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PostPosted: Sat Feb 25, 2012 10:56 am 
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Curious Blue wrote:
The election board member who got really ticked off at Orly for holding up a gift tax form and calling it "income tax" is Daniel A. Dumezich, who is an expert TAX lawyer and former CPA. (In case you were wondering why he became so enraged at the mischaracterization of one an IRS form). He's a Republican -- he's the one who is also Romney's state chair but refused to recuse himself on the Santorum challenge.

I am probably oversensitive on this point after three-plus years of hearing the birthers say Obama has "refused" to release papers and so forth. To my interpretation, a refusal can only come after a direct request. (I may be wrong about that.) In Obama's case, there is no record of any such request, either from a private individual, or by order of any court or agency, reaching Obama personally -- and thus no refusal. Just because someone under a swamp fan in some basement wants somebody to do something, doesn't mean that when they don't, they have "refused."

In this case, it seemed to me Dumezich declined to recuse himself. A nit, to be sure -- and probably a negligible one at that, since he concluded the exchange by saying "...'cause that wasn't going to happen." So it was clear that if the party HAD requested recusal, he WOULD have refused.

On a side note, it was perfectly clear to me that the various sidebars on recusal, and Riordan's actual recusal for the Mike Pence non-event, indicated how well prepared the members were. They had clearly previewed all the cases, understood who would appearing, what the general issues and complaints would be, etc.


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PostPosted: Sat Feb 25, 2012 10:59 am 
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Adelante wrote:
I don't know what to call it, but Orly isn't capable of civilized human response. Maybe that's a mental disorder of some kind. Not that I care. She is evil, mean and dishonest. Fuck her, to put it gently.

Not something I would want to do, personally. In the act of lovemaking, I have this awful image of her bleeting out "Okay, okay, let me feenish!" And, it's not okay at all.

:lol:


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PostPosted: Sat Feb 25, 2012 11:02 am 
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Adelante wrote:
Indiana Star

Quote:
While the hearings over Wallace and Lugar were cordial, the hearing over Obama's eligibility to be president quickly devolved into a testy exchange between commission members and Orly Taitz, the California attorney who has become nationally infamous for her single-minded pursuit challenging Obama.

Friday, she argued that the president's surname isn't really Obama, he isn't a "natural-born citizen," and he has stolen his Social Security number.

She and two Hoosiers -- Edward Kesler and Karl Swihart -- who challenged Obama's eligibility demanded that the commission enter a default judgment against the president because he did not attend Friday's hearing to rebut their charges. The commission voted 4-0 against that.

When Taitz accused the commission of a cover-up, Dan Dumezich, the Merrillville Republican who is chairman of the commission, told her that if she was disrespectful one more time, "your butt is going to be gone."

She didn't get ejected. But the challenge to the president did.


I see Gerry Triple Chin and Kilgore Trout are commenting there already.


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PostPosted: Sat Feb 25, 2012 11:11 am 
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Foggy wrote:
I'll try not to be so grumpy today. It really was a spectacular smackdown, and I'm enjoying it again today.


I was very disappointed in the troll. I did react finally. You gave him support and hinted to take it easy on him. However, he abused your endorsement and continues shit on the board. Not that shit can't be cleaned up. It is that shit is easier to clean if it isn't there in the first place.

He may be a hell of a guy - but he is definitely NOT friend Foggy. :oops: :oops: :oops:

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PostPosted: Sat Feb 25, 2012 11:13 am 
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Chilidog wrote:
borealis wrote:
"Failed To Appear In An Adminstrative Court Again Today. Instead Of Issuing A Default Ruling Against Obama For His Failure To Appear, The Motion For A Default Ruling Was Flatly Denied. In Addition To Their Letting Obama Off Scott Free, The Ballot Challenge Was Unanimously Denied. This Is Totally UNACCEPTABLE! We Need To Revolt Against This Media Black Out! We Must Help The Tape Of This Hearing To Go Viral!" ORYR comment.


