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Postby magdalen77 » Fri Jul 26, 2013 11:15 am

Geez, thanks a lot, Zeke, for throwing me under the bus. What a pal \ :D /

Sorry 'bout that, magdalen. I don't want kimba to kinda not like me. After all, it's my turn to buy the next time I'm in her neighborhood.. I hate passing up a free lunch.

Okay, it's my birfday. I'm gonna be magnanimous and forgive you. But don't do it again. :lol:

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Postby magdalen77 » Fri Jul 26, 2013 11:17 am

This image is making the Facebook rounds... [imgwidth=300]https://fbcdn-sphotos-c-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-ash3/q71/1005646_669229796424542_1318556399_n.jpg[/imgwidth]I've noticed that my right wing relatives/friends give a hearty "Yeah!" and "Damn straight" and "kids are punks these days" and "If you try to teach your children to be respectful the government gets involved," while the left wing relatives/friends/FBers are more... nuanced. "Respect is learned from the environment in which it is cultivated. " "Isn't there something a little less serious than killing them that can be done?"My personal favorite: "I love how people act as if kids weren't punks when we were kids. 'Cause I don't know about the kids you hung around with, but the kids in my neighborhood were punks." And the subtly erudite: "My name is Socrates, and I approve this message."

If I'd have said it, it would be more like ...then I'd be spitting out teeth. My mom wouldn't have actually killed me for disrespect.

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Postby ZekeB » Fri Jul 26, 2013 12:08 pm

A fist to the mouth does not teach respect. Respect is something that has to be "built in" as a part of a child's upbringing.

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Postby SueDB » Fri Jul 26, 2013 12:09 pm

Respect is earned by your actions. I have never seen it work any other way in 58 years.
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Postby BFB » Fri Jul 26, 2013 12:12 pm

My parents never popped me if I showed them any disrespect. They just looked hurt, which was worse.

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Postby ducktape » Fri Jul 26, 2013 12:40 pm

I can't remember ever showing either of my parents disrespect. My mom might, but I can't, and it was certainly rare if I (or any of my sibs) did.On the other hand, my great-grandmother and I did not like each other from the day I was born (she had had all the attention before I came along). I can remember when I was maybe four and she said that she was going to tell my mom that I was being "saucy." I told her that the word was "sassy" and flounced off.

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Postby esseff44 » Fri Jul 26, 2013 12:51 pm

I can't remember ever showing either of my parents disrespect. My mom might, but I can't, and it was certainly rare if I (or any of my sibs) did.On the other hand, my great-grandmother and I did not like each other from the day I was born (she had had all the attention before I came along). I can remember when I was maybe four and she said that she was going to tell my mom that I was being "saucy." I told her that the word was "sassy" and flounced off.

:lol: :lol: :lol: We did not have a lot of exposure to people using disrespectful language. We were not bombarded by disrespectful language on radio and TV 24/7 as kids are now. Adults did not use disrespectful language to each other or the children. I never heard either of may parents, not one of my grandparents or other relatives use disrespectful language or 'cuss' words no matter how angry they were. It is something I still cannot get used to and it still hurts my ears. I do not feel deprived or stunted by not having been exposed to that kind of disrespect, bad language and bad manners.

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Postby magdalen77 » Fri Jul 26, 2013 1:03 pm

I can't remember ever showing either of my parents disrespect. My mom might, but I can't, and it was certainly rare if I (or any of my sibs) did.On the other hand, my great-grandmother and I did not like each other from the day I was born (she had had all the attention before I came along). I can remember when I was maybe four and she said that she was going to tell my mom that I was being "saucy." I told her that the word was "sassy" and flounced off.

:lol: :lol: :lol: We did not have a lot of exposure to people using disrespectful language. We were not bombarded by disrespectful language on radio and TV 24/7 as kids are now. Adults did not use disrespectful language to each other or the children. I never heard either of may parents, not one of my grandparents or other relatives use disrespectful language or 'cuss' words no matter how angry they were. It is something I still cannot get used to and it still hurts my ears. I do not feel deprived or stunted by not having been exposed to that kind of disrespect, bad language and bad manners.

Yeah, I never remember my parents talking to each other with the disrespect that married couples routinely show each other on TV. Even couples who are portrayed as being a perfect match spend a lot of time slinging putdowns at each other. It's played for a laugh, but it's not actually funny to have your nearest and dearest putting you down.

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Postby listeme » Fri Jul 26, 2013 1:08 pm

Re: earning respect:I have never considered being disrespectful the opposite of respecting someone. One is a behavior and the other is an emotion. I may be splitting hairs here, but it always bugs me when folks say "respect has to be earned!" Well, sure. But whether you respect a person or not shouldn't be what makes you decide to ACT respectful. :oldlady:
Say what you mean.

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Postby TollandRCR » Fri Jul 26, 2013 1:11 pm

I have just finished The Great Santini by Pat Conroy. It is largely based upon his own experience growing up as a child of a Marine fighter pilot and is set in 1962 in South Carolina and Atlanta. Although most of us may have been fortunate enough to grow up in a home in which neither verbal nor physical abuse was practiced, that was not the experience of "Ben," the oldest child, son of "Bull Meecham."





At the end, Ben says that he loved his father. [link]Pat Conroy said in his eulogy of Donald Conroy,http://www.skygod.com/quotes/greatsantini.html[/link]


Some of you may have heard that I had some serious reservations about my father's child-rearing practices. When The Great Santini came out, the book roared through my family like a nuclear device. My father hated it; my grandparents hated it; my aunts and uncles hated it; my cousins who adore my father thought I was a psychopath for writing it; and rumor has it that my mother gave it to the judge in her divorce case and said, "It's all there. Everything you need to know."





What changed my father's mind was when Hollywood entered the picture and wanted to make a movie of it. This is when my father said, "What a shame John Wayne is dead. Now there was a man. Only he could've gotten my incredible virility across to the American people."





Orion Pictures did me a favor and sent my father a telegram; "Dear Col. Conroy: We have selected the actor to play you in the coming film. He wants to come to Atlanta to interview you. His name is Truman Capote."





But my father took well to Hollywood and its Byzantine, unspeakable ways. When his movie came out, he began reading Variety on a daily basis. He called the movie a classic the first month of its existence. He claimed that he had a place in the history of film. In February of the following year, he burst into my apartment in Atlanta, as excited as I have ever seen him, and screamed, "Son, you and I were nominated for Academy Awards last night. Your mother didn't get squat".

Respect for the man and his accomplishments I can understand. Love of the man Bull Meecham or Donald Conroy, I cannot understand. However, I know that abused kids often (or usually) love the parent who abuses them. I find that very sad.

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Postby ducktape » Fri Jul 26, 2013 1:41 pm

Re: earning respect:I have never considered being disrespectful the opposite of respecting someone. One is a behavior and the other is an emotion. I may be splitting hairs here, but it always bugs me when folks say "respect has to be earned!" Well, sure. But whether you respect a person or not shouldn't be what makes you decide to ACT respectful. :oldlady:

