Walter Fitzpatrick

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realist
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Walter Fitzpatrick

Postby realist » Fri Jul 26, 2013 10:44 am

Did you know that Cordwood's court martial is "the most investigated in US History"? [-(

Sometimes history, as far as a birther is concerned, only goes back 5 yearsminutes.





OTOH I suspect the Mideast atrocities were investigated in much more detail. Walt's CM was small potatoes.

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Postby ZekeB » Fri Jul 26, 2013 10:58 am

Can you clarify something for me, Maybenaut? From what I've read, if an officer's conviction is later overturned because it was determined that there was a fraud upon the court, he can ask for his commission back. The request may or may not be granted. It appears that an enlisted man has no such similar option. Is this true?I saw no place where the enlisted man could be "made whole" again. As for the officer, he may or may not be made whole.

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Walter Fitzpatrick

Postby mimi » Fri Jul 26, 2013 11:13 am

“…you are not to enter the Field Office or communicate with it or any of its personnel, effective immediately. If you do, we will initiate appropriate legal measures against you. It is our intention to have no further contact with you of any kind.”

Gee, Walt. They're just not that into you. [-( They think you're out of your freakin' mind. Was it the strawberries, Walt?

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Postby Maybenaut » Fri Jul 26, 2013 12:12 pm

Can you clarify something for me, Maybenaut? From what I've read, if an officer's conviction is later overturned because it was determined that there was a fraud upon the court, he can ask for his commission back. The request may or may not be granted. It appears that an enlisted man has no such similar option. Is this true? I saw no place where the enlisted man could be "made whole" again. As for the officer, he may or may not be made whole.

DISCLAIMER -- THIS IS NOT LEGAL ADVICE -- JUST MY UNDERSTANDING OF THE PROCESS ...





The short answer is, I'm pretty sure the rules are the same for everyone, officer or enlisted.





The long answer follows:





What can happen differs slightly depending on whether the case is on appeal or not (and the rules may vary slightly by service).





For cases that get automatic appellate review, the member is placed on "appellate leave," meaning he is still "in" the military (and still subject to the UCMJ), but is in a no-duty status (so he can grow his hair out, get a job, what have you, but he needs to be ready to come back to duty if his conviction is overturned), but his military status is kind of "on hold." If the case is on appeal, and the entire conviction is set aside for any reason, or if the punitive discharge is set aside, the person is returned to duty. At that point, the government has a choice to make, depending on the reason the conviction or sentence was set aside. The government can retry the person (or give him a new sentencing hearing); if they do, he'll be in a paid status as long as the trial is ongoing. If he's acquitted at the retrial, or if the government decides not to retry him or for some reason cannot retry him, he'll get back pay for all that time he was in confinement or on appellate leave. They might, depending on the circumstances, separate him administratively (but he'll still get back pay). If they retry him and he's convicted again, he gets bupkis.





The whole "fraud on the court" thing is a rule whereby the Judge Advocate General can set aside findings or order a new trial based on newly discovered evidence that was not reasonably available at the time of trial (this invariably involves the recanted testimony of sexual assault victims, i.e., "I said my stepdad molested me because he wouldn't let me go to the mall" -- not to make light of it, but that happens with monotonous regularity, and sometimes the recantations appear genuine and sometimes they're the result of financial pressure, or whatever.) If the case is currently on appeal when the new evidence turns up, you still have to apply to the JAG for a new trial, but the JAG will refer it to the appellate court to consider along with the rest of the appeal. If the case is not on appeal (because of a subjurisdictional sentence, for example), the JAG will decide. You only have two years from the date of the convening authority's action to make the application to the JAG, and new trials are rarely (as in, never) granted.





If you got a punitive discharge, you'll get automatic appellate review. If you didn't get a punitive discharge, you might get administratively separated (and the rules here vary by service, but depending on how much time you have in, you may or may not get an administrative hearing). If you're put out administratively, either with or without a hearing, and new evidence comes to light, and the two years to apply to the JAG isn't up yet (which would be the rare case, IMO) I think the JAG would could set aside the findings and sentence, but I don't think the JAG can order a new triaI because there's no longer any personal jurisdiction. And I don't think the service can correct your record without an application Board for Correction of Military Records. So in a case like that, I would take the JAG's letter saying that the findings and sentence are set aside to the BCMR and ask to have my record corrected to remove the administrative separation. Then I'd be back in.





But you need to be careful what you ask for... The Hennis case is a good example... Soldier was charged with first degree murder in state court, convicted, sentenced to death. Conviction was overturned on appeal. Retried in state court and acquitted. He had been separated from the Army due to the original conviction. Army let him back in when the conviction was overturned (I don't know the specifics of how that happened). He continued with his Army career and eventually retired. Advancements in DNA testing permitted the government to prove that he was, in fact, the killer. State couldn't retry him because of double jeopardy, but the Army could because (a) the offense was committed at a time when he was subject to the UCMJ, (b) he was retired from the Army so he was still subject to the UCMJ, and (c) there's no double jeopardy because the state is a separate sovereign. He's now sitting on the military's death row (but he's likely to die of old age).





[edit]Edited for clarification[/edit]

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Postby SueDB » Fri Jul 26, 2013 12:18 pm

For an example, there were the first wave of urine tests in the 80's where the lab erred. I personally know several senior NCOs who were booted out for drug use. Since the results ended up after investigations etc. being bogus - the service let them back in and a couple of my friends who were eligible for promotion etc and were awarded backdated promotions. One guy had enough time accrued that when they brought him back in, they turned around and granted his 20 year retirement request.It all depends on where the error was made.[edit]One thing in these guy's favor....the expected positives as a group of senior folks for mj was much higher than predicted etc. which does tend to help an investigation on the defendant's side.[/edit]
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Postby PatGund » Fri Jul 26, 2013 12:40 pm

Fitzpatrick's problem isn't just the court-martial. Though I will note that while Fitzpatrick was "beached" following his court-martial (which was later downgraded to simple negligence), he was still allowed to remain in service until he was retired following his being passed up for promotion a third time. I have a strong belief that the only reason he was allowed that much was he was a USNA graduate. No, it's his actions SINCE the court-martial. Before he was retired, he racked up three domestic violence charges that his then-wife filed against him. AFTER he was retired, he racked up more domestic violence charges, an unlawful detainer conviction, threat charges, harassment charges, prowling, theft charges, violation of restraining orders, violation of anti-harassment orders, threats against a congressional staffer, criminal trespass, more domestic violence and credit card fraud.Then there was his short-lived time as a commissioner for the Port of Tracyton, where he tried to take over and dissolve the Port of Tracyton and was removed from office by county commissioners.And that was all when he still lived here in Washington State.Walter Fitzpatrick has done an amazing job of trashing his father's name all by himself.

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Postby Maybenaut » Fri Jul 26, 2013 12:47 pm

For an example, there were the first wave of urine tests in the 80's where the lab erred. I personally know several senior NCOs who were booted out for drug use. Since the results ended up after investigations etc. being bogus - the service let them back in and a couple of my friends who were eligible for promotion etc and were awarded backdated promotions. One guy had enough time accrued that when they brought him back in, they turned around and granted his 20 year retirement request.It all depends on where the error was made.[edit]One thing in these guy's favor....the expected positives as a group of senior folks for mj was much higher than predicted etc. which does tend to help an investigation on the defendant's side.[/edit]

Funny you should mention that. That's been a source of urban legend in the military ever since. After the problems with the lab came to light, they went through the records and upgraded a bunch of discharges. Now the intel on the mess deck is that if you get an Other Than Honorable or a General, it'll automatically be upgraded (within six months, within a year, whatever the most current rumor is). But it's not true.

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Postby ZekeB » Fri Jul 26, 2013 1:01 pm

My brother was in the Navy during that time frame. He knew a 17 year CPO who was booted out due to a maryjane positive. I wonder what happened to him. Even an upgraded discharge does not completely fix the problem.

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Postby Foggy » Fri Jul 26, 2013 1:07 pm

Walter Fitzpatrick has done an amazing job of trashing his father's name all by himself.