They just don't get it. This was not an ALJ court. These are possibly the dumbest people on the face of the earth.


I don't think that having the video(tape? what century is this?) go viral is going to have the effect that they think it will.


Hmm, mebbe I should help them " going viral " since this is the worst performance yet. The brifers can actually see where the money isn't going. :-

Edit: Tape? Remember what we are dealing with, old white men who don't like black folks. They remember the early 50's, 40's, and 30's the Golden time for the white male, and scream the world isn't supposted to be this way (that MMMMMulticultural word). I also was waiting for someone to bring up Kodak 8mm film.

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PostPosted: Sat Feb 25, 2012 11:14 am 
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Would an elections board give any time whatsoever to those who believe in the Illuminati and the Sekrit Skull and Bones groups and their sekrit meetings to take over the world, The Bilderberg conspiracy stuff, the occultist groups, and other such conspiracies.

Cuz I can finds lots of 'evidence' online about these groups and tie anybody to them. And I can 'prove' that anybody was a spy for the CIA. And maybe went to Mars. Oh wait, those last two are Obama. :roll:

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PostPosted: Sat Feb 25, 2012 11:17 am 
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It is that shit is easier to clean if it isn't there in the first place.


Absolutely we can moderate every post and only allow what the mods and Foggy approve. No problem.

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PostPosted: Sat Feb 25, 2012 11:18 am 
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esseff44 wrote:
She lies about the 'listing' of 'Soebarack' Soebarkah as a last name on SAD passport documents.
Indeed:
In Indiana, O RLY wrote:
in Mr. Obama's mother's passport records he is listed under last name Soebarkah. ... You have no legal right to put on the ballot an individual under last name that is not even his. Who are you putting on the ballot? Mr. Obama or Mr. Soetoro or Soebarkah?

...under Freedom of Information Act that were received passport records of Miss Stanley Ann Dunham, deceased mother of Mr. Obama, showing -- and you have it in your packet -- that in her passport records he is listed under last name Soebarkah. So this is not the last name of Mr. Obama.

In this context I think it's worth being reminded of what the members would have seen if they had referred to her pile-o'-crap she called "evidence":

Image

(Happens to be my current avatar.)

Even setting aside the provenance, relevance, and admissibility of the document itself, and even setting aside the fact that the entry is CROSSED OUT (so it cannot in any sense be considered "listed" on the record in the first place), under no conceivable interpretation is the "last name" shown anything other than "Obama."

I find this kind of bald lie simply incomprehensible. And the birthers -- who apparently were taught in 5th grade (along with Vattel) that anything screeched in a Russian accent by a crazed California dentist is absolute gospel -- simply repeat it as fact. When, of all the lies, it is arguably the most bald. Orly even says "you have it in your packet." And it's simply not there. At all.

](*,) ](*,) ](*,) :evil:


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PostPosted: Sat Feb 25, 2012 11:20 am 
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From an ORYR commenter:

Quote:
The reason we have courts and hearings is so that disputes can be impartially and fairly settled. If there is justice and fairness then there is a chance both winner and loser may go home in peace.

That is a promise of civilization. That is justice.

But when hearings or trials are rigged and corrupt, there will not be peace.

In a fair trial, the loser may not be happy but will accept an adverse decision. But in a travesty like this, the goal is not justice -- it is to publicly violate and victimize the loser. Only a saint could accept this treatment without a deep, unremitting anger and distrust transcending the original issues.

The Indiana board members betrayed their public trust as impartial decision makers. They have poisoned their own nest. They have made their world a worse place than it was yesterday.


Comments and sentiments like these are why, I think, some of us can get pretty riled in conversations like the one yesterday. Birthers, particularly Orly's, are pushing this idea that our very system has been corrupted. But it hasn't. The proceeding yesterday was no more evidence of their insane talking point than any other proceeding has been.

There was no corruption or bias. At worst there was frustration.

They want the uninformed to distrust the entire system, to only trust them, the givers of "information". This might not be a detail like the ones we usually debunk, but it's just as important to me.

Birthers, there's no evidence of corruption. None.

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PostPosted: Sat Feb 25, 2012 11:21 am 
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verbalobe wrote:
In this case, it seemed to me Dumezich declined to recuse himself. A nit, to be sure -- and probably a negligible one at that, since he concluded the exchange by saying "...'cause that wasn't going to happen." So it was clear that if the party HAD requested recusal, he WOULD have refused.

On a side note, it was perfectly clear to me that the various sidebars on recusal, and Riordan's actual recusal for the Mike Pence non-event, indicated how well prepared the members were. They had clearly previewed all the cases, understood who would appearing, what the general issues and complaints would be, etc.


I'll note that I've attended lots of meetings of this sort. I have never attended a meeting where one of the commissioners did NOT openly disclose a potential conflict of interest. Anyone on an election commission has probably been appointed there. The main appointment method leads to an evenly divided panel of Republicans and Democrats.

In Indiana, an even split between the partisans leads to upholding the original decision, which is usually that the candidate remain on the ballot. In general, if the challengers fail to prove their case, the voters get to choose their candidate on election day. What happened yesterday is that the law was applied. For some reason, that appears to be a controversy on this board.

That, the application of the law, is exactly what happened yesterday, with regard to Obama, Santorum and (as I found later after fleeing inclement weather) Lugar.

I am frankly flabbergasted that there is any controversy about this, on this board of all places.

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PostPosted: Sat Feb 25, 2012 11:28 am 
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realist wrote:
Quote:
It is that shit is easier to clean if it isn't there in the first place.


Absolutely we can moderate every post and only allow what the mods and Foggy approve. No problem.


If that is your option realist....My remark was directed at the frustration where Foggy interceded for someone who promptly screwed him. I don't like it when folks I consider friends or at least acquaintances get deliberately screwed blue. He acted like a birfer - ie would not listen to about 20 lawyers who do this shit for a living. Trolling a trolling over the ocean blue.
Isn't that what some Obots do? Get a name and sit on it for 6 months, then strike when the iron is hot on one of the birfer blogs. MO of both sides in this issue.

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PostPosted: Sat Feb 25, 2012 11:29 am 
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A Legal Lohengrin wrote:
verbalobe wrote:
In this case, it seemed to me Dumezich declined to recuse himself. A nit, to be sure -- and probably a negligible one at that, since he concluded the exchange by saying "...'cause that wasn't going to happen." So it was clear that if the party HAD requested recusal, he WOULD have refused.

On a side note, it was perfectly clear to me that the various sidebars on recusal, and Riordan's actual recusal for the Mike Pence non-event, indicated how well prepared the members were. They had clearly previewed all the cases, understood who would appearing, what the general issues and complaints would be, etc.


I'll note that I've attended lots of meetings of this sort. I have never attended a meeting where one of the commissioners did NOT openly disclose a potential conflict of interest. Anyone on an election commission has probably been appointed there. The main appointment method leads to an evenly divided panel of Republicans and Democrats.

In Indiana, an even split between the partisans leads to upholding the original decision, which is usually that the candidate remain on the ballot. In general, if the challengers fail to prove their case, the voters get to choose their candidate on election day. What happened yesterday is that the law was applied. For some reason, that appears to be a controversy on this board.

That, the application of the law, is exactly what happened yesterday, with regard to Obama, Santorum and (as I found later after fleeing inclement weather) Lugar.

I am frankly flabbergasted that there is any controversy about this, on this board of all places.

I am not aware of any controversy on this point, nor did I mean to imply I wished to generate any.

As far as I could tell everything about the recusals and non-recusals was perfectly appropriate. I was merely making a tiny, tiny comment on CB's choice of the word "refuse" over an alternative like "decline." But nor did I infer that CB would have preferred recusal.

