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PostPosted: Wed Jul 27, 2011 4:01 pm 
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The first right-wing commenter on Fjordman's blog after the attacks ended his harangue about marxists being guilty of driving people mad about muslims with condolences to the people of Denmark.

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PostPosted: Wed Jul 27, 2011 10:50 pm 
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Slate has a piece comparing the Norway bomber/shooter's obsession with overturning an illegitimate government with that of birthers.

http://www.slate.com/id/2300099/

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PostPosted: Wed Jul 27, 2011 11:07 pm 
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WND declares shooter to be a reader of the New York Times.

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PostPosted: Wed Jul 27, 2011 11:34 pm 
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Tanguy Veys, who was quoted by the Guardian, has been talking to the Dutch newspaper NRC Handelsblad as well. He told them that there were 1,002 "visible" addresses, one of which definitely Dutch.

The 250 addresses in the Guardian definitely do not refer to recognizably UK addresses. There were 135 UK addresses, 115 Italian, 74 French, 21 Swedish, 18 Belgians, ...

400 addresses were not directly localizable, gmail and hotmail mainly. That particular yahoo you are all thinking of, does not get mentioned. US addresses were not counted it seems.

The NRC article quotes the entire accompanying e-mail. Our Norwegian John Galt seemed to know that not all his friends use up-to-date software, so he provided a detailed explanation of how to open his document. Of course, that too may have been copypasted. And he believed in Google Translate.

http://www.nrc.nl/nieuws/2011/07/27/wie ... -nl-adres/

(the relevant text is at the end and in English)

Other Belgian angle: the Belgian secret police seem to be very interested in the link between the killer and blogger Fjordman, based particularly on his blog at the right-wing Brussels Journal. The killer copypasted from there, but also from articles written at the Brussels Journal by Paul Belien, a right-winger who works for Geert Wilders and is married to a Vlaams Belang deputy.

http://www.brusselsjournal.com/blog/4556

One article there, which I read before, may be very interesting to American readers, especially those who wonder why I am calling the killer the "Norwegian John Galt" : "Can We Coexist With The Left?"

Don't be fooled into thinking it is only muslims and marxists these guys do not want to be with anymore.

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PostPosted: Thu Jul 28, 2011 7:55 am 
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The Los Angeles Times offers an "in-depth analysis" of what might be lasting effects on the political orientation and political activism of Norway's youth -- and, perhaps, the youth of many other nations. Norway attacks intensify political resolve of many youths
Quote:
The Norway massacre may shape the views of an entire generation. Already, youth parties, both liberal and conservative, are reporting membership surges. {The article treats Norway's Progress Party as a conservative party, which I think is a gross mistake. Good conservatives are needed in this fight just as much as are good liberals.}
...
Breivik may have succeeded in drawing attention to his anti-immigration views, Narum said, but his tactics may have made the climate too sensitive for right-wing parties to even raise the issue in the foreseeable future.

The long-term political impact of the attacks remains unclear. "But one way or another, I believe this will have consequences for the whole political climate for quite a long time," Narum said.

Sometimes it has seemed that the dangers perceived by many of us on PJ and now on TFB were being ignored by most of our fellow citizens. We worried when men armed with rifles marched outside venues where the nominee, President-elect, or President was speaking, but the nation shrugged it off. We have cheered the relatively few instances in which law enforcement has acted to counter a real and present threat, and we have warned of the same danger in nuts such as Lonestar1776. It has seemed to me that Europe has been letting its extreme right wing flourish. The Republican Party in the U.S. was happy to welcome its new Tea Party fringe.

Maybe now more people are awake to the danger. Maybe those kids will not be forgotten. What we need now is ordinary heroes who will speak out against the resurgence of reactionary politics and hatred, people who will take their convictions to the streets, lecture halls, and ballot boxes.

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PostPosted: Thu Jul 28, 2011 10:10 am 
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TollandRCR wrote:
... It has seemed to me that Europe has been letting its extreme right wing flourish. The Republican Party in the U.S. was happy to welcome its new Tea Party fringe. ...

