Do you have something to contribute that would bring it back to life?

"Birthers who join the Fogbow are allowed to post, but they're put in an area where you have the choice whether to read what they post, and whether you wish to respond to their posts."

Incredible.

So no untethered dissention is allowed here.

You'd think you guys would want some unhampered opposing voices here, just to sharpen your skills.

dayum.

Show us what you got.

Does anyone wish to guess which discredited Birther talking point he will bring up first?

If you want to address any of these facts we have been down the road many times and it is paved with Birfer failures:

1. Obama is the legal President
2. He is a natural born citizen
3. He was born in Honolulu, Hawaii
4. Either of the birth certificates he published from Hawaii is irrefutable proof of where and when he was born
5. The founding fathers didn't follow de Vattel when they thought about citizenship
6. A natural born citizen does not have to have even one parent who is a citizen at the time of his birth.
7. Obama is not a Muslim
8. Obama is not a communist
9. Obama is not a socialist
10. He hasn't spent 2 million dollars fighting to keep anything sealed
11. The first executive order he signed actually made more records available than they had been under Bush.

Dayum yo damself.

1. "Birthers who join the Fogbow are allowed to post" -- what about this is 'untethered' or 'hampered'?
2. We welcome opposing voices on any topic under the sun, except birtherism, in the open forum. You want to argue the flaws of US immigration policy? Health policy? Foreign policy? Penal code? States' rights? The economy? Country music and NASCAR? WELCOME, and bring your OPPOSING views.
3. Birtherism is the exception ONLY IN THAT SOME MEMBERS CAN OPT OUT of reading the arguments. This does not limit the poster whatsoever, so long as they follow the general rules as well.
4. Why, you might ask, is birtherism/vattelism the exception to all those other worthy topics? Because:
   
   • Nothing in birtherism/vattelism is correct or true
   • Nothing in birtherism/vattelism is of value, except to the extent it divides the enemies of the Constitution
   • It is almost impossible for someone to bring a birther argument that we haven't heard and debunked 6 ways from Sunday. I only say "almost" because everything in birtherism/vattelism is just made-up shit, and it's always possible for someone to make up new shit.
   • In our experience, the people who want to argue in favor of these points have a typical posting pattern: cut and paste from birther blogs; hit-and-run quotes without attribution; tortured misreadings of law; nearly complete unwillingness to respond to intelligent questions with intelligent answers; a tendency to leave each failed argument without acknowledging the facts, and move on to a new (but familiar) topic (in effect using the forum as a trolling and/or astroturfing playground); and when pushed really hard, often reveal a deep hatred of democracy and the constitution, and/or a deep fear of the idea that someone of mixed race might inherently, innately, be as smart, good, patriotic, reliable, fair, and suited to national leadership as someone whose ancestors owned slaves.
5. Given those facts and tendencies, it has proven MORE than fair for some members to be allowed to not be exposed to the offal. But any birther/vattelist will find MANY others willing to engage.
6. Our skills need sharpening? Evidence, please?
7. Oh, and one other thing: It is actually, conceivably, remotely, mathematically possible that a birther could engage just fine in the open forum, without being relegated to the 'engagers' section. We have shot first and asked questions later, on occasion, but some of us are waiting for the day we're proved wrong. Unfortunately, a relationship like that could only end in one of two ways:
   
   • "Oh, I see, I was wrong, [insert birther myth here] is incorrect. Thanks for setting me straight."
   • "Put the birther in the birther section."

From my own post above -- note the commonalities in the list. Stripped of pejoratives, there's no there there. Quite often, birthers that come here simply are not here arguing on their own recognizance, using their own noggins. They are quoting others, like parrots. They aren't thinking, or reasoning. And very often they come from birther forums that actually do not allow ANY dissenting voices, so they are very unused to defending an idea in a thoughtful fashion. If their ideas are threatened, they're more used to being able to send a PM to their moderator to "make the obot go away." This has made their arguing skills flabby and made them thin-skinned, often apt to interpret criticism of a logical point as a personal attack.

I don't blame any of our members for not being interested in such empty, offensive, repetitive drivel.

But that's just previous experience. Today is a new day, I'm sure.

12. Wong Kim Ark? (Gives you an even dozen...)

13. His SSN is not fake, and was not stolen from some mystery man or woman born in 1890, and was not issued by the state of Connecticut (but rather by the federal government just like everyone else's).

Folks, this is not the place for a general discussion of birthers and/or trolls.

The purpose of this thread is to explain to the boogle -- and to any birthers or trolls who are relocated to the FEMA Camp -- about the sekrit forum and how to join the FEMA Staff & Visitors group if you're willing to engage with the birthers.

Sorry, but I'm locking the thread and moving the recent posts to Patagoniagirl's Hola and Gracias thread.