Israel

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RVInit
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Re: Israel

#351

Post by RVInit » Wed Dec 06, 2017 5:43 pm

GhostOfSolomon wrote:
Wed Dec 06, 2017 5:30 pm
This is a statement he made while he was still a candidate, which was clarified soon afterwards
“Jerusalem will remain the capital of Israel, and it must remain undivided,” Obama declared Wednesday, to rousing applause from the 7,000-plus attendees at the American Israel Public Affairs Committee policy conference.

But a campaign adviser clarified Thursday that Obama believes “Jerusalem is a final status issue, which means it has to be negotiated between the two parties” as part of “an agreement that they both can live with.”

“Two principles should apply to any outcome,” which the adviser gave as: “Jerusalem remains Israel’s capital and it’s not going to be divided by barbed wire and checkpoints as it was in 1948-1967.”
I don't recall that he ever got on TV as President and undermined peace talks that were underway, as the Palestinian representatives indicated is currently the case.


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Re: Israel

#352

Post by maydijo » Wed Dec 06, 2017 5:56 pm

Flatpointhigh wrote:
Wed Dec 06, 2017 12:55 pm
RTH10260 wrote:
Wed Dec 06, 2017 4:16 am
maydijo wrote:
Tue Dec 05, 2017 10:26 pm
From memory Jerusalem is about 45 minutes away from Tel Aviv, and the airport is closer to Tel Aviv than Jerusalem. Why upset the apple cart by moving the embassy? What practical purpose does it serve? Oh, that's right, it keeps the Evangelicals happy.
What's this about the Evangelicals? Israel remains Jewish and not Christians! Are the Evangelicals having day dreams about once owning the country?
No, it's about "the Second Coming" which can't happen until all diaspora Jews are back in the Holy Land. Once we are all back, Armageddon can happen, with Russia leading the attack on Israel.
Then, we will either be killed for refusing to convert, or live as joyous Christians if we do.
Well, it's not like you don't have a choice in the matter. Sheesh, some people, you dangle the stick of death, destruction and eternal damnation, or the carrot of giving up 6 millenia of cultural and religious traditions and living happily ever after, over their heads, and they act like YOU'RE unbalanced!



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RVInit
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Re: Israel

#353

Post by RVInit » Wed Dec 06, 2017 8:35 pm



"I know that human being and fish can coexist peacefully"
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Re: Israel

#354

Post by Tiredretiredlawyer » Wed Dec 06, 2017 8:46 pm

Suranis wrote:
Wed Dec 06, 2017 7:36 am
maydijo wrote:
Wed Dec 06, 2017 4:49 am
The Evangelicals want to usher in the Second Coming. According to Revelation, that will only happen once there's been a butt-load of unrest and war in the Middle East. Hence, anything that creates tension is good for their apocalyptic dreams.

What, you thought Evangelicals actually gave a crap about Israel? Nah, Israel's just a stepping stone for the end of the world.
Yep. The destruction of Israel is one of their End Times Prophecies. Anything that encourages the rest of the Middle east in getting the hell on with it is good in their book. So they will encourage the Israelis to be as belligerent as they can, and they will move the embassy for the sole reason that it will piss a load of the Middle east off.
Pope John XXIII never mentioned the destruction of Israel as one of his goals. Did I miss something when I was celebrating only having to abstain one or two hours before communion and not from midnight? I also celebrated that not eating meat on Friday was encouraged but no longer a mortal sin.


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Re: Israel

#355

Post by maydijo » Wed Dec 06, 2017 8:52 pm

Tiredretiredlawyer wrote:
Wed Dec 06, 2017 8:46 pm
Suranis wrote:
Wed Dec 06, 2017 7:36 am
maydijo wrote:
Wed Dec 06, 2017 4:49 am
The Evangelicals want to usher in the Second Coming. According to Revelation, that will only happen once there's been a butt-load of unrest and war in the Middle East. Hence, anything that creates tension is good for their apocalyptic dreams.