Writing in openDemocracy, Cas Mudde offers a corrective to my observation. July 27, 2011 Norway’s catastrophe: democracy beyond fear
Quote:
There has been, as always after such horrific incidents, a wealth of commentary on their causes and consequences. A prominent theme is the rehashing of the enduring but misplaced view that the radical right in Europe is dangerously neglected. For example, a New York Times report discusses the killings in terms of “a wake-up call for security services” in Europe and the United States which “may have underestimated the threat of domestic radicals” - a view reminiscent of the one that sees the Columbine killings as an indication of the popularity of Marilyn Manson (see Nicholas Kulish, “Norway Attacks Put Spotlight on Rise of Right-Wing Sentiment in Europe”, 23 July 2011).
...
In the European media and among law-enforcement agencies too, extreme and radical-right groups have long been the object of great (even disproportionate) attention. Think of the many exposés by undercover journalists who have infiltrated various parties: among them Peter Rensen the (Dutch) Center Democrats, Anne Tristan the (French) Front National, Yaron Svoray the broader German neo-Nazi scene. Think too of the embarrassing federal constitutional court (FCC) case in Germany against the National Democratic Party (NPD), which was abandoned because the party was so infiltrated by the intelligence agencies that the court could no longer distinguish real party leaders from agents and informers.

There has also been strong legal and security action against the radical right in the name of democratic struggle against fascist evil. During the 1980s and 1990s in particular, radical-right politicians - even if they represented legal political parties and were not involved in violence - have been fired from (public) jobs, beaten up by “anti-fascists”, and spied upon by secret services. In addition, extreme-right activists have been given long jail sentences for what are essentially ideological crimes. The Austrian neo-Nazi Gottfried Küssel, for example, was sentenced to eleven years in prison for actively propagating National Socialism; and the punishment of violent extreme rightists for their crimes has often been supplemented by an extra sentence that takes their motivations into account.

In short, the far right has been and is taken very seriously in Europe. It receives exceptional attention in academia and the media, and both the European Union and its individual member-states have developed an extensive legal framework to combat its excesses. True, the diligent enforcement of legislation is lacking in some countries (especially in eastern Europe); but few if any countries are truly “blind in the right eye,” as some on the far left claim.

Mudde does not convince me, and that "extensive legal framework to combat its excesses" includes restrictions on freedom of speech that are unacceptable to many Americans, including those not on "the far left." I would be more convinced if politicians on the European far right ceased being elected to local and national offices. I also find odd Mudde's assertion that Norway's Progress Party is "...one of the least nativist radical-right parties in Europe. This party, when compared to the Danish People’s Party - which is among the most Islamophobic parties in Europe - looks like a fairly moderate conservative protest party." My quote above from Carl I. Hagen is not a quote from a "fairly moderate conservative protest party" leader. Indeed, the Progress Party might have changed since Hagen retired as its leader. It is possible that Hagen was always atypical. Or whitewash might be being applied very liberally. I do not take it as confirmation of Mudde's thesis that Breivik had left the Progress Party. I also do not forget where fascism found fertile ground in the 1930s and that it had far less success in the U.S.

What I do take seriously is Mudde's observation that Breivik may have been more influenced by the "''Eurabia'” theory of American 'counter-jihadists' such as Bruce Bawer, Bat Ye’or, Pamela Geller, and Robert Spencer." So, yes, I understand "And why beholdest thou the mote that is in thy brother's eye, but considerest not the beam that is in thine own eye?" We have enough work to do here to expunge these haters from our political dialogue. For that, more speech and more democracy can accomplish the job.

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PostPosted: Thu Jul 28, 2011 2:58 pm 
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Reading your posts is so informative, Tollie. Thank you so much for what you do here. I know I don't say that often enough.

I don't say it enough about a lot of other people, too. You all contribute mightily and I see it even when I fail to openly point it out. :hug:

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PostPosted: Thu Jul 28, 2011 7:53 pm 
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TollandRCR wrote:
What I do take seriously is Mudde's observation that Breivik may have been more influenced by the "''Eurabia'” theory of American 'counter-jihadists' such as Bruce Bawer, Bat Ye’or, Pamela Geller, and Robert Spencer." So, yes, I understand "And why beholdest thou the mote that is in thy brother's eye, but considerest not the beam that is in thine own eye?" We have enough work to do here to expunge these haters from our political dialogue. For that, more speech and more democracy can accomplish the job.


Hear hear.

However, I do find it troubling that America is the world's leading exporter of hate propaganda. Despite allowing these evil lunatics to speak at will (and thereby reveal themselves to law enforcement when they use their freedom of speech to inculpate themselves as planning mayhem), America is also constantly accused of being "politically correct" and this is mainly the lament of wackos who are upset they can't get anyone to agree with them who has an IQ higher than that of a rutabaga.

If you compare some of the countries with the most extensive regimes of anti-speech controls, like Germany, England, and France, just as examples, many of them have thriving nationalist parties that even occasionally get elected, something that would be unthinkable here. When someone like David Duke actually gets nominated by a major party, the party leadership is apt to endorse the candidate of the opposing party, and the Duke or Duke-wannabe goes down in ignominious shame. Meanwhile, people like Le Pen and Geert Wilders are quite viable and have a real following.

I think I prefer freedom of speech to incompetent, bungling attempts to stop speech that thrives anyway.

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PostPosted: Thu Jul 28, 2011 8:06 pm 
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Maybe somebody will be able to say some day that America is again the leading proponent of the ideals of democracy, tolerance, and human rights. That voice has been submerged beneath the cries of fear and revenge of the past decade.

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PostPosted: Thu Jul 28, 2011 8:38 pm 
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TollandRCR wrote:
Maybe somebody will be able to say some day that America is again the leading proponent of the ideals of democracy, tolerance, and human rights. That voice has been submerged beneath the cries of fear and revenge of the past decade.


We may be focused too much on the negative, considering our obsession with the birfers. As upset as the stupidity and evil gets at times, remember that we're dredging the bottom of the barrel when looking at these clowns.

I'd like to see any of these oh-so-enlightened European countries elect someone as their President (or Prime Minister or whatever) who is a racial minority. Okay, I suppose you have Disraeli in Great Britain, and in many respects he subject to the same kinds of vicious ethnic slurs as Obama, portrayed as a hooknosed Jew murdering babies, etc.

I guess Great Britain beat us on that, but I haven't seen anything approaching this nation's true commitment to egalitarianism, held by a majority of the people in this country.

I too remain disappointed that we are not projecting our values as well as we might, but Obama, you have to admit, is a rock star from America anywhere he goes in the world. What causes the birther scum and Faux Noise and the rest of the hate brigade to feel actual physical pain is the fact that Obama, in fact, currently is America's prime representative in the world, and that American status has vastly increased due to him.

Our nation had sunk to being viewed as virtually being barbarians (a common perception) under the reign of a stupid, ignorant, xenophobic white man. Now, we are viewed in better regard, under an intelligent, knowledgeable, cosmopolitan black man. I remain happy about that every time I think about it. Barack Obama is the first President I've seen in this country of whom I can say, without a trace of irony or sarcasm, that this man is MY President and I'm proud of him, and of my nation for electing him.

Sorry for the threadjack. I can't really think of any way to connect this to Norway, other than that Obama showed great grace in his response to this ghastly act by a right-wing terrorist literally in the Nazi tradition.

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PostPosted: Thu Jul 28, 2011 8:44 pm 
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As payback for that threadjack, note how Norwegian politicians respond to an event as traumatic and awful to Norway as 9/11 was to America: by embracing their ideals of freedom, rather than throwing them in the mud.

On Not Freaking Out With Fear: An Un-American Response to the Oslo Attack
by Glenn Greenwald


Quote:
He called on his country to react by more tightly embracing, rather than abandoning, the culture of tolerance that Anders Behring Breivik said he was trying to destroy.

“The Norwegian response to violence is more democracy, more openness and greater political participation,” Prime Minister Jens Stoltenberg insisted at a news conference. . . .

Stoltenberg strongly defended the right to speak freely -- even if it includes extremist views such as Breivik’s.

“We have to be very clear to distinguish between extreme views, opinions — that’s completely legal, legitimate to have. What is not legitimate is to try to implement those extreme views by using violence,” he said in English.


I will disagree with one point. Even George W. Bush, in the aftermath of 9/11, explicitly called for religious tolerance to Muslims, even if in reality, Muslims were rounded up. He still did not fan the flames with fiery, bigoted rhetoric.

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PostPosted: Fri Jul 29, 2011 1:01 pm 
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The same narrow, isolated, badly informed thinking that we consistently see among Birfers may underlie the worst atrocity in Norway since the Nazi occupation.

openDemocracy July 29, 2011 Norway's atrocity: the mental tunnell by Sara Silvestri suggests that three problems need more attention:
Quote:
The first is the internet and its tendency (alongside many positive effects) to allow people motivated by a cause to develop exclusivist ties and understandings of identity, perhaps becoming more extreme in the process. The easy availability of propaganda on the net and its appeal to those who seek confirmation of their existing views can become part of a reinforcing spiral where the “echo chamber” of certainty is not balanced by any contrary or challenging view. This seems to have been among the processes at work that led to the Norwegian tragedy.

The second is the use of categorisation as a way of defining, limiting - and targeting - sections of the population. Again, Breivik’s “manifesto” and his terrible actions are a dreadful example of where this way of thinking, taken to the extreme, can lead. But it is also prevalent at a policy level, in (for example) European counter-terrorism policies which conceive of individuals and “suspect communities” in homogeneous ways and attribute to them fixed religious, ethnic, or cultural affiliations - without appreciating either the huge varieties that exist within communities or the great changes that individuals undergo.
...
The third problem is the mentality that divides the world into two sides, the goodness or purity of one giving it the right to attack and kill the other. Breivik’s outpourings are pervaded by this mentality, and in this they resemble the mindset of al-Qaida and similar groups ostensibly at the opposite side of the spectrum.

This suggests that the real worry should be less particular forms of extremism (European right-wing or Islamist, for example) than the shared phenomenon of homogenising, reductive, and dogmatic forms of thought, built around rigid understandings of identity and enmity, and impermeable to dialogue with anyone outside the lucky tribe.

It is deeply ironic that what could be the most liberating medium for the exchange of information in all of human history could instead be trapping people inside narrow boxes.

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PostPosted: Fri Jul 29, 2011 1:32 pm 
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TollandRCR wrote:
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It is deeply ironic that what could be the most liberating medium for the exchange of information in all of human history could instead be trapping people inside narrow boxes.


So true. But the same thing has been said about earlier media as they were popularized from the use of moveable type on down through the wireless transmission of radio and television. The more available to the masses, the more polluted and poisoned they become.

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PostPosted: Fri Jul 29, 2011 2:43 pm 
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Leon Blum was elected 3 times in France at a time anti-Semitism was very fashionable.

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PostPosted: Fri Jul 29, 2011 4:15 pm 
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Sterngard Friegen wrote:
Leon Blum was elected 3 times in France at a time anti-Semitism was very fashionable.


Good point. There was also Pierre Mendes-France.

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PostPosted: Fri Jul 29, 2011 4:32 pm 
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A Legal Lohengrin wrote:
Sterngard Friegen wrote:
Leon Blum was elected 3 times in France at a time anti-Semitism was very fashionable.


Good point. There was also Pierre Mendes-France.

Just asked website Jew or Not Jew for a ruling on Mendes France.

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PostPosted: Sat Jul 30, 2011 6:56 am 
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Sterngard Friegen wrote:
A Legal Lohengrin wrote:
Sterngard Friegen wrote:
Leon Blum was elected 3 times in France at a time anti-Semitism was very fashionable.


Good point. There was also Pierre Mendes-France.

Just asked website Jew or Not Jew for a ruling on Mendes France.


Why? Just check his article on Wikipedia and search for "Le Pen". Yes, that is an episode Marine Le Pen does not like French people to remember. Like Breivik, they are all zionists now. :twisted:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pierre_Mend%C3%A8s_France

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PostPosted: Sat Jul 30, 2011 7:09 am 
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To breivik = to copypaste extensively and indiscriminately from various sources

To orlytaitz = to breivik, without deleting passages thatare inapplicable or even detrimental to your argument

Like when the Queen of Birthers (WBUH) breiviked an entire web page without noticing that it included a tirade against herself.

The killer orlytaitzed when he copypasted from Fjordland, but failed to delete a passage claiming he was Fjordland.

Unfortunately, there is already a word for breivik: to corrade.

http://matadornetwork.com/abroad/20-obs ... -comeback/

Deliciating in his kenching sanguinolency, the widdendreaming malagrug continued to freck down the island, until arrested by the yemeless police at the approach of twitterlight.

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PostPosted: Mon Aug 01, 2011 5:36 pm 
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[link]Geller Scrubs Violent Line From Norwegian Islamophobe’s 2007 E-mail,http://www.splcenter.org/blog/2011/08/01/geller-scrubs-violent-line-from-norwegian-islamophobes-2007-e-mail/[/link]

Pamela Geller, the reigning queen of anti-Muslim hysteria, has been feeling intensifying heat since Anders Breivik’s deadly rampage in Norway – and she’s not handling it well.