Unless I've missed something, there's no controversy.


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PostPosted: Sat Feb 25, 2012 11:30 am 
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listeme wrote:
Quote:
In Orly's case, she clearly has the capacity to discern right from wrong.


A good example of this is how quickly she shifted to "I'm not here as a lawyer or a challenger" mode when questioned yesterday. Some of the fruitcakes (technical term) would have just bulled ahead insisting they were a lawyer or whatever they think they are, because they're consistent in their incorrect beliefs.

I wondered what some of the true believers thought when they saw or heard her shift her story like that. Did it ping somewhere in their brains?


Offtopic :
Do we want to go apunning right from wrong????

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Or... you can follow the money...
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PostPosted: Sat Feb 25, 2012 11:34 am 
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Quote:
What seems to be required is, briefly, that the person has to grow up. Sometimes a psychiatrist or psychologist can help in this; sometimes a stay at a treatment center can help. I imagine that a friend, pastor, or rabbi could also help.

I agree and as well agree that Orly will not permit this. Worse for her, I doubt she has anyone in her life who would try to do this. Her narcissism feeds her "useful"/"traitor" classification of people, which quite likely makes it impossible for her to have people in her life willing to take risks to save her.

Orly does have to grow up. She lives in a fantasy world where she is a beautiful, skillful heroine, lawyer, dentist, mother, Taekwondo blackbelt, breathlessly fighting singlehandedly the greatest threat to freedom the United States of America has ever faced. She has surrounded herself with sycophants who have encouraged her to spend what is probably tens of thousands of dollars perpetuating this fantasy. She dare not look at herself and see her the ugly, lying, spiteful, and hateful person who has made a laughingstock of any real accomplishments she has made for the sake of the adulation of a bunch of mainly racist conspiracy theorists. The sad part of it is that she's likely going to run herself into the ground for the sake of this pathetic adulation.

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PostPosted: Sat Feb 25, 2012 11:58 am 
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verbalobe wrote:
Unless I've missed something, there's no controversy.


Not to be a jerk, but the moderator of the board just announced a week-long absence.

I don't know what that's about, and for that reason, am considering announcing my own indefinite absence too. Also.

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PostPosted: Sat Feb 25, 2012 12:02 pm 
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Loh, quick question...

In reviewing the video of the hearing, I noted that, as the challenges to Obama were called, there was the standard statement made to the effect that "the submissions from the parties are in the binder and have been accepted into evidence." Of course, the significance of that full statement was lost in the ensuing discussion regarding "evidence" being "admitted" (as opposed to "lodged,").

We've made some fun of the fact that, once again, Oily lost to an empty chair (and certainly, neither President Obama nor counsel were present). But what I don't know--and I cannot find in the public records of the Indiana Election Commission--is information as to whether or not President Obama filed any response (or something of the nature of a strike and dismiss) to the challenges.

Do you know, or have a way of determining, if there was any response filed by Obama/counsel which would have then been placed in the record (and the binders) prior to the Commission meeting and considered by the Commissioners?

Thanks in advance for any insight you may be able to supply.

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PostPosted: Sat Feb 25, 2012 12:03 pm 
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The Cleveland Clinic seems to have been writing about Orly:
Quote:
Narcissism is a term used to describe a focus on the self and self-admiration that is taken to an extreme. The word “narcissism” comes from a Greek myth in which a handsome young man named Narcissus sees his reflection in a pool of water and falls in love with it.

Narcissistic personality disorder is one of a group of conditions called dramatic personality disorders. People with these disorders have intense, unstable emotions, and a distorted self-image. Narcissistic personality disorder is further characterized by an abnormal love of self, an exaggerated sense of superiority and importance, and a preoccupation with success and power. However, these attitudes and behaviors do not reflect true self-confidence. Instead, the attitudes conceal a deep sense of insecurity and a fragile self-esteem. People with this personality disorder also tend to set unrealistic goals.

Quote:
What are the complications of narcissistic personality disorder?
People with narcissistic personality disorder might abuse drugs and/or alcohol as a way of coping with their symptoms. The disorder also might interfere with the development of healthy relationships with others.

What is the outlook for people with narcissistic personality disorder?
The prognosis depends on the severity of the disorder.

A community blog by and about persons with this personality disorder notes:
Quote:
The prognosis for a classical narcissist (grandiosity, lack of empathy and all) is decidedly not good as far as long-term, lasting, and complete healing. Moreover, narcissists are intensely disliked by therapists.

LM K told us about this disorder sometime back in the Stone Age. I think we are very close to seeing the denouement that the community cited above discusses:
Quote:
Very much like in the physical world, change is brought about only through incredible powers of torsion and breakage. Only when the narcissist's elasticity gives way, only when he is wounded by his own intransigence - only then is there hope.

It takes nothing less than a real crisis. Ennui is not enough.

Being jailed for trespassing when she tries to storm the Rally for Liberty of the Liberty Caucus at the San Jose Hyatt Regency SJC Hyatt Regency San Francisco Hyatt Regency SFO Hyatt Regency "Exact room location will be posted here once it is available." might produce that crisis.

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PostPosted: Sat Feb 25, 2012 12:07 pm 
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A Legal Lohengrin wrote:
verbalobe wrote:
Unless I've missed something, there's no controversy.

Not to be a jerk, but the moderator of the board just announced a week-long absence.

I don't know what that's about, and for that reason, am considering announcing my own indefinite absence too. Also.

I'm sorry. I thought you meant specifically in regard to the electoral commission members' conflicts of interest and recusals. Of course I am aware of controversy otherwise, though IMO it's more of the tempest-in-a-teapot variety. If it has affected certain FB members more than others, for whatever reasons (and I think Foggy listed those on his own behalf very openly and clearly, including his health circumstances), then that's more than unfortunate.

If there's anything I can do to help, Loh (or Foggy, or anyone), you know how to reach me.


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PostPosted: Sat Feb 25, 2012 12:26 pm 
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I'm on pins and needles! Orly's got more explosive evidence!! (Malware warning)

Quote:
Web address for IN hearing, some explosive information about IN commission is coming, can’t disclose yet, it is big though

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PostPosted: Sat Feb 25, 2012 12:28 pm 
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Web address for IN hearing, some explosive information about IN commission is coming, can’t disclose yet, it is big though

Posted on | February 25, 2012 | No Comments


:-$ http://www.orlytaitzesq.com/?p=32127 :-$

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PostPosted: Sat Feb 25, 2012 12:29 pm 
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Hah! Beat ya!

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PostPosted: Sat Feb 25, 2012 12:30 pm 
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You did :mrgreen:

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PostPosted: Sat Feb 25, 2012 12:34 pm 
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BFB wrote:
I'm on pins and needles! Orly's got more explosive evidence!! (Malware warning)

Quote:
Web address for IN hearing, some explosive information about IN commission is coming, can’t disclose yet, it is big though


Well, sure, because Orly only brings "most explosive evidence." :lol:

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PostPosted: Sat Feb 25, 2012 12:36 pm 
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Well, I'm ready to give odds that she has discovered that two of the members of the commission -- the woman who dissed her evidence and the older guy in the center who warned her about perjury are .... ready? Democrats! In fact, the woman is the legal counsel for the Democratic Party and the man is the chairman of some section of it.

So that means they were BIASED!! How explosive can you get? Oh where is justice in our court system?

(Ignore the fact that the vote against her was 4-0 -- the Republicans were RINO thugs, of course).

Any takers?

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PostPosted: Sat Feb 25, 2012 12:38 pm 
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I believe that at least one member will have "ties" to Iran or some other Muslim boogeyman.

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