What, you thought Evangelicals actually gave a crap about Israel? Nah, Israel's just a stepping stone for the end of the world.
Yep. The destruction of Israel is one of their End Times Prophecies. Anything that encourages the rest of the Middle east in getting the hell on with it is good in their book. So they will encourage the Israelis to be as belligerent as they can, and they will move the embassy for the sole reason that it will piss a load of the Middle east off.
Pope John XXIII never mentioned the destruction of Israel as one of his goals. Did I miss something when I was celebrating only having to abstain one or two hours before communion and not from midnight? I also celebrated that not eating meat on Friday was encouraged but no longer a mortal sin.
Phhhhh. Catholics aren't real Christians, don'tcha know? You're lumped in the same category with us Mormons (and Muslims and Jews and Hindus and Buddhists and Atheists) who are all heretics who will burn in hell at the Second Coming. So you might as well eat a nice, big bloody steak on Good Friday, because you're going to hell anyway.



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Re: Israel

#356

Post by Tiredretiredlawyer » Wed Dec 06, 2017 8:54 pm

Thanks, maydijo, I thought that Atheists had a special place in hell. Knowing I'll have lots of company makes me feel so much better :-D !!!!!


“I’ve been hooked since my first smell of C-4.” Linda Cox, first female Air Force Explosive Ordnance Disposal Technician, first to lead her own unit, go to war, be awarded a Bronze Star, and hold the highest enlisted rank of chief master sergeant.

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Re: Israel

#357

Post by bob » Wed Dec 06, 2017 8:56 pm

CNN: White House admits Trump's Jerusalem decision hurts peace process:
President Donald Trump's decision Wednesday to recognize Jerusalem as Israel's capital has temporarily derailed the Israeli-Palestinian peace process, two senior White House officials acknowledged after Trump's speech.

The question now for those officials: For how long?

"We're prepared for derailment -- temporary, I hope. Pretty sure it will be temporary," said a senior White House official, who acknowledged that the President's peace team has not spoken with furious Palestinian officials since the Trump's announcement.

That "derailment" was a cost the White House was prepared to accept to fulfill Trump's campaign promise. And two senior White House officials said they felt making the announcement now -- before Israelis and Palestinians have reached the negotiating table -- would help mitigate the damage to the peace process.

* * *

But the move left Palestinian officials fuming, with Palestinian Authority President Mahmoud Abbas and his chief negotiator Saeb Erakat blasting the US decision and claiming Trump's move "disqualified" the US from mediating the peace process.

The White House officials expressed hope that the Trump administration has built enough trust with the Palestinians to push through the current friction, but could not say when they believed the relationship would be patched up.

* * *

While Trump had previously expressed a desire to hold off on moving the embassy to gauge the prospects for peace, the officials said Trump decided to move forward with the announcement because it will take months before US officials know if the current process -- led by the President's son-in-law Jared Kushner and his Special Representative for International Negotiations Jason Greenblatt -- is likely to bear fruit.

And while senior administration officials have expressed hope that the move could help facilitate the peace process, two senior White House officials acknowledged Wednesday that that was not a central goal.

"His decision wasn't meant to help (the peace team). It was meant to do what he chose to do, but it was also meant to respect his other goal which is to reach a historic peace agreement," one senior White House official said.


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Re: Israel

#358

Post by maydijo » Wed Dec 06, 2017 8:59 pm

Hell is really big. All the cool kids are going there.

Which means I'll be relegated to some secondary hell, where all the geeks are stuck. It's full of a bunch of lunch tables, all with only one person sitting there because nobody else wants to sit with them.



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Re: Israel

#359

Post by John Thomas8 » Wed Dec 06, 2017 9:00 pm

What was the actual point of stepping out and saying something this utterly stupid? What's the end game?



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Re: Israel

#360

Post by maydijo » Wed Dec 06, 2017 9:03 pm

John Thomas8 wrote:
Wed Dec 06, 2017 9:00 pm
What was the actual point of stepping out and saying something this utterly stupid? What's the end game?
He's like a 2 year old presented with a tower of blocks. He can't help himself, he has to knock it over.