... and in 23 years, he hasn't moved on with his life one tiny iota. If he's so concerned about daddy's name, perhaps he could have done, y'know, just a tiny amount of work to become a productive citizen of this great nation. He's not unintelligent, or how'd he get into the USNA in the first place? In 23 years, he could have accomplished so much, if he hadn't wasted all that time obsessing and focusing on anger and spite and total, utter bullshit. Now those years are gone, and what does he have to show for them?[imgwidth=300]http://i519.photobucket.com/albums/u358/zczc3185/fitzpatrick_mugshot_20101027.jpg[/imgwidth]His dad woulda been so proud!!

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Walter Fitzpatrick

Postby Northland10 » Fri Jul 26, 2013 1:20 pm

Walter Fitzpatrick has done an amazing job of trashing his father's name all by himself.

... and in 23 years, he hasn't moved on with his life one tiny iota. If he's so concerned about daddy's name, perhaps he could have done, y'know, just a tiny amount of work to become a productive citizen of this great nation. He's not unintelligent, or how'd he get into the USNA in the first place? In 23 years, he could have accomplished so much, if he hadn't wasted all that time obsessing and focusing on anger and spite and total, utter bullshit. Now those years are gone, and what does he have to show for them?[imgwidth=300]http://i519.photobucket.com/albums/u358/zczc3185/fitzpatrick_mugshot_20101027.jpg[/imgwidth]His dad woulda been so proud!!

Walt needs to remember the teachings of Sun Tzu and Kenny Rogers.

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Postby SueDB » Fri Jul 26, 2013 1:41 pm

For an example, there were the first wave of urine tests in the 80's where the lab erred. I personally know several senior NCOs who were booted out for drug use. Since the results ended up after investigations etc. being bogus - the service let them back in and a couple of my friends who were eligible for promotion etc and were awarded backdated promotions. One guy had enough time accrued that when they brought him back in, they turned around and granted his 20 year retirement request.It all depends on where the error was made.[edit]One thing in these guy's favor....the expected positives as a group of senior folks for mj was much higher than predicted etc. which does tend to help an investigation on the defendant's side.[/edit]

Funny you should mention that. That's been a source of urban legend in the military ever since. After the problems with the lab came to light, they went through the records and upgraded a bunch of discharges. Now the intel on the mess deck is that if you get an Other Than Honorable or a General, it'll automatically be upgraded (within six months, within a year, whatever the most current rumor is). But it's not true.

AFAIK, you have to ask to have anything upgraded. Good InfoOnce the lab mess was sorted out. It was "curtins". [offtopic]I just kinda looked at it like the officers who didn't make the promotion list (passed over), put out, then enlist & finish out their 20 as enlisted. My 1st FIL was a Captain (got caught in the RIF) when I met him, an E-6 a year later (then promoted to E-7), was promoted on the reserve list to Major, and at his Retirement Ceremony, he retired not as Sergeant First Class, FIL, but Major FIL[/offtopic]
"Scientific Research: A whole lotta tedious attention to detail followed
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Walter Fitzpatrick

Postby Sterngard Friegen » Fri Jul 26, 2013 2:22 pm

You got to know when to hold 'em, know when to fold 'em,Know when to walk away and know when to run.You never count your money when you're sittin' at the table.There'll be time enough for countin' when the dealin's done.


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Walter Fitzpatrick

Postby Slartibartfast » Fri Jul 26, 2013 3:52 pm

Walt needs to remember the teachings of Sun Tzu and Kenny Rogers.

Which Kenny Rogers? The singer or the pitcher? If it's the pitcher, the teaching is: "Don't pitch for a New York baseball team."

I thought he was famous for saying “Strategy without tactics is the slowest route to victory. Tactics without strategy is the noise before defeat. To be without both is the road to birtherstan.” Or was that Thomas Jefferson?:sterngard: ,As a poker player, I believe in knowing how many chips you have in front of you at all times. :mrgreen:

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Postby Slartibartfast » Fri Jul 26, 2013 4:45 pm




Sounds more like Sun Tzu. The Kenny Rogers I'm familiar with threw a perfect game for the Texas Rangers in 1994, and hosed up his service as a Yankee in 1996 and as a Met in 1999. He put the Yankees behind in the game that Jim Leyritz won in 1996, and gave up the fatal triple and bases-loaded walk in the 1999 playoffs, while Rickey Henderson and Bobby Bonilla were playing cards in the clubhouse, to lose the NLCS to Atlanta.

