Bragg Manhattan DA charges tfg? Hush money. tfg “INDICATED!” - CONVICTED!!

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p0rtia
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Bragg Manhattan DA charges tfg? Hush money. tfg “INDICATED!”

#2001

Post by p0rtia »

realist wrote: Sun May 19, 2024 8:11 pm I still have no idea how they get to the underlying crime without Weisselberg’s corroborating testimony.

Even if he lied and or took the Fifth, I still say better than the nothing, it seems to me at least, they presented in that regard. :shrug:
I'm quite convinced.

There is a paper trail a mile wide, starting with these two docs, with notes by W (left) and C (right) on the bank statement, and McConney, W's no. 2. McConney's notation that the amount had to be doubled "for taxes", and his testimony that this was what W told him to do, wraps it up.

It is not reasonable to conclude that TFG did not know he was reimbursing Cohen, who paid off Stormy on his behalf. To argue that he thought he was paying a retainer to C, you would have to believe either 1) Neither W or C (or M) told him about it, to protect him--and banked on him paying nearly half a mil to Cohen without question in monthly payment for 11 months, or 2) He was too busy to pay attention to the checks he was signing--in which case you still have to believe no one told him (and that he threw over his lifelong system of bill paying).

All they have to prove is that he was part of the conspiracy; they don't have to prove he directed the details of the payments. The mafia don is still complicit when he tells his hit man to "take care of it" even though he doesn't participate in the murder or direct the choice of weapon.

I remember in the Phil Spector trial, when the despicable Vincent DiMaio appeared as an expert witness for the defense, and argued that Lana Clarkson had shot herself in the mouth, a suicide, whilst sitting in a chair next to Spector's door, with her purse of her shoulder. Also not reasonable. BTW, the defense trashed Lana up and down the public highway--though unlike Cohen, she didn't have a history of being a lying shit, and was dead.

The first jury hung 10 to 2. But hat doesn't make the story any less absurd and unreasonable. Happily, the second jury nailed the POS.
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Bragg Manhattan DA charges tfg? Hush money. tfg “INDICATED!”

#2002

Post by raison de arizona »

Kendra wrote: Sun May 19, 2024 8:50 pm I don't have a link, and too lazy to look it up, but I heard reported that an email went out that court is starting earlier tomorrow to get things moving. Shoot me if I'm wrong :oldlady:
If that is true, tfg will have a cow. There are already clips of him complaining about how early court is.

Also, too, crazy supporters are now saying that tfg is fake sleeping in court in order to display disrespect. It’s all a show :lol:

As if.
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Bragg Manhattan DA charges tfg? Hush money. tfg “INDICATED!”

#2003

Post by MN-Skeptic »

There's no way that I'd believe that they'd, at the last minute, decide to start the court day early. How could they know that all the jurors would be available at that time? It just doesn't make sense.
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Bragg Manhattan DA charges tfg? Hush money. tfg “INDICATED!”

#2004

Post by p0rtia »

They talked about the possibility of starting early/going late, because Marchan wants to get the case to the jury by early Thursday if not Tues afternoon. Staying late seemed to be preferred to arriving early if i recall.

No sign of this for tomorrow AM.
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Bragg Manhattan DA charges tfg? Hush money. tfg “INDICATED!”

#2005

Post by chancery »

If a trial session is going to start early, it's usual to discuss it on the record at the previous trial session. That didn't happen last Thursday, and the jurors were asked to show up on Monday at 9:30 am, which is the normal time for the jury to arrive. Tr. 3966.

The court is able to contact jurors at home, and it's conceivable that the court could contact the jury and counsel to schedule an early start that hadn't been arranged at the previous trial session, but it would involve a lot of work.

After the jury was dismissed on Thursday, the judge and counsel discussed scheduling, beginning at Tr. 3982. The judge several times referred to the possibility of starting early, especially on the day for summations, but it wasn't clear that he was referring to the Monday session.

Edit: jinxed by p0rtia.
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Bragg Manhattan DA charges tfg? Hush money. tfg “INDICATED!”

#2006

Post by p0rtia »

Starting at 8:45 without the jury.
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Bragg Manhattan DA charges tfg? Hush money. tfg “INDICATED!”

#2007

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ImageImagePhilly Boondoggle
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Bragg Manhattan DA charges tfg? Hush money. tfg “INDICATED!”

#2008

Post by bill_g »

wah-waaaah

find the presidential nucky asap!!!

[insert pacifier image here]
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Bragg Manhattan DA charges tfg? Hush money. tfg “INDICATED!”