Exactly. I said "yes sir" to my dad to the day he died. I say "yes ma'am" to my mom sometimes, but that's really shorthand for "I heard you, mom, but I really am all grown up now," and she knows it. I held the door for people, especially older or less active people, and I still do. I was taught to stand when a guest or an older adult entered the room and it's so ingrained that I still do it, even today, and then discover that the "senior" I'm standing for is younger than I am, lol. If I don't know them, I may not know whether or not I would respect them. But I can treat them respectfully, and also is a way you demonstrate your own self-respect.In my family, we didn't shout at each other or put each other down, and adults never fought in public. I will not work for someone who thinks that shouting at or putting down their staff or co-workers is appropriate behavior, nor will I have them working for me. I actually fired an otherwise good engineer who could not be brought to understand that having temper tantrums was inappropriate in a professional. He used the excuse that that was the way his whole family was, and that because I was a Southerner, I was forcing "Southern behavior" on him unfairly. Well, he may have had that happen when he was a kid, but I wanted adults who could modify their behavior working for me.But it was indeed very much a Southern thing, I'll grant you. When I was sixteen, I was working as a waitress at the local restaurant during the summer and a little girl came in with a quarter clutched in her hand. She put it on the counter and said, "can I have some ice cream?""You sure can," I replied. "We have chocolate, vanilla, strawberry, and butter pecan.""Yes," she said. "Yes what?" I asked."YES MA'AM!"

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Postby SueDB » Fri Jul 26, 2013 1:45 pm

Sometimes you have to go so far as to explain you have to respect the uniform etc - the authority, but you don't have to respect the person.I still say it is earned. You can program your kids to be polite, but that has nothing to do with respect.
You can follow the action, which gets you good pictures.
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Postby SueDB » Fri Jul 26, 2013 1:45 pm

Sometimes you have to go so far as to explain you have to respect the uniform etc - the authority, but you don't have to respect the person.I still say it is earned. You can program your kids to be polite, but that has nothing to do with respect.

You can follow the action, which gets you good pictures.
You can follow your instincts, which'll probably get you in trouble.
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Postby Addie » Fri Jul 26, 2013 1:53 pm

I was taught in an actual comportment class in the fourth grade in a NYC public elementary school to hold doors open for people behind me and keep to the right on the sidewalk. I do these simple things to this day. We had one period a week devoted to how not to behave like an asshole in public. My mother was taught the same in the same school. She was a stickler for good manners at home, so we all grew up with them. I may have mentioned before that I was taught in the same fourth grade class how to fold The New York Times into quarters, so my elbows wouldn't jab the person next to me. It was extremely optimistic to think anyone from my neighborhood would grow up to read the Times, but that didn't stop them from teaching the correct way to do it on the subway. I've always appreciated these life lessons from Mrs. Golden.
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Postby listeme » Fri Jul 26, 2013 1:54 pm

I didn't say respect wasn't earned.

when folks say "respect has to be earned!" Well, sure.

I didn't "program" my kids to do anything. I taught them things; I modeled kind and decent behavior; I explained why I was nice to a grouchy person. And so on.
Say what you mean.

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Postby SueDB » Fri Jul 26, 2013 1:55 pm

I was taught in an actual comportment class in the fourth grade in a NYC public elementary school to hold doors open for people behind me and keep to the right on the sidewalk. I do these simple things to this day. We had one period a week devoted to how not to behave like an asshole in public. My mother was taught the same in the same school. She was a stickler for good manners at home, so we all grew up with them. I may have mentioned before that I was taught in the same fourth grade class how to fold The New York Times into quarters, so my elbows wouldn't jab the person next to me. It was extremely optimistic to think anyone from my neighborhood would grow up to read the Times, but that didn't stop them from teaching the correct way to do it on the subway. I've always appreciated these life lessons from Mrs. Golden.



I display manners regardless of whether I respect the so and so or not.
You can follow the action, which gets you good pictures.
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Postby magdalen77 » Fri Jul 26, 2013 2:00 pm

Re: earning respect:I have never considered being disrespectful the opposite of respecting someone. One is a behavior and the other is an emotion. I may be splitting hairs here, but it always bugs me when folks say "respect has to be earned!" Well, sure. But whether you respect a person or not shouldn't be what makes you decide to ACT respectful. :oldlady:

Exactly. I said "yes sir" to my dad to the day he died. I say "yes ma'am" to my mom sometimes, but that's really shorthand for "I heard you, mom, but I really am all grown up now," and she knows it. I held the door for people, especially older or less active people, and I still do. I was taught to stand when a guest or an older adult entered the room and it's so ingrained that I still do it, even today, and then discover that the "senior" I'm standing for is younger than I am, lol. If I don't know them, I may not know whether or not I would respect them. But I can treat them respectfully, and also is a way you demonstrate your own self-respect.In my family, we didn't shout at each other or put each other down, and adults never fought in public. I will not work for someone who thinks that shouting at or putting down their staff or co-workers is appropriate behavior, nor will I have them working for me. I actually fired an otherwise good engineer who could not be brought to understand that having temper tantrums was inappropriate in a professional. He used the excuse that that was the way his whole family was, and that because I was a Southerner, I was forcing "Southern behavior" on him unfairly. Well, he may have had that happen when he was a kid, but I wanted adults who could modify their behavior working for me.But it was indeed very much a Southern thing, I'll grant you. When I was sixteen, I was working as a waitress at the local restaurant during the summer and a little girl came in with a quarter clutched in her hand. She put it on the counter and said, "can I have some ice cream?""You sure can," I replied. "We have chocolate, vanilla, strawberry, and butter pecan.""Yes," she said. "Yes what?" I asked."YES MA'AM!"

My mom was a yeller, but I never remember her yelling at dad and neither of them said cuss words to each other or us kids. When mommy and daddy wanted to "have words' they went to their room and shut the door.As an adult and even when I worked in a factory I have told people that they needed to moderate their language around me. And they did. People do know how to act right, it's just that they've gotten away with bad behavior for so long it's gotten to be a habit. It might be harder for a man to tell other men to moderate their language though.

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Postby TollandRCR » Fri Jul 26, 2013 2:05 pm

Some of the behavior towards employees described above would be a cause for employer discipline, if not for a "hostile workplace" complaint or suit. The only time that it is appropriate to yell at an employee is when a piano is about to fall on his or her head.

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Postby SueDB » Fri Jul 26, 2013 3:04 pm

[/break1]nwcn.com/news/217101791.html]Anyone taking a knife to the gun fight??





Man arrested trying to rob gun store with bat





BEAVERTON, Ore. – A man who tried to rob a gun store with a baseball bat was arrested Thursday after the store manager came out armed and ordered him on the ground, deputies said.





It all started at around 4 p.m. at the Discount Guns at 8118 Beaverton Hillsdale Highway when 22-year-old Derrick Mosley came into the store with a baseball bat and smashed a display case, said Sgt. Bob Ray with the Washington County Sheriff’s office.





Mosley then took a gun out of the sm...

You can follow the action, which gets you good pictures.
You can follow your instincts, which'll probably get you in trouble.
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Postby ZekeB » Fri Jul 26, 2013 3:20 pm

However you are not permitted to shoot someone in Oregon merely to save your property. You can only shoot for reasons of self defense.





[/break1]nwcn.com/news/217101791.html]Anyone taking a knife to the gun fight??





Man arrested trying to rob gun store with bat





BEAVERTON, Ore. – A man who tried to rob a gun store with a baseball bat was arrested Thursday after the store manager came out armed and ordered him on the ground, deputies said.





It all started at around 4 p.m. at the Discount Guns at 8118 Beaverton Hillsdale Highway when 22-year-old Derrick Mosley came into the store with a baseball bat and smashed a display case, said Sgt. Bob Ray with the Washington County Sheriff’s office.





Mosley then took a gun out of the sm...


