas.

Mom was a crafter too. Wierd. She even made her own clothes. She was a frustrated artist just like Barbara. Neither one was recognized for their work outside our homes despite putting their work out there at county fairs, state fairs, church sales, street markets, etc. Walls covered in ribbons, but could never make a big sale. You can see Dad's chairs. He made nice stuff, and like Mom could never get someone to bite at a price that made it worth their time.

My love of snow goes back a long way. We went to relatives in Minnesota back in 63 or so, and a blizzard blew through. I was a Florida kid and this was my baptism in snow. Had to borrow clothes from my cousins.

I think this was my matriarchal grandparent's honeymoon in 1931. What a pair!

You weren't alone on the pornstache front, Bill.
. .
And where'd all that hair go?

Phew! Good to know. Big hair too. You looked like one of the musicians in Creedance.

There's a good chance Creedence (on vinyl!) was playing at the party where this pic was taken.

Oh yeah. That was a party. Look at those moonpie irises.

Don't bogart that joint my friend
Pass it over to me ...

Nice pictures!

Annrc wrote: ↑Sun Jan 14, 2024 11:32 amNice pictures!

It was fun to find them. I put small boxes together for each of the kids and my family that would take care of them. I was surprised how many we have that are 100 years old. Someplace around here I know we have a framed picture of five generations with my matriarchal grandmother as the infant. I still have to find that. It used to hang on the wall, but got put away someplace.

So nice.

bill_g wrote: ↑Sun Jan 14, 2024 12:01 pm

Annrc wrote: ↑Sun Jan 14, 2024 11:32 amNice pictures!

It was fun to find them. I put small boxes together for each of the kids and my family that would take care of them. I was surprised how many we have that are 100 years old. Someplace around here I know we have a framed picture of five generations with my matriarchal grandmother as the infant. I still have to find that. It used to hang on the wall, but got put away someplace.

I've got a 5 generations photo with my oldest sister as the infant.

I also have a five-generation photo with my daughter up to great-grandparents. Pretty awesome.

Very cool. Memory Lane can be a lovely ramble.

A question for the IAALs (or anyone willing to dip their toe in) about proper gratuity etiquette.

I retained an excellent tax and estate lawyer to help me with probate. It looks like she is going to save me at least $10k, and probably more. I'm considering offering her 20% over and above her normal fees.

Am I an idiot, or this something people do when they are grateful for the service they've received from very competent representation?

Thank you.

bill_g wrote: ↑Fri Jan 19, 2024 7:36 pm A question for the IAALs (or anyone willing to dip their toe in) about proper gratuity etiquette.

I retained an excellent tax and estate lawyer to help me with probate. It looks like she is going to save me at least $10k, and probably more. I'm considering offering her 20% over and above her normal fees.

Am I an idiot, or this something people do when they are grateful for the service they've received from very competent representation?

Thank you.

Not a lawyer, but that doesn't even sound ethical to me. A nice thank you, maybe some flowers to the office or a gift certificate to a nice restaurant. You're paying her for a service and she's providing it. My son's doctor called him with a surgical plan yesterday that will save him a couple of thousand dollars for his upcoming surgery. Should he tip him?

sugar magnolia wrote: ↑Fri Jan 19, 2024 7:46 pm

bill_g wrote: ↑Fri Jan 19, 2024 7:36 pm A question for the IAALs (or anyone willing to dip their toe in) about proper gratuity etiquette.

I retained an excellent tax and estate lawyer to help me with probate. It looks like she is going to save me at least $10k, and probably more. I'm considering offering her 20% over and above her normal fees.

Am I an idiot, or this something people do when they are grateful for the service they've received from very competent representation?

Thank you.

Not a lawyer, but that doesn't even sound ethical to me. A nice thank you, maybe some flowers to the office or a gift certificate to a nice restaurant. You're paying her for a service and she's providing it. My son's doctor called him with a surgical plan yesterday that will save him a couple of thousand dollars for his upcoming surgery. Should he tip him?

ETA I tipped my plumber yesterday because he came immediately, undercharged us and didn't even account for the helper he had with him (he takes on kids with records as apprentices and we love him for it) and I didn't have exact change. Told him to go get something warm to drink for him and his helper after they spent an hour under the house in below freezing weather. He's also been our plumber for 10 years and we desperately want to keep him happy. He did try to make change for me.

My CHF0.02 - ask what charity she would like to have supported and send a contribution in her name.

RTH10260 wrote: ↑Fri Jan 19, 2024 7:59 pm My CHF0.02 - ask what charity she would like to have supported and send a contribution in her name.

Oooohhhhh....I like that idea.

sugar magnolia wrote: ↑Fri Jan 19, 2024 7:46 pm Not a lawyer, but that doesn't even sound ethical to me. A nice thank you, maybe some flowers to the office or a gift certificate to a nice restaurant. You're paying her for a service and she's providing it. My son's doctor called him with a surgical plan yesterday that will save him a couple of thousand dollars for his upcoming surgery. Should he tip him?

Interesting. You think it involves ethics. Okay. This is why I asked.

Thank you Sugar.

PS - I would have tipped the plumber too. The news here says the trades have been swamped with requests for service because of frozen pipes and broken electrical drops. When someone goes the extra mile for me, I love showing my gratitude.

sugar magnolia wrote: ↑Fri Jan 19, 2024 7:46 pm
Not a lawyer, but that doesn't even sound ethical to me. A nice thank you, maybe some flowers to the office or a gift certificate to a nice restaurant. You're paying her for a service and she's providing it. My son's doctor called him with a surgical plan yesterday that will save him a couple of thousand dollars for his upcoming surgery. Should he tip him?

Spot on. I helped a client get $400K in life insurance from the VA when the client’s child died without it because of an error in their service record. The client wanted to give me a lot of money - like four times what I charged him for the work. I obviously couldn’t take it, and told him so.

A couple days later I got a lovely bouquet, which was more meaningful to me than money would have been.

I was a lone ranger - no secretary or paralegal or anything, but if your lawyer has support staff, consider including them in your gesture.

Maybenaut wrote: ↑Fri Jan 19, 2024 9:34 pm Spot on. I helped a client get $400K in life insurance from the VA when the client’s child died without it because of an error in their service record. The client wanted to give me a lot of money - like four times what I charged him for the work. I obviously couldn’t take it, and told him so.

A couple days later I got a lovely bouquet, which was more meaningful to me than money would have been.

I was a lone ranger - no secretary or paralegal or anything, but if your lawyer has support staff, consider including them in your gesture.

Hmm. Okay. Thank you Maybe. I'm glad I asked. It's not obvious to me why you couldn't accept it, but it sounds like it raises ethical questions where none exist, and therein lies the problem. Forewarned is forearmed. I wouldn't want a gift to become a punishment. It spoils the intent. I'll ask her directly what she thinks is appropriate.

I'm fortunate to have people like yourself and Sugar to ask. Thank you both so much.

Here’s why I felt like I couldn’t take it:

The fee I quoted for my work was what I thought the work was worth based on the number of hours I thought it would take to complete. It was in no way contingent upon the outcome.

My client had lost his son. It was an emotional time for him. The son (who died of a fatal illness) understood before his death that the issue of the insurance would not be resolved until after he was gone. The client was grateful that I exposed the government’s callous indifference toward his son, both in making the error and in failing to correct it once it was discovered.

But here’s the thing - all I can ever do as a lawyer is to talk on my client’s behalf. I can’t make the court or administrative board or whoever is making the decision agree with me. And it could just as easily have gone the other way. If we had lost, the client likely would have thought he wasted his money, but I would have written the same briefs. So it would have felt wrong to take it.

I honestly don’t know if there is any prohibition on renegotiating a fee after the fact. But I felt icky just having the conversation with the client.