http://news.yahoo.com/saints-ancient-he ... 28913.html



More at the link

First of all before people go "lol catholics" St. Patricks is an Anglican Cathedral, and is a beutiful building by the way

I know people are gonna go "huh superstition lol" but that heart was an object of veneration for people for 800 years, and now its gone. Someone actually went in, cut through some iron bars and left with it. And he wanted that heart. And that heart is worthless monitarily. Whoever did it was striking at people on a very personal level. Laurance O'Toole was a brilliant man and deserved veneration. How would you feel if someone dug up washington or linchons graves and ran off with their skull?

It makes me angry on a religions and a histrorical level. That was a physical link to 800 years of history. If you went in there and said a prayer at that shrine you were joining people who have stood at that place and done the same thing for centuaries. Thats a tradition that survived the reformation and persecution of catholics. Its a link that has now been broken. You can't call all those people stupid wothout overwhelming arrogance.

I feel very sad about this.

Me too.

The theft is a barbaric act.

I saw the article suranis quoted earlier this morning. One thing that struck me was that it's not an isolated incident:

How very sad. What's up with idiots who would steal irreplaceable relics from a church?

It seems so pointless. There's hardly a chance of being rewarded in either this life or the next one.

The Catholic Church lost a sentimental artifact?

As the Catholic leadership has become increasingly vile over the past couple of decades, forgive me if I don't shed a tear.

C'mon Jimbot, how would you feel if Vattel's grave were desecrated?

They can send to Italy for another one. They have lots of spares.

Yes Suranis it is a beautiful building. I saw it last summer when I was there but didn’t get to go in. (Plus I didn’t have my favorite Irish tour guide with me at the time ) I’m very sorry this happened, it is a tragedy for everyone when something so sacred is stolen, even for heathens like me and I haz a sad about it too.

What I find strange is that nothing else was touched. Why are these specific items are being targeted. I wonder what they could have in common that would be of such interest to some one.

The Heart and the Jawbone were taken unseen barely two months apart, but a news snip on the fragments of the cross stated that “masked thieves” had raided the abbey last October.
(Snip found here http://www.timesofmalta.com/articles/vi ... efs.388943)

Who would have some kind of historical interest or motivation in obtaining these things? Wiki says St. Brigit lived 451-525 and is one of the few saints who stood on the boundary between pagan mythology, Druidism and Christian spirituality. That is probably not really relevant but is there any groups or cults that you know of that could have a specific interest these things? Or is it more likely to be some hateful little shits trying to get his/her jollies?

And the beat goes on ~~~~~~~

On my most recent trip to Ireland, I remember three special visits. One was to Christ Church Cathedral, which is indeed a beautiful building. Another was to the Long Room of the Old Library at University College Dublin and, of course, the room housing its Book of Kells (a page of which is partially reproduced on a tie that I bought there). This was, to me, the most sacred of the three sites. The third was to the new (1220) St. Patrick's Cathedral. There I was fortunate enough to hear a trio doing sound tests for a recording to be made later that day.

Suranis mentioned the persecution of Catholics in Ireland. Today, persecution of Catholics in the Republic seems incredible, but it was harsh in the days of Cromwell and under several kings. People died rather than renounce their faith. I found Pete Hamill's Forever: A Novel to be an interesting tale of those times (and later), although his main character is an Irish Jew who dabbles in Celtic mythology and, later, Santeria. The story of brutal British oppression, including the fatal withholding of grain stocks during the great potato famine, is sad. The Irish need not have starved.

St. Patrick's Day is coming soon, when I wear green, not orange.

Maybe they are building a Frankensaint.

Hmmmm... if I only was a graphic novelist...

Suranis, many of us don't share your beliefs that these items are sacred, but 1. I appreciate that you do and that this is a loss for you and, 2. I can extrapolate from my own experiences of loss that other people would not appreciate, and 3. I do share your appreciation of historical things and realize that this is also a historical loss.

So, I hope that the thieves are caught and that the items are returned (if possible).

Its not a Catholic Church Neonix, and that artifact has been in the posession and care of PROTESTANTS since the reformation and before your country was founded. Maybe you should think about why they kept that artifact intact for 400 years despite it bieng vile and Catholic. I'm glad they were more forward thinking and thoughtfull than you 400 freaking years ago.

And maybe you should think about how "vile" your college football associactions are, or has all that been covered up, buried and forgotten already? Funny that, isn't it? It seems that we all have our secred institutions that shall not be questioned.

Oh yeah, one final word. Asshole.

Well, St Bridgid was a least a blending of bridgid and a the Celtic god Bigid, so its possible that some Celtic Revivalist cults could have taken The jawbone of st bridgid. But that would bot apply here. O'Toole was a historical figure, he absolutly existed and he had no connection to Celtic Mythology at all. This wasn't a fake relic this was absolutly his heart.

Frankly my money is on hateful little shit trying to hurt as many people as he can and justifying it with "huh the church is bad" Either that or a professional thief fulfilling a contract for someone, but the fact there has been a spate of these things leads to the hateful asshole conclusion.

I'm a lapsed Catholic. My anger toward the position of the Catholic Church on social issues is the primary reason I'm not a practicing Catholic.

Theft is theft. Whether the heart is viewed as a religious icon, a work of art, or $2.50 worth of mummified flesh, it's wrong to steal the thing. Given the location and history of the item, this is the theft of an item that's part of Irish Heritage, and in a very real way it as theft of something from the entire nation. That, whatever you think of the Catholic Church - and even if you persist in believing that this was taken from a Catholic cathedral rather than a Protestant one - is wrong.

I also think everyone and everything is entitled to be treated with a certain amount of dignity. I think that's the case no matter how much you might personally dislike them, or how misled, evil, vile, whatever, they might be. I don't think that someone else's failure to treat people with basic dignity should be an excuse to deny them that treatment.

I think that mocking an institution following the theft of an item that they treasure is wrong. I don't think that changes based on the institution involved. I think that's particularly true when we're talking about a culturally important item that - until the theft - had been on public display.

</soapbox>

Actually, the number of the thefts and lack of a public statement makes me suspect the contract thing - wealthy collector, maybe?

I would add three possibilities to suranis' speculations -

A Catholic crazy seaking to liberate a relic from protestant captivity

A Protestant crazy seeking to free a Protestant cathedral from catholic superstitious pollution

Some sad superstitious individual of whatever creed who simply thinks possessing this relic will solve his or her problem(s).

Suranis - do you know if the other reported thefts were from Catholic or Protestant Churchs and if the Garda, rather than jounalists, are connecting them with the latest theft?

Reminds me of St Patrick's day in Cincinnati. The Irish sneak into St PAtrick's which is in the German Catholic section of town and steal the statue every year. But they're liberating their patron saint from German Catholics.

I have no idea, frankly. They werent big stories over here, for whatever reason.

Arright, arright. Who started this thread anyways?