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Postby verbalobe » Fri Jul 26, 2013 3:38 pm

Re: punk kids these days:When I was in high school I visited the home of a friend (not a close friend) in the middle of the day. This was unusual in itself, to leave the school campus, but I don't remember what hijinks we were up to. His mom was home. We entered the kitchen, and this 17 yr old guy started ordering his own mom around, extremely abusively. The F-word. "Bitch." To her face. "Make us sandwiches."I had never experienced ANYTHING like this, sheltered child that I was, and absolutely didn't know what to make of it. In fact, I still don't.But that was back in 1973. The good old days. I'm sure kids today are REALLY bad. :roll:

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Postby magdalen77 » Fri Jul 26, 2013 3:39 pm

From the Lebanon Daily News 7/22/2013"AMBRIDGE, Pa.—A man who tried to rob a convenience store with a BB-pistol instead encountered a clerk with a real gun who forced the suspect out of the store and literally kicked him in the rear, police said. "The clerk remained very calm, leaned over, and he also had a handgun that was underneath the counter," interim Ambridge police Chief James Mann said. "And he pulled his handgun on the perpetrator. The clerk had every justification to actually shoot the individual." Instead, store surveillance shows the clerk, whose name hasn't been released, chasing the suspect, James Hayes, 42, into the corner of the store and then giving him a swift kick in the behind as Hayes goes out the door. The incident happened about 3:45 p.m. Saturday at Moh's Market, about 25 miles northwest of Pittsburgh. Police caught Hayes a short time later when a woman yelled that a man with a gun had just run into her apartment. They also recognized Hayes from the surveillance video because he had come to the police station hours earlier in connection with an unrelated hit-and-run accident. Hayes, also of Ambridge, answered WTAE-TV's questions about the incident at the convenience store with his own questions when he was led, handcuffed, from the police station on Saturday, saying, "What? What are you talking about?" The clerk wasn't hurt and actually finished his shift at the store. Online court records don't list an attorney for Hayes who remained jailed." Ambridge is a few miles northwest of Pittsburgh. The cop told the thief that the clerk would have been within his rights to shot him. Unfortunately, we have the "Castle" doctrine in PA which (I've been told) is similar to "Stand Your Ground". Fortunately, the clerk wasn't a deluded John Wayne wannabe and contented himself with kicking the guy in the butt.

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Postby TollandRCR » Fri Jul 26, 2013 5:13 pm

There has been much discussion about whether a "fail-safe device" failed as the Spanish train was approaching the Santiago train station. This is not from the railroad but instead from a person who should be knowledgable:Reuters July 26, 2013 [link]Was 'recklessness' to blame for Spanish train crash?,http://www.reuters.com/article/2013/07/26/us-spain-train-safety-idUSBRE96P0M420130726[/link]

On slower lines, trains operate under an older system called ASFA, a Spanish acronym for Signal Announcement and Automatic Braking, which warns the driver if a train is moving too fast but does not automatically slow it down.At the site of the disaster, just 3 km (2 miles) before reaching the Santiago de Compostela station, the train was passing through an urban area on a steep curve. At that point of the track, two railway experts said, it uses the older ASFA safety system.Professor Roger Kemp, a Fellow of the Royal Academy of Engineering in Britain, said in an e-mailed comment that as the driver was leaving the high-speed line to join a much slower route before entering the station, there must have been at least prominent visual warnings to reduce speed, if not audible warnings and an electronic speed supervision system.A source close to ADIF said the safety system was apparently working correctly and a train had passed an hour earlier with no problems.

Another article noted that the driver should have been slowing the train for arrival at the station even if the track had been designed for high-speed travel.

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Postby Foggy » Fri Jul 26, 2013 6:28 pm

If you like to go fast, going fast around a curve is even more fun.Until suddenly it isn't any fun at all.
"The only thing more dangerous than an idea is a belief. And by dangerous I don't mean thought-provoking. I mean: might get people killed." - Sarah Vowell

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Postby Sequoia32 » Fri Jul 26, 2013 8:19 pm

If you like to go fast, going fast around a curve is even more fun.Until suddenly it isn't any fun at all.

Yup.A guy in college at Sac State used to go down a cloverleaf off-ramp just a little faster each time. We thought it was great fun. Fortunately none of us got killed...
So far every case of Ebola in this country got it by helping people. So relax, Republicans, you're in the clear. - Tina Dupuy


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