Uh-oh: the speed of light is not what we thought it was

TollandRCR · **Posted:** Sat Nov 19, 2011 11:24 pm

What is 60 nanoseconds between friends? A really big deal if two experimental results are confirmed with other methods in other facilities. Neutrinos may be breaking the speed limit.

Second experiment confirms faster-than-light particles

Quote:

A second experiment at the European facility that reported subatomic particles zooming faster than the speed of light — stunning the world of physics — has reached the same result, scientists said late Thursday.
...
Should the results stand, they would upend more than a century of modern physics.

In the first round of experiments, a massive detector buried in a mountain in Gran Sasso, Italy, recorded neutrinos generated at the CERN particle accelerator on the French-Swiss border arriving 60 nanoseconds sooner than expected. CERN is the French acronym for European Council for Nuclear Research.

A chorus of critiques from physicists soon followed. Among other possible errors, some suggested that the neutrinos generated at CERN were smeared into bunches too wide to measure precisely.

So the scientists tightened the streams of particles headed towards Italy. Same result.

The starship Enterprise is not just around the corner, but this could be revolutionary. Einstein would be thrilled at this result -- and get right to work.

It could also just be measurement error.

Piffle · **Posted:** Sun Nov 20, 2011 8:29 pm

I hadn't yet heard of this second experiment, but the idea of something moving faster than light really is a big deal.

Quote:

Among other possible errors, some suggested that the neutrinos generated at CERN were smeared into bunches too wide to measure precisely.

Ya gotta love the image of someone smearing neutrinos into bunches, don't ya? But I guess they streamlined their smearing technique for the second experiment.

Edit: Remember when the U.S. was the world leader in cutting-edge particle physics? It's a shame that we can't afford creation museums and our own super-collider. But if we don't build the creation museums, Europe's sure not going to do it for us!

Slartibartfast · **Joined:** Mon Aug 10, 2009 2:52 pm **Posts:** 1557

I'd put my money on a measurement error, but it would be cool if it isn't...

A Legal Lohengrin · **Joined:** Tue Oct 26, 2010 9:56 pm **Posts:** 9369

Piffle wrote:

I hadn't yet heard of this second experiment, but the idea of something moving faster than light really is a big deal.

Big enough that my first inclination is to doubt it.

Estiveo · **Posted:** Mon Nov 21, 2011 1:12 am

I have problems with these FTL "observations," mostly because, if true, they really shouldn't be observable at all...tachyons make my teeth ache, but that's what FTL neutrinos would be, plus...wouldn't they get there before they left, instead of after? That would be the smoking gun...that smoked...before :-k

Einstein would love to work this out, but given relativity...he already did.

Or something.

My brain hurts.

kimba · **Joined:** Tue Sep 08, 2009 3:24 pm **Posts:** 6633

Quote:

but given relativity

Einstein's Special Theory of Relativity describes the motion of particles moving at close to the speed of light while Einstein's General Theory of Relativity is a separate theory about the effects of gravity.

realist · **Joined:** Fri Jan 23, 2009 1:33 pm **Posts:** 23561

Estiveo wrote:

I have problems with these FTL "observations," mostly because, if true, they really shouldn't be observable at all...tachyons make my teeth ache, but that's what FTL neutrinos would be, plus...wouldn't they get there before they left, instead of after? That would be the smoking gun...that smoked...before :-k

Einstein would love to work this out, but given relativity...he already did.

Or something.

My brain hurts.

Not to mention that if one is traveling faster than the speed of light the headlights won't work... could be very dangerous.

Piffle · **Posted:** Mon Nov 21, 2011 7:44 pm

realist wrote:

Not to mention that if one is traveling faster than the speed of light the headlights won't work... could be very dangerous.

And Orly would feenish before she got started.

Estiveo · **Posted:** Tue Nov 22, 2011 1:55 am

Piffle wrote:

realist wrote:

Not to mention that if one is traveling faster than the speed of light the headlights won't work... could be very dangerous.

And Orly would feenish before she got started.

Mental image requires both brain bleach and the Waters of Lethe. Also a cookie. And a hug, also, too. :cry:

Slartibartfast · **Joined:** Mon Aug 10, 2009 2:52 pm **Posts:** 1557

Estiveo wrote:

Mental image requires both brain bleach and the Waters of Lethe. Also a cookie. And a hug, also, too. :cry:

It's okay. :hug:

The bad lady can't hurt you...

