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PostPosted: Sun Jan 29, 2012 12:20 pm 
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Foggy wrote:
RUDY!!
snip


Gosh, I love me some Rudy.Nobody does batshit crazy quite like him.

Can't wait to see his reaction when the decision is released.

-xx

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PostPosted: Sun Jan 29, 2012 12:31 pm 
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Tarrant wrote:
Chilidog wrote:
I just had to share this.

Quote:
Nathanael,

Especially in an administrative court, uncontested testimony is the truth.

ex animo
davidfarrar


By this logic, given that Jablonski wasn't present, Farrar could have taken the stand and claimed the sky was green, purple unicorns live in his garage, and Obama was born on Mars, and the judge would have to take such things as fact.

The judge will certainly lend greater weight to uncontested facts but there is still a burden present. Furthermore, much of what Farrar is talking about aren't questions of fact but those of law, and the judge doesn't have to take anybody's assertions of what the law is as valid. If Farrar gets on the stand and says the law says murder is OK, the fact that no defense says "Actually it isn't" doesn't mean it is. The law is what it is.



^^^^^^^^ What Tarrant said. The court is not obligated to find the testimony credible or give it any weight.

Plus, even if the judge accepts certain uncontroverted testimony as true, there is still the question of relevance. True: A credit report contains "1890" as one of two birth dates associated with Obama's SSN. Relevance to whether Obama was born in the United States? None. True: When Linda Jordan illegally accessed e-Verify, it returned an error code suggesting a mismatch between Obama's SSN and his name. Relevance to whether Obama was born in the United States? None.

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PostPosted: Sun Jan 29, 2012 1:01 pm 
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BFB wrote:
Foggy wrote:
RUDY!!
snip


Gosh, I love me some Rudy.Nobody does batshit crazy quite like him.

Can't wait to see his reaction when the decision is released.

-xx



why wait? (skip to 9:40)


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PostPosted: Sun Jan 29, 2012 1:03 pm 
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BFB wrote:
Foggy wrote:
RUDY!!
snip


Gosh, I love me some Rudy.Nobody does batshit crazy quite like him.

Can't wait to see his reaction when the decision is released.

-xx


I expect some of his trademarked screaming.


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PostPosted: Sun Jan 29, 2012 1:07 pm 
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Foggy wrote:
To me, the amazing thing is that he ISN'T as "self-important" and "arrogant" as they think he is.

One's view of "self-importance" is relative. When they have no "self-importance" of their own, almost everyone else is viewed as being "self-important".

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PostPosted: Sun Jan 29, 2012 1:09 pm 
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Zeke - that is the first rule of Pissantism.

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PostPosted: Sun Jan 29, 2012 1:11 pm 
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aarrgghh wrote:
BFB wrote:
Foggy wrote:
RUDY!!
snip


Gosh, I love me some Rudy.Nobody does batshit crazy quite like him.

Can't wait to see his reaction when the decision is released.

-xx



why wait? (skip to 9:40)




Except everything is mislabeled. Since his cashiering from the Army Dr. or MR. Lakin is no longer allowed to reference to the rank he held before committingSeppuku (only a self-death threat). in front of Col Lind and his court marshal.

It violates some kinds of federal rule or law somewhere....It seems the conservatives make stupid laws then promptly ignore them.

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PostPosted: Sun Jan 29, 2012 1:23 pm 
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Sterngard Friegen wrote:
It also looks as if the court reporter is talking into a "gas mask."


IANASECR, but

I thought that's how they sucked the eggs.

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PostPosted: Sun Jan 29, 2012 1:33 pm 
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Sterngard Friegen wrote:
It also looks as if the court reporter is talking into a "gas mask."


She's huffing nitrous in a valiant, self sacrificing effort to be able to comprehend what Obly is blathering about.

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PostPosted: Sun Jan 29, 2012 2:04 pm 
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GreatGrey wrote:
Sterngard Friegen wrote:
It also looks as if the court reporter is talking into a "gas mask."


She's huffing nitrous in a valiant, self sacrificing effort to be able to comprehend what Obly is blathering about.

*** win ***


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PostPosted: Sun Jan 29, 2012 2:16 pm 
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GreatGrey wrote:
She's huffing nitrous in a valiant, self sacrificing effort to be able to comprehend what Obly is blathering about.

You're saying that we need to recruit Demi Moore as our O'rly interpreter?

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PostPosted: Sun Jan 29, 2012 2:26 pm 
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Ruh roh. The birthers refuse to learn from their past errors. Consider this brilliant plan to make ex parte lobbying contact with Judge Malihi, posted at Dr. K(H)ate's View:

Quote:
Here ia a partial email I received,Please consider it :
Patriots,

There is an urgent need to send messages of support to Judge Malihi, the judge who heard the Georgia Obama Ballot Challenge on 1-26-2012. We need to send Judge Malihi a note of thanks for his courage and willingness to stand for the US Constitution.

Here is Judge Malihi’s web sitefor a better presentation that I have copied below. Send your appreciation to:

Contact:
Valerie Ruff for Judge Malihi
Case Management Assistant
vruff@osah.ga.gov
Tel: (404) 651-7595
Fax: (404) 818-3751

http://www.osah.ga.gov/judges-dir-detai ... ID=mmalihi

Call, email respectful appreciation. Some have said it’s essential for Judge Malihi to sense that “we the people” are behind him and his action. So let’s remove any doubt the Judge might have of the strong support we’re offering.

Harry Riley


I say, GO FOR IT! \:D/ \:D/ \:D/ \:D/ \:D/

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PostPosted: Sun Jan 29, 2012 2:46 pm 
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Ogly posted the rest of the press conference:



I especially like the part where she misspells her website as "o-r-l-y-t-i-t-z-e-s-q.com" at 2:01.

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PostPosted: Sun Jan 29, 2012 2:53 pm 
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Sterngard Friegen wrote:
Zeke - that is the first rule of Pissantism.


Offtopic :
Stern, as you often remind us when we insult one of god's innocent creatures by comparing disgusting humans to them, I must come to the defense of pissants which are useful creatures. They are just defending their nests when they shoot stream of formic acid to ward off enemies.

Impressive little things as seen here: formica rufa in action

http://www.educatedearth.net/video.php?id=3587

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PostPosted: Sun Jan 29, 2012 3:06 pm 
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jtmunkus wrote:

I especially like the part where she misspells her website as "o-r-l-y-t-i-t-z-e-s-q.com" at 2:01.


I liked the part in the previous one where she was stage managing, showing Susan (soon to be Felon) Daniels where to stand.

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PostPosted: Sun Jan 29, 2012 3:19 pm 
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Apologies if this has already been answered, but...

Do we know why/how Farrar got involved in this? I don't recall him being a huge player before this challenge. Most birthers are happy little keyboard commandos, so I'm just curious as to what pried him out of his chair.

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PostPosted: Sun Jan 29, 2012 3:22 pm 
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Quote:
Kawaii Kookanaga or whatever wrote:
And if that is the case, it means Malihi is clearing the decks for either a default judgment against the president, or the implementation of a legal remedy of some sort for Obama’s self-important refusal to appear or even respond to the proceeding with counsel.


Ruh-roh. Don't let poor Rudy see the letter from Arpaio's lawyer telling Orly that Arpaio is far too important to appear! He'll have flaming pinwheels for eyes.

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PostPosted: Sun Jan 29, 2012 3:32 pm 
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Love the way she gets combative with the reporter beginning at 04:08. That would make a good 20-second bite on the evening news. Nothing like insulting the press and refusing to answer their questions to woo them to your cause. Ragging on America's sweetheart Katie Couric was a nice touch. :-bd

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PostPosted: Sun Jan 29, 2012 3:32 pm 
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A Legal Lohengrin wrote:
It's not really going to come down to the strict rules of evidence. This isn't some bad photocopy of some obscure document nobody has ever heard of. It is a document that has been publicly confirmed by the head of the Department of Health of Hawaii, to the point the DOH has publicly and repeatedly verified the information in it, examined by fact-checking organizations, and made public in a number of formats. It's not an example of "it's on some obscure url on some unreliable website."

