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PostPosted: Fri Jun 29, 2012 5:36 pm 
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It takes some pretty big balls to say this, when the original ruling in their case basically said "Ankeny decided this, we find their reasoning persuasive, so we agree." Correct me if I'm wrong, but there wasn't any actual new reasoning in Malihi's decision as far as eligibility - and yet Irion spins this as the first ever ruling on this, when the ruling was a clear agreement with a previous ruling.
What Irion is saying is that Ankeny had no authority to rule on this constitutional matter. The Indiana appeals court dismissed Ankeny's claim based on lack of standing, therefore it had no authority to issue an opinion on the constitutional issue. It did anyway even though it was overreaching. The Georgia administrative court granted standing to Weldon and then issued a authoritative ruling based on the merits of his constitutionally based argument. That is the difference.

Van Irion has now filed his petition for certiorari with the U.S. Supreme Court. You can find it here: [link]http://libertylegalfoundation.org/wp-content/uploads/2010/03/Welden-Petition-for-Writ-of-Cert.pdf[/link] It will no doubt be denied, which means that Malihi's ruling will stand as the only ruling issued in a case where the plaintiff was granted standing by the court which addresses President Obama's eligibility.


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PostPosted: Sat Jun 30, 2012 9:49 pm 
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Van Irion says he has submitted his Georgia case to SCOTUS, although it is not on the docket yet. The petitioners are David Welden, Carl Swensson, and Kevin Powell. Obama is the only respondent. Irion and Mark Hatfield are both listed as attorneys for the petitioners. The pleading is available from the Liberty Legal Foundation website.


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PostPosted: Sat Jun 30, 2012 9:54 pm 
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Occupation: Amateur radio host trying to figure out how to lower myself to shameless begging and stupid petition filing. It might be a good way to make a living. ;)
Nice of Van Irion to include this footnote right up front:

Quote:
1 Hereinafter this Petition will refer to the respondent, President Obama, also known as Barack Hussein Obama Jr., Barack Obama II, and Barry Soetoro, as “candidate Obama.” This reference is not intended to be disrespectful to the office of the President or to the individual Barack Obama. It is used only to identify the individual, separate from the office, to note that candidate Obama has not yet been elected to the term of office at issue in the instant litigation, and to simplify communication for purposes of this Petition.


Nothing says "I am an idiot" like including a gratuitous smear on page 2. [-X

Edit: Edited to correct to Venn Diagram.

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PostPosted: Sat Jun 30, 2012 9:54 pm 
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Not as good as Orly Taitz's. :lol: She's got the clear winner here. But they'll both be denied at the same time.

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PostPosted: Sat Jun 30, 2012 10:22 pm 
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Now that Roberts has outed himself as a Constitution-hating, usurper-loving traitor, birfers probably won't get their hopes up too much for this case.


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PostPosted: Sun Jul 01, 2012 12:55 am 
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AnitaMaria wrote:
Van Irion says he has submitted his Georgia case to SCOTUS, although it is not on the docket yet. The petitioners are David Welden, Carl Swensson, and Kevin Powell and Obama is the only respondent. Irion and Mark Hatfield are both listed as attorneys for the petitioners. The pleading is available from the Liberty Legal Foundation website.

Thanks for posting this, AM.

I think this is probably the best Venn Aryan is capable of producing. Pitiful, that. It's so riddled with logical inconsistencies and outright lies that it's difficult to know where to begin.

Perhaps a good starting point is the highlighted point that President Obama is the only named respondent. Yet the bulk of argument does not focus on issues Mr. Obama is positioned to defend; on the contrary, it's largely directed at the Secretary of State's decision (adopting Malihi's dissing of the two-citizen-parent "theory"). Only in the narrow context of the appeal to the Superior Court on jurisdictional grounds does Mr. Obama have anything whatsoever to defend. And that is limited to the court's interpretation of the Georgia election statutes.

So, if this word salad is to be properly analyzed, Mr. Aryan's appeal is limited to the question of whether the Superior Court's analysis is constitutionally correct. This line doesn't get him within 40 miles of putting the two-citizen-parent "question" before the court. And even if it did, absent the SoS of Georgia as a party to the appeal, where's the remedy?

Sorry. I know I'm being dense. But IMO, even if Venn Aryan prevailed on virtually everything he's legitimately got in play, the best he could possible get is a remand to the Georgia Court with the instruction to alter its interpretation of the "right of association of political parties" and conduct further proceedings. But let's look at that issue:

Venn Aryan wrote:
The Georgia Superior Court dismissed an appeal by erroneously deciding that the Georgia statute under which the petitioners challenged candidate Obama’s eligibility, violated the Democratic Party’s right to freedom of association. The Superior Court ruled that the Georgia statute was, therefore, inapplicable to Presidential primary elections. This argument had been raised and rejected by the Georgia Office of Administrative Hearings and the Georgia Secretary of State.

:^o :^o Well no. If the guy weren't so palpably stupid, I'd call that a bald faced lie. Freedom of association entered into the analysis to be sure. But more importantly, the reversal was based on construction of the applicable Georgia statutes -- something that Venn Aryan disengenuously omits altogether.

Even Berg and Apuzzo are better than this. Hell, We the Purple might even be better than this.

Edit: Adding: BB's the one who does this best but allow me to give it a whack. Where are the citations and analysis supporting the contention that the court erred in applying a First Amendment right of association? I must have missed 'em. This is not a serious appellate filing. It's a bad joke.

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PostPosted: Sun Jul 01, 2012 6:47 am 
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labtech wrote:
Quote:
It takes some pretty big balls to say this, when the original ruling in their case basically said "Ankeny decided this, we find their reasoning persuasive, so we agree." Correct me if I'm wrong, but there wasn't any actual new reasoning in Malihi's decision as far as eligibility - and yet Irion spins this as the first ever ruling on this, when the ruling was a clear agreement with a previous ruling.
What Irion is saying is that Ankeny had no authority to rule on this constitutional matter. The Indiana appeals court dismissed Ankeny's claim based on lack of standing, therefore it had no authority to issue an opinion on the constitutional issue. It did anyway even though it was overreaching. The Georgia administrative court granted standing to Weldon and then issued a authoritative ruling based on the merits of his constitutionally based argument. That is the difference.

Van Irion has now filed his petition for certiorari with the U.S. Supreme Court. You can find it here: [link]http://libertylegalfoundation.org/wp-content/uploads/2010/03/Welden-Petition-for-Writ-of-Cert.pdf[/link] It will no doubt be denied, which means that Malihi's ruling will stand as the only ruling issued in a case where the plaintiff was granted standing by the court which addresses President Obama's eligibility.


Among many other problems with Irion's petition, he's wrong on your first point and flat out lyIng on the second.

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PostPosted: Tue Jul 03, 2012 7:00 am 
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While it's not only Welden...

SCOTUS Docket...

Quote:
No. 12-5
Title:

David P. Weldon, et al., Petitioners
v.
Barack H. Obama, President of the United States

Docketed: July 2, 2012
Lower Ct: Superior Court of Georgia, Fulton County
Case Nos.: (2012CV211527, 2012CV211528, 2012CV211537)
Decision Date: March 2, 2012
Discretionary Court
Decision Date: April 4, 2012

~~~Date~~~ ~~~~~~~Proceedings and Orders~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Jun 28 2012 Petition for a writ of certiorari filed. (Response due August 1, 2012)


~~Name~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ ~~~~~~~Address~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ ~~Phone~~~
Attorneys for Petitioners:
Van R. Irion
Liberty Legal Foundation (865) 809-1505
Counsel of Record
9040 Executive Park Drive
Suite 200
Knoxville, TN 37923
irionlaw@earthlink.net
Party name: David P. Weldon, et al.

Attorneys for Respondent:
Donald B. Verrilli Jr.
Solicitor General
(202) 514-2217
United States Department of Justice
950 Pennsylvania Avenue, N.W.
Washington, DC 20530-0001
SupremeCtBriefs@USDOJ.gov
Party name: Barack H. Obama, President of the United States

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PostPosted: Tue Jul 03, 2012 12:35 pm 
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realist wrote:
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Jun 28 2012 Petition for a writ of certiorari filed. (Response due August 1, 2012)


Is this just boilerplate, or does it mean that a response is specifically requested?

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PostPosted: Tue Jul 03, 2012 12:40 pm 
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MaineSkeptic wrote:
Is this just boilerplate, or does it mean that a response is specifically requested?

Just boilerplate. I believe that we have seen this with every case. Once the pool clerks finish laughing at it the Solicitor General will be notified that he can waive the right to respond.

Edit: It is probably notification by lack of notification. It is closer to what Loh said. If no response is requested the SG knows it will be denied.

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PostPosted: Tue Jul 03, 2012 12:40 pm 
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MaineSkeptic wrote:
realist wrote:
Quote:
Jun 28 2012 Petition for a writ of certiorari filed. (Response due August 1, 2012)


Is this just boilerplate, or does it mean that a response is specifically requested?


That is boilerplate. A response, should the respondent provide one, would be untimely if filed after that date. In all likelihood, the respondent will not bother filing a reply unless one is requested by the Court, which is highly unlikely.

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PostPosted: Tue Jul 03, 2012 12:42 pm 
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Cert. pet.:
Quote:
Ankeny was a challenge brought by pro-se litigants in Indiana against that state’s Governor. Id. at 679. While litigation by pro-se parties certainly does not, by itself, negate the value of an opinion, it certainly should raise some concerns. Most pro-se litigants cannot be expected to present courts with fully researched and briefed arguments in support of their constitutional assertions. Addtionally, the Defendant in Ankeny was a sitting Governor with all the resources of the state at his disposal. Id. This picture explains the very one-sided presentation of the issues and the ultimate result in Ankeny.

Much more striking, however, is the fact that the Ankeny Court admitted that the plaintiff lacked standing. Id. at 684. Since the plaintiff lacked standing, the Ankeny Court lacked jurisdiction to reach any substantive issue presented. Yet after
reaching this conclusive finding, the Ankeny court took it upon itself to construe Article II of the U.S. Constitution. While a court may use alternative means to reach a holding, it should not construe the U.S. Constitution to do so. Lyng v. Northwest Indian Cemetery Protective Association, 485 U.S. 439, 445-46 (1988) (“A fundamental and longstanding principle of judicial restraint requires that courts avoid reaching constitutional questions in advance of the necessity
of deciding them.”). Judicial restraint requires all courts to avoid construing any clause of the Constitution if avoiding such construction is at all possible. Id. By pushing forward to give its opinion on the meaning of Article II, after ruling that it lacked jurisdiction in the case, the Ankeny Court ignored judicial restraint, ignored rules of constitutional construction, ignored direct precedent from this Court, and ignored the Article III constitutional limits on its own authority.

In other words, the Ankeny Court’s decision to reach the constitutional question demonstrates that Court’s failure to understand the most basic doctrines applied by this Court when construing the Constitution. With this fact in mind, the Ankeny Court’s opinion regarding the meaning of Article II and the 14th Amendment should be avoided at all costs by any other court.

Yet the Georgia Administrative Court, Georgia Secretary of State, and other courts across the country are citing Ankeny as decisive on the natural born citizen issue.

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PostPosted: Tue Jul 03, 2012 12:55 pm 
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I construe his arguments to be without merit. I construe that he does not understand how to use the word 'construe.'

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PostPosted: Tue Jul 03, 2012 1:03 pm 
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Much more striking, however, is the fact that the Ankeny Court admitted that the plaintiff lacked standing. Id. at 684.

I just reread Ankeny, especially page 684.

No such ruling by the court.

[-X

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PostPosted: Tue Jul 03, 2012 4:14 pm 
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bob wrote:
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Much more striking, however, is the fact that the Ankeny Court admitted that the plaintiff lacked standing. Id. at 684.

I just reread Ankeny, especially page 684.

No such ruling by the court.

[-X

What? Are you suggesting that a birfer is just making $h1t up? Whodda thunk it! -xx

[Seriously though, thanks for rereading, bob. I was teetering on rereading Ankeny for the same reason. I trusts ya.]

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PostPosted: Tue Jul 03, 2012 4:25 pm 
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Piffle wrote:
bob wrote:
Quote:
Much more striking, however, is the fact that the Ankeny Court admitted that the plaintiff lacked standing. Id. at 684.

I just reread Ankeny, especially page 684.

No such ruling by the court.

[-X

What? Are you suggesting that a birfer is just making $h1t up? Whodda thunk it! -xx

[Seriously though, thanks for rereading, bob. I was teetering on rereading Ankeny for the same reason. I trusts ya.]

I hadn't recalled it running to that many pages. Gotta link for rikker? :lol:

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PostPosted: Tue Jul 03, 2012 4:49 pm 
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Plutodog wrote:
I hadn't recalled it running to that many pages. Gotta link for rikker? :lol:

Nb.: the opinion starts on page 678, so 684 is only six pages in.

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PostPosted: Tue Jul 03, 2012 5:39 pm 
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bob wrote:
Plutodog wrote:
I hadn't recalled it running to that many pages. Gotta link for rikker? :lol:

Nb.: the opinion starts on page 678, so 684 is only six pages in.

No, I don't mean to be obtuse but this ain't working for me. The two versions of the opinion I've seen run 19 pages and 9 pages (your link above). The nine page version starts off each page with what appears to be a 678 among the numbers embedded (and each page with the same heading).

916 N.E.2d 678, *; 2009 Ind. App. LEXIS 2436, **

Also page numbering 1-9 on the right top.

Here's Jack's link:
http://www.scribd.com/doc/22488868/ANKE ... on=2337302

I haven't found any link with anything close to 600 pages or that has a page number 684 on it.

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PostPosted: Tue Jul 03, 2012 5:49 pm 
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Dawg... What is it you don't understand about the page numbering?

The 19-pager becomes 9 in the reporter, due to the font and double columns and begins on page 678.

Sorry if that doesn't help and I'm misunderstand you, but just sayin'.

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PostPosted: Tue Jul 03, 2012 6:01 pm 
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realist wrote:
Dawg... What is it you don't understand about the page numbering?

The 19-pager becomes 9 in the reporter, due to the font and double columns and begins on page 678.

Sorry if that doesn't help and I'm misunderstand you, but just sayin'.

Sorry, realist, the whole numbering system as I described it (as I am seeing it) confuses me. Whether dealing with 9 or 19 pages, (and maybe especially when they can change like that), how does one know for sure where page 684 would show up in a full version? Is there a 600+ page version anywhere? If not, could somebody tell me what part (page(s)) of the 9- or 19-page short versions incorporates the supposed page this birfer claims Ankeny court admits plaintiff lacks standing on (Id at 684)?

:oops:

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PostPosted: Tue Jul 03, 2012 6:08 pm 
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In the 9-page version (that I linked to), page 684 "starts" in the second column on page 4, and "ends" in the first column on page 5. (Look for "[*684].)

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PostPosted: Tue Jul 03, 2012 6:12 pm 
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bob wrote:
In the 9-page version (that I linked to), page 684 "starts" in the second column on page 4, and "ends" in the first column on page 5. (Look for "*684].)

Thanks bob. Sometimes I need a seeing eye dog. ?(

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PostPosted: Tue Jul 03, 2012 6:12 pm 
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He seems to equate "fails to state a claim upon which relief can be granted" with "lack of standing."

Is that correct?

(edit) I should say, is that true under the law? I'm pretty sure my inference about what he means is correct,


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PostPosted: Tue Jul 03, 2012 6:18 pm 
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That is my guess. Then the court goes on to explain why even if the court could grant relief their contention that a natural born citizen must have two parents is wrong. I must say I had never read this decision in detail. Judge Dreyer did an excellent job writing the opinion. I can see now why courts like to cite this one.

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PostPosted: Tue Jul 03, 2012 6:19 pm 
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The page 684 is the page of the reporter the opinion is in.

It is in volume 916 of the N.E. 2nd (reporter) at page 678.

That is what would have been cited, not Ankeny v Daniels IN Appeal Court page 1, or something like that. That is not where the case is "reported'.

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