#2009

Post by realist »

bob wrote: Sun May 19, 2024 8:37 pm
realist wrote: Sun May 19, 2024 8:11 pm I still have no idea how they get to the underlying crime without Weisselberg’s corroborating testimony.
The underlying crime is state election fraud, and I believe Cohen's testimony is sufficient (but not the strongest) for that.

Yeah, I know what it is, just didn’t think Cohen’s testimony quite got there.
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Bragg Manhattan DA charges tfg? Hush money. tfg “INDICATED!”

#2010

Post by New Turtle »

He brought all the legal scholars with him today- Dersh, Turley, Bernie Kerik and Kash Patel.
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Bragg Manhattan DA charges tfg? Hush money. tfg “INDICATED!”

#2011

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New Turtle wrote: Mon May 20, 2024 9:53 am He brought all the legal scholars with him today- Dersh, Turley, Bernie Kerik and Kash Patel.

:lol:
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Bragg Manhattan DA charges tfg? Hush money. tfg “INDICATED!”

#2012

Post by Dr. Ken »

New Turtle wrote: Mon May 20, 2024 9:53 am He brought all the legal scholars with him today- Dersh, Turley, Bernie Kerik and Kash Patel.
I guess Rudy was a little tied up at the moment.
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Bragg Manhattan DA charges tfg? Hush money. tfg “INDICATED!”

#2013

Post by Maybenaut »

realist wrote: Mon May 20, 2024 9:51 am
bob wrote: Sun May 19, 2024 8:37 pm
realist wrote: Sun May 19, 2024 8:11 pm I still have no idea how they get to the underlying crime without Weisselberg’s corroborating testimony.
The underlying crime is state election fraud, and I believe Cohen's testimony is sufficient (but not the strongest) for that.

Yeah, I know what it is, just didn’t think Cohen’s testimony quite got there.
I don’t think Cohen’s testimony necessarily had to get there. It was just another brick in the wall.
"Hey! We left this England place because it was bogus, and if we don't get some cool rules ourselves, pronto, we'll just be bogus too!" -- Thomas Jefferson
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Bragg Manhattan DA charges tfg? Hush money. tfg “INDICATED!”

#2014

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My other perhaps also unpopular opinion is that both sides’ attorneys did a pretty lousy job.
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Bragg Manhattan DA charges tfg? Hush money. tfg “INDICATED!”

#2015

Post by Maybenaut »

realist wrote: Mon May 20, 2024 10:14 am My other perhaps also unpopular opinion is that both sides’ attorneys did a pretty lousy job.
I haven’t been following the trial that closely, but I don’t doubt it. From what I’ve seen, I think there’s enough to convict as a matter of law, but who knows what the jury is going to do.
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Bragg Manhattan DA charges tfg? Hush money. tfg “INDICATED!”

#2016

Post by MN-Skeptic »

Gift link to NYTime's live updates in today's trial - Live Updates: Trump Lawyer Asks Cohen About Hush-Money Reimbursement
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Bragg Manhattan DA charges tfg? Hush money. tfg “INDICATED!”

#2017

Post by Reality Check »

I have been following most of Cohen's testimony, There are a few questions I thought would have been asked but I have not heard except #1 came up on redirect just now. .
  1. Was Cohen an employee of the Trump Organization or a contractor? (If he were a direct employee that would explain why he never had a retainer agreement.) I see that came up this morning during redirect:
    Katie Phang @KatiePhang
    1h
    HOFFINGER: You were asked about a retainer agreement?
    COHEN: when you are an employee, it is not necessary

    HOFFINGER:when you left [Trump Org.] in 2017, you became private counsel?
    COHEN: Correct

    HOFFINGER: Did you ever have a retainer agreement?
    COHEN: no, because I never expected to get paid

    HOFFINGER: did you bill for any services in 2017 or 2018?
    COHEN: No maam
    Maybe the transcript will show that Hoffinger made it clear Cohen was an employee the entire time until the end of 2016.
  2. What was his salary?
  3. Did he receive a 1099 form for the $420k paid to him as a reimbursement in 2017?
  4. Didn't he realize 1099 income would be reported to the IRS?
  5. Wouldn't this 1099 form also be a false document?
It has taken me a while to make the math on the $420,000 payment to Cohen to work. Cohen paid Stormy Daniels $130,000. He had contracted to pay Red Finch $50,000. SO Cohen was to be reimbursed for $180,000 in payments he made. Weisselberg then "grossed up" the $180,000 to $360,000 since he knew Cohen was in the 50% marginal tax bracket. Another $60,000 was added to make up for the bonus Trump had stiffed Cohen on in 2016. So that gets us to $420,000 ... I think anyway.

