The entire internet implodes from the shock, and the world as we know it ends.

Seriously, I think that's one of those "if a tree falls in the woods" type deals - interesting hypothetical to contemplate, hard to answer in the real world.

I think it was not immediately apparent that he was trolling. People were patiently explaining why the panel treated the written and oral submissions as not being admissible. He was having none of it and then people started to put him on ignore.

I know it will be impossible for Pambly--or Oily--to believe, but the challenges to President Obama before the Indiana Election Commission today was not the BIG story for the media. Two of the candidates (Wallace for the republican nomination for governor; Santorum for the republican nomination for president) challenged were the focus of the media (and, not surprisingly, the people of Indiana). The outcome of these challenges (Wallace-out and Santorum-in) is what the post-hearing media reports (and there have been many) are about. The media left because they had the stories they needed and came to get...the stories that their readers actually cared about. As with anywhere else, I'm sure there are birthers in Indiana, but it's my impression that when folks in Indiana in the factories and on the farms are gathered around the water cooler or the water pump, it's not birferism they're gabbing about, and comparatively nobody gives a flying shit about Orly Taitz.

Agreed. About the only thing that seems clear about Orly Taitz's mental condition is that she has a personality disorder known as narcissism. Some see evidence of paranoia. I don't think that anyone has suggested that there is a medical treatment for Taitz's disorder. What seems to be required is, briefly, that the person has to grow up. Sometimes a psychiatrist or psychologist can help in this; sometimes a stay at a treatment center can help. I imagine that a friend, pastor, or rabbi could also help.

I see no chance of Taitz permitting that. She has probably been lying for a long time. The best thing is to be done with her, to take away her platforms, to deny her the ability to smear the President in public forums. Declaring her a vexatious litigant would go some distance towards achieving that.

Leave me out of EVERYBODY. Although I can understand the frustration that some have felt about Balak's questions, I see nothing that definitively identifies him as a birther. What I see is a member of our forum who doesn't understand why the commissioners were so dismissive of Orly's evidence. The short answer is, all four commissioners are attorneys and they understand what constitutes evidence and immediately recognized that Orly had none. They are familiar with the body of law that defines relevance, authentication, and hearsay.

No one took the time to provide the long answer to Balak, to explain to a layman precisely why Orly's evidence is immaterial and inauthentic and hearsay -- until Woodworker's very patient and very thorough post. It is exactly the response I was planning to write. I hope that Woodworker's explanation satisfies Balak's concerns.

I will add only that due process was afforded to the challengers today. Due process requires that the government must provide an opportunity to be heard, but what constitutes a "hearing" varies according to the venue. Due process is a flexible concept. There is a continuum, and what is required for due process in a criminal adjudication (where a full evidentiary hearing is required before a defendant can be deprived of his liberty or life) is not necessarily the same as for an administrative adjudication (where summary action based on review of written submissions may be sufficient). Due process requires an objective consideration of the facts, but it does not require the adjudicator to accept the facts as true nor does it guarantee that the person making the appeal will get the outcome that he/she wants.

O'rly has always struck me as the spoiled little child. Tantrums and all. Are we allowed to bet in here? I'd like to wager that O'rly was raised as the spoiled little special one.

Thanks for taking the time to listen and listen well pass the point that Orly was Fennnnnished and writing it all down. You deserve a medal (as well as ear drops to soothe the pain from exposure to the high pitch screeching of Orly).

To be fair to the guy, he and the commission had been accused of whatsahooey already, they'd had to remove a guy for shouting at them (while Orly egged him on basically), and now she was back to accusing them. I might have said harsher words than "butt" at that point.

I get your point, but I have NOTHING but sympathy for the guy. I'm glad he lost his temper a little. (I'd feel differently if he'd been a judge, I guess.)

I went back and looked at her letters to various Indiana folk prior to the hearing; she was a pill from the very first one, including accusing the state of defrauding folks because SHE gave them the wrong forms to send for challenging. She is ramping up the threaty accusation stuff, and I thought she was already at her peak.

I agree with pretty Hektor and cute Litlebritdifrnt2. I'll raise the cherry and sprinkles and add some whipped cream and nuts.

I really couldnt care less about Balaks questions. Its over and done, and yes I ignored him. *flex* Start a threat on judicial behaviour if you guys want to keep talking about it.

The point is that was one of the most delicious smackdowns of Orly Taitz I've ever seen. I honestly think if people had done that to her from the beginning she would have given up birtherism long ago. Before she was famous and getting respect and listened to by Judjes! She was like Matlock! Now she is a tired woman, desperatly trying to stay famous and no-one is paying her any respect!

Really I'm not finding it in my heart to have much sympathy anynore. But one thing is certain. She looked like utter and total shit today. Eveb her hair was drooped and unkempt, and we know that Orly always wanted to look her best before.

If it were a judge in a court of law, O'rly would have been in contempt of court the second time she made her accusations. I thought the commissioner was within his rights when he scolded her, butt and all.

"Failed To Appear In An Adminstrative Court Again Today. Instead Of Issuing A Default Ruling Against Obama For His Failure To Appear, The Motion For A Default Ruling Was Flatly Denied. In Addition To Their Letting Obama Off Scott Free, The Ballot Challenge Was Unanimously Denied. This Is Totally UNACCEPTABLE! We Need To Revolt Against This Media Black Out! We Must Help The Tape Of This Hearing To Go Viral!" ORYR comment.


They just don't get it. This was not an ALJ court. These are possibly the dumbest people on the face of the earth.

Excellent work!!!! Thank you for taking the time to put together such a comprehensive post. I have one suggestion. I think that you and Whatever4 and whoever else needs to be involved and include this in the special reports section. I think it would be a great addition to all the great and extremely valuable work that Whatever4 and others have done.

(the last smiley is just because I love it and I feel so good after seeing such a magnificent Orly slapdown.)

That would be me.

Frankly, I found Balak's posts today so utterly incomprehensible that I couldn't even imagine a non-malicious explanation.

However, if due process in administrative hearings is actually that difficult to understand, I recommend Judge Friendly's article on the subject. Henry Friendly, Some Kind of Hearing, 123 U. Pa. L. Rev. 1267 (1975). An administrative hearing is NOT a trial, isn't intended to be one, never was one.

However, even such a hearing has minimal evidentiary rules, and I fail to understand how anyone can fail to understand that a pile of literal garbage does not qualify as evidence even by the relaxed rules of an administrative hearing.

I haven't listened to the .mp3 because my audio on my computer sucks eggs worse than a court reporter, but given that Malihi made direct reference to Ankeny in his recommendation, there's evidence that at least ONE lawyer/challenger is aware of it, and if she tries to claim otherwise, I'm pretty sure that she made reference to Malihi's reliance on Ankeny in at least one of the documents she's filed since then.

(If this has already been pointed out, please excuse me - I'm several pages behind and wanted to post this before I forgot about it....)

Catching up, reading and listening to the hearing... had to jump in on this comment of Loh's:



THAT'S the kind of detail we the Fashion Watchers are looking for! Go, Loh!!

Really. Not a snarky thing at all.

I think MichaelN was shunned faster. Foggy had a long post on "ignoring" Birthers and general idiots. Perhaps "Balak" read it and was inspired.

He noted that Orly wore her lawyer suit, but neglected to look at her shoes. Come on guys, that is just as important.

Orly once again looked like she needed to root touch up on the hair.

I was not about to comment on anyone else's shoes, when I decided to forego my pretty but uncomfortable Cole Haan shoes in favor of Calvin Klein near-sneaker hybrids that are kind of loafer-like.

I hope whatever shoes Orly wore were really uncomfortable. I didn't notice, though. My shoes were very comfy. Sorry.

Just reloaded the video, hopefully boosted the audio and changed the caption

What I liked is that at just about every birther hearing there has been a Fogbow observer. This must really piss off Orly and the rest of them.
The birthers are all FOGBLOWN
Regards .............Dick

I notice several of them say she didn't get a chance to authenticate the evidence. They (and Orly) seem to be under the impression that "authenticate" means "to state that one's belief is that they are pretty damn sure it's authentic."

I know y'all know this, but it grates on me.

That was excellent and informative. Thanks for doing that.

^^^^^^