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 Post subject: Playing the Hitler card
PostPosted: Fri Mar 09, 2012 3:37 am 
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One of my conservative friends has often compared Obama to Hitler and Stalin. His latest comparison involved a quote from Hitler about gun registration (which I later found out Hitler never actually said).

My stock response whenever he starts the Hitler comparisons is "Let me know when this administration rounds up and kills millions of people, then I'll believe you."

Am I being too flip or too pollyanna-ish?

I really don't think our freedoms are being taken away to the extent he seems to think they are.


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 Post subject: Playing the Hitler card
PostPosted: Fri Mar 09, 2012 9:41 am 
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DrIrvingFinegarten wrote:
Am I being too flip or too pollyanna-ish?

Not in my view. Hitler and Stalin comparisons of the Obama administration (or for that matter the Bush administration) are in horribly bad taste. Just because the government does something that in a person's view does something unconstitutional does not give it the moral equivalence of a murderous regime with death factories. It cheapens the word Nazi or Communist to something ambiguously and only somewhat "bad" rather than remembering the horrors of those regimes

If Hitler was in charge right now, the simple truth is that I would be sterilized or more likely murdered because I might pollute the Aryan race with my imperfections. And the scary thing would be only a small drop of evil committed by the government

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 Post subject: Playing the Hitler card
PostPosted: Fri Mar 09, 2012 9:57 am 
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One of the problems with living out such extreme rhetoric, is there's nowhere to go from there.

What will they say when we have a President (like, say, GWB) who actually DOES round up American citizens, based on their religion, without due process and incarcerate them for months or years without charging them or trying them? Is there a Hitler 'scale', where Obama is 'like 1 Hitler', but Bush is 16 Hitlers? And Hitler himself is 1,000 Hitlers?

If that's the scale, I'll take 1 Hitler. They're both famous world leaders.


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 Post subject: Playing the Hitler card
PostPosted: Fri Mar 09, 2012 10:09 am 
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Hektor wrote:
...If Hitler was in charge right now, the simple truth is that I would be sterilized or more likely murdered because I might pollute the Aryan race with my imperfections. And the scary thing would be only a small drop of evil committed by the government

That is absolutely true: Hitler's first victims were people that he considered to be a threat to the Aryan gene pool. Nazi Persecution of the Mentally and Physically Disabled. Emphasis mine:
Quote:
Nazi Germany was not the first or only country to sterilize people considered "abnormal." Before Hitler, the United States led the world in forced sterilizations. Between 1907 and 1939, more than 30,000 people in twenty-nine states were sterilized, many of them unknowingly or against their will, while they were incarcerated in prisons or institutions for the mentally ill. Nearly half the operations were carried out in California. Advocates of sterilization policies in both Germany and the United States were influenced by eugenics. This sociobiological theory took Charles Darwin's principle of natural selection and applied it to society. Eugenicists believed the human race could be improved by controlled breeding.

Still, no nation carried sterilization as far as Hitler's Germany. The forced sterilizations began in January 1934, and altogether an estimated 300,000 to 400,000 people were sterilized under the law. A diagnosis of "feeblemindedness" provided the grounds in the majority of cases, followed by schizophrenia and epilepsy. The usual method of sterilization was vasectomy and ligation of ovarian tubes of women. Irradiation (x-rays or radium) was used in a small number of cases. Several thousand people died as a result of the operations, women disproportionately because of the greater risks of tubal ligation.

Most of the persons targeted by the law were patients in mental hospitals and other institutions. The majority of those sterilized were between the ages of twenty and forty, about equally divided between men and women. Most were "Aryan" Germans. The "Sterilization Law" did not target socalled racial groups, such as Jews and Gypsies, although Gypsies were sterilized as deviant "asocials," as were some homosexuals. Also, about 500 teenagers of mixed African and German parentage (the offspring of French colonial troops stationed in the Rhineland in the early 1920s) were sterilized because of their race, by secret order, outside the provisions of the law.

Hitler imported his eugenics "science" directly from the United States.

It is incorrect to attribute the eugenics movement in the U.S. to Darwin's work. "Social Darwinism" became the name for the "science"/ideology well after its theories and prescriptions had been promulgated in Europe and the U.S. Spencer and the other advocates of eugenics never understood Darwin's work.

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 Post subject: Playing the Hitler card
PostPosted: Fri Mar 09, 2012 12:41 pm 
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ZorbasLeGreque wrote:
DrIrvingFinegarten wrote:

I really don't think our freedoms are being taken away to the extent he seems to think they are.


So what freedoms are being taken away by President Obama at all ? Cause I as a non-native speaker of English read "to the extent" as your statement that President Obama has taken away a lot of freedoms, just not as many as Hitler.

