WND - World Net Daily

Loren · **Joined:** Wed Jan 28, 2009 4:20 pm **Posts:** 3891

I'm sure there's a name for it, but there's a particular logical fallacy that Corsi keeps trotting out that gets my attention. It's his claim that he intended all along for his book to goad Obama into acting, and that Obama has fallen into his trap by vouching for the long-form. He's not at arm's length, and is thus directly implicated in fraud.

The problem here is that Corsi ignores all the things Obama didn't have to do. He didn't have to send a lawyer to Hawaii. He didn't have to put the request documents online. He didn't have to have a press conference. He certainly didn't have to personally appear and speak at the press conference.

If Obama had wanted to stay at arm's length (or rather, at the same arm's length he'd had with the COLB), they could've just e-mailed the PDF directly to several major news agencies. No press, no fuss. Would that have been falling into Corsi's trap too?

PatGund · **Posted:** Thu Jul 07, 2011 12:56 pm

Loren wrote:

Farah says that WND has produced seven "experts" proclaiming the long-form is a fraud.

I think we need a compact list of these seven.

7.

Wouldn't #7 be "Adobe Engineer" (except he wasn't) Gary Poyssick??

SueDB · **Posted:** Thu Jul 07, 2011 1:05 pm

Maru wrote:

Breaking news at WND from Corsi!!

http://www.wnd.com/index.php?fa=PAGE.view&pageId=319221

More proof that the BC is a forgery! From a really important expert!! Who must remain ananymous for fear of retributions extreme professional embarrassment and sanction by any REAL Professional Organization!!

=))

FIFY

lyssandri · **Posted:** Thu Jul 07, 2011 1:27 pm

Today's WND birth certificate related scandal: Obama's father's birthdate is wrong.

Quote:

Early in his 1995 memoir, "Dreams from My Father," President Barack Obama makes this innocuous remark about his father: "In 1959, at the age of 23, he arrived at the University of Hawaii as that institution's first African student."

Obama got the book contract for "Dreams" while he was still at Harvard Law School. He may have pulled Obama Sr.'s biographical data from his Harvard documents, all of which list him as being born in 1936 and thus 23 when he arrived in Hawaii.

[...]

Today, even Wikipedia gives Obama Sr. a 1936 birthdate and a Hawaii arrival age of 23. Yet, like so much of the history told about our president, it is flat-out wrong.

Obama Sr. was born on June 18, 1934. He arrived in Hawaii as a 25-year-old. Contrary to what the birth certificate reports, he was 27 when Obama II was born.

This information about Obama Sr.'s real age did not come to light until his INS documents were made public by the Arizona Independent.

[...]

Researcher Don Wilkie argues that it is not an uncommon practice for foreign students to start recalculating their age when faced with the prospect of going home.

Read more: BHO Sr.'s revealing birth-date switch http://www.wnd.com/index.php?fa=PAGE.vi ... z1RRP5eolf

He goes on to say that the real question, of course, is even if Obama Sr was lying about his age for school loan purposes, why would he lie on his son's birth certificate. He says that Obama supporters would suggest that perhaps Obama's mother was the one who gave the birth date information for the certificate and that Obama Sr. had been lying to her all along, so she didn't realize she was giving incorrect information. From there, he starts in on a rant about how Obama supporters always have some kind of speculative reason to explain away anomalies, but unlike the heroic birthers who are "willing to put their hypotheses on the table and test them," Obama's defenders "shy from the challenge."

He also speculates that Obama's supporters may assume that some "friendly forger" created the birth certificate and got the date wrong by mistake. (uh, what?)

I wonder what he'll come up with next...

SueDB · **Posted:** Thu Jul 07, 2011 1:28 pm

On the tact of experts....WND couldn't afford enough money to make a real expert lie and cheat in what is so obviously a red herring or wild goose chase???? Ahh, the Snipe Hunt!

aarrgghh · **Joined:** Mon Mar 23, 2009 4:05 pm **Posts:** 1247

Loren wrote:

Farah says that WND has produced seven "experts" proclaiming the long-form is a fraud.