Geller was one of several prominent anti-Muslim activists cited by Breivik in the 1,500-word manifesto he posted on the Internet hours before his murderous bomb and shooting attack that left 77 Norwegians, mostly teenagers, dead. When news of the attack first broke, Geller published a post on her Atlas Shrugs website all but gloating that she had presaged Islamic violence in Scandinavia – only to discover, embarrassingly, that the attacker was not a jihadist Muslim but a Norwegian national who admired and studied her own rhetoric. Geller awkwardly backtracked, posting a rambling self-defense asserting that Breivik had only mentioned her by name once – while downplaying that he had cited her blog a dozen times, mentioned her co-founding partner of Stop Islamization of America, Robert Spencer, 64 times, and suggested that Spencer should win the Nobel Peace Prize.Now, one of Geller’s most relentless irritants, blogger Charles Johnson of Little Green Footballs (LGF), has determined that Geller has deleted the most damning passage from a June 24, 2007, E-mail she received, and posted, from an unidentified Norwegian correspondent bemoaning what he viewed as a surge in Islamic immigration.

The E-mailer begins by presenting the grossly inaccurate statistic that Oslo’s Muslim population in 2007 was 50% and growing. (Norway is estimated by the U.S. government to be 2% Muslim as of July 2011; even if every Norwegian Muslim lived in Oslo proper, the city would still be no more than about 18 percent Muslim). Adding in a medically unsustainable birth rate of 1.2 births per year per Muslim woman, the writer predicts the city would be almost two-thirds Muslim by 2010.

[link]More at the link.,http://www.splcenter.org/blog/2011/08/01/geller-scrubs-violent-line-from-norwegian-islamophobes-2007-e-mail/[/link]


From the comments:

Quote:
Geller being concerned that something is “insensitive and inappropriate” is about as believable as the KKK being concerned that the rope for a lynching is too thick. Virtually everything she writes is insensitive and inappropriate.

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PostPosted: Mon Aug 01, 2011 5:40 pm 
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Pretty soon the hate filled Geller will paint herself as yet another victim of this lunatic.

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PostPosted: Mon Aug 01, 2011 9:43 pm 
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Uh oh, our good buddy Joey Farah and WND show up in the manifesto.

http://conwebwatch.tripod.com/blog/inde ... s-buddies/

.

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PostPosted: Mon Aug 01, 2011 9:54 pm 
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GreatGrey wrote:
Uh oh, our good buddy Joey Farah and WND show up in the manifesto.

http://conwebwatch.tripod.com/blog/inde ... s-buddies/

.


I would say it's a good thing to have a compendium of the sources for Brevik's influences and sources. It is like watching roaches scatter when you turn on the light to watch them run away from his as one of their own .

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PostPosted: Mon Aug 01, 2011 9:57 pm 
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Maybe Gnome Corsi can run an expose on WND and the Norwegian racist murderer.

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PostPosted: Thu Aug 04, 2011 10:18 am 
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Frosty Wooldridge, of News with Views, says that America is turning into a "sludge pot," not the "melting pot" that it once was. Of course, it is Muslims that have caused this (with a little help from "the Mexicans").

TOLERANCE AND DIVERSITY: AMERICA’S ACHILLES HEEL
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Where does that leave the American way of life? Where does that leave European Americans that created the U.S. Constitution? Quite frankly, they will be running for their lives with examples like Detroit, Michigan and Los Angeles, California. They will be driven to create enclaves in the interior of the U.S. while this civilization declines.
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As we lose our language, our culture and our “melting pot” of commonality, we face terrific internal disconnects on every level. All tribes compete to dominate in one way or the other. With so many tribes facing off in America, it cannot be a positive ending for any of us.

How do we stop it? How do we save ourselves?

We must engage a total moratorium of all immigration into the United States of America. It’s that simple, that urgent and that mandatory. Without taking action, we will continue down the path of diversity and tolerance until we morph into chaos and violence. If we happen to escape chaos and violence, we will surely become a nation of untrusting, tense and fitful strangers.

Breivik would thoroughly agree.

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"Someone should tell Mrs. Reagan that young people -- not even young people on drugs -- are not the ones responsible for the major problems besetting the world!" John Irving, A Prayer for Owen Meany: A Novel, p. 370.


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PostPosted: Thu Aug 04, 2011 11:43 am 
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I hate to give Gov. Christie of NJ credit for, well, anything, but he is pretty terrific in this video.


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I have never made but one prayer to God, a very short one: "O Lord make my enemies ridiculous." And God granted it.--Voltaire


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