Naw, I'm sure it was Kenny Rogers quoting Thomas Jefferson after pitching his perfect game. Especially the part about the birthers. ;)








[sekrit]Yes, the quote in question (minus the part about the birthers) is one of my favorites from The Art of War.[/sekrit]

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Walter Fitzpatrick

Postby Johnny Foreigner » Fri Jul 26, 2013 4:57 pm

Fitzpatrick describes his father, Walter Francis Fitzpatrick, Jr., who was a Navy medical doctor during World War II, as “a war hero.” [highlight]He participated in Operation Torch on November 8, 1942, which was deemed “a suicide mission.”[/highlight] For his father’s sake, Fitzpatrick has said, “I want my name back.”

Actually, no.I'm sure Kiwiwriter can add much more here, but as far as I'm aware, the Allies were expecting it to be pretty straight forward, and were hoping that the French troops under the command of the Vichy government would be more welcoming than belligerent. Walt lies again.

Wow....well, ask and ye shall receive.First off, Fitzpatrick's father was not on trial, and he's dead, so getting back his father's name is not an issue.Torch was absolutely NOT a "suicide mission." Difficult, yes, life-consuming, yes, but not a "suicide mission."(..........)The American forces took casualties in "Torch," fought reasonably well for an inexperienced force against weak opposition, and took their objectives. It got the Allies started on the road to victory in North Africa and the Mediterranean, and trained them on amphibious warfare. The names of Patton, Lucian Truscott, Ernie Harmon, Terry Allen, and Lloyd Fredendall began there. It was difficult, costly, and sometimes amateurish........But it was not a "suicide mission.""Operation Torch" by William Breuer and "An Army At Dawn" by Rick Atkinson cover the North African invasion pretty well. So does the US official history, by George Howe: "The US Army in Northwest Africa," I think it's called. I have it at home.Jeez. Talk about hyperbole.

[offtopic]Thought as much. Not Operation Certain Death. My dad was part of Operation Torch, and the way he told it, the British were expecting very little fighting at all, and the biggest problem was dealing with all of the hawkers with their dirty pictures, figs, nuts and promises of encounters with beautiful ladies who were very cheap and very clean.[/offtopic]

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Postby SueDB » Fri Jul 26, 2013 5:14 pm

Offtopic : Thought as much. Not Operation Certain Death. My dad was part of Operation Torch, and the way he told it, the British were expecting very little fighting at all, and the biggest problem was dealing with all of the hawkers with their dirty pictures, figs, nuts and promises of encounters with beautiful ladies who were very cheap and very clean.

;;) ;;) ;;) Hey GI!! North Africa loveyou boom-boom long time - short time GI!!! :flirty: :flirty: :flirty: :girlbutt: :girlbutt: :girlbutt:
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Postby Suranis » Mon Jul 29, 2013 3:20 am

I thought Patton didn't take command of Large scale American forces till the middle of the Africa Campaign. I guess I have to re read my WW2 history. I've always been more interested in WW1, which I don't really understand myself tbh.
Have you tried the Internet? It's made out of millions of people missing the point of everything and then getting angry about it.

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Postby mimi » Fri Sep 06, 2013 10:09 am

U.S. Navy & Marines, NCIS Colluded to Obscure Crime of Forgery





Posted By Sharon Rondeau On Thursday, September 5, 2013 @ 2:38 PM In National | 1 Comment





(Sep. 5, 2013) — It was sixteen years ago this day when I walked into Rear Admiral John Hutson’s Pentagon office (Navy TJAG #36).

[/break1]thepostemail.com/2013/09/05/u-s-navy-marines-ncis-colluded-to-obscure-crime-of-forgery/print]http://www.thepostemail.com/2013/09/05/ ... gery/print








Happy Anniversary, Walt!





:lol:

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Postby Reality Check » Fri Sep 06, 2013 10:19 am

It sucks to be Walt. [-X
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Walter Fitzpatrick

Postby TexasFilly » Fri Sep 06, 2013 11:14 am

I still remember.Just me from the bleachers, still persisting, still persevering.Beware the fury of a patient man.!

:-({|=

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Postby ZekeB » Fri Sep 06, 2013 11:17 am

Happy Anniversary, Walt! :lol:

Yeah mimi. You'd think something like "late December back in '63" would be more memorable. :lol:


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