So my elderly mother in law passed away in mid-January, and my husband had major surgery a week later, and it's only now that I'm beginning to be able to deal with the problem of my elderly FIL and their estate. A couple of cousins and a neighbor have been keeping an eye on him while I've been distracted with Mr. K's disablity, but now I'm going to need to step up to the plate.

The first problem is, they have a living trust, and their house and my house (which they bought for us but kept in their names) are in this trust, along with their bank accounts. I got FIL to give me the name of his attorney, and to my horror when I checked him on the State Bar website I discovered his status was "resigned with charges pending". His law partner/wife had a 90 day suspension for some shenanigans as well. But this attorney is still dealing with my FIL, and acting like everythings OK, he's just "retired" and his wife will handle the paperwork. Nothing has been done with my MIL's will, this attorney said that it's moot because of the trust (which doesn't sound right to me, but what do I know, I only worked in a probate law office for a year....)

I know the first step is to get FIL to get a new attorney, but he's so stubborn and doesn't trust anyone new. We will be calling the son of his best friend who is an attorney, hopefully FIL will take freind's son's advice and go with whoever he refers. But if he won't agree, what can I (well my husband and I, but mostly it'll be me doing the work) do about it? We don't have FIL's POA or anything like that.

Then, of course, there's the problem of getting him out of his house and into assisted living, he really can't live alone anymore and I can't take care of him while working full time and taking care of my disabled husband. But one thing at a time. This attorney situation has got me really pissed off.

What state?

Sounds like a real mess. What’s the FIL’s mental state like? Is he still with the program?

Stern - California. We're all in Los Angeles.

Ms. Daisy - FIL has pretty severe short-term memory loss. He will ask the same question 5 or 6 times in the space of 20 minutes. He needs help paying the bills (not financially, they are quite well off, but the actual doing of it) and stuff like that. He needs to stop driving, but he's talking of buying a new car. He is 88 years old, a Holocaust survivor, and my husband is his only child, but my unfotunately my husband has been disabled/chronically ill since 1998.

A good starting point. By all means, get thee to a good trust & estates lawyer. Run, don't walk!

Fuggedabout talking FIL into getting a new attorney this moment. IMO, your HUSBAND (via you, if necessary during his recovery from surgery) should seek legal advice. NOW!

Some General Info (not specific legal advice):

Most likely (but don't take this as guaranteed by any means!), the bulk of their assets were put in the name of their living trust as part of their estate planning. In the typical inter-vivos ("revocable") trust, when one spouse dies, the surviving spouse becomes the sole trustee and so very little needs to be done involving a probate court. (That's a lot of the reason for forming living trusts in the first place.) Also, there may be what is known as a "pourover will" to deal with assets or issues falling outside the trust. (There are other technical reasons for having a pourover will, but let's leave that for your attorney to explain.)

Again assuming a typical case, when the second spouse dies, a successor trustee (designated in the trust document) takes over the trust and it is no longer "revocable". Much like administering an estate, the successor trustee distributes assets in accordance with the terms of the trust. In your situation, this would include re-deeding the house to DH & you. So trust administration largely takes the place of estate administration, but it is designed to be simpler and there is usually no involvement of a probate court.

The entire process is dependent on the reliability of the trustee(s). If the trustee is, indeed, trustworthy, estate administration is much simplified. However, if the trustee is not trustworthy or reliable, untoward things that escape notice can occur because there is no court supervision.

So then, here are a couple of threshold questions:

1. Who is the current trustee(s). This could be your FIL or **shudder** it could be one or both of the suspect attorney(s). Also, who is (are) the successor trustee(s)?

2. Is there a pourover will and, if so, who is designated as executor/executrix/personal representative? (Most likely your husband and/or siblings, but who knows??)

3. Is your FIL capable of paying his bills and managing his affairs? If not, is there anyone in the family who has power-of-attorney for him? Or, **again, shudder ** is his old "attorney pair" (now unlicensed) writing his checks and controlling his assets?

Whatever the answers may be to these initial questions, your husband and perhaps you are interested parties and should (once again, IMO only) seek disinterested, competent counsel. Among other things, under most state law, you have broad rights of disclosure. If nothing else, this situation screams for sunlight.

While a pourover will (if one exists) needs to probated and administered now (or soon), the operations of the living trust can pretty much continue on as they have. In the worst case, if "business as usual" includes embezzlement or excessive fees, that, too, can continue until your FIL dies. Unless and until you and DH demand some oversight, that is.

