My opinion is that he should. Although I realize this would be setting a different standard to President Obama, in my opinion, this whole deal has gotten out of hand. This eligibility issue is now having a impact on the President's job and Congress also.

In my opinion, once it was clearly proven that President Obama was indeed born in Hawaii, much of this BS would go away. Granted, you would still have some of the nutcases but I don't think you would have the Republican party playing their little games like they are doing now. Just my opinion.

Hasn't this already been done? He did one thing he did not have to, and that was to prove his middle name...look at the results of that.

It has been clearly proven that President Obama was indeed born in Hawaii, several times, and the BS has not only not gone away, it continues unabated and perhaps even more so than before. Showing a document that proves what WE already know is not going to do anything but add yet another layer of conspiracy on to all those that already exist. All the information is out there for any reasonable person to know that Obama was born in Hawaii, and that he is indeed a natural born citizen of the U.S.

No one should ever give in to terrorists, and by doing so that's exactly what he'd be doing. That is really all the birfers are. All the BS has absolutely nothing to do with a document from Hawaii...nothing.

I think much of this BS has to do with this conspiracy theory by the Republicans. Not that I think they believe this BS (most of them) for one minute but they are using this issue to spread seeds of doubt regarding President Obama. I think if President Obama would shut them up about this, then much of this other BS would also die down.

No. He should be required to do NOTHING every other president hasn't had to do.

Absolutely right. He is doing the right thing by ignoring these assholes.

I wholeheartedly agree with every word that realist said above. Let me tack on one more point:

For Obama to release the original birth certificate at this point would also set a HORRIBLE precedent, both from a moral and a legal standpoint. Realist's "terrorist" analogy applies here. Until Obama is ordered by a court with the authority to do so, he is under ZERO legal obligation to provide his personal documentation. To do so now would be admitting that the birthers' war of attrition through misinformation and scare tactics is a successful avenue for getting what they want, regardless of legal standing or reasoning. That, as I'm certain President Obama is aware, is absolutely unacceptable. It would encourage every whackjob conspiracy moron in the universe to continue with their stupidity and threats, because they got the result they wanted from him. No... Obama has always been in the right and should stick to his guns.

If, and ONLY if, a court were to order him to release any documentation would it then be reasonable to do so. He would comply with the court's decision, which would hopefully be adhering to legal standing, and no unjustified precedent would be created. Mind you, the odds of this happening are worse than me hitting the Powerball... last week. Even then... his COLB is suitable in the eyes of the court to confirm his citizenship, which makes the original all the more irrelevant. It's only relevant to morons who have created a lavishly fake scenario in their own pathetic minds where it might somehow BE relevant.

A court may never require President Obama to produce his birth certificate but the Republican party gets bolder and bolder with each passing day. Congress could require President Obama to produce his birth certificate. I would much rather do something on my terms and conditions than to be forced and be under their terms and conditions.

Have you taken a good look at President Obama lately?

I suspect job stress is pretty high as president. I doubt very seriously a small band of nutjobs are any part of his worries which may be causing him to appear stressed, including the idiotic Republican congress members who doubt his eligibility. He has far more important things to worry about. They had their chance to object, and didn't. They know damn well he's eligible, and the more nuts they are about it the better.

In fact, unless he received a court order to do so, I doubt it's even a teeny tiny blip on his radar as a concern, nor should it be, and even then it would not be a concern, more like a two-minute phone call and it's over. Even then, nothing will change with the whackjobs, they'll just move on in their rhetoric to the next insane idea they have ginned up in their depraved minds to undermine and undercut the foundation of this country.

I recall stating this point to a birfer last year.

Let 'em whine.

Bogus, I'd agree with you if the potential benefits outweighed the drawbacks of setting a new precedent. Unfortunately, I don't think the long form would do change enough people's minds. Heck, Phil at RSoL is bragging about (paraphrasing here) "what authority dictates that a COLB establishes article II section 1 eligibility?" which if taken to its logical conclusion means that no President has established his eligibility pursuant to article II section 1 because no mechanism to establish eligibility has been used to my knowledge. ZOMG you guys have been living under One-World-Government Tyranny since 1787

Now there are plenty of what I'll call proto-birthers. People who don't read Orly and sing praises of Our Lady Liberty. They have no idea about de Vattel or what the Indonesian school records say. But they heard a rumour that he was born in Kenya or that he has Indonesian citizenship. And something about him just makes them uncomfortable about him. He just doesn't seem like what they think an American is. Now yes, ok he released the birth certificate, but why did he take so long to do so? And what about that Kenyan one someone emailed me and 210 of my closest friends about? What is Obama hiding?