Even if it hadn't been introduced, the facts it demonstrates are subject to judicial (or at least administrative notice).

Also, the authenticity of the document is only necessarily to lead to a near-conclusive presumption of the validity of the information in the document. The burden is only preponderance. Even if it weren't entitled to that presumption, that wouldn't mean it would have no weight at all, but only that weight that the fact-finder gave it.

Given that it was the only piece of evidence of substantial probative value in the case, other than perhaps the immigration documents, and nothing whatsoever was done to call its authenticity into question, there's no way to find facts contrary to the only evidence: that is, Obama was born in Hawaii in 1961 to a citizen mother and a non-citizen father.

I think this would be good enough to have some probative value in court. The other parties had the opportunity to object based on something like the best evidence rule, but it would not have been sustained and in any event they waived the issue. Administrative bodies often rely on even less probative materials, like taking a photocopy of someone's driver's license or voter registration card, or their testimony about when they moved in to their aunt's house, without even checking it with the original records.


Again, IANAL, but I can't see how the birfer lawyers stipulation one way or another on the validity of the documents makes them more or less credible. They fly on their own wings, IMO, because these lawyers are anything but experts on the authenticity of these e-copies of copies of putative originals.

I don't know that this helps Orly in her case but I don't see how it hurts her either. The fact that they were introduced and are on the record hurts her, not that the other birfer lawyers says they's reel.
[-(

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PostPosted: Sun Jan 29, 2012 3:32 pm 
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Too bad that Sheruff Jos'e couldn't take some time out from defending himself against federal charges and just trying to stay in office to show up at the one ring circus.


Poor Orly.....(sniff, snicker)

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PostPosted: Sun Jan 29, 2012 3:42 pm 
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Plutodog wrote:
Again, IANAL, but I can't see how the birfer lawyers stipulation one way or another on the validity of the documents makes them more or less credible. They fly on their own wings, IMO, because these lawyers are anything but experts on the authenticity of these e-copies of copies of putative originals.

Obama's COLB is evidence of his Hawaiian birth. A photocopy of it is normally inadmissible because it isn't authentic, i.e., it lacks a raised seal.

In a real court proceeding, the parties could stipulate to authenticity, i.e., they agree it is authentic despite the lack of a raised seal. (The lawyers' expertise (or lack thereof) is unimportant -- they are agreeing to not dispute the issue of authenticity.)

In an administrative proceeding, the evidentiary rules are lessened, and an ALJ might consider evidence that hasn't been authenticated.

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ASSUME ANYTHING WRITTEN HERE WILL END UP ON TAITZ'S SITE AND FACEBOOK. AND JEROME CORSI WILL POST SCREENSHOTS TO WND. AND WILL BE FILED BY A BIRTHER AS AN EXHIBIT IN FEDERAL COURT. NOW HAVE FUN!


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PostPosted: Sun Jan 29, 2012 3:43 pm 
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Stern has pointed out Orly's misapprehension that raising a reasonable doubt is her best strategy as an attorney, and esseff44 has pointed out that the court is not her audience. She is a propagandist and that alone. All the evidence I have seen suggests that Orly intends only to raise enough "reasonable doubt" that some people will decide not to vote for President Obama, for whatever part of her pack of lies and stupidity they choose to believe.

So the question is whether we are following an optimum strategy for making her fail. For some citizens, demonstrations of the lack of evidence and the fallacies of her arguments before courts and not-quite-courts are needed. TFB is great at that. Others probably pay more attention to Colbert than they do to the whole of her dismal legal record. Colbert is outstanding. Still others only attend to rumors posted on the Web, particularly to "strong rumors" (whatever that means). TFB and a number of private blogs linked from TFB do a great job of destroying the rumors if the people read them with understanding. How about the rest of America? Are the mass media enough to reach them and teach them? I doubt it. That assumes that people pay attention to them. It also assumes that the mass media do their job. Rachel does it very well for an audience of less than three hundred thousand viewers.

Maybe it's the President's campaign that has the job to fight the rumors, but that seemed to fan the flames in 2008. The President should not stoop to denying rumors except in humorous ways, as at the Al Smith Dinner in 2008:
Quote:
"Who is Barack Obama? Contrary to the rumors you have heard, I was not born in a manger. I was actually born on Krypton and sent here by my father Jor-El to save the Planet Earth. Many of you know that I got my name, Barack, from my father. What you may not know is Barack is actually Swahili for 'That One.' And I got my middle name from somebody who obviously didn't think I'd ever run for president. If I had to name my greatest strength, I guess it would be my humility. Greatest weakness, it's possible that I'm a little too awesome."

Whether that reaches the notorious grandmother in Orange County is questionable. She might see that humor as sacrilegious.

Is there anything more that we on TFB can do to destroy the rumors that Orly tries so fervently to spread? What is the best strategy for fighting back against propaganda?

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PostPosted: Sun Jan 29, 2012 4:11 pm 
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TollandRCR wrote:
Is there anything more that we on TFB can do to destroy the rumors that Orly tries so fervently to spread? What is the best strategy for fighting back against propaganda?


Yes. Encourage Orly to become more screechy and propose ever wilder accusations. The more outrageous the better. We should exploit that. She already comes across as a nutter. Get Joe Scarborough to start making fun of her. He draws a large audience. He occasionally touches on the subject of birthers with sarcastic wit.

OC Grandma was looking for an excuse not to vote for Obama anyway. The rest of the electorate is not going to buy Orly's crock that the POTUS is an identity thief.

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PostPosted: Sun Jan 29, 2012 4:22 pm 
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TollandRCR wrote:
Stern has pointed out Orly's misapprehension that raising a reasonable doubt is her best strategy as an attorney, and esseff44 has pointed out that the court is not her audience. She is a propagandist and that alone. All the evidence I have seen suggests that Orly intends only to raise enough "reasonable doubt" that some people will decide not to vote for President Obama, for whatever part of her pack of lies and stupidity they choose to believe...What is the best strategy for fighting back against propaganda?


I think Orly Taitz is her own worst enemy and the best fight against her propaganda might just be to give her more opportunities to speak. Most people ready to believe what she and other birthers are selling already hated the president because he's a democrat or because he's black or because he has a furriner's name. Perhaps she has managed to convince a few who might otherwise have voted for the president, but I would not doubt that her insane and unprofessional behavior has also convinced a few who were on the fence that the rumors are nothing but the rantings of a bunch of loons.

Anyone interested in whether the birther claims are true can readily find the information disproving them at places like Fogbow and Native Born Citizen and even in the mainstream media. If they choose not to avail themselves of those resources, then they are only interested in finding confirmation of what they "know" is true.

I think her ultimate defeat in this Georgia debacle will do a lot to undermine her propaganda, because she claimed a hearing on the "evidence" would give her the win, and when a judge (even an ALJ) and a REPUBLICAN SoS turn their backs on that "evidence," or a higher court makes it clear that she will never prevail, she is going to become more of a joke than she is already.

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PostPosted: Sun Jan 29, 2012 4:28 pm 
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I'm not sure this comment has any applicability to a Kangaroo Kourt proceding, but I'm hesitant to use the term "stipulation" to describe what went on when the COLB & LFBC were introduced on Friday. A stipulation is an agreement between opposing parties. AFAIK, one can't stipulate something unilaterally. IMO, the correct term here is "concession", not stipulation.

Also, where there are multiple parties, a stipulation only binds the parties who agree to it. This happens occasionally when two defendants present different defenses. One defendant may, in agreement with plaintiff, stipulate to a fact for the purposes of narrowing the issues in order to fast-track their particular defense. The other defendant, not having agreed to the stipulation, can procede to contest the fact and, assuming that the stipulation was properly qualified, the plaintiff will not have conceded the fact for the purposes of the alternative defense.

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