It seems to me that there may be better solutions to the draft problem than the methods we are currently using. The current method requires: agreement among members as to the goals of the board; fairly uniform thread-reading habits; and knowledge of the general guidelines requested (and knowledge of which draft was posted, filed, accepted, what-have-you).

This seems to be a recipe for frustration, frustration, and frustration.

What about, say, posting the draft in a locked topic with clear requests? Once the draft is filed, the topic could be unlocked or just merged with the right thread.

I'm not married to this idea. But maybe there's a better way than what we're doing.

I like it.

those instructions better be huge and in color. and repeated.

Sounds fine to me.

Don't most of us use the "View active topics" function?

I do and locked threads will drop off the front page before some of us west coasters even get up.

I really doubt we can come up with a hard and fast rule that everyone will agree on and that won't squelch meaningful discussion. Arguably, we shouldn't even comment on a complaint when it hits PACER, because until an answer is filed, it can be amended. Even after an answer is filed, one can always file for leave to amend, and it might even be granted. There's really no time we can't "help" Orly.

There are also cases, like the Ruemmler one, where the case is so obviously DOA that there is literally nothing that can even make it better, since other than not filing it at all, there is no way to improve it. There are also cases, like the Berg/Taitz feud, where we might actually want to help both sides inflict the maximum damage on the other.

None of Orly's cases are winners. The only time I think it's actually harmful to "help" Orly is when advice that she'd actually take would allow her to overcome some procedural hurdle and waste more taxpayer dollars or harass someone more. I have to admit that I think people seriously need not to point out typos in her "draft" heaps of crapola. She actually fixes those, and she should look as stupid as possible at all times. I'd hope we can all agree on that at least, although probably someone will disagree about that as well.

In any event, threats not to paste stuff from Orly's House o' Nitrous are basically just an invitation for someone else to do the same. Unless, of course, nobody cares, in which case, nobody cares.

Me too some times. But when first page full of new, I move to page 2 (or 3) and start reading forward.

Yeah. I suppose this might help but still need a place to praise her unibooby work product!

Loh -- I'm not worried we're going to give the Chaleria the majik words so that she can escape dismissal. I'm afraid we'll improve her pleadings sufficiently that she'll avoid sanctions or bar scrutiny.

A large body of work which is, let's face it, crazy and completely incompetent, is what Taitz is building.

Let's let her do it. Or, as Selective Service head General Lewis B. Hershey once complained about judicial review in support of his assertion there shouldn't be any, "Let us make our own mistakes."

If they're locked, they're sticky, aren't they? locked at the top.

But they don't show up as new posts.

Making them "announcements" would take care of some of that, but not for "new posts."

The only way to proceed is to trust each person's ability to refrain from making the corrections to the target rich environment that Taitz's pleadings are until the pleading has been formally excreted as confirmed by PACER. And, even then, Taitz will often send in a corrected version.

We need a sekrit forum.

Well, no, because even now we have members who are Regulars Who Know All The Rules and others who just stop in and everywhere in between, and we have some disagreement about even which things shouldn't be commented on, etc.

And I worry about your head, Stern, with all the bashing against the wall

I got your memo PM, Listeme.

Whatever the popular kids decide is fine with me. Of course, since I'm not on the kewl kids PM list, I don't really know what that means. But yeah, whatever.

What I like about this here blog is that it's wide open. No games. Just the truth. You know, fact-based reality.

Sounds good to me, as long as people can refrain from starting new threads to talk about the doc posted in the locked thread. I imagine they can, so it could be a very nice solution.