Birferism is an emotional delusion. Plenty of republican congressman are playing silly games with this. They know the president is eligible but because there are enough of their constituents who believe this stupidity, they play games. As far as I am concerned too much right-wing nonsense gets treated seriously in your country. It should be ridiculed not capitulated to. Part of me is surprised that Birferism is treated as much as a pariah that it is. After all, Death panels are, at least IMHO, equally stupid and equally untrue. Same with President Obama addressing school children = he's going to turn my kids into communists.

I have a Prime Minister I did not vote for and likely will never vote for. He's still my Prime Minister and if he does something good (which he does from time to time) I can applaud him for it or write an angry letter to the editor when he's doing something stupid. While we have crazies up here it seems that we don't let their insanity become part of the public discourse. We instead mock them endlessly.

I agree that President Obama is not required to produce anything. And I certainly did not say he should produce his "original" BC. However, a certified copy of his certification of live birth, which is what Hawaii provides, is his BC according to Hawaii DOH. Present this to the Senate exactly like John McCain did his.(according to one of John McCain's staffers Shawn.)

In my opinion, it would stop these birthers right in their tracks. Much of the opposition to Obama's school speech are birthers in my opinion.

If Van Jones is forced to resign, in my opinion, every single birther in Congress and at the State level should also be forced to resign. truther or birther = conspiracy theory.

Below are birthers who are opposing health care.

Sorry, Bogus, I just don't see it. It seems to me it would produce the worst of both worlds -- his supporters would say, 'why is he giving in to such nonsense?", and his opponents would say, 'see, it's the same old crap -- no doctor's signature, no hospital name, his father was a non-citizen -- and what about those Indonesian adoption records'?

No, I understand your frustration, but I don't think he has anything to gain by doing that.

There is a process for challenge. It was utilized in counting the electoral votes in Jan. 2005.



Birfers had been wailing for many months. No objections were made in January 2009. NONE. ZERO.

In the iterim, no evidence has ever surfaced that Obama is ineligible. NONE. ZERO.

But that's the problem - showing the long form BC WON'T shut them up. Who knows how many of them will immediately starting finding "clues" that it's somehow bogus. The fact that there was confusion for a while as to whether or not the original long-form still existed will become reason for birthers to be suspicious about the long-form, even though the confusion has been clarified.

Then you have the birthers who believe that in Hawaii, any relative can go to the hospital, say a baby was born, and without any other proof get an official birth certificate that would make it look like the child was an American citizen, even if he hadn't actually qualified at birth. Add to them the ones who believe that even if Obama really WAS born in Hawaii, he can't be President because his father wasn't American and you have to have TWO American parents.

So, you see, nothing would be resolved. Maybe a very few would say "ok, that's good enough for me" but most of them already have back-up excuses as to why Obama wouldn't be qualified even if the original long-form is produced that it would do Obama no good to produce it and would only serve to give the birthers that much more power.

As realist pointed out, birthers are nothing more than terrorists. Terrorism isn't defined by using violence to achieve your goals, but as using terror - or fear - to accomplish your goal. The more people you can keep in a state of fear, the more power you have over those people. The birthers want The Scary Black Man our of "their" White House, and their only method of doing so without actually resorting to violence is to make sure everyone is afraid that Obama is illegitimate and is here to take away all of their freedoms while ruining the nation in every other way imaginable as well.

As a result, there is no benefit WHATSOEVER to them to acknowledging anything that might help legitimize Obama, unless they can offset it with more theories and accusations that render that potentially legitimizing information irrelevant.

If Obama were to release his long-form certificate, it might silence a few - very few - birthers, but the rest will just move on to the next argument - and they'll know that if they put enough pressure on Obama, he just might cave to their demands - and that's a terrorist's ultimate goal.

I agree. However, I think there is going to be one, maybe more of them who do resort to violence. The Republican's want President Obama to fail and it appears they are doing everything in their power to see that his Administration does fail. But, when President Obama fails, we all fail, including them. They are cutting their own nose off to spite their face. Just doesn't make any sense. In a strong, healthy and stable economy and nation, perhaps there would be no consequences to this type of childish behavior.

He HAS.

Here:

Yeah - if/when it does happen, I certainly won't be surprised. In fact, I think I'll be more surprised if it doesn't happen than if it does - which is really depressing to think about, so as soon as I'm done posting this, I'm gonna go find some nice kitty pictures.