A Legal Lohengrin · **Joined:** Tue Oct 26, 2010 9:56 pm **Posts:** 9369

Estiveo wrote:

Piffle wrote:

realist wrote:

Not to mention that if one is traveling faster than the speed of light the headlights won't work... could be very dangerous.

And Orly would feenish before she got started.

Mental image requires both brain bleach and the Waters of Lethe. Also a cookie. And a hug, also, too. :cry:

No, no, go not to Lethe, nor twist
wolfsbane, tight-rooted, for its poisonous wine. . .

GreatGrey · **Posted:** Tue Nov 22, 2011 7:48 pm

From BoingBoing http://boingboing.net/2011/11/22/best-r ... tract.html

Slartibartfast · **Joined:** Mon Aug 10, 2009 2:52 pm **Posts:** 1557

GreatGrey wrote:

From BoingBoing http://boingboing.net/2011/11/22/best-r ... tract.html

Best. Abstract. Ever.

realist · **Joined:** Fri Jan 23, 2009 1:33 pm **Posts:** 23561

I was on the phone with Maru and reading this thread, and she said the REAL question would be at that speed how fast would your hair dry if the window was open.

However, since it's a "probably not" I now don't know what to tell her.

realist · **Joined:** Fri Jan 23, 2009 1:33 pm **Posts:** 23561

Quote:

No, no, go not to Lethe, nor twist
wolfsbane, tight-rooted, for its poisonous wine. . .

My favorite has always been The Eve of St. Agnes.

Slartibartfast · **Joined:** Mon Aug 10, 2009 2:52 pm **Posts:** 1557

If quantum weak measurement can't explain the superliminal neutrinos then they still may be truly superliminal, in which case, you just need to put a head (or a head analog--with wet hair) out the window and blast it with some c+ neutrinos and you'll have your answer. See, science isn't hard... :mrgreen:

realist · **Joined:** Fri Jan 23, 2009 1:33 pm **Posts:** 23561

Slartibartfast wrote:

If quantum weak measurement can't explain the superliminal neutrinos then they still may be truly superliminal, in which case, you just need to put a head (or a head analog--with wet hair) out the window and blast it with some c+ neutrinos and you'll have your answer. See, science isn't hard... :mrgreen:

I'll pass that along to her.

Thanks. :-bd

Whatever4 · **Posted:** Tue Nov 22, 2011 11:20 pm

realist wrote:

I was on the phone with Maru and reading this thread, and she said the REAL question would be at that speed how fast would your hair dry if the window was open.

However, since it's a "probably not" I now don't know what to tell her.

Girl's gotta be consistant.
:xo

Sterngard Friegen · **Posted:** Tue Nov 22, 2011 11:57 pm

Does this mean that when I work for 1 hour for a client I can charge for 3?

Whatever4 · **Posted:** Wed Nov 23, 2011 12:01 am

Sterngard Friegen wrote:

Does this mean that when I work for 1 hour for a client I can charge for 3?

Only if you are a quantum mechanic.

Slartibartfast · **Joined:** Mon Aug 10, 2009 2:52 pm **Posts:** 1557

Whatever4 wrote:

Sterngard Friegen wrote:

Does this mean that when I work for 1 hour for a client I can charge for 3?

Only if you are a quantum mechanic.

If you're a quantum mechanic you can charge for 1 and 3 hours...

Wanted: Schrödinger's cat

DEAD AND ALIVE

Sterngard Friegen · **Posted:** Wed Nov 23, 2011 12:10 am

So, my clients both will and won't pay me?

I don't know if I can live with the uncertainty.

Slartibartfast · **Joined:** Mon Aug 10, 2009 2:52 pm **Posts:** 1557

Sterngard Friegen wrote:

So, my clients both will and won't pay me?

I don't know if I can live with the uncertainty.

Blame Heisenberg.

Sterngard Friegen · **Posted:** Wed Nov 23, 2011 12:15 am

Every time I try he's not there.

Estiveo · **Posted:** Wed Nov 23, 2011 12:47 am

All these wonderful shortcuts, and now the Italians say , "No, you can't has FTL."

Epi needs to kick their behinds and get 'em wif the program.

Falsehoods unchallenged only fester and grow.

Uh-oh: the speed of light is not what we thought it was

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