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Re: Israel

#361

Post by John Thomas8 » Wed Dec 06, 2017 9:10 pm

maydijo wrote:
Wed Dec 06, 2017 9:03 pm
John Thomas8 wrote:
Wed Dec 06, 2017 9:00 pm
What was the actual point of stepping out and saying something this utterly stupid? What's the end game?
He's like a 2 year old presented with a tower of blocks. He can't help himself, he has to knock it over.
But people are going to die because he felt like babbling like a crack monkey.



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Re: Israel

#362

Post by bob » Wed Dec 06, 2017 9:13 pm

John Thomas8 wrote:
Wed Dec 06, 2017 9:00 pm
What was the actual point of stepping out and saying something this utterly stupid? What's the end game?
1. 2020; playing to his base;
2. Sticking it to the mooslooooooms!!!


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Re: Israel

#363

Post by maydijo » Wed Dec 06, 2017 9:17 pm

John Thomas8 wrote:
Wed Dec 06, 2017 9:10 pm
maydijo wrote:
Wed Dec 06, 2017 9:03 pm
John Thomas8 wrote:
Wed Dec 06, 2017 9:00 pm
What was the actual point of stepping out and saying something this utterly stupid? What's the end game?
He's like a 2 year old presented with a tower of blocks. He can't help himself, he has to knock it over.n
But people are going to die because he felt like babbling like a crack monkey.
And when they do he'll use it as evidence of how violent the Moose Lambs are. Any violence perpetrated by the Israelis will, of course, be justified as self-defense.



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Re: Israel

#364

Post by Estiveo » Wed Dec 06, 2017 9:17 pm

Tiredretiredlawyer wrote:
Wed Dec 06, 2017 8:54 pm
Thanks, maydijo, I thought that Atheists had a special place in hell. Knowing I'll have lots of company makes me feel so much better :-D !!!!!
Well us gays have been getting sent there for eons, so rest assured that it's nicely decorated and the brunches are literally to die for.


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Re: Israel

#365

Post by Tiredretiredlawyer » Wed Dec 06, 2017 9:18 pm

Estiveo wrote:
Wed Dec 06, 2017 9:17 pm
Tiredretiredlawyer wrote:
Wed Dec 06, 2017 8:54 pm
Thanks, maydijo, I thought that Atheists had a special place in hell. Knowing I'll have lots of company makes me feel so much better :-D !!!!!
Well us gays have been getting sent there for eons, so rest assured that it's nicely decorated and the brunches are literally to die for.
All right!


“I’ve been hooked since my first smell of C-4.” Linda Cox, first female Air Force Explosive Ordnance Disposal Technician, first to lead her own unit, go to war, be awarded a Bronze Star, and hold the highest enlisted rank of chief master sergeant.

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Re: Israel

#366

Post by qbawl » Wed Dec 06, 2017 9:29 pm

Tiredretiredlawyer wrote:
Wed Dec 06, 2017 8:46 pm
Suranis wrote:
Wed Dec 06, 2017 7:36 am
maydijo wrote:
Wed Dec 06, 2017 4:49 am
The Evangelicals want to usher in the Second Coming. According to Revelation, that will only happen once there's been a butt-load of unrest and war in the Middle East. Hence, anything that creates tension is good for their apocalyptic dreams.

What, you thought Evangelicals actually gave a crap about Israel? Nah, Israel's just a stepping stone for the end of the world.
Yep. The destruction of Israel is one of their End Times Prophecies. Anything that encourages the rest of the Middle east in getting the hell on with it is good in their book. So they will encourage the Israelis to be as belligerent as they can, and they will move the embassy for the sole reason that it will piss a load of the Middle east off.
Pope John XXIII never mentioned the destruction of Israel as one of his goals. Did I miss something when I was celebrating only having to abstain one or two hours before communion and not from midnight? I also celebrated that not eating meat on Friday was encouraged but no longer a mortal sin.
Off Topic
Card carrying atheist now, still that is the way I remember things from my altar boy youth but I have been chastised by laity and clergy alike who insist it was never a MORTAL sin. Personally I think that is revisionist heresy.