Agreed, 100%



In a strong, healthy and stable economy and nation, I don't think there would be nearly as much of this type of childish behaviour, because during the good times, people aren't nearly as easy to frighten nor are they looking for scapegoats to blame for their problems. Right now, many people have fear as just kind of a "base level" because of the economy (among other things,) and pushing the idea that the President isn't *really* the President gives them a place to focus their discontent.

Still, whether the economy is good or bad, I think there should be consequences for this kind of behaviour. If I recall correctly, there's something in the general category of libel and slander where even if you're actually telling the truth, if it's done to be malicious, a person can be hit with criminal sanctions for it. Now, WE all know that the birther arguments are fill of crap, but if I understand this right, even if the birthers were telling the truth, their goal is to get Obama basically fired from his job, which could be construed as showing malicious intent, I'd think.

Since they are lying, however, and - again - are doing it for malicious purposes (especially the lawyers involved) I would think there should be penalties under slander and libel law - and possibly other laws as well - that would allow for them to be prosecuted.

Granted, we think he has but the birthers don't agree. After all, factcheck is part of the conspiracy, remember?

These people see this as some kind of war; good against evil and they want to win. But, when they win, America and everyone in America loses. What part of this don't they get? If President Obama fails, then we all fail. What part of this don't they get?

America should be just as united as we were after 9/11. Why aren't we? The money that is being spent on these stupid lawsuits should be going to help the homeless and those in need. Insteading of being at odds with our neighbors, we should be helping one another to get through these tough times. One of my son's teachers actually gave him a dirty look because he wants to watch President Obama's address.

The Senate, as an entity, isn't asking... *shrug* They've already passed a resolution, along with the rest of Congress, which acknowledges in crystal clear terms that Obama was born in Hawaii. The issue is already resolved as far as Congress is concerned. Birfers will never get used to that fact, but they should.

I don't "think" he has I KNOW he has, and most of them do also, it's just an excuse for their ingrained fear and hatred.

"Someone said" factcheck is connected to or an arm of (or whatever the proper terminology was) the Annenbrg Foundation. Well, no it's not, and they've been shown that is not true over and over, but as long as that someone who says it is on their side, they believe it (or at least continue to promote the idea which, frankly, I think is the case with at least 75% of 'em, they're just parrots).

"Someone said" he was born in Kenya and now you see them glomming on to not one but two obviously fake Kenyan documents of birth, when anyone with even a modicum of intelligence knows they're fake...but "someone said." It will never end until he's either not re-elected in 2012 or 2016, and probably not even then.

It's the same with every other birther mantra, and releasing a different document than his COLB, which is a legal document for any purpose, will not only not quell the rhetoric, it will more than likey only provide yet another excuse for more "conspiracy" theories. In fact, the seeds are already planted for those "just in case" he does.

Frankly, the country's economy could turn completely around, be the best it's ever been, we could pay of the national debt, have quality health care for everyone, be at peace with the world by 2012 and they would still not stop...cuz, well...Obama is a scary dude.

But the only resolution that counts is the one they passed for McCain, you silly rabbit. They are totally different things. I can't begin to count the times I've heard or read the phrase, "Why didn't they pass a resolution for Obama like they did for McCain?" Well, they did, but it just doesn't count.

What it amounts to is that when it came down to it, with no speeches to make to their constituents, they voted yea on the resolution. To now go to their constituents and say differently is disingenuous at best, and should stop...but it won't.

I disagree. I think the level of this insanity is going to be directly tied to the economy, health care, etc., etc.

Just to clarify, when I was saying that we probably wouldn't have this problem is the economy had been good, etc., I was meaning that the problem most likely would not have gained the momentum it did both at the election and again after the inauguration. At this point, even if the economy were to become turbo-charged, I don't think the issue will go away. It may lose some of its intensity, but too many people have put far too much time and money into this whole thing to let go of it.

Eggzakly.

Sorry, I think that issue is all about Obama's race and it will not go away. All you have to do is look at geography to see that -- there is a hard core of people who simply can't cope with the concept of Barack Obama as President (the name doesn't help either).

In my view, the reason the birth thing gained such traction is that objectively, Obama's done a pretty good job, and the economy has improved and certainly is looking brighter for the future. So there isn't a REAL political issue they can foment anger about -- that is, Obama hasn't created any easy targets for his opposition, such as Bush's Iraq war. So they have to INVENT things to get worked up over, whether it is birth certificate or death panels or FEMA camps or whatever.

I figure that if a Presidents opponents are all angry about FAKE issues, then the President is doing pretty well and should stay the course. Its when people start getting angry about real stuff that he'd have to worry.