IMO, you'd do better to retain counsel and let your lawyer tackle the problems associated with what appears to be unauthorized practice of law. Your lawyer would also be more effective at ferreting out what is actually going on.

Good luck!

It might be helpful to make an appt or call and speak with his physician to explain the situation. If the doc can test him and diagnoses him as demented, maybe you could petition the court for guardianship.

I think I would call his doc anyway ask what he thinks, can’t hurt and it might help.

You need to have someone appointed his guardian. You should contact the L.A. County Public Guardian to discuss how and what to do what needs to be done. (Not my area of law I'm afraid.) The Bar should also be told about the UPL.

Yet another reason to seek counsel, IMO.

Thanks everyone - seems like this is going to be worse than I thought. Hey, universe, I have enough on my plate rignt now, m'kay?

Wow, good luck.

don't be surprized if FIL gets a bit resentfull.

Is there anyone else in the family to help out?

Ya know, it may not be all that bad.

Looking at the bright side, if you establish a relationship with a good trust & estates attorney now, it may prove invaluable down the road. If nothing else, you'll have the skids greased for whatever the future holds for FIL. And if, as you imply, he has bucks, it'll probably be well worth it in the long run.

Yabbut a good lawyer looking out for your interests can take a lot of the load off of you.

Costs $$, but it probably will save you $$$$ in the end.

What my lawyer cost is two months worth of what he got me until I turn 66 or can work again. That was some investment!

I good lawyers.

Agreed. Any lawyer should be experienced in both elder law and probate law. The mental issues in the case aren't going to get any better, and the whole issue has a large likelihood to end up a will dispute, possibly with a fraudulent will or looted estate.

Can you call the California State Bar and request a written letter stating the simple truth that this attorney is not licensed? You could provide that to your father-in-law, and it might persuade him standing alone.

The state bar in my state is very friendly, to both consumers and attorneys, for simple requests of this nature.

Go to the state bar website. http://www.calbar.ca.gov/ Put in the lawyer's name. When the correct record comes up, print it off in all its glory and you have your proof. Maybe not for a court proceeding but for most sane people. If the discipline pending was recent you can print that off, too, near the bottom of the page for the lawyer/former lawyer.

I'm prolly just sneakier than youse guys. While I'd surely query the bar (as Poutine & Stern suggest) to verify the attorneys' licensing status, I doubt I'd lead with that information when making "first contact" with the dynamic duo. I'd tend to play a round or two of the information exchange game and listen to what they say before they've raised shields.

It's funny how fast folks can clam up and lose paperwork while they hustle to concoct an alternative reality once they know that you know they've been defrocked. (Whew, that was a mouthful.)

That's why, if you intend to use a lawyer very soon, my advice remains: defer filing a bar complaint yourself or raising any obvious red flags. Leave the scene intact for your lawyer. YMMV.

I'm not actually suggesting the drastic step of filing a bar complaint. Since the father-in-law appears stubbornly loyal to this attorney, I'm just pointing out that a plain English letter from the state bar reciting some simple facts might be highly persuasive, where a daughter-in-law's good hearted but ironically ignored pleas might not. (I agree with Stern's suggestion, if a letter will not be possible.)

Stern, that's exactly what I did (minus the printing part). Unfortunately FIL would not trust my judgement even though I've been a legal secretary for over 10 years now and know a thing or two about law talkin' kind of people. I've never met this guy, but my husband's cousins were out here from Georgia for a week to help out my FIL, and help him get his affairs in order and deal with getting my MIL's name taken off of things, going through her clothes, etc. (this was when my husband had just gotten out of the hospital). This "attorney" wouldn't meet them at his office, they met at a restaurant. The cousins got a bad feeling about this guy, and they couldn't get any questions answered, or any information about the trust, the will, or anything else that they needed to help my FIL get his life in order. (FIL was with them so it wasn't a matter of atty-client privilege.) My MIL's name still has not been taken off things, credit cards have not been cancelled, etc. Right now FIL is visiting with these cousins (he went out there for Passover), he gets back next week, and hopefully by then Mr. K will be able to drive and some of the load will be off me (a girl can dream, right?)

Thanks for all the advice everyone! And I'm definately going to try to get the case file out of the hands of these clowns and into a good law firm before I mention the words "state bar" to them.

This thread needs some humor. Spooky situation, but you're getting great advice, P.K. Sorry all this is happening, it does seem like a heavy load.

One post of lighten-up:

It's humor.

Accountants are depreciated.