I confirm the freedom to stay uninsured and - when illness strikes - to ask society to pay.

Can you name some other freedoms that have been taken from you by President Obama ?


Well, he claims that forcing religion-based employers to have contraception in their health plans is infringing on freedom of religion and that now that the government can kill US citzens involved in terrorism, that is infringing on other freedoms.
He seems worried that instead of just atrgeting Muslims like the Bush administration did, now they may go after the Tea Party.


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 Post subject: Playing the Hitler card
PostPosted: Fri Mar 09, 2012 1:13 pm 
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DrIrvingFinegarten wrote:
Well, he claims that forcing religion-based employers to have contraception in their health plans is infringing on freedom of religion...


I'd be interested in knowing how he values the freedom of those employees covered by the health plan. Aren't they entitled to their own autonomy in choosing (with their doctors) the forms of medical care they want and need?

I'm curious to know -- what if an employer said, "I don't want my employees to have [contraception, abortion, whatever...], and I will make them agree not to purchase it with the salary I give them. I don't want my money going to what I consider immoral activities"

I suspect most of us would consider that to be an absolute non-starter, a totally unacceptable infringement on our personal liberties. Yet saying "I don't want you to use the health insurance I give you in these specific ways" is not that far from saying "I don't want you to use the money I give you in these specific ways." Both are forms of compensation, and their proper use should be determined by the recipients.

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 Post subject: Playing the Hitler card
PostPosted: Fri Mar 09, 2012 1:23 pm 
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These people are idiots or just plain hateful. They think nothing of the terror the name Hitler still strikes with the surviving Holocaust victims and their families. For a Jew like Taitz to call Obama a Nazi trivializes what possibly happened to her own family during the Holocaust or under Stalin and horrifies the Jewish community. So that's why I doubt she may even be a true Jew. If she truly understood and cared about those horrible genocides against the Jews, she would never open her mouth to call anyone a Nazi. She does herself, her family , her heritage great disrespect. But then again she doesn't care. I might assume she could be a Holocaust denier. If she isn't, then she should STFU. Commonly throwing out words like Nazi diminishes its meaning and allows for a renewed proliferation of antisemitism.

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 Post subject: Playing the Hitler card
PostPosted: Fri Mar 09, 2012 1:26 pm 
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DrIrvingFinegarten wrote:
He seems worried that instead of just atrgeting Muslims like the Bush administration did, now they may go after the Tea Party.

Cause targeting Muslims was just fine.


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 Post subject: Playing the Hitler card
PostPosted: Fri Mar 09, 2012 1:51 pm 
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It's the most ignorant, overreaching, uneducated comparison one can make. It's utterly absurd, and anyone who has studied even basic WW2/German history of the early 1900's knows what a complete crock it is.

It's the same as people saying that something is "worse than the holocaust".

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 Post subject: Playing the Hitler card
PostPosted: Fri Mar 09, 2012 5:24 pm 
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Comparisons to Hitler run afoul of Godwin's Law

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Godwin's_law

The idea being that in any discussion, the first person to make a Hitler or Nazi comparison loses both the argument all creditability. Unless the topic is real totalitarian regimes, like the ones that round up and kill millions of people.


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 Post subject: Playing the Hitler card
PostPosted: Fri Mar 09, 2012 5:39 pm 
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Take a tip from Barney Frank on how to handle these morons:



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 Post subject: Playing the Hitler card
PostPosted: Fri Mar 09, 2012 6:38 pm 
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JSL515 wrote:
Comparisons to Hitler run afoul of Godwin's Law

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Godwin's_law

The idea being that in any discussion, the first person to make a Hitler or Nazi comparison loses both the argument all creditability. Unless the topic is real totalitarian regimes, like the ones that round up and kill millions of people.

For birthers, however, Godwin's Law has an indemnity clause, since they've already lost both the argument and all credibility before they begin. It's like a free hall pass to invoke Naziism.


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 Post subject: Playing the Hitler card
PostPosted: Fri Mar 09, 2012 6:58 pm 
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DrIrvingFinegarten wrote:
His latest comparison involved a quote from Hitler about gun registration (which I later found out Hitler never actually said).


What has the Obama administration done towards any kind of gun control? :roll:

Quote:
Gun control group gives Obama failing grade; says it's been disappointing year

President Barack Obama received a failing grade this year from The Brady Campaign to Prevent Gun Violence on Monday .

The Brady Campaign blasted the president, whom the group endorsed in 2008, for not having taken significant steps to advance gun control laws.

"It's been a very disappointing year for us, especially considering what he campaigned on," the group's president, Paul Helmke, said during an appearance on MSNBC. "This year they ran away from the issue, and actually signed two repeals of good gun legislation."


http://thehill.com/blogs/blog-briefing- ... -for-obama

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 Post subject: Playing the Hitler card
PostPosted: Fri Mar 09, 2012 8:13 pm 
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Sequoia32 wrote:
What has the Obama administration done towards any kind of gun control? :roll:

Nothing. But that didn't stop panic purchases by gun nuts.

Quote:
Gun sales at record levels, according to FBI background checks

December 27, 2011|By Carol Cratty, CNN

Shoppers bought record numbers of guns this holiday season, according to FBI figures.
December holiday shoppers were not just interested in buying the hottest electronics and toys -- they also were purchasing record numbers of guns, according to the latest FBI figures on background checks required to buy firearms.

With a few days left in December, the FBI reports the number of background checks has already topped the previous one-month record -- set only in November -- of 1,534,414 inquiries by gun dealers to the National Instant Criminal Background Check System also known as NICS. Almost half a million checks were done in just the last six days before Christmas.
(snip)
"It would appear because of fear-mongering by the NRA since (President Barack) Obama's election that people are adding more guns to their arsenals out of fear Obama and the Democrats will take away their guns, which is absurd," said Brewer.

They're afraid Obama is going to take away their "God-given" right to guns. (I can't find it in the bible, but I keep searching)

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 Post subject: Playing the Hitler card
PostPosted: Thu Oct 18, 2012 4:32 pm 
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An 80 year old Connecticut woman was arrested after tearing downs signs that had an image of President Obama with a Hitler style mustache. The signs were erected by workers for perennial presidential candidate Lyndon LaRouche.
St Louis Post Dispatch wrote:
Nancy Lack tells WVIT-TV she was offended by the picture and took down three posters that were being hung last Thursday near the post office on Main Street in Hebron, Conn.
<snipped>
Lack says she knew she would get in trouble. But she says she lived through World War II and was angry that someone would portray the president as a Nazi.

She was released on a promise to appear in court next week.
http://www.stltoday.com/news/national/c ... 505bb.html

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 Post subject: Playing the Hitler card
PostPosted: Thu Oct 18, 2012 4:41 pm 
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Very interesting. A couple of weeks ago I saw a poster that fit that description, surrounded by a small group with buttons and stickers that identified them as LaRouche supporters, also (coincidentally?) positioned right outside the Post Office.

Edit: ETA: In Ellsworth, Maine.

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 Post subject: Playing the Hitler card
PostPosted: Thu Oct 18, 2012 4:52 pm 
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MaineSkeptic wrote:
Very interesting. A couple of weeks ago I saw a poster that fit that description, surrounded by a small group with buttons and stickers that identified them as LaRouche supporters, also (coincidentally?) positioned right outside the Post Office.

Edit: ETA: In Ellsworth, Maine.

They've been outside my courthouse in SoCal, on and off, for four years.

They are obnoxious cultists. Curiously, I myself havenever seen a woman as part of any of their groups.

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 Post subject: Playing the Hitler card
PostPosted: Thu Oct 18, 2012 5:23 pm 
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The only time I see the LaRoushi's is when they are singing parodies of Xmas carols in front of B of A in the Castro. Besides singing, they are handing out their propaganda sheets about the money supply. They try to look like Victorian carolers tra-la-la-ing.

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 Post subject: Playing the Hitler card
PostPosted: Thu Oct 18, 2012 5:57 pm 
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ducktape wrote:
MaineSkeptic wrote:
Very interesting. A couple of weeks ago I saw a poster that fit that description, surrounded by a small group with buttons and stickers that identified them as LaRouche supporters, also (coincidentally?) positioned right outside the Post Office.

Edit: ETA: In Ellsworth, Maine.

They've been outside my courthouse in SoCal, on and off, for four years.

They are obnoxious cultists. Curiously, I myself havenever seen a woman as part of any of their groups.


They sometimes have a table at Belize University on nice days, and there's plenty of earnest young women in the cult. That's what attracts the young guys to hear the pitch.

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 Post subject: Playing the Hitler card
PostPosted: Thu Oct 18, 2012 6:02 pm 
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I once had one chase me after I called him a brain-dead sycophant to a syphilitic moron. :mrgreen:

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 Post subject: Playing the Hitler card
PostPosted: Thu Oct 18, 2012 9:13 pm 
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esseff44 wrote:
The only time I see the LaRoushi's is when they are singing parodies of Xmas carols in front of B of A in the Castro. Besides singing, they are handing out their propaganda sheets about the money supply. They try to look like Victorian carolers tra-la-la-ing.


I despise the Larouche cult. About all it does that has any positive benefit is demonstrate that for something to be a destructive cult, it is not necessary that its core beliefs be religious.

As far as I am concerned, Larouche can't die and go to Hell soon enough.

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