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 Post subject: The Casey Anthony Trial
PostPosted: Tue May 31, 2011 5:45 am 
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Poutine wrote:
Legally, no. As a practical matter, if you're going to ask the jury to believe something, it helps to have evidence to support it.


A Legal Lohengrin wrote:
LM K wrote:
Now the defense has a burden of proof as well, correct? Saying that Caylee drowned and that Casey freaked out isn't enough to create reasonable doubt in the face of so much damning evidence.

How can the defense possibly work this into something large enough to create reasonable doubt when there isn't a single other person who has supported (or will be able to support) one bit of Casey's story? Casey has to go on the stand at this point.


The defense now has the burden of persuasion, which is different from the burden of proof. They have completely lost on the latter. This bitch is a murderer. She needs to prove out her affirmative defenses, such as insanity or diminished capacity, at this point. The fact that she is represented by a totally incompetent "lawyer" almost or even more dumb than Orly raises a future ineffective assistance of counsel defense.

My guess is she gets death. This defense was utterly pathetic, and practically invited the jury to sentence her to death. Even if I'd somehow ended up on this jury, despite stating I'd practically never sentence someone to death, I'd seriously consider sentencing this evil swine to death.


Thanks, gentlemen.

What is really sad in all of this is that Casey could have given her daughter to her parents. They had been helping to raise their granddaughter anyway.

There is some speculation that Cindy Anthony was looking into petitioning for custody of Caylee just before Caylee died. I don't know that this is true, and if it is, it will come out in the trial, but I guess George and Cindy were wanting to kick Casey out of the house but didn't because of Caylee. Casey had stolen a significant amount of money from her parents, and while they weren't certain, they did think that she wasn't working as she had been saying she was.

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 Post subject: The Casey Anthony Trial
PostPosted: Tue May 31, 2011 11:23 am 
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LM K wrote:
Casey had stolen a significant amount of money from her parents, and while they weren't certain, they did think that she wasn't working as she had been saying she was.


When her story of Zanny the Nanny first came out, I was wondering how she could afford a nanny? I have two young children and childcare is expensive!

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 Post subject: The Casey Anthony Trial
PostPosted: Tue May 31, 2011 3:56 pm 
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Defense counsel has just made a devastating error. He introduced into evidence some hearsay statements (subject to an exception) of the defendant in which she was seeking to exonerate herself. Under Florida law (which appears a bit peculiar, but it's the law), when such evidence is introduced by the defendant, her hearsay statement can be impeached by her prior felony convictions.

Here's the Florida case -- Huggins v. State. The trial judge knew of the case intimately, since it was the Florida (hanging chads) Supreme Court affirming a murder conviction after the evidence of 9 prior felonies was admitted by the same trial court judge!

So, it looks as if Casey Anthony's 6 prior felony convictions are coming in.

(One of the reasons why a defendant doesn't take the stand is because usually at that stage felony convictions can come in as impeachment. Now Baez has additional reasons to put her on the stand and insure she gets the death penalty.)

Baez stinks. Anthony may yet have an ineffective assistance of counsel claim after she is convicted and sentenced to death.

Quote:
Huggins also contests the admission of his nine prior felony convictions for impeachment purposes, arguing that the State, rather than defense counsel, elicited the hearsay statement attributed to Huggins and that evidence of Huggins' nine felony convictions should have been excluded under the balancing test of section 90.403, Florida Statutes (2002). The trial court admitted the fact of Huggins' convictions on the basis of section 90.806(1), Florida Statutes (2002), which provides in part that "[w]hen a hearsay statement has been admitted in evidence, credibility of the declarant may be attacked and, if attacked, may be supported by any evidence that would be admissible for those purposes if the declarant had testified as a witness." The trial court's ruling was made in accordance with First and Fourth District Court of Appeal holdings that section 90.806 permits the introduction of a defendant's felony convictions when the defendant elicits his or her own exculpatory, hearsay statement through another 756*756 witness at trial. See Kelly v. State, 857 So.2d 949 (Fla. 4th DCA 2003); Werley v. State, 814 So.2d 1159 (Fla. 1st DCA 2002); Llanos v. State, 770 So.2d 725 (Fla. 4th DCA 2000). Two of those decisions cite the following treatise passage concerning the functionally identical federal evidence provision: "A defendant who chooses not to testify but who succeeds in getting his or her own exculpatory statements into evidence runs the risk of having those statