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 Post subject: Sovereign Citizens
PostPosted: Sun Feb 19, 2012 3:04 pm 
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Shurf Mack says that donations totaled $100,697. Then he says:
Quote:
Las Vegas Conference Report

While we did not reach our financial goals, we went ahead with the conference, bringing all we could afford to. As it turned out, the conference was attended by approximately 115 sheriffs from across the nation, plus a good number of others who attended at their own expense. Please see this Last Vegas Conference 2012 Press Release for details.

Surely Shurf Mack would not lie. Apparently, most of the shurfs in attendance were hidden behind the bodies of the shurfs who have offices near Spudnut franchises. I was very glad to see that no Connecticut Sheriff chose to accept the invitation. On the other hand, there are no Sheriffs in Connecticut.

From the public press release, a lesson in How to Win Friends and Influence People:
Quote:
Oddly missing from the attendees was our own Sheriff John Hanlin. Sheriff Hanlin was present at a Liberators11 Meeting in December along with Sheriff Gil Gilbertson. Hanlin promised to go if the funds were raised. Once he was notified that his way was paid, sheriff Hanlin declined to attend. It was his decision to seek advice from County Council regarding the event and other issues that Hanlin was advised against attending the convention. Although unfounded & improper as the advice was, Sheriff Hanlin chose to abide by it. This conduct, which could easily be construed as cowardly and insecure; indicates that Sheriff Hanlin is not willing to take his Oath of Office seriously. An elected official who hides behind the advice of a lawyer and does not understand their Authority and independence in relation to checks and balances set out by our founding fathers has no place in the office of Sheriff. What will happen when they come to take unlawfully take our children, or our property, or our guns? Will Sheriff Hanlin have to consult with county council then before protecting the people’s inalienable constitutionally guaranteed
rights then? The Sheriff answers to one body and one body only, THE PEOPLE.

This press release appears to have been picked up by no known newspaper.

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 Post subject: Sovereign Citizens
PostPosted: Thu Feb 23, 2012 9:49 am 
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Sheriff Mack speaks on trespassing at the historic convention in Las Vegas, the 10th Amendment, and the Bill of Rights in general.


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"Someone should tell Mrs. Reagan that young people -- not even young people on drugs -- are not the ones responsible for the major problems besetting the world!" John Irving, A Prayer for Owen Meany: A Novel, p. 370.


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 Post subject: Sovereign Citizens
PostPosted: Sun Feb 26, 2012 2:48 am 
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Not to worry, we're being protected...

www.youtube.com Video from : www.youtube.com

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  • My friends, it is solidarity of labor we want. We do not want to find fault with each other, but to solidify our forces and say to each other: “We must be together; our masters are joined together and we must do the same thing.”
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 Post subject: Sovereign Citizens
PostPosted: Sun Feb 26, 2012 2:49 am 
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Including the Militia!

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  • I know that there are no limits to which the powers of privilege will not go to keep the workers in slavery.
  • My friends, it is solidarity of labor we want. We do not want to find fault with each other, but to solidify our forces and say to each other: “We must be together; our masters are joined together and we must do the same thing.”
  • Pray for the dead, and fight like hell for the living.
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 Post subject: Sovereign Citizens
PostPosted: Sun Feb 26, 2012 5:20 pm 
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Getting that DHS report on domestic terrorism suppressed has not had the desired effect:

UPI.com February 24, 2012 FBI: Sovereign citizens a domestic threat
Quote:
U.S. authorities say they have increased their focus on so-called sovereign citizens, a movement that believes it can use armed force to resist police.

Followers of the notion believe the United States is under martial law, the dollar is worthless after the U.S. Treasury went off the gold standard and some constitutional amendments are invalid, the Los Angeles Times reported Thursday.

The FBI said members of the movement have killed six police officers since 2000. A shootout in West Memphis, Ark., in 2010 left four people dead, including two officers in one of the more deadly clashes.
...
Studies by the Homeland Security Department and the National Counterterrorism Center listed the sovereign citizen movement alongside Islamic extremists and white supremacists as major threats to the United States, the Times reported. More than 100,000 people have aligned themselves with the movement, said the Southern Poverty Law center, which tracks domestic terrorists and hate groups.

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 Post subject: Sovereign Citizens
PostPosted: Tue Feb 28, 2012 11:09 am 
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Georgia House committee forwards bill to take on sovereigns:

http://tpmmuckraker.talkingpointsmemo.c ... fpnewsfeed

Is this legislation constitutional?