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Re: Israel

#367

Post by RTH10260 » Wed Dec 06, 2017 9:31 pm

bob wrote:
Wed Dec 06, 2017 8:56 pm
CNN: White House admits Trump's Jerusalem decision hurts peace process:
President Donald Trump's decision Wednesday to recognize Jerusalem as Israel's capital has temporarily derailed the Israeli-Palestinian peace process, two senior White House officials acknowledged after Trump's speech.

The question now for those officials: For how long? :snippity:
How long? Until past the next intifada that is in the making. And the Trump administration has just lost all credibility and any solution will come with a future administration.

and
:snippity:
While Trump had previously expressed a desire to hold off on moving the embassy to gauge the prospects for peace, the officials said Trump decided to move forward with the announcement because it will take months before US officials know if the current process -- led by the President's son-in-law Jared Kushner and his Special Representative for International Negotiations Jason Greenblatt -- is likely to bear fruit.
These WH un- and non-diplomats think they can just push one point and it won't taint the other? And they have yet to learn the lesson of diplomacy, that everything takes its time. The officials from the stripped down State Department could have given a clue. Even T.Rex may have dropped a helpful hint to the moron in the WH.
:snippity:
"His decision wasn't meant to help (the peace team). It was meant to do what he chose to do, but it was also meant to respect his other goal which is to reach a historic peace agreement," one senior White House official said.
No historic peace agreement for you, Donald. You're a failure in the WH. You can now send Jared home to wife and kids. He has no job anymore to do in the Middle East.



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Re: Israel

#368

Post by neeneko » Wed Dec 06, 2017 9:52 pm

RVInit wrote:
Wed Dec 06, 2017 5:43 pm
I don't recall that he ever got on TV as President and undermined peace talks that were underway, as the Palestinian representatives indicated is currently the case.
That is the key difference, and the trouble Trump seems to be having. Campaigning for office and being in office are two very different things, with a completely different set of constraints and people you need to appeal to. No one really cares if a candidate says such things because the diplomatic repercussions are not part of their equation, so they are safe to not take too seriously.

But once you are president, you are playing a very different game. Trump is still campaigning.....



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Re: Israel

#369

Post by Addie » Thu Dec 07, 2017 8:09 am

The Hill
Trump didn't seem to have complete understanding of Jerusalem decision: report

President Trump did not completely grasp the ramifications of recognizing Jerusalem as Israel's capital, several advisers told The Washing Post.

Trump wanted to seem "pro-Israel" and focused on "making a deal," two advisers told the Post.

According to the newspaper, some administration officials voicing their support for the decision included Vice President Mike Pence and adviser Jared Kushner, who is also Trump's son-in-law.

Others, though, advocated against the move, including Secretary of State Rex Tillerson and Defense Secretary Jim Mattis.

Trump on Wednesday recognized Jerusalem as Israel's capital and announced plans to relocate the U.S. Embassy there.


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Re: Israel

#370

Post by RTH10260 » Thu Dec 07, 2017 8:39 am

Netanyahu on Trump's Jerusalem Declaration: Our National, Historical Identity Being Recognized Today
Breaking with traditional U.S. policy, Trump is expected to officially recognize Jerusalem as Israel's capital Wednesday

Noa Landau Dec 06, 2017 12:35 PM

Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu said Wednesday that Israel's "historical and national identity is receiving important expressions every day, but especially today." The prime minister was speaking in a Facebook video ahead of the expected announcement by U.S. President Donald Trump to recognize Jerusalem as Israel's capital. 

Earlier Wednesday, in his first public comments since the White House confirmed Trump will make the Jerusalem announcement, Netanyahu avoided any mention of the decision. Instead, the prime minister focused his remarks on the Iranian threat to the region on Wednesday.

https://www.haaretz.com/israel-news/.premium-1.827146



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Re: Israel

#371

Post by RTH10260 » Thu Dec 07, 2017 8:41 am

RTH10260 wrote:
Thu Dec 07, 2017 8:39 am
Netanyahu on Trump's Jerusalem Declaration: Our National, Historical Identity Being Recognized Today
:snippity:
https://www.haaretz.com/israel-news/.premium-1.827146
I wonder if Nethanyahu will make a bold step for Trump and invoke their equivalent of imminent domain to secure a huge plot of real estate in Jerusalem for the USA, as such land is hardly available in the city.