I think we need a compact list of these seven. ...

7. joey's pornstache

aarrgghh · **Joined:** Mon Mar 23, 2009 4:05 pm **Posts:** 1247

thorswitch wrote:

Today's WND birth certificate related scandal: Obama's father's birthdate is wrong.

i think by now we can expect birfers to declare every single datapoint that can possibly be traced to obama to be wrong ... until they need it to discredit some other datapoint.

Edit: diction

bob · **Posted:** Thu Jul 07, 2011 3:51 pm

Quote:

Obama Sr. was born on June 18, 1934. He arrived in Hawaii as a 25-year-old. Contrary to what the birth certificate reports, he was 27 when Obama II was born.

I can't imagine a reason why a 25-year-old man might lie about his age to a 17-year-old girl....

Epectitus · **Joined:** Fri Jan 23, 2009 3:55 pm **Posts:** 2356

Loren wrote:

Farah says that WND has produced seven "experts" proclaiming the long-form is a fraud.

I think we need a compact list of these seven.

1. Doug Vogt

2. Mara Zebest

3. Paul Irey

4. Karl Denninger

5. Ivan Zatkovich

6. James Colby

7.

Gary Poyssick

lyssandri · **Posted:** Thu Jul 07, 2011 6:30 pm

bob wrote:

Quote:

Obama Sr. was born on June 18, 1934. He arrived in Hawaii as a 25-year-old. Contrary to what the birth certificate reports, he was 27 when Obama II was born.

I can't imagine a reason why a 25-year-old man might lie about his age to a 17-year-old girl....

Yeah, but since we're Obots, we won't have the courage of our convictions to actually test out that theory. The fact that the only person who could possibly answer that question is {a} probably wouldn't want to admit to being that much of a cad and {b} is DEAD has nothing to do with any difficulties in getting to "the truth."

Sequoia32 · **Posted:** Thu Jul 07, 2011 6:50 pm

bob wrote:

Quote:

Obama Sr. was born on June 18, 1934. He arrived in Hawaii as a 25-year-old. Contrary to what the birth certificate reports, he was 27 when Obama II was born.

I can't imagine a reason why a 25-year-old man might lie about his age to a 17-year-old girl....

How about he just plain didn't know? That happened with persons born in the USA where births have been registered for a long time. Kenya didn't even require birth certificates until recently. Non-Christians don't have that stuff written in family bibles.

Wolf · **Joined:** Tue Aug 04, 2009 3:55 pm **Posts:** 198

Meet the birth certificate experts:

1. Doug Vogt
Internationally recognized

Quote:

Vogt has owned Archive Index Systems Inc., in Bellevue, Wash., a company that sells a wide variety of document scanners worldwide and develops document imaging software.

2. Mara Zebest
nationally recognized

Quote:

who has served as contributing author and technical editor for more than 100 books on Adobe and Microsoft software

I'll look more into the others later... but essentially an owner of a scanner sales company and a software book writer can conclude my birth certificate is a fake?

Plutodog · **Posted:** Fri Jul 08, 2011 12:47 am

SuEdB wrote:

On the tact of experts....WND couldn't afford enough money to make a real expert lie and cheat in what is so obviously a red herring or wild goose chase???? Ahh, the Snipe Hunt!

Damn, I haven't been on a good snipe hunt in decades!

BFB · **Posted:** Fri Jul 08, 2011 4:31 pm

Oh my! WND has an important open letter to readers:

WE NEED MONEY!!!

Quote:

I don't do this very often, but I'm going to do it now. I'll make it short and, I hope, sweet.

If you're a loyal WND reader, one who trusts and relies on us for your daily news, then you really need to be getting Whistleblower also.

(snip)

... I want to tell you about something else you're getting when you subscribe to Whistleblower. You're getting WND.

In case you've never thought about it, we bring you the world's leading independent English-language news website, seven days a week – for free. We serve as your watchdog on government 365 days a year. We guard your priceless freedoms by aggressively exposing corruption and evil everywhere, and by championing good.

