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PostPosted: Sun Apr 15, 2012 1:24 pm 
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TollandRCR wrote:
Reuters April 14, 2012 Trayvon overshadowing other killings: NRA chief
Quote:
A top executive of the largest U.S. advocacy group for gun owners said on Saturday that media attention on the Trayvon Martin killing in Florida has unfairly overshadowed a daily stream of other killings in cities across the country.


So, the defense when attention is paid to when someone uses one of your products to murder someone is to point out that all the other cases of people murdering each other using your products are being overlooked?

I think this guy should rethink his PR line.

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PostPosted: Sun Apr 15, 2012 7:45 pm 
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A Legal Lohengrin wrote:
...I think this guy should rethink his PR line.

So do some members of the NRA.

"NRA Member Calls Wayne LaPierre ‘Over The Edge,’ Says Others ‘Think He’s A Wingnut’"



I'm not sure about his observation concerning dental schools. He must have really good teeth.

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PostPosted: Sun Apr 15, 2012 8:37 pm 
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TollandRCR wrote:
Reuters April 14, 2012 Trayvon overshadowing other killings: NRA chief
Quote:
A top executive of the largest U.S. advocacy group for gun owners said on Saturday that media attention on the Trayvon Martin killing in Florida has unfairly overshadowed a daily stream of other killings in cities across the country.[...]


Maybe he's correct.

Another "stand your ground" killing. This one in Arizona. A black man shot a mentally disabled white man from his car at a Taco Bell.

Is that what he's looking for?

The guy felt threatened. The dead guy had a pipe bat dogleash with his dog at the other end of it.


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PostPosted: Sun Apr 15, 2012 9:15 pm 
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TollandRCR wrote:
Reuters April 14, 2012 Trayvon overshadowing other killings: NRA chief
Quote:
...
At the NRA annual meeting on Saturday, the organization celebrated its success in passing the [Stand Your Ground] laws, showing a video to the membership of a young mother in Oklahoma, Sarah McKinley, who shot dead a knife-wielding home invader on New Year’s Eve.



Pure bullshit. Unadulterated bullshit. The woman was in her own home. She was barricaded in her home. She was protecting her children. She did not have a viable line of retreat. Her back was to the wall. She was on the phone with law enforcement. She was complying with instructions given to her. The assailant was obviously armed. The assailant was forcibly entering the home.

Her actions were clearly in self defense, and would be seen as self defense in any jurisdiction in the USA. SYG laws don't change the outcome in any way, shape, or form. This is pure NRA bullshit.

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PostPosted: Sun Apr 15, 2012 9:18 pm 
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Agreed. SYG laws are to protect freewheeling gun toters out in public -- pretty much like Zimmerman. But the SYG laws are being shown for what they are -- hunting licenses for human beings.

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PostPosted: Sun Apr 15, 2012 10:11 pm 
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Miami-Dade fire captain Brian Beckmann posted on his Facebook page:



The Facebook post has since been deleted but was captured in a message sent to TheGrio
Quote:
A Miami-Dade Fire Department spokesman issued the following statement:

Captain Brian Beckmann has been with Miami-Dade county since 1997. The post on his personal Facebook page is being investigated by Miami-Dade fire rescue. The department's only official Facebook page is: http://www.facebook.com/MiamiDadeFireRescue.

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PostPosted: Sun Apr 15, 2012 10:28 pm 
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We can always count on Larry Klayman and RenewAmerica to bring lies and hatred into a discussion.

The legal cesspool of the Martin case
Quote:
But the death of Trayvon Martin is not the only tragedy in this case. What we are witnessing is the death of justice and our legal system as a whole.

Sure, President Barack Hussein Obama — for his own political purposes to shore up his voting base for the 2012 elections — fanned the flames of racial tension and divide by endorsing Martin and deep sixing Zimmerman's account of the story. Proclaiming that if he had a son, he would "look like Trayvon," our white-hating lawyer president arrogantly and cleverly broadcast his verdict about the incident. Then, true to form, other white haters and black vigilante bigots like the degenerate Al Sharpton and Jesse Jackson (I refuse to call them "reverends") entered the fray, accusing the predominantly white police department and state prosecutor's office of attempting to let Zimmerman off scot-free when they did not immediately arrest him, but instead chose to be prudent and investigate first.

When there was no immediate arrest for some weeks as the state investigated and weighed the facts, the racist lawyer-in-chief Obama, through his equally racist black attorney general, Eric Holder, sicced the Civil Rights Division of the U.S. Justice Department on the state prosecutors and the police department, opening an investigation that could have potentially led, ironically, to the criminal indictment of these Florida officials if they did not arrest and criminally charge Zimmerman.
...
While this racist behavior was to be expected, what was even more disgusting to me — as a lawyer who believes that the profession should be noble and beyond political and other influences — was to witness the conduct of Zimmerman's own attorneys and the recent indictment of Zimmerman by a political hack and newly appointed state prosecutor to the case.