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Re: Israel

#372

Post by RTH10260 » Thu Dec 07, 2017 8:43 am

Israel braces for unrest after Hamas calls Donald Trump's Jerusalem decision a 'declaration of war'

Raf Sanchez, jerusalem 7 DECEMBER 2017 • 11:50AM

Hamas has called for new intifada against Israel in response to Donald Trump’s decision to recognise the Jerusalem as the Israeli capital.

"This Zionist policy supported by the US cannot be confronted unless we ignite a new intifada,” said Ismail Haniyeh, the Islamist militant group’s leader, during a speech in Gaza.

He added: "The US decision is an aggression, a declaration of war on us, on the best Muslim and Christian shrines in the heart of Palestine, Jerusalem."

Israeli security forces are bracing for potentially serious unrest on Friday when Palestinians often hold demonstrations after afternoon prayers. Israel’s military said this morning it was calling up reinforcements in the occupied West Bank as a precaution.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2017/12 ... -decision/



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Re: Israel

#373

Post by Tiredretiredlawyer » Thu Dec 07, 2017 8:44 am

neeneko wrote:
Wed Dec 06, 2017 9:52 pm
RVInit wrote:
Wed Dec 06, 2017 5:43 pm
I don't recall that he ever got on TV as President and undermined peace talks that were underway, as the Palestinian representatives indicated is currently the case.
That is the key difference, and the trouble Trump seems to be having. Campaigning for office and being in office are two very different things, with a completely different set of constraints and people you need to appeal to. No one really cares if a candidate says such things because the diplomatic repercussions are not part of their equation, so they are safe to not take too seriously.

But once you are president, you are playing a very different game. Trump is still campaigning.....
Well, maybe Trump can stop the Republican Donor Act of 2017 (another Fogbowzer came up with the name) since he promised not to cut Medicare or Social Security. I know I am asking for consistency but a girl can dream.


“I’ve been hooked since my first smell of C-4.” Linda Cox, first female Air Force Explosive Ordnance Disposal Technician, first to lead her own unit, go to war, be awarded a Bronze Star, and hold the highest enlisted rank of chief master sergeant.

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Re: Israel

#374

Post by Addie » Thu Dec 07, 2017 8:53 am

WaPo
‘This will be bad’: Clashes break out in West Bank over Trump Jerusalem speech

RAMALLAH, West Bank — Clashes between Palestinian protesters and Israeli soldiers broke out Thursday in Ramallah and other places in the West Bank and Gaza Strip, one day after President Trump announced that his administration would recognize Jerusalem as Israel’s capital.

The Palestinian Authority called for a general strike in Palestinian cities and, in Gaza, the Islamist Hamas movement urged its followers to ignite a third intifada, or uprising, against Israel.

At a checkpoint near Ramallah, Israeli forces fired dozens of rounds of tear gas and stun grenades at hundreds of Palestinian protesters gathering to air their anger over Trump’s statement.

They burned tires and pelted the soldiers with rocks. ...

Clashes also erupted in East Jerusalem and at the border fence between Israel and Gaza. There were early reports of injuries on both sides.


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Re: Israel

#375

Post by Sterngard Friegen » Thu Dec 07, 2017 9:15 am

Tiredretiredlawyer wrote:
Thu Dec 07, 2017 8:44 am
neeneko wrote:
Wed Dec 06, 2017 9:52 pm
RVInit wrote:
Wed Dec 06, 2017 5:43 pm
I don't recall that he ever got on TV as President and undermined peace talks that were underway, as the Palestinian representatives indicated is currently the case.
That is the key difference, and the trouble Trump seems to be having. Campaigning for office and being in office are two very different things, with a completely different set of constraints and people you need to appeal to. No one really cares if a candidate says such things because the diplomatic repercussions are not part of their equation, so they are safe to not take too seriously.

But once you are president, you are playing a very different game. Trump is still campaigning.....
Well, maybe Trump can stop the Republican Donor Act of 2017 (another Fogbowzer came up with the name) since he promised not to cut Medicare or Social Security. I know I am asking for consistency but a girl can dream.
'Filly!



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