And as far as I'm concerned, there's not much difference in the legal frivolity engaged in by birthers and sovereigns. If this law stands up, could similar legislation be enacted to restrict birther activities? Or will we just have to depend on the courts to act swiftly and decisively to put them in their place (like in Alabama)? :-

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 Post subject: Sovereign Citizens
PostPosted: Tue Feb 28, 2012 3:19 pm 
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Shagnastie wrote:
Georgia House committee forwards bill to take on sovereigns:

http://tpmmuckraker.talkingpointsmemo.c ... fpnewsfeed

Is this legislation constitutional?

And as far as I'm concerned, there's not much difference in the legal frivolity engaged in by birthers and sovereigns. If this law stands up, could similar legislation be enacted to restrict birther activities? Or will we just have to depend on the courts to act swiftly and decisively to put them in their place (like in Alabama)? :-

If Congress could pass and the President sign the NDAA, why not?

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 Post subject: Sovereign Citizens
PostPosted: Tue Feb 28, 2012 3:35 pm 
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Shagnastie wrote:
Georgia House committee forwards bill to take on sovereigns:

And as far as I'm concerned, there's not much difference in the legal frivolity engaged in by birthers and sovereigns. If this law stands up, could similar legislation be enacted to restrict birther activities? Or will we just have to depend on the courts to act swiftly and decisively to put them in their place (like in Alabama)? :-


There's a huge difference. These public officials that have had these liens filed against them have had their property, finances and credit tied up and adversely affected and some times, the cases take years to settle. The bither lawsuits are annoying and a waste of court time and resources, but that's far from forcing a small town official into to bankruptcy due to liens against his property.

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Research shows that 87.666 per cent of all statistics are made up.


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 Post subject: Sovereign Citizens
PostPosted: Tue Feb 28, 2012 10:43 pm 
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One of the tax avoidance Sovereign Citizens seems to be claiming that SCOTUS has agreed to hear his case. Could this be true?
Quote:
Rod Class Gets Go Ahead To File In The U.S. Supreme Court
In His Ongoing Action Against The IRS !
Rod's IRS case has been going on since 2009 and has finally
reached the point (court) of last resort. The case involves
actions of the IRS against David Lee; Buess of Ohio.
Rod's argument is NOT that "taxes are unconstitutional, etc."...He
maintains that the IRS uses Fraudulent Tactics that go against their
specific written procedures (codes, rules, regulations, etc.) for
Collection, etc. !

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"Someone should tell Mrs. Reagan that young people -- not even young people on drugs -- are not the ones responsible for the major problems besetting the world!" John Irving, A Prayer for Owen Meany: A Novel, p. 370.


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 Post subject: Sovereign Citizens
PostPosted: Tue Feb 28, 2012 10:48 pm 
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Getting the go ahead to file is a lot different that actually getting heard. Many file; few are heard.

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Quote:
Research shows that 87.666 per cent of all statistics are made up.


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 Post subject: Sovereign Citizens
PostPosted: Tue Feb 28, 2012 11:05 pm 
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TollandRCR wrote:
One of the tax avoidance Sovereign Citizens seems to be claiming that SCOTUS has agreed to hear his case. Could this be true?
Quote:
Rod Class Gets Go Ahead To File In The U.S. Supreme Court
In His Ongoing Action Against The IRS !
Rod's IRS case has been going on since 2009 and has finally
reached the point (court) of last resort. The case involves
actions of the IRS against David Lee; Buess of Ohio.
Rod's argument is NOT that "taxes are unconstitutional, etc."...He
maintains that the IRS uses Fraudulent Tactics that go against their
specific written procedures (codes, rules, regulations, etc.) for
Collection, etc. !


I suppose he can take it any place he likes. The conference on whether to hear it or not might be pretty humorous, though.


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 Post subject: Sovereign Citizens
PostPosted: Tue Feb 28, 2012 11:17 pm 
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TollandRCR wrote:
One of the tax avoidance Sovereign Citizens seems to be claiming that SCOTUS has agreed to hear his case. Could this be true?
Quote:
Rod Class Gets Go Ahead To File In The U.S. Supreme Court
In His Ongoing Action Against The IRS !
Rod's IRS case has been going on since 2009 and has finally
reached the point (court) of last resort. The case involves
actions of the IRS against David Lee; Buess of Ohio.
Rod's argument is NOT that "taxes are unconstitutional, etc."...He
maintains that the IRS uses Fraudulent Tactics that go against their
specific written procedures (codes, rules, regulations, etc.) for
Collection, etc. !


