Kreep is begging for money again, this time for Hawaii:

I snipped lots of noodly goodness (including Kreep's claim that he was able to raise all the money he needed for his Alabama case) to comply with 4-paragraph rule. See the rest here: http://grassroots.activehosted.com/inde ... 98e5135.72

If it materializes, this--like Alabama--will be a Dummett/Kreep production per Dummett's Facebook page, where he says this:


Maybe this will be the one that takes Obama down.

Or maybe not.

Yes, a very real chance. I mean, why would a Hawaii judge even consider taking judicial notice of statements by Hawaiian officials?

To be honest, if I was a birther I would recognise that any challange to Obamas eligibility could only be filed in Hawai'i. Everywhere else is covered by the Full faith and credit clause. But in HAWAII, they can chalange his documents directly, as its the Hawai'i DOH that certifying them.

The challanges in Hawai'i have been conspicous by their absence, concidering the obvousness of this little fact

I want to see more motions for vex lit out of Hawaii

Hawaii however has some problems: If a challenge is filed, then only if the challenge is upheld, will a circuit court have the opportunity to review. And since the original review is not a 'contested hearing' the venue for review is limited. AG Opinion 04-11 observes that the statute provides for no avenue for the objecting voter to appeal the decision or take the objection to a circuit court.

Hawaii will be an uphill battle.

Me, too. And Taitz's last few things to get the attention of the Hawai'i AG's office could do the trick.

To recap, she filed yet another preposterous motion to reconsider and she's purported to have named two Hawai'i officials in a ridiculous lawsuit in another state. And she continues to "serve" -- something -- on the AG's office in Hawai'i by apparently infected e-mail. She won't go away. She wants to be declared a vexatious litigant.

Hmmm ... maybe the only honorable way out .... "See, I'm victimized. I CAN'T do any more ... they've disbarred me and I'm not even allowed to file pro se"

However, a filing in a Hawaiian Court of an election challenge may at least provide Orly with a valid court order opportunity allowing her to inspect the birth certificate. However, the road to such a court order is not that simple and I doubt that Orly, or Kreep for that matter, have found a likely path. The Hawaiian Statutes provide for challenging the nomination but also restrict the court's ability to review the matters. I am not sure if there is another way to file suit in Hawaii in which a non frivolous claim can be made to determine if Obama is indeed born on Hawaiian soil. While Hawaii would be the most logical place for such a lawsuit, such a suit may not be likely to succeed based on earlier failures.

But with Kreep begging for money, perhaps we can see some entertainment soon.

IANL, but...

I would think that getting the opportunity to inspect anything via a ballot challenge in Hawaii would be more like a cliff face than an uphill battle. Assuming that they get a challenge heard, and the President presents a certified copy of either the LFBC or COLB, I'm not sure how they get access to anything beyond that document.

The LFBC and COLB, remember, are original documents:


They can screech "it's just a copy" all they want, but screeching something often enough does not make it true. The certified copies are original vital records. Full stop.

I would guess that the challengers would have the right to try to challenge the authenticity of that birth certificate, but at that point the burden will undoubtedly be on them. In the absence of any actual evidence that President Obama was not born in Hawaii, I don't see them given access to go into the vault and look at things - especially since HRS §338-18 (as we all know by now) gives them the opportunity to request verification from the Department of Health.

So far, no case has seen the certified documents in the court records. That of course would be the end of any future court case... The birthers are seeking a way to gain access to the vault copy or microfilms but with the certified copies and the certification by the DOH of Hawaii, I doubt that they stand any chance here.

This post has been heavily edited.

I wish Dummett the best of luck in his efforts to get on the ballot for the Presidential Primary here in Hawaii. I'm sure he will liven up an otherwise dead race.

I just finished looking at some of the election law statutes.

I'm not sure there is a way to challenge the placement of a candidate on the Presidential ballot.

The provision for the Presidential ballot falls under HRS §11-113(c)(1):


The key word in there has been highlighted for your convenience. As long as the sworn application is filed, the candidate is qualified for the ballot. Full stop. Just based on the statute, I don't see them having a non-frivolous case against the state as far as the general election is concerned.

The primary may be a different situation. I suspect that there might possibly be other small problems beyond the statutes when it comes to challenging the primary ballot here.

There are not presidential preference primaries in Hawaii.

HI Constitution




Hawaii does not conduct a presidential preference primary election.

Caucus results2012 Hawaii

Nomination papers can be challenged under HRS 12-8 but the chapter does not apply to presidential electors



HRS 12-8 is an unlikely statute under which to challenge a Presidential Nomination. There appear to be no statutes outlining how to challenge the nomination of a presidential candidate under HRS §11-113

That would be the other small problem I was talking about, yes.

Yes, small problem, nothing that cannot be solved by some creative complaints I am sure. Sanctions galore...

What is the cost of filing a challenge or suit in a HI court - assuming state court ?

"$11,600 within 96 hours" seems to be another "let's pull a big dollar amount out of our butts and then say THIS ONE WILL WORK But you gotta move FAST !" typical scam trolling for cash.
If they get strunked....they'll need more.

Kreep and Dummass could have a fun time for a week or so in Oahu with the leftover cash...assuming they are able to raise anywhere near that amount.
I wish there was a way to track the birfer bux better. Seeing the number of blatantly scammy fundraisers (with no real action resulting.....) and the way they have been scrambling for relatively small amounts of money, and the infighting, my gut feeling is the birthers and the scammers are close to being tapped out. There's no indication of any support from any RW billionaire sugardaddy and there's not much pocket change left in the retirees that the scammers have been bilking all along.

IF these 2 really do file any ballot challenge in HI, I hope the AG assigns Jill to be defense counsel. I like the professional manner with which she handled Orly's insanity.

As far as getting a certified copy of the BC's into court, wouldn't the plaintiffs first have to argue that state law requires identity papers to get on the ballot ? Their nationwide "case" seems to be based upon "WE duh Peeples don't care enough about state election laws to even read them before we file ballot challenges ! WE think papers ARE required, so Show us all the papers WE demand _{so we can declare that they are fraud} !"

I don't know why it would now when it never has before. She's been trying for MONTHS to force Hawai'i to give her access to the original certificate so that she and "her experts" can inspect it, but because she does not fit into any of the 13 categories of people who can legitimately gain access to someone's vital records (or the abstracts thereof,) she has been REPEATEDLY told that she cannot see it. I just don't think filing another permutation of an election challenge would make any difference--

--or am I missing something rather fundamental here? (I very well could be, so please let me know if I am!)

I don't know if nbc was being sarcastic or snarky or not, but no, you're not missing anything. Filing in HI does not give her or anyone else any better chance of obtaining access to the original vital records.

I agree with Realist.

Now if only poutine does.

No! Not Poutine!

Well, then I must disagree.
Of course the question is really what is:



Orly was having a hard time getting a subpoena for her discovery out of state which would be recognized in Hawaii. Having a filing inside of Hawaii would at least overcome this hurdle. Would Orly be more successful? I am not sure.

First her challenge would have to get to a discovery stage, then she'd have to get a subpoena issued, then win a motion to quash, then obtain a court order, then survive an appeal or two, all with having no tangible interest in obtaining the document.

Gotta disagree, nbc. The laws have not changed in that regard nor has election law changed.

Ain't. Gonna. Happen.

I agree with Realist.

I am Spartacus agree with realist.