lyssandri wrote:
hitch wrote:
Orly's lining up her witnesses. First subpoenaed is Bettina Viviano, a very disgruntled democrat who helped make a movie
"We Will Not Be Silenced". From the website
Quote:
As Americans, we expect certain liberties and rights that were defined by by our forefathers in documents like the Constitution and the Declaration of Independence. "We the people" expect that these fundamental rights will always be protected. However, in the current Democratic Presidential Primary, this has not been the case. We believe The Democratic National Committee (DNC) made a grave error by depriving American voters of their choice of Hillary Clinton as Democratic nominee. Senator Clinton, by all accounts, except caucuses, won the Primary Election and, therefore, should be the 2008 Democratic Nominee. That didn't happen, due largely to illegitimate and illegal acts. We have interviews of many accounts from caucus states recounting threats, intimidation, lies, stolen documents, falsified documents, busing in voters in exchange for paying for "dinners," etc. There are at least 2000 complaints, in Texas alone, of irregularities directed towards the Obama Campaign, that have lead to a very fractured and broken Democratic Party.
I'm fairly I already know the answer to this, but I'm asking anyway - is there any truth **at all** to what she's claiming? Or are the charges just completely bogus?
Thanks!
I love this line. Turn it around and say "Soandso won the election, and all the caucuses, as long as you don't count primary elections."
I know a lot of people have disagreements about whether or not caucuses are worthwhile compared to standard primary elections for the purposes of electing delegates to the conventions. But those disagreements aren't relevant at the moment. The fact is in 2008 both the Democratic and Republican parties had some states that held caucuses, and some states that held primary elections. A caucus tends to bring out the diehards, those who are wholly committed to a candidate. Get-out-the-voter efforts for caucuses are of great importance, as the "number of caucus-goers per delegate" is significantly lower than in a primary. And yes, every candidate tries all they can to get people to go, generally by offering transportation. I haven't heard anything about "falsifying documents", but PUMAs have been claiming that for years without any evidence. The reality is if Hillary Clinton had something definitive to use against President Obama in the primary, including "election fraud", she probably would have used it. That's politics.
So it's true that (although it's a bit wrong in that President Obama did not participate in Michigan, while Hillary Clinton did, against her pledge to not do so) Hillary Clinton did get marginally more
primary election votes than President Obama. I don't recall the numbers and I'm sure someone can find them on Wikipedia. But President Obama's strategy included a focus on the caucus states, and getting his supporters to attend the caucuses, and he won a large number of delegates from caucus states, with a corresponding lower number of people actually participating. In contrast, Hillary Clinton's campaign staff openly stated they were focusing on the large primary election states with large numbers of delegates. President Obama's strategy won - the delegates he was awarded from caucuses overcame Hillary Clinton's advantage in the primary election states.
Look, our presidential primaries are still done very strangely, with each state doing their elections differently (primaries or caucuses) and apportioning delegates differently (winner take all, by district, proportionally, etc). But President Obama did gain more delegates, and was the nominee.