Now Cohen only actually paid Red Finch $20,000 in cash in a brown paper bag. So he actually gave himself a "self help" bonus of $60,000, a $30,000 reimbursement for the amount he didn't pay plus the Weisselbrg $30,000 gross up. I never saw anyone ask Cohen was he actually reported as income for 2017. He should have reported the entire $420,000 if the Trump Organization filed a 1099 for that amount.
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Bragg Manhattan DA charges tfg? Hush money. tfg “INDICATED!”

#2018

Post by bill_g »

My money is on Cohen wanting to incriminate himself hoping for an immunity once the Boss returns to office.
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Bragg Manhattan DA charges tfg? Hush money. tfg “INDICATED!”

#2019

Post by sterngard friegen »

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Neither disbarred nor disciplined after representing President Barack Obama. :oldman:
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#2020

Post by New Turtle »

One thing the judge said today while the defense was trying to get their expert witness approved, the charge that makes the other charges a felony, they don't have to prove beyond a reasonable doubt, they can get a conviction on circumstantial evidence. I'm sure since he said it, he will put that in the jury instructions.
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#2021

Post by much ado »

bill_g wrote: Mon May 20, 2024 3:26 pm My money is on Cohen wanting to incriminate himself hoping for an immunity once the Boss returns to office.
No way.
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Bragg Manhattan DA charges tfg? Hush money. tfg “INDICATED!”

#2022

Post by bill_g »

much ado wrote: Mon May 20, 2024 4:14 pm
bill_g wrote: Mon May 20, 2024 3:26 pm My money is on Cohen wanting to incriminate himself hoping for an immunity once the Boss returns to office.
No way.
I know. Silly thoughts creep into my head sometimes.
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Bragg Manhattan DA charges tfg? Hush money. tfg “INDICATED!”

#2023

Post by raison de arizona »

Oh my.
https://x.com/lawofruby/status/1792650217415741778
Lisa Rubin @lawofruby wrote: NEW: In one of the wildest things I've ever seen in court, Judge Merchan just cleared the courtroom after accusing Trump witness Robert Costello of "staring me down" after the judge admonished him for visibly and audibly reacting to objections Merchan sustained.
“Remember, democracy never lasts long. It soon wastes, exhausts, and murders itself. There never was a democracy yet that did not commit suicide.” —John Adams
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Bragg Manhattan DA charges tfg? Hush money. tfg “INDICATED!”

#2024

Post by p0rtia »

Reality Check wrote: Mon May 20, 2024 2:55 pm I have been following most of Cohen's testimony, There are a few questions I thought would have been asked but I have not heard except #1 came up on redirect just now. .
  1. Was Cohen an employee of the Trump Organization or a contractor? (If he were a direct employee that would explain why he never had a retainer agreement.) I see that came up this morning during redirect:
    Katie Phang @KatiePhang
    1h
    HOFFINGER: You were asked about a retainer agreement?
    COHEN: when you are an employee, it is not necessary

    HOFFINGER:when you left [Trump Org.] in 2017, you became private counsel?
    COHEN: Correct

    HOFFINGER: Did you ever have a retainer agreement?
    COHEN: no, because I never expected to get paid

    HOFFINGER: did you bill for any services in 2017 or 2018?
    COHEN: No maam
    Maybe the transcript will show that Hoffinger made it clear Cohen was an employee the entire time until the end of 2016.
  2. What was his salary?
  3. Did he receive a 1099 form for the $420k paid to him as a reimbursement in 2017?
  4. Didn't he realize 1099 income would be reported to the IRS?
  5. Wouldn't this 1099 form also be a false document?
:snippity:
It is established in the testimony that Cohen was on salary throughout his years with fuckhead, ending in Dec. 2016. He was asked if there was a retainer, and said there was not. He received either 250 or 350 a year (just can't remember; it's one or the other) and a 150K annual bonus.

He received no salary at any point after that (2017 onward), in his role as personal attorney to fuckhead. He said he expected to make his money through consulting gigs (i.e., from companies wanting to take advantage of his access).
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Bragg Manhattan DA charges tfg? Hush money. tfg “INDICATED!”

#2025

Post by neonzx »

raison de arizona wrote: Mon May 20, 2024 4:26 pm Oh my.
https://x.com/lawofruby/status/1792650217415741778
Lisa Rubin @lawofruby wrote: NEW: In one of the wildest things I've ever seen in court, Judge Merchan just cleared the courtroom after accusing Trump witness Robert Costello of "staring me down" after the judge admonished him for visibly and audibly reacting to objections Merchan sustained.
Jim Johnson approved. :boxing:
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