You do not have the required permissions to view the files attached to this post.

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Birtherism is so ridiculous that I no longer feel obligated to treat proponents w/slightest degree of respect or civility


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 Post subject: Sovereign Citizens
PostPosted: Tue Feb 28, 2012 11:33 pm 
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True. In fact, later in an extremely messed-up article that is basically an advertisement for Rod Class and his services, the author says
Quote:
There is, however, no guarantee that the Supreme Court will hear this
case, but it could happen ! We doubt that the Supremes have heard
Rod's argument before, so you never can tell ! It's the endgame of a
very long strategy !

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"Someone should tell Mrs. Reagan that young people -- not even young people on drugs -- are not the ones responsible for the major problems besetting the world!" John Irving, A Prayer for Owen Meany: A Novel, p. 370.


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 Post subject: Sovereign Citizens
PostPosted: Wed Feb 29, 2012 11:18 am 
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Shagnastie wrote:
Georgia House committee forwards bill to take on sovereigns:

http://tpmmuckraker.talkingpointsmemo.c ... fpnewsfeed

Is this legislation constitutional?


I don't see why not. Litigation is privileged, but outright fraud is not. Filing phony liens against people is and always has been illegal.

Unfortunately, the problem with tolerating the paper terrorism of "sovereign citizen" criminals and parasites is not that there is some absence of laws under which they could be prosecuted, but the reluctance of authorities actually to prosecute these vermin and put them behind bars where they belong. Their tactics, such as fake liens and terrorist threats, are already covered by existing laws.

While it would be nice to shut down the lien fraud, sovcits will just switch to some new fraudulent tactic if some particular tactic of theirs starts sending a lot of them to prison.

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 Post subject: Sovereign Citizens
PostPosted: Wed Feb 29, 2012 12:51 pm 
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Thanks, Loh. That's the line of logic I was following.

Just needed certification ... authentication ... raised seal ... whatever. ;)

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 Post subject: Sovereign Citizens
PostPosted: Wed Feb 29, 2012 2:40 pm 
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A Legal Lohengrin wrote:
Shagnastie wrote:
Georgia House committee forwards bill to take on sovereigns:

http://tpmmuckraker.talkingpointsmemo.c ... fpnewsfeed

Is this legislation constitutional?


I don't see why not. Litigation is privileged, but outright fraud is not. Filing phony liens against people is and always has been illegal.

Unfortunately, the problem with tolerating the paper terrorism of "sovereign citizen" criminals and parasites is not that there is some absence of laws under which they could be prosecuted, but the reluctance of authorities actually to prosecute these vermin and put them behind bars where they belong. Their tactics, such as fake liens and terrorist threats, are already covered by existing laws.

Loh also small and especially southern communities have limited law enforcement and financial resources to do so. It may be a matter of manpower and money. Then again some law enforcement seem to be in on the scam. Their professional obstructions are difficult to overcome.

While it would be nice to shut down the lien fraud, sovcits will just switch to some new fraudulent tactic if some particular tactic of theirs starts sending a lot of them to prison.

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"QUALES ILLIC HOMUNCULI!" - laughed Nostradamus, foretelling the appearance of birthers.

"Your politics have no relation to morals."-
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 Post subject: Sovereign Citizens
PostPosted: Tue Mar 06, 2012 4:11 am 
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In an undated post, Sovereign Network News declares
Quote:
Legal Notice for Agents of the Crown
This week, some of our fellow Americans published a Notice for all agents of the crown, and its included US Corporation.

Either the notice itself has been published before (to no avail) or the rhetoric is well worn. It rests upon the hooey of the "original" 13th Amendment, which bars anyone "with a title of nobility" from holding public office in the U.S. Attorneys admitted to the bar are bearing titles of nobility even if they choose not to designate themselves as "Esq.", because they owe their allegiance to the Crown through the BAR association. It also notes that all laws are copyrighted, which forces citizens to use the services of attorneys. Then it gets into forced vaccinations, fluoridation, Freemasonry (Masons apparently never get traffic tickets), black robes, and the Theory of Vile Toadies. They are going to turn all prisoners loose and arrest all those who deserve arrest. But there is still a chance:
Quote:
We the People who are Beings of Light, children of our heavenly
Creator who is not bankrupt, are taking back our responsibilities and
taking over. We are creating a world without man-made parasites. Even
as you read this we are … phasing you out. You cannot turn back
this tide.