(snip)

In contrast, our dedicated journalists work tirelessly to bring you the daily investigations and reporting you absolutely need in this chaotic world, all at no charge to you. How can we do that?

We do it by asking our loyal WND readers – those who rely on us for their daily news briefing – to return the favor by subscribing to our magazine. It's vitally important. Very simply, this is what keeps us going, along with advertising and purchases from our Superstore. But a critical part of our support comes from your subscription to our flagship product – Whistleblower.

What happened Joey?? Didn't quite sell as many copies of Corsi's book as you expected?

bob · **Posted:** Fri Jul 08, 2011 4:36 pm

WND wrote:

I don't do this very often, but I'm going to do it now.

realist · **Joined:** Fri Jan 23, 2009 1:33 pm **Posts:** 23528

He must have also eaten through that $15k he bilked these same readers out of for revealing Obama's BC.

Not to mention no telling how many thousands or tens of thousands in billboard money he never spent, etc., etc.

Hey Joey, my heart bleeds purple peanut butter for ya. :-({|=

Perhaps if you had real journalists, producing real journalistic articles, rather than complete tripe, your readership would expand to sane people who have money to donate and would be glad to. Just sayin'.

RTH10260 · **Posted:** Fri Jul 08, 2011 5:13 pm

BFB wrote:

Oh my! WND has an important open letter to readers:

WE NEED MONEY!!!

...

What happened Joey?? Didn't quite sell as many copies of Corsi's book as you expected?

The bank breathing hot down Joeys neck and asking for the pay back of their loan advance on the printing of Jeromes bedside stories ?

BFB · **Posted:** Fri Jul 08, 2011 5:39 pm

Paul Irey doubles down on the stupid.

realist · **Joined:** Fri Jan 23, 2009 1:33 pm **Posts:** 23528

BFB wrote:

Paul Irey doubles down on the stupid.

Indeed he does. =))

His idiocy was Scribd by none other than ORYR... boy genius and world traveler.

Sterngard Friegen · **Posted:** Fri Jul 08, 2011 5:47 pm

realist wrote:

BFB wrote:

Paul Irey doubles down on the stupid.

Indeed he does. =))

His idiocy was Scribd by none other than ORYR... boy genius and world traveler.

From his basement?

Loren · **Joined:** Wed Jan 28, 2009 4:20 pm **Posts:** 3891

Doug Vogt has a new affidavit at WND.

He starts off by citing his technical credentials, but the arguments advanced in the affidavit aren't technical at all. It's Vogt arguing why he thinks the handling of the White House's press conference was 'wrong.'

Also, the document is dated July 4, 2011 at the top, but the notarization is dated May 10. Go figure.

realist · **Joined:** Fri Jan 23, 2009 1:33 pm **Posts:** 23528

Loren wrote...

Quote:

Also, the document is dated July 4, 2011 at the top, but the notarization is dated May 10. Go figure.

Vogt and WND wouldn't be fudging/forging a notary, now, would they? :-k

Also, from an article at ORYR (I don't have time now to link it), it appears WND also has yet another "new" expert... some lady whose claim to fame is she's an IT person. She doesn't claim the pdf is a forgery, but that it's obviously "been altered from its original state."

Well, DUH!!! :roll:

Loren · **Joined:** Wed Jan 28, 2009 4:20 pm **Posts:** 3891

realist wrote:

Loren wrote...

Quote:

Also, the document is dated July 4, 2011 at the top, but the notarization is dated May 10. Go figure.

Vogt and WND wouldn't be fudging/forging a notary, now, would they? :-k

Honestly? I doubt it. For one thing, there's very little reason to forge a notarization. Sovereign citizen-types obviously believe that affidavits and notarization carry some kind of magic power ('I don't trust the Hawaii Department of Health, but this dude on the internet signed an affidavit and had it notarized!'), but it's not exactly an imposition to drop by a bank or grocery store to have one's signature witnessed.

No, what we have here is Vogt being lazy and inattentive to detail. Here are Vogt's four affidavits:

May 10 - http://www.archiveindex.com/Obama_affid ... 0-2011.pdf
May 22 - http://www.archiveindex.com/Obama_expan ... 2-2011.pdf
June 24 - http://www.scribd.com/doc/58721290/Obam ... now-listed
July 4 - http://www.wnd.com/files/Affidavit_Abou ... 7-2011.pdf

Note that three of these say "May 10" on the last page. Only May 22 is different. Vogt is recycling the same document template or is cutting-and-pasting, and not updating the date. There's even the same typo in all four: "deposes and say." But the signatures are distinct.

I do note, however, that the signature portion of Vogt's affidavits are structured much the same way as Tim Adams'. The language is the same, but more curiously, both put the notary's portion *ABOVE* the actual signature of the affiant. Which is backwards from virtually every affidavit I've ever seen. Adams' affidavit, you may recall, didn't even have a line for Adams' signature; it was just scrawled below the notarization.

realist · **Joined:** Fri Jan 23, 2009 1:33 pm **Posts:** 23528

Loren wrote:

realist wrote:

Loren wrote...

Quote:

Also, the document is dated July 4, 2011 at the top, but the notarization is dated May 10. Go figure.

Vogt and WND wouldn't be fudging/forging a notary, now, would they? :-k

Honestly? I doubt it. For one thing, there's very little reason to forge a notarization. Sovereign citizen-types obviously believe that affidavits and notarization carry some kind of magic power ('I don't trust the Hawaii Department of Health, but this dude on the internet signed an affidavit and had it notarized!'), but it's not exactly an imposition to drop by a bank or grocery store to have one's signature witnessed.

No, what we have here is Vogt being lazy and inattentive to detail. Here are Vogt's four affidavits:

May 10 - http://www.archiveindex.com/Obama_affid ... 0-2011.pdf
May 22 - http://www.archiveindex.com/Obama_expan ... 2-2011.pdf
June 24 - http://www.scribd.com/doc/58721290/Obam ... now-listed
July 4 - http://www.wnd.com/files/Affidavit_Abou ... 7-2011.pdf

Note that three of these say "May 10" on the last page. Only May 22 is different. Vogt is recycling the same document template or is cutting-and-pasting, and not updating the date. There's even the same typo in all four: "deposes and say." But the signatures are distinct.

I do note, however, that the signature portion of Vogt's affidavits are structured much the same way as Tim Adams'. The language is the same, but more curiously, both put the notary's portion *ABOVE* the actual signature of the affiant. Which is backwards from virtually every affidavit I've ever seen. Adams' affidavit, you may recall, didn't even have a line for Adams' signature; it was just scrawled below the notarization.

Oh, I didn't think so either. My remark was meant somewhat as snark.

That said, if anything so "nefarious" appeared on a non-birther document it would be the next Any. Day. Now. conspiracy of altering/forging/lying or some such nonsense.

editorkorir · **Posted:** Wed Jul 13, 2011 10:27 pm

realist wrote:

Yet another "expert" surfaces on the "forgery" of Obama's LFBC.

From WND...

CERTIFIGATE

Full Report here

Quote:

"Zebest concluded that the Nordyke twins' birth certificates played a major role in the forgery of the Obama birth certificate ".......the forgers used the Nordyke birth certificates as their ultimate template for the final product."

And more on layers, blah, blah, blah.

Corsi's "new" article says
"A prominent software engineer claims the Obama birth certificate released by the White House was forged by using as templates the birth certificates of twins born in Hawaii one day after the president.
The engineer, a high-level programmer for a state government, spoke on condition of anonymity but contends his analysis is self-evident. He previously, as WND reported, presented evidence that the signature of Obama's mother on the president's document is proof of fraud"

and then repeats the prior bs. How is this new? All Corsi did was add a few paragraphs at the start, emphasizing the Nordykes.

Falsehoods unchallenged only fester and grow.

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