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PostPosted: Mon Apr 16, 2012 4:58 pm 
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They may or may not have been linked here, just FYI there are some documents at Jack's re this case which some may or may not have seen.

Trayvon Martin - George Zimmerman Documents

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PostPosted: Tue Apr 17, 2012 5:15 pm 
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Richard Land of the Southern Baptist Convention was quoted a few days ago criticizing black ministers for leading protests to get justice for Treyvon Martin. It turns out he was quoting other people without proper attribution.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/04/1 ... 31373.html

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PostPosted: Wed Apr 18, 2012 12:36 pm 
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A Legal Lohengrin wrote:
DrIrvingFinegarten wrote:
Forgive me if this was discussed earlier in the thread and I missed it, but some people I've talked to have said that when the dispatcher said "We don't need you to do that," it's not the same thing as telling Zimmerman to stay in his car or not follow Martin.
Is there an important distinction there or is it just splitting hairs?


It makes the situation more ambiguous, since the statement appears to leave Zimmerman at liberty to do it. I am not sure whether there is a law in Florida that one must obey a lawful order from a law enforcement officer, but even if so, "We don't need you to do that" would not seem to trigger such an obligation (even if a 911 dispatcher constitutes such an officer).

I believe Zimmerman's legal position is somewhat better because the dispatcher did not tell him unambiguously not to approach Martin.


He didn't call 911, he called the Sanford police department directly. I've called our police department after business hours, and the people who answered were officers. So we have no idea if he was speaking to an officer. (my guess would be he was)


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PostPosted: Wed Apr 18, 2012 8:14 pm 
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Interesting article.

Trayvon Martin and the right to be left alone

I just have never been able to answer a basic question: Why was Zimmerman bothering Martin to begin with?

For me, the Trayvon Martin case is about something that is fundamental to America: the ability to go out and take a walk or pick up some junk food without being hassled. I’m aware that “hassle” is a term straight out of 1973, and maybe that’s deliberate. When I was growing up in Maryland in the 1970s, my mom had a term for people in the neighborhood who made it their job to mind everything that went on there: the sidewalk superintendent.

Read more: http://dailycaller.com/2012/04/16/trayv ... z1sRNm4Cr7


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PostPosted: Wed Apr 18, 2012 8:26 pm 
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It is indeed and asks a really good question.

But it was too bad that he couldn't write it without a paragraph about evil liberals destroying the Constitution yadda yadda yadda Al Sharpton yadda yadda before he could sum up the reasoning on the important question. I suppose that was the required "look, I hate liberals as much as you do" so that he could say something that wasn't exactly down the Daily Caller line.

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PostPosted: Wed Apr 18, 2012 8:27 pm 
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Why was Zimmerman bothering Trayvon? Zimmerman is 'off' somehow. That much was clear from the call and from the fact he had called the police dozens of times recently. He appointed himself a vigilante and patrolled with a gun. Would he have approached Trayvon if he had not been armed? I doubt it.

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PostPosted: Wed Apr 18, 2012 8:51 pm 
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Zimmerman was stalking Martin because of melanin. Sadly, the old American story.

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PostPosted: Wed Apr 18, 2012 8:56 pm 
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esseff44 wrote:
Would he have approached Trayvon if he had not been armed? I doubt it.


Would he have approached Trayvon if he didn't have "stand your ground?"

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PostPosted: Wed Apr 18, 2012 9:09 pm 
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jtmunkus wrote:
esseff44 wrote:
Would he have approached Trayvon if he had not been armed? I doubt it.


Would he have approached Trayvon if he didn't have "stand your ground?"


Would he have approached Trayvon if he didn't have a gun whether or not he had stand 'SYG' ? If he had SYG but no gun, I don't think he would have approached. SYG just magnifies the problem and lets killers off the hook.

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PostPosted: Wed Apr 18, 2012 9:42 pm 
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esseff44 wrote:
jtmunkus wrote:
esseff44 wrote:
Would he have approached Trayvon if he had not been armed? I doubt it.


Would he have approached Trayvon if he didn't have "stand your ground?"


Would he have approached Trayvon if he didn't have a gun whether or not he had stand 'SYG' ? If he had SYG but no gun, I don't think he would have approached. SYG just magnifies the problem and lets killers off the hook.


Maybe this study can answer that. MY guess is : No. He wouldn't have.
http://www.wthr.com/story/17369273/study-gun-owners-more-likely-to-think-others-are-carrying

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PostPosted: Thu Apr 19, 2012 3:23 am 
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I hear alot of people talking about how the prosecution ain't got nothing on Zimmerman, how he will probably be let off the hook. I've spoke to some fairly liberal Floridians who get the feeling he'll be let off as well, and why not? OJ was let off.

I can tell you one thing, if Zimmerman is let off it will set a precedent for other court cases. You'll have another case with another dead unarmed man in a public street, and the murder could just simply claim 'defense' and insist his circumstances would be the same as Zimmermans, it is sickening that there is a strong possibility he'll be let off. Either way though I hope people respect the decision of the court, as much as it strikes my heart to see Zimmerman let go in that scenario.... we need to respect the legal system.

In anycase we'll just have to await the court case in May.

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PostPosted: Thu Apr 19, 2012 8:12 am 
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PostPosted: Fri Apr 20, 2012 1:06 pm 
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http://abcnews.go.com/US/george-zimmerm ... 5GWVNWiYor

Something about that photo bothers me ...

The photographer says he saw Martin's body "prostrate" on the ground, and powder burns were visible on Martin's hoodie. Martin was found face down, and allegedly shot in the chest. Also, this photo was taken 2 minutes after police responded, but there is no mention in the police report of another person on the scene.


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PostPosted: Fri Apr 20, 2012 6:30 pm 
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A question that has bugging me is, if Trayvon were straddling Zimmerman, that would have blocked Zimmerman from getting his gun unholstered. There are two witnesses who said they saw Zimmerman straddling Trayvon after the shot was fired.

The photo does not convince me of anything. The human scalp bleeds heavier than any other part of the body. I would expect see significant bleeding if the head hit a sidewalk in the initial tussle. Entrance and exit wound from Trayvon. The forensics tell the story and hopefully the FBI is handling that and not the local county yahoos.


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PostPosted: Fri Apr 20, 2012 8:31 pm 
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As a part of his apology when on the stand, Zimmerman says he didn't know how young TM was. He says he thought that TM was just a bit younger than Zimmerman. That's a direct contradiction of what he says in the call to the police when he describes TM as being in his late teens.

Also, it's hard to believe that whoever took the photo of the back of GZ's head did not take many other photos of the scene.

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PostPosted: Fri Apr 20, 2012 8:46 pm 
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esseff44 wrote:
As a part of his apology when on the stand, Zimmerman says he didn't know how young TM was. He says he thought that TM was just a bit younger than Zimmerman. That's a direct contradiction of what he says in the call to the police when he describes TM as being in his late teens.

I suspect we're going to see more pics from that phonecam.

esseff44 wrote:
Also, it's hard to believe that whoever took the photo of the back of GZ's head did not take many other photos of the scene.

Possibly, his earlier phone description was a guess from a distance whilst his in-court memory was from much closer to the dead or soon-to-be-dead Trayvon. :cry:

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PostPosted: Fri Apr 20, 2012 11:54 pm 
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"I am sorry for the loss of your son"

Really George? You're sorry that Trayvon's parents have lost a son? Are you actually sorry for what you did to their son? I'm sorry it's just, I didn't hear you actually apologize for your actions. Are you sorry because the media is around?

I hope you have set a good example for your supporters by your own actions George, a licence to have a gun doesn't give you the licence to harass just anybody you see on the street. Your life has completely changed because you made a choice, I sincerely hope others have learned that their 2nd ammendment rights do not trump the rights of others. Personally I believe you need to serve time, but I get the feeling you'll be let off the hook.

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PostPosted: Fri Apr 20, 2012 11:55 pm 
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One very big problem I have with these new, "shocking" :o pics of Zimmerman's head wounds is this: There wasn't all that much blood. Anyone who's ever dealt with a minor head wound knows that they bleed like the end of the world.

I ran into a wall when I was 7 years old (do not ask) and from the blood flowing everywhere it was obvious I was going to die. Even my mom, a surgical OR nurse, was freaking over all of the blood! It was everywhere! Bloody towels, crying, frightened children... and a frantic drive over the East Channel Bridge to the ER at my mom's hospital where...

OMG...I took 3, count 'em, 3 stiches, and two of them were prolly a nod to make my mom feel better.

In my "expert" opinion, the wounds on Zimmerman's head are consistant with an armed asshole involved in a life-or-death struggle with a frightened, un-armed teen, teen got the upper hand and armed ashole pulled his gun and shot the scary black teen to death. These were not the wounds of someone who was fighting for his life, they were the wounds of a douchebag who thought he was in control and found out that he was not.

If I were in the jury pool for this one, I could not claim to be unbiased.

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