I haz a question, but I don’t have the book. I found this quote from the book online:

“Robert's Rules says:
The basic principle of decision in a deliberative assembly is that, to become the act or choice of the body, a proposition must be adopted by a majority vote; that is, direct approval - implying assumption of responsibility for the act - must be registered by more than half of the members present and voting on the particular matter, in a regular or properly called meeting at which the necessary minimum number of members, known as a quorum (pp. 20-21), is present (see also p. 387).
On Tie Votes, from Robert's Rules of Order Newly Revised, 10th Edition, page 4.”

Okay, I get that part. There must be a majority to pass a motion, and on a tie vote the motion fails. BUT what I was looking for was who if anyone, and under what circumstance has the right to bring that failed motion back up? Then I found this:

http://www.co.goodhue.mn.us/WhatsNew/Le ... nsider.pdf

So what this says according to Roberts Rules is that in a tie the no vote wins and is the prevailing side, and only a person casting a no vote can bring the issue back up, is that really right? And is the suggestion that the board give notice in advance to reconsider the matter on the next meeting agenda also a rule in the book, or is that just a suggestion.

One last question. If a board of supervisors is in a work session, and not in a proper board of supervisors meeting, does the book say anything about the legality of bringing up an issue that failed in a tie vote (by one who voted yes) and the board then voting to pass the failed motion?

Would that be a leg to stand on for the side that was overturned at this work session vote? (Or even a stump?) Is it even legal for a board to vote on a motion in a work session? (Okay, so that was 3 more questions )

I don't have access to a copy at the moment cos I'm traveling, though I do own a copy at home. So take this for what it's worth.

Yeah, it is correct that a motion to reconsider may only be made by someone who voted with the prevailing side. If you follow Congress, you may have noticed that Nancy Pelosi and Harry Reid sometimes vote "Aye" to the most repugnant and dreadful Republican measures that pass. That is precisely because they have standing to re-raise the matter.

As for when a MtR can be made: It can be made immediately after passage (and has the highest priority), later in the same session (where it has priority over all except other business presently being considered) or it can be scheduled by the chair as business to be considered in a future meeting. I believe that latter is a rule, but I'm not positive. (Sorry 'bout that.)


Again shooting from the hip, my guess is that, in addition to Robert's Rules, the board of supervisors is subject to some sort of public disclosure or "sunshine law". (I'm assuming this is an official public body.) If you're looking for "leg to stand on", frankly, I'd look to the state and/or local laws governing public proceedings. Typically, there are legal limitations on what can be done in closed meetings or executive sessions.

Wish I could be more help. Good luck!

My Jakers might haz hope after all.

A tangentially related questions.

Since Federal and State laws require Roberts Rules to be followed in various settings, shouldn't those rules become public documents?

I'd love to go through a copy of them right now.

There are earlier editions available on-line.

http://www.rulesonline.com/

Don't get me started on this. It happens to be a personal pet peeve.

Should rules mandated by law be publicly available without having to pay fees to a private owner of the content? Personally, I think so. But unfortunately, that isn't always the case.

Another good example is the National Electric Code (NEC). It's written, owned and copyrighted by the National Fire Protection Association and if you want a copy, it'll set you back a couple of hundred bucks.

Despite this, many state legislatures incorporate the NEC by reference into enforcement statutes. You can read the statute saying how much you'll get fined for code violations for free, but if you want to see what the requirements are, you need to buy a copy or use a copy someone else has bought. (Admitedly, you can probably read it for free at some library or other.)

It's something I considered litigating a few years ago. But then there are a lot of things I once considered doing and never did.

On a related subject, it would appear we're fast moving to all-online legal libraries available only via paid subscription (e.g., PACER). Once the hard copy books are gone, how is an ordinary citizen supposed to know the law? (After all, ignorance of the law is no excuse, right?)

Yeah, I know. They can go to the court house and pay to have an opinion copied. Uh huh.

Grouch, grouch. I'm getting grumpy, I telz ya.

It's been public domain for quite some time, although there are still revised editions being printed.

Generally, parliamentary bodies use rules based on Robert's Rules, rather than the actual generic version. It's still a good reference work in general.

And when you want to impress and remove all doubt you're right, just thump your 1915 version of RRO. (I believe that's the last edition that is in the public domain.)

When I was Board Chair for our Community Health Organization (FQHC*), we did not strictly adhere to Roberts Rules, which is somewhat typical for small boards. This may well describe the more relaxed atmosphere.

http://www.dummies.com/how-to/content/how-to-relax-roberts-rules.html

None of my meetings ran long and everybody got a chance to express their views (even if I had to poke the reticent with a gentle stick™.)

*FQHC = Federally Qualified Health Center

The Kindle issue of the revised 11th edition of Robert's Rules is available for $2.99. Robert's Rules for Dummies would suit me better but is more expensive. I don't know how much change there has been since the 1876 edition, which is available free. All Kindle e-books can be read on tablets with the appropriate app.

I scanned the section on Reconsider to my scribd. I may not leave it up long since it's from the 75th Anniversary Edition which has a 1951 copyright.

http://www.scribd.com/doc/90068481/Reconsider

Don't know how to embed. Let me know if you can't get to it by the link.

I know about the NEC. I missed my Masters Certification by one month since my scores would have passed the test using the scoring system incorporated the month after I took the test. My career took a turn and I never went to retake the test.



I was made chair of my first convention when I made a parliamentary inquiry into why our County Chair appointed the Permanent Chair instead of the Temporary Chair. I was elected chair since I knew the actual rules better than the appointed Temporary Chair.

We were out in 35 minutes because we spent time trying to persuade people to sign up as delegates for the next level.

My first move is to entertain a motion to suspend the rules and allow the chair to make motions and call for votes. The meeting flies after that by unanimous consent.

I make a motion, get a second, explain why the motion had to be made, give everyone a minute to ask questions, call for a voice vote, and then move to the next item.

I have my notebook setup to simultaneously record the chair and the floor. I hope to submit the video as an example of how to fly through a convention. We only have to select 4 Delegates plus Alternates and pass my two Resolutions. I doubt anyone will object to anything. Off agenda candidate time will probably take up most of the time.

Greetings:

Don't know if anyone is still interested in this topic. I came across it on a Google search.

But you might want to know that there are lots of resources out there for correctly interpreting and applying Robert's Rules of Order, Newly Revised (RONR) - the current edition of which just came out last fall, and is the 11th Edition.

Specifically, there is a "Q&A Forum" on the official RONR website - in which most of the members of the current edition's authorship team as well as others of us who are "credentialed parliamentarians" through the National Association of Parliamentarians are regular contributors. Here is a direct link to the forum: http://robertsrules.forumflash.com/inde ... iscussion/. Anyone can ask questions and get quick answers. There are also professional parliamentarians in most US States and elsewhere (we are an international organization) who can be consulted. They can be located through the national association's website, which is: www.parliamentarians.org.

Greg Goodwiller, PRP
(Professional Registered Parliamentarian)