Members of the BAR, here are your choices: A.) Come into the Light; or
B.) go into the Light. You very dark ones face un-creation or the Hell
planet — you will not be missed – either as a target or as a thought.

Last week the same site announced that Timothy Geithner had been arrested.

There are people who believe and act upon these beliefs. They are not conventionally right wing, and they are certainly not Libertarian. What they are is deluded. Deluded people bear watching.

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 Post subject: Sovereign Citizens
PostPosted: Tue Mar 06, 2012 1:27 pm 
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Keith Thompson has been discussed here before. He is "famous" for a video called "Judge bows to Sovereign."

Well, after his court incident he decided to apparently go off the deep end and stop paying his mortgage. The bank apparently repossessed and he was arrested for trespassing.

Also what may be of interest is this CBC news investigation of the Freeman-on-the-land movement in Canada and it's potential for violence compared with the Sovereign Citizen movement in the states. It features an interview with a major "guru" Robert-Arthur: Menard.

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 Post subject: Sovereign Citizens
PostPosted: Tue Mar 06, 2012 1:40 pm 
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About 15 years ago my lawfirm was retained to evict squatters from residential real property, often houses that were vacant and for rent. It was a frustrating process since squatters in possession were able to stave off trespassing complaints and insist on the full panoply of protections which California affords to tenants who allegedly overstay their leases. In the end they get evicted, but they burn time and money in the meantime. Self-help directed at these leeches may be the best option.

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 Post subject: Sovereign Citizens
PostPosted: Thu Mar 08, 2012 9:31 pm 
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Found this article while looking for b-ball scores. Interesting.

http://abcnews.go.com/m/story?id=15876417&sid=81

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 Post subject: Sovereign Citizens
PostPosted: Fri Mar 09, 2012 4:45 am 
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Maru wrote:
Found this article while looking for b-ball scores. Interesting.

http://abcnews.go.com/m/story?id=15876417&sid=81

http://abcnews.go.com/US/sovereign-citi ... 1nDAnnhcRZ

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  • I know that there are no limits to which the powers of privilege will not go to keep the workers in slavery.
  • My friends, it is solidarity of labor we want. We do not want to find fault with each other, but to solidify our forces and say to each other: “We must be together; our masters are joined together and we must do the same thing.”
  • Pray for the dead, and fight like hell for the living.
—Mother Jones


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 Post subject: Sovereign Citizens
PostPosted: Fri Mar 09, 2012 1:35 pm 
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Quote:
Study: Hate of Obama fuels 755% growth in extremist groups

These groups are becoming more and more aware as they watch the primary season unfold that Obama is fairly likely to win and some of them are having meltdowns over this,” Southern Poverty Law Center senior fellow Mark Potok told Raw Story. “They’re looking at four more years under a very hated black president — hated by them. So, we’re seeing signs of real anger over that. People saying we’re at war already, saying go out and buy AK-47s and hollow-point bullets, get tools to derail trains.”



http://www.rawstory.com/rs/2012/03/09/study-hate-of-obama-fuels-755-growth-in-extremist-groups/

:|

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 Post subject: Sovereign Citizens
PostPosted: Fri Mar 09, 2012 1:36 pm 
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*double post, not sure how*

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 Post subject: Sovereign Citizens
PostPosted: Fri Mar 09, 2012 2:12 pm 
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Nightline had a seven minute segment on them last night (3/08).

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 Post subject: Sovereign Citizens
PostPosted: Fri Mar 30, 2012 10:06 pm 
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Quote:
Anti-government 'sovereign movement' on the rise in U.S.
By Kevin Johnson, USA TODAY

TRINIDAD, Texas – Gary Thomas will never forget the letter he received in early 2000. It was from John Joe Gray, a suspect in a felony assault case, offering a not-so-subtle warning to the area's chief criminal investigator: He had no intention of answering charges that he had attacked a state trooper.

"What he said was this: 'If y'all come to get me, bring body bags,' " said Thomas, now a local justice of the peace.

Thomas remembers the message clearly, not because of its unvarnished threat, but because — after 12 years — Gray, who doesn't acknowledge the authority of any government, continues to dare police to come and get him.

Sequestered on a 50-acre, wooded compound in East Texas since jumping bail more than a decade ago, Gray and his clan have effectively outlasted the administrations of four local sheriffs, all of whom have decided that John Joe's arrest is not worth the risk of a violent confrontation.


remainder:
http://www.usatoday.com/news/nation/sto ... m292lfw1yt


pretty scary stuff.

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