Falsehoods unchallenged only fester and grow. To join, email foggy at thefogbow dot com.


All times are UTC - 5 hours [ DST ]




Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 26 posts ]  Go to page 1, 2  Next   
Author Message
PostPosted: Fri Nov 11, 2011 8:47 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Sun Mar 22, 2009 11:17 pm
Posts: 14851
Location: New England
Occupation: Professor of Sociology
Child sexual abuse is a far larger social issue than just Sandusky and Penn State. It occurs on a scale that most of us do not realize. It occurs to boys as well as to girls, a fact often denied. The victims often deny it occurred.

Dr. George Reardon specialized in endocrinology, especially developmental problems of the very young. He was hired at St. Francis Hospital in Hartford in 1963 and became head of the hospital's endocrinology program in 1978. In 1987, a brother and sister, whom he had sexually abused at ages 5 and 7 while still practicing in Albany, filed suit against him. Two other charges were also filed by his victims, and the Hartford County Medical Association followed up in 1993 with its own charge on behalf of a fourth victim. Reardon's license to practice medicine and hospital privileges were suspended in 1993. Although his license and hospital privileges were reinstated later in the year, the child protection measures ordered by the State board seemed to have been so onerous that he retired from the practice of medicine in 1993. The FBI mounted an investigation; the hospital said the charges were without merit. Reardon died in 1998.

In 2007, the current owner of what had been Reardon's home opened a basement wall to discover thousands of items of child pornography, including nude photographs of Reardon's patients. West Hartford police tried to identify his victims. Thirty-two suits were settled in May, 2011, by the hospital and the Hartford Archdiocese.

It took years for his victims to come forward. It is certain that some of his victims have yet to come forward. That is because child sexual abuse is far too often a secret held by both the abuser and the victim.


_________________
I always have a quotation for everything-- it saves original thinking. -- Lord Peter De'ath Bredon Wimsey as reported by Dorothy L. Sayers


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Sat Nov 12, 2011 12:33 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Sat Nov 20, 2010 8:04 am
Posts: 7157
The problem is in scope as well. I've heard that typicly a Pedophile (by the way I hate that term. It litterally means "lover of children" its what Pedophiles call themselves. I would prefer pedovore - meaning someone who consumes children) will go though 200 or so children before being caught. Its also like what I said before, Lions and Zebras. Any job or positions which gives power over and access to children will be a magnet for these people.

Plus they will play the system to protect themselves. Any institution, secular or religious, will be vunerable to covering this up, because there is literally no way that they will look good when the pedovore is exposed. No matter what, people will ask how you let this predetor get access to kids. Its easier to brush it under the carpet, believe the tearful perpetrator when he begs you to forgive him and that he will never do it again. Plus, its always a small number of people, so how much damage can they do? Better to just sit on it...

Remember, Pedovores want access to kids, and they will play the system anyway they can to ensure they get access to them again.

_________________
"Rarely has the court seen such an unrelenting pursuit of a patently frivolous argument undertaken with such complete indifference to the merits."


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Sat Nov 12, 2011 4:16 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Sun Mar 22, 2009 11:17 pm
Posts: 14851
Location: New England
Occupation: Professor of Sociology
The Guardian November 10, 2011
"Joe Paterno, a legend undone by the culture of silence: Anger over the Penn State coach's firing is missplaced. It's the pattern of campus cover-ups of sex abuse that should enrage us."

Quote:
It is tempting to blame Penn State's problems on football, but this story raises a much graver specter. American universities have a long history of failing victims of rape and sexual harassment. Universities and colleges tend to act as states unto themselves and prefer to "manage" these explosive matters "in house". Progress in changing those attitudes has come slowly, and at great cost.

Twenty-one years ago, Congress passed the Clery Act to stop exactly the sort of cover-up reported at Penn State. Jeanne Clery was a first-year student at Lehigh University when she was raped and murdered in her dorm room by another student. Her family worked tirelessly to change approaches to campus crime – to replace secrecy with transparency. Universities and colleges are now required by law to maintain a publicly accessible record of crimes reported to its police department.
...
The difficulty that people face in coming forward as victims and as witnesses of sexual assault stems from broader cultural attitudes regarding sex. Victims are shamed and stigmatised. Those who complain are treated as problems, and face (illegal) retaliation. Campus officials would prefer everyone keep quiet – until they are confronted by the brutal reality of what that silence enables.
...
Those who confront this kind of abuse of power make a positive contribution to their community. Those who choose not to fail each and every one of us.

_________________
I always have a quotation for everything-- it saves original thinking. -- Lord Peter De'ath Bredon Wimsey as reported by Dorothy L. Sayers


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Tue Nov 15, 2011 10:15 am 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Sun Mar 22, 2009 11:17 pm
Posts: 14851
Location: New England
Occupation: Professor of Sociology
Suranis said
Quote:
Any job or positions which gives power over and access to children will be a magnet for these people.

Acworth Patch [a publication unknown to me] Penn State Scandal 'An American Problem' by Lauren Sausser.
Quote:
Former Baltimore Colts player Joe Ehrmann doesn't mince words.

Without hestiation (sic), this Maryland resident says churches and athletic programs are two of the most dangerous environments for children in America today.
...
"It's an American story. ... We've broken the social contract with children in this country. Here you've got an accustation (sic) of a man having sex in a shower and no one takes it to the next level?" Ehrmann asked. "That's an American problem. That's not just a Penn State problem."
...
"It's a wake-up call for every youth program, for every parent of an athlete. What are the policies, procedures and guidelines?" Ehrmann asked. "Ninety percent of them have no guidelines, no policies, no procedures. We have no protective barriers. That is a welcome sign to predators."

Ehrmann said that the Penn State scandal is primarily a story about a university trying to protect its reputation and its football program. It is not clear what Ehrmann meant by "the next level." All of the actors known to us so far took things to their supervisors -- McQueary, Paterno, Curley, Schultz, Spanier. That proved to be insufficient, as none of those people acted responsibly. I would hope that Ehrmann meant "take it to the police."

Incidentally, what -- if anything -- the Penn State campus police knew and did is still murky. Schultz supervised the campus police, which may account for Spanier's actions regarding him. If it turns out that the campus police (or just their chief) also knew of McQueary's charges, that will prove to be a major problem for Penn State.

_________________
I always have a quotation for everything-- it saves original thinking. -- Lord Peter De'ath Bredon Wimsey as reported by Dorothy L. Sayers


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Tue Nov 15, 2011 3:07 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Thu Sep 30, 2010 2:02 pm
Posts: 15184
Location: FEMA Camp Pi PO Box 3.14159 Okanagan, WA 98840
Occupation: Drone Maintenance @ "Drones RUs" - FAA Licensed and Certified "Drone Service Center©" Call (206) 622-0460 to schedule routine maintenance, warranty, and repairs. Emergencies - If we tell you, we have to bill you.
It is already an incredible problem for Penn State and will be more disgusting as the investigation goes one.

_________________
Image ImageImage

NOTICE:
This post is a natural product. The slight variation in spelling
and grammar enhance its individual character and beauty and in no
way are to be considered flaws or defects.


Remember, Orly NEVAH disappoints!


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Tue Nov 15, 2011 3:42 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Sun Mar 22, 2009 11:17 pm
Posts: 14851
Location: New England
Occupation: Professor of Sociology
FoxNews "Penn State, Second Mile Not the First to be Embroiled in a Sex Abuse Scandal"
Quote:
“As much as the Penn State situation has shocked the nation, the more shocking fact is that the veil of secrecy is more commonplace than we probably realize,” said Justin Leto, a Miami-based civil trial attorney who has handled numerous sex abuse cases.
...
“The thing these organizations all neglect to recognize is that eventually the truth will come out,” Leto said. “And when it does, the years they have spent protecting the predators and themselves will end in far greater consequences than if they would have done what is right from the start.

“The interest of the employer should never supersede the moral, ethical and legal obligation to ensure that no child is subject to this type of unthinkable abuse.”

Examples:

Lon Harvey Kennard Sr., Village of Hope, 15 years to life in prison after confession of 43 counts of sex abuse and exploitation.

Douglas Perlitz, Project Pierre Toussaint School for Homeless Children in Cap-Haitien. 20 years in prison, found guilty of abusing eight homeless children in Haiti.

Donald Fitzpatrick, clubhouse manager Boston Red Sox, came to light in 1991 but happened in early 1970s and was reported to Red Sox management by a victim in 1971. Sox took no action except fired victims who came forward. $100,000 settlement. Pleaded guilty to four counts of sexual battery on a child in 2002. "In 2003, the team settled a $3.15 million lawsuit with seven victims in Florida."

_________________
I always have a quotation for everything-- it saves original thinking. -- Lord Peter De'ath Bredon Wimsey as reported by Dorothy L. Sayers


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Tue Nov 15, 2011 5:00 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Sat Nov 20, 2010 8:04 am
Posts: 7157
Oh you have no idea. You would have thought that in Ireland after all the alligations of Cherical Sexual Abuse that they would be all over pedovors wouldnt you? Uh, No

http://www.sceala.com/phpBB2/irish-forums-24245.html

Quote:
Detectives in Ireland are said to be contacting Nepalese authorities over a growing scandal about a top Irish poet's sexcapades in the Himalayan nation with underage boys.
Cathal O'Searcaigh, 52, who is one of Ireland's best known poets whose poems are taught in schools, has been accused by a filmmaker he befriended of having sex with under-16 boys in Nepal.
The openly gay poet was introduced to Nepal's cultural circle about five years ago by expatriate Indian poet in Kathmandu, Ram Doss Sharma, who also translated the Irish poet's poems into Nepali.
O'Searcaigh, who calls Nepal his 'spiritual home' and adopted a Nepali teen, Prem, more than a decade ago, is a frequent traveller to Nepal where he was said to be funding the education of some Nepali boys.

The controversy erupted after he invited filmmaker Neasa Ni Chianain to Nepal to make a documentary on him.
Though the film 'Fairytale of Kathmandu', which is to be screened at the Dublin International Film Festival Feb 18 and 21, is said to be free of any allegations, Ni Chianain said that during the shooting, she was shocked by some of the things she saw.
For example, a young boy reportedly said he was asked to leave O'Searcaigh's room 'because he could not complete the sex'.
A fuming O'Searcaigh said he had done nothing wrong.
'I wasn't coercing them into having sex,' he said. 'The door was open all the time.'


That was in 2008. What happened after that was a complete whitewash. The guy had Senetor David Norris, a noted gay campaigner, sprining to his defense. There was pages written about the great work he was doing educating poor boys in Nepal and how the sex was consentual. Yeah, I'm sure sex between you and a guy who is funding your education. He had the Irish Language lobby springing to his defense as he writes in Irish. Basically the story ran for 2 weeks and was buried.

This was written in august this year. The context was David Norris running for president and saying that when he was young he would have loved for an older man to come and show him the sexual ropes, as it were.

http://www.ionainstitute.ie/index.php?id=1599
Quote:
Speaking on Newstalk, Irish Times and Mail on Sunday columnist John Waters (pictured) said that the coverage of Senator David Norris' request for clemency in respect of for his former partner who was convicted of the statutory rape of a 15 year old boy and the coverage of sex abuse by Catholic priests were in complete contrast.

This contrast, he said, was also in evidence in respect of the media treatment of Irish language poet Cathal O'Searcaigh, who has also been accused of engaging in sexually exploitative relationships.

...

He said: “What credibility do these people have now, when they continue to defend this man, who has defended a paedophile in a legal procedure, and has also sought to use his influence as a public figure to change our minds with regards to our attitudes to paedophilia.

“What credibility do the Irish Times have, writing editorials about Bishop Magee or any other bishop, if it continues to defend David Norris. None! None!”


More at the link.

The hypocracy and double standard has been right up my nose for 20 years.

_________________
"Rarely has the court seen such an unrelenting pursuit of a patently frivolous argument undertaken with such complete indifference to the merits."


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Wed Nov 16, 2011 8:56 am 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Sun Mar 22, 2009 11:17 pm
Posts: 14851
Location: New England
Occupation: Professor of Sociology
There may be salient differences in how boys and girls react to child sexual abuse. Among other things, most abused boys do not come forward with their story until later in life. This article repeats the one-in-six boys statistic that I have used elsewhere; it is not a well-documented statistic. The fact is that we really do not know, because the boys will not tell us. For girls, the statistic is one-in-four.

"Sandusky case triggers pain well beyond campus: As adults, victims suffer nightmares, anger, anxiety from childhood abuse"
Quote:
“Men aren’t supposed to be victims. Men are supposed to be strong,” said Jim Hopper, clinical instructor of psychology at Harvard Medical School. “A man says I’m not a real man, because I let someone do this to me. I should have been tougher. Even after years of therapy they say this.”
...
Their reluctance to talk about abuse is partly to blame for the perception that sexual abuse of boys is rare, Gartner said.
...
[A victim speaks about the Penn State case] “We identify very, very strongly with these boys. And we identify with the poor handling of this. To think there are 15-year-old cases that have never been dealt with," Brown said. “It kicks off the (post-traumatic stress) into high gear — nightmares, flashbacks, extreme depression. It’s been some of the worst few days of my life emotionally.”
...
“Before the (Catholic) church scandal, even in professional meetings, people rolled their eyes, feeling that (sexual abuse of boys) happened rarely,” said Gartner. “Now, nobody seems to be saying it doesn’t happen. It does give people courage to come forward and disclose and get help, and that’s positive.”

_________________
I always have a quotation for everything-- it saves original thinking. -- Lord Peter De'ath Bredon Wimsey as reported by Dorothy L. Sayers


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Wed Nov 16, 2011 9:50 am 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Thu Sep 30, 2010 2:02 pm
Posts: 15184
Location: FEMA Camp Pi PO Box 3.14159 Okanagan, WA 98840
Occupation: Drone Maintenance @ "Drones RUs" - FAA Licensed and Certified "Drone Service Center©" Call (206) 622-0460 to schedule routine maintenance, warranty, and repairs. Emergencies - If we tell you, we have to bill you.
It also has a lot to do with the viciousness shown homosexuals by people in general. While molested boys may and probably won't be homosexual...there is a real reluctance to admit to having participated in homosexual behavior even though it was a rape and not their desire. The fear of being labelled a homosexual or a molested boy many times is larger than the feeling toward the crime.

It is damn embarrassing for a young man/boy to be placed in a situation where there are so many heavy religious and social overtones toward same sex behavior. The child gets labelled as tainted property or "queer" even though IT IS NOT HIS FAULT!

In the late 60's the Boy Scouts didn't screen very well. A molester ended up being the scout master and molested a couple of boys in the troop. We found out after one of the kids on his baseball teams (Coach, nach!) complained to his parents. He got 20 years, but the boys have to live a lifetime with the emotional damage from the attacks. We knew who was molested - none of them became homosexuals and all have had lives that are peppered with mental issues and some went to crime acting out. Some families moved out of town & not seen again (left coast to Florida) to escape the gossip and publicity.

I am sure the devil has a special place in hell for molesters something about bending over to receive a pineapple you know where (ala "Little Nicky") (Adam Sandler movie where Hitler was getting "his".) [-o<

_________________
Image ImageImage

NOTICE:
This post is a natural product. The slight variation in spelling
and grammar enhance its individual character and beauty and in no
way are to be considered flaws or defects.


Remember, Orly NEVAH disappoints!


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Wed Nov 16, 2011 3:07 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Sat Apr 16, 2011 12:40 am
Posts: 6769
Occupation: retired
In addition to priests, coaches and boy scout leaders, here is another category we have to watch carefully. This child psychiatrist was appointed to evaluate large numbers of 'troubled children.' If they weren't troubled before his 'therapy,' they were troubled even more afterwards. It is amazing how these predators get away with it for years before discovered or reported to someone who does something about it.

http://www.sfexaminer.com/local/bay-are ... g-patients

_________________
Quote:
Research shows that 84.74358 per cent of all statistics are made up.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Wed Nov 30, 2011 12:23 am 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Sun Mar 22, 2009 11:17 pm
Posts: 14851
Location: New England
Occupation: Professor of Sociology
It is well-established that many of the residential "Indian Training Schools" in Canada were places of child abuse. The number of Indian children who were taken from their parents and have never been seen again is uncertain but is likely to be in the tens of thousands. Suits have already been filed, and settlements have been reached in some cases. However, the story continues to unfold. It has not been volunteered by the government of Canada or by the churches. It is being uncovered by the First Peoples themselves.

The oldest school in Canada was at Brantford, Ontario. It was operated by the Anglican Church. A tribe of the Mohawk people released yesterday a statement that human bones, bones of children, have been found on the school's property in a single 20 sq. ft. test dig. The tribe is barring representatives of the Canadian government and the Crown or Church of England from entry onto the site of the former school.

A 2002 CBC program sheds light on the early stages of what is now a sweeping investigation.

This was the work of teachers, missionaries, and clerics from at least four major Canadian denominations. Their crimes may dwarf the number of reported cases of clerical child abuse and child sexual abuse in the United States in the 20th century. I do not think that sexual perversion is going to be very helpful in explaining what appear to be mass murders. This is turning out to be a case of genocide perpetrated on the most vulnerable members of the tribes, crimes worthy of the Nazis.

I fully recognize that the "International Tribunal into Crimes of Church and State" is not an internationally recognized investigative or judicial body. The Truth and Reconciliation Commission of Canada has provided very similar findings. The churches themselves have apologized, while fighting law suits that could have bankrupted them. This is the 25th anniversary of the apology of the United Church of Canada. Prime Minister Stephen Harper apologized in 2008. There is no doubt whatsoever that crimes were committed under the auspices of the churches and the government. What remains to be discovered is how deeply the savages cut into the heart of the First Peoples.

_________________
I always have a quotation for everything-- it saves original thinking. -- Lord Peter De'ath Bredon Wimsey as reported by Dorothy L. Sayers


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Wed Nov 30, 2011 9:37 am 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Fri Aug 14, 2009 4:17 am
Posts: 5597
Location: between the candle and the star
Occupation: Manager, FEMA Camp 2112
mimi wrote:
jtmunkus wrote:
anudder nutter.


One of his big stories while at TWT


http://www.wanttoknow.info/890629washin ... esfranklin

Seems he quit the Washington Times and bashed them. According to them, he later begged for his job back. They didn't rehire him.


Oh wow - I remember seeing that a few years ago when the whole Jeff Gannon thing was going on, and some people were trying to connect him to the sex scandal referenced in the article. There was a point where some people were claiming he was some little kid that had been kidnapped from Iowa, I think, (in particular, the missing kids mother) and that the kid had been taken so he could be one of the kids used in the sex ring or something like that. It was so surrealistic!

_________________
I am gray...

I stand between the candle and the star
...between the darkness and the light

-- Paraphrased from "Babylon 5" created by J. Michael Straczynski

"Ignorance and prejudice and fear walk hand in hand'
-- from "Witch Hunt" by Rush on their "Moving Pictures" album.

Facebook
Shadows in Wonderland
- we stand in the sun and look back in our tracks
an image of self in grays and in blacks
laughter and joy hold us in there sweet thrall
but even in Wonderland shadows must fall


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Thu Dec 01, 2011 1:51 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Sun Mar 22, 2009 11:17 pm
Posts: 14851
Location: New England
Occupation: Professor of Sociology
esseff44 wrote:
Yes, I remember it well. The young man in question was one of a group who blew the lid off of Boy's Town and the horrible scandal linked to sexual child abuse there. ...

As for the Boy's Town side of the story, a book was written about it by one of the children's lawyers, IIRC. They were sent to prison for perjury for testifying against the local political bosses. It's a very ugly, sickening story. There was also a documentary made about it.

It is a mystery to me that I have been unaware of the Boys Town child sexual abuse scandal until now. In the 1970s I was a researcher at the Omaha facility of Boys Town. At that time, Boys Town was already expanding outside its Omaha home ("the richest square mile in the world") to provide services and homes nationwide. I was researching why kids ended up in Boys Town. By that time, the kids were mostly not orphans; they were runaway or throw-away kids.

While we were off across the lake in our own building, we did occasionally get news of happenings in the village, particularly from those research projects that were working with the kids at Boys Town. Apparently this all happened after the research program was shut down, but I remained sensitive to news about Boys Town for years because the administration (Father Hupp) did not like the results of some of the research being undertaken and forbade other research from being conducted. It was a disconcerting example of how freedom of speech can be abrogated by an employer.

Some of the news coverage of the time of the scandal refers to a cover-up of the Boys Town scandal. Father Hupp, who had retired prior to the reported events, began calling for an investigation. Nothing much seems to have happened. If all this is true, it is a larger scandal than Penn State. It was fairly successfully covered-up in the mainstream media.


_________________
I always have a quotation for everything-- it saves original thinking. -- Lord Peter De'ath Bredon Wimsey as reported by Dorothy L. Sayers


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Thu Dec 01, 2011 2:14 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Fri Aug 14, 2009 4:17 am
Posts: 5597
Location: between the candle and the star
Occupation: Manager, FEMA Camp 2112
esseff44 wrote:
As for the Boy's Town side of the story, a book was written about it by one of the children's lawyers, IIRC. They were sent to prison for perjury for testifying against the local political bosses. It's a very ugly, sickening story. There was also a documentary made about it.


It looks like there are a few books about both the Boys Town scandal as well as the whole Franklin scandal. Since it sounds like you know more about the situation, can you suggest a reliable book - or any ideas on how to estimate a book's reliability? For some reason, I've lately been fascinated with scandals, but I don't care to read stuff that's mostly speculative or based on wild-assed conspiracy theories (unless, of course, there's some reason to believe that the conspiracy might actually have existed - such as the Watergate cover-up.) Any guidance would be appreciated!

_________________
I am gray...

I stand between the candle and the star
...between the darkness and the light

-- Paraphrased from "Babylon 5" created by J. Michael Straczynski

"Ignorance and prejudice and fear walk hand in hand'
-- from "Witch Hunt" by Rush on their "Moving Pictures" album.

Facebook
Shadows in Wonderland
- we stand in the sun and look back in our tracks
an image of self in grays and in blacks
laughter and joy hold us in there sweet thrall
but even in Wonderland shadows must fall


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Thu Dec 01, 2011 2:41 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Sat Apr 16, 2011 12:40 am
Posts: 6769
Occupation: retired
Yes, the Boys' Town scandal and also the DC scandal were successfully suppressed. How many people have ever heard of Lawrence King and the Franklin Credit Union scandal? Financial misdeeds are one thing, but this went far beyond into the trafficking of children for immoral purposes. And it reached to the highest levels of government. There were not too many people willing to stick their necks out after they saw what happened to those who were trying to report on it or do something about it.

_________________
Quote:
Research shows that 84.74358 per cent of all statistics are made up.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Thu Dec 01, 2011 11:42 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Fri Aug 14, 2009 4:17 am
Posts: 5597
Location: between the candle and the star
Occupation: Manager, FEMA Camp 2112
I did some more looking at there seem to be two main books about the scandal - at least that are currently available. One is "The Franklin Scandal: A Story of Powerbrokers, Child Abuse & Betrayal" by Nick Bryant and the other is "The Franklin Cover-up: Child Abuse, Satanism, and Murder in Nebraska" by John W. DeCamp, which is the book written by one of the lawyers that you mentioned.

I'm leaning more toward the Bryant book, mainly because I usually consider accusations of satanism a big, BIG red flag - especially for anything during that era, when there were massive child abuse scandals fuelled by satanism around every corner. The tragedy, of course, is that all of those bogus cases ended up casting doubts on the real cases (almost always minus the satanic aspects, of course) that occurred. It may have been part of why it was easier for them to cover something like this up as well.

_________________
I am gray...

I stand between the candle and the star
...between the darkness and the light

-- Paraphrased from "Babylon 5" created by J. Michael Straczynski

"Ignorance and prejudice and fear walk hand in hand'
-- from "Witch Hunt" by Rush on their "Moving Pictures" album.

Facebook
Shadows in Wonderland
- we stand in the sun and look back in our tracks
an image of self in grays and in blacks
laughter and joy hold us in there sweet thrall
but even in Wonderland shadows must fall


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Thu Dec 01, 2011 11:56 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Tue Oct 26, 2010 9:56 pm
Posts: 10413
esseff44 wrote:
Yes, the Boys' Town scandal and also the DC scandal were successfully suppressed. How many people have ever heard of Lawrence King and the Franklin Credit Union scandal? Financial misdeeds are one thing, but this went far beyond into the trafficking of children for immoral purposes. And it reached to the highest levels of government. There were not too many people willing to stick their necks out after they saw what happened to those who were trying to report on it or do something about it.


I have long been suspicious of this particular set of accusations, partly because it seemingly originated in the Moonie cult's front newspaper The Washington Times. Additionally, the allegations surrounding the case were absolutely extraordinary and involved vast degrees of corruption at every level of government. Weird conspiracy theories, like trying to claim that Jeff Gannon was actually the kidnapped Johnny Gosch, appear to be beyond ridiculous.

The fact that the prosecution apparently couldn't even get an indictment from a grand jury makes me most suspicious, considering that it is practically a maxim that a grand jury would indict a ham sandwich.

I have never seen any convincing evidence for the vast, nearly ubiquitous conspiracy it would take to make this particular set of satanic cult sex allegations anything more than that, allegations.

_________________
"I no doubt deserved my enemies but I don't believe I deserved my friends." -- Walt Whitman


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Fri Dec 02, 2011 12:07 am 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Tue Jan 27, 2009 1:01 am
Posts: 23546
Location: Planet Earth (most the time)
Occupation: I'm not at liberty to say.
That's the thing. It's probably partly truth and heavy fiction.

_________________
Yes We Can! ~ Thomas Jefferson


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Fri Dec 02, 2011 12:21 am 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Sat Apr 16, 2011 12:40 am
Posts: 6769
Occupation: retired
thorswitch wrote:
I did some more looking at there seem to be two main books about the scandal - at least that are currently available. One is "The Franklin Scandal: A Story of Powerbrokers, Child Abuse & Betrayal" by Nick Bryant and the other is "The Franklin Cover-up: Child Abuse, Satanism, and Murder in Nebraska" by John W. DeCamp, which is the book written by one of the lawyers that you mentioned.

I'm leaning more toward the Bryant book, mainly because I usually consider accusations of satanism a big, BIG red flag - especially for anything during that era, when there were massive child abuse scandals fuelled by satanism around every corner. The tragedy, of course, is that all of those bogus cases ended up casting doubts on the real cases (almost always minus the satanic aspects, of course) that occurred. It may have been part of why it was easier for them to cover something like this up as well.


There is also a transcript on line of the trial Paul A. Bonacci (one of the youngsters) brought against Lawrence King. He was given a million dollar default judgement. Two hundred thousand of it was for punitive damages. One of the boys wrote an account of being brought to Bohemian Grove along with some other boys. He described one of the boys being ritually murdered. It didn't seem like Satanism was involved, but ordinary sadistic practices. Was it a true story? It's very hard to tell. What happens in Monte Rio stays in Monte Rio.

_________________
Quote:
Research shows that 84.74358 per cent of all statistics are made up.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Thu May 31, 2012 11:27 am 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Sun Mar 22, 2009 11:17 pm
Posts: 14851
Location: New England
Occupation: Professor of Sociology
Wisconsin State Journal May 25, 2012 Black Earth pastor gets 2 years in prison in child abuse case

A Dane County, WI, pastor was convicted of conspiracy to commit child abuse. He had been preaching to members of the Aleitheia Bible Church of Black Earth, WI, that the Bible prescribes corporal punishment for disobedient children. What preacher Philip Caminiti advocated was the use of wooden spoons or wooden dowels to "spank" children. This left persistent red marks or bruises, which is how Wisconsin differentiates between spanking and child abuse. Caminiti apparently advocated this concerning children as young as one-and-a-half months. Wisconsin police intervened in 2010 to put a stop to this practice.

In addition to his prison term, Caminiti will be on probation for six years, during which his contact with his own children will be limited. He is also ordered to have no contact with Aleitheia Bible Church and to have no leadership role in any church.

His brother, church elder John Caminiti, was sentenced in 2011 to a year in prison and seven years of "extended supervision" for shunning his teenage son because the son had feelings that he described as "pressure and fear." He also struck with a wooden dowel other children, including those of other members of the church, for being grumpy or disobedient.

Eight members of the church face child abuse charges. No Longer Qivering discusses the case of Lori Wick, an author of "historical Christian novels," who supposedly provides substantial financial support to the church and is one of those accused of child abuse.

The right wing and the evangelical/fundamentalist press caught on yesterday to this matter and are aghast. Free Republic has a thread, as do Infowars and The Church Report.

I am at a loss as to what I think about this. The pastor was advocating what is legally defined in Wisconsin as child abuse. This resulted in incidents perpetrated by members of the church. Other pastors (e.g., Wiley Drake) have called upon god to strike down President Obama, with no results (yet). Is that why Drake still preaches, while Caminiti sits in prison?

Where does freedom of religion end and engaging in a conspiracy to violate the law begin? According to Christianity Today, a trial judge spoke to this:
Quote:
A Wisconsin trial court judge denied a motion to dismiss charges against a convicted pastor who instructed his church members to use wooden rods to spank misbehaving children, some as young as two months old.
...
Caminiti argued the convictions violate his right to religious freedom. But Circuit Judge Maryann Sumi disagreed, stating that though Caminiti had “a sincerely held religious belief” to use a rod to discipline young children, he failed to prove Wisconsin’s child abuse statue “places a burden” on that belief.

“Scripture doesn't specify how and when the rod should be used,” Sumi ruled.

In January, Christianity Today examined arguments for and against corporal punishment, as the misuse of biblical teaching on discipline can have deadly consequences.

I do not see why what the Bible specifies and does not specify is relevant to a decision to dismiss the motion. The Bible specifies stoning to death disobedient sons; would Judge Sumi have ruled in favor of a pastor who taught that?

_________________
I always have a quotation for everything-- it saves original thinking. -- Lord Peter De'ath Bredon Wimsey as reported by Dorothy L. Sayers


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Thu May 31, 2012 11:49 am 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Tue Jan 12, 2010 6:09 pm
Posts: 4012
Location: LA,CA
Occupation: Game designer and code monkey
TollandRCR wrote:
I am at a loss as to what I think about this. The pastor was advocating what is legally defined in Wisconsin as child abuse. This resulted in incidents perpetrated by members of the church. Other pastors (e.g., Wiley Drake) have called upon god to strike down President Obama, with no results (yet). Is that why Drake still preaches, while Caminiti sits in prison?

Probably because those church members are real flesh and blood people who are following his instructions in abusing their kids.

As opposed to the imaginary being in Wiley Drake's imagination who seems to be ignoring him.

_________________
Ducktape

"Still a man hears what he wants to hear And disregards the rest." Paul Simon, The Boxer
ImageImageImage


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Thu May 31, 2012 12:08 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Sun Mar 22, 2009 11:17 pm
Posts: 14851
Location: New England
Occupation: Professor of Sociology
ducktape wrote:
TollandRCR wrote:
I am at a loss as to what I think about this. The pastor was advocating what is legally defined in Wisconsin as child abuse. This resulted in incidents perpetrated by members of the church. Other pastors (e.g., Wiley Drake) have called upon god to strike down President Obama, with no results (yet). Is that why Drake still preaches, while Caminiti sits in prison?

Probably because those church members are real flesh and blood people who are following his instructions in abusing their kids.

As opposed to the imaginary being in Wiley Drake's imagination who seems to be ignoring him.

Yet Wiley Drake or one of his ilk could inspire someone to take it into their own hands to do the word of god. Rudy came pretty close yesterday to calling for such an action. Would either of them be guilty of conspiracy if someone tried to kill the President?

_________________
I always have a quotation for everything-- it saves original thinking. -- Lord Peter De'ath Bredon Wimsey as reported by Dorothy L. Sayers


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Thu May 31, 2012 12:25 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Sat Nov 20, 2010 8:04 am
Posts: 7157
It strikes me that this is far more than a religious freedom question, but as a matter of the conflict between the triple rights of religious freedom and and freedom of expression and the right to protection under the law.

To put it further, what if someone from parts of Africa and the middle east was discovered to have practised female circumcision, and argued in court that that was part of his culture and religion? Where would you stand then? What if he argued that MALE circumcision is allowed because of Jewish and Muslim Religious beliefs, and argued that therefore female circumcision should be allowed because to do otherwise would be unfair and discrimination? What if he argued that male circumcision was accepted as it was commonplace but was just as barbaric?

(By the way I think the above argument is full of shit, I'm just throwing it out there)

And what if someone founds a new "church" with doctrine he made up based loosely on the bible that involves, I dunno, lets say feeding urine to children. Would his right to have his flock do that be protected under religious freedom even though his religion was only 2 years old? And would his right to say whatever he liked be protected under the 1st amendment? After all Human Sacrifice is in the Bible.

THis is why my European sensibilities are a little distrustful of the notion of total freedom of expression. When that comes anywhere near calling for harm to be done to people that freedom is over as far as I am concerned. Plus I see society as a unit, and wneh one part of the unit is deliberately telling lies, those lies poisons the whole society and will lead to the society fracturing eventually. And yes I'm looking at Fox News etc. The removal of the Fairness doctrine was Reagan's worst legacy.

_________________
"Rarely has the court seen such an unrelenting pursuit of a patently frivolous argument undertaken with such complete indifference to the merits."


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Thu May 31, 2012 1:07 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Sun Mar 22, 2009 11:17 pm
Posts: 14851
Location: New England
Occupation: Professor of Sociology
Suranis wrote:
...
THis is why my European sensibilities are a little distrustful of the notion of total freedom of expression. When that comes anywhere near calling for harm to be done to people that freedom is over as far as I am concerned. Plus I see society as a unit, and wneh one part of the unit is deliberately telling lies, those lies poisons the whole society and will lead to the society fracturing eventually. And yes I'm looking at Fox News etc. The removal of the Fairness doctrine was Reagan's worst legacy.

I have the same feelings and concerns. I do think our society is being poisoned by beliefs that cause harm.

An example: yesterday I posted about a West Virginia pastor who died after a snake bit him in snake-handling religious ceremonies. His father had also died from a snake bite. West Virginia has no law against this, while the surrounding states have made it illegal. Did those states violate religious freedom? I think not, but I have no idea how to draw the line.

I wonder if what some of us now see as the "crazy turn" that American evangelicals have taken dates back to this kind of religious movement? Snake handling as a part of religion is, apparently, fairly new to the U.S. According to several sources, it began in the early 20th century in Pentecostal churches. Christianity Today. It is not restricted to the U.S.; there have been snake-handling Christian cults in Europe and Asia. The WSJ says that snake-handling is a centuries-old spiritual practice, but I wonder if they are confounding worship of snakes with the dare-devil practice of perhaps some 2,500 U.S. Pentecostals today.
Quote:
"And these signs shall follow them that believe; In my name shall they cast out devils; they shall speak with new tongues; They shall take up serpents; and if they drink any deadly thing it shall not hurt them; they shall lay hands on the sick, and they shall recover." These were Jesus' last words on earth, according to Mark's Gospel (though only in the later manuscripts).

Pentecostals believe in exorcisms, speaking in new tongues, and laying hands on the sick; so why not taking up serpents? To an illiterate Tennessee preacher named George W. ("Little George") Hensley, it seemed inconsistent. So when he preached on the Mark passage one Sunday in 1910, he concluded by taking a large rattlesnake out of a box with his bare hands. He handled it for several minutes, then ordered his congregation to handle it too or else be "doomed to eternal hell."

Hensley's fame spread throughout the Appalachian region and soon caught the attention of A. J. Tomlinson, then General Overseer of the Church of God. He ordained Hensley into the denomination (though there is no record of Tomlinson handling snakes, his daughter did).

At first, most of the snakes were brought to the church by unbelievers looking for a good show. At one early meeting, hecklers threw a box full of cottonmouths, copperheads, and rattlesnakes in front of the former moonshiner while Hensley was preaching. The congregation ran out of the building, but Hensley simply bent down and picked up the snakes, as one observer put it, "like a boy would gather stovewood in his arms to carry to the house."

Hensley was repeatedly arrested, partly because he was a moonshiner in addition to being a preacher. He preached that he was persecuted for following the Bible and that outlawing snake handling would soon be followed by outlawing speaking in tongues and, eventually, "the Bible itself." He was bitten about 400 times during his "ministry."

It seems to me that West Virginia is wrong not to have outlawed this practice. On the other hand, outlawing it does not stop it. It is supposed to be a "riveting" experience to witness and to join.

_________________
I always have a quotation for everything-- it saves original thinking. -- Lord Peter De'ath Bredon Wimsey as reported by Dorothy L. Sayers


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Thu May 31, 2012 2:37 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Tue Oct 26, 2010 9:56 pm
Posts: 10413
TollandRCR wrote:
West Virginia has no law against this, while the surrounding states have made it illegal. Did those states violate religious freedom? I think not, but I have no idea how to draw the line.


Permissible laws against snake-handling would prohibit it by all people, not just based on it being a religious ceremony. And according to current Free Exercise Clause jurisprudence, a "neutral law of general applicability" does not violate religious freedom. Employment Div. v. Smith, 494 U.S. 872, 879 (1990).

_________________
"I no doubt deserved my enemies but I don't believe I deserved my friends." -- Walt Whitman


Top
 Profile  
 
Display posts from previous:  Sort by  
Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 26 posts ]  Go to page 1, 2  Next   

All times are UTC - 5 hours [ DST ]


Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 0 guests


You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot post attachments in this forum

Jump to:  
View new posts | View active topics



Powered by phpBB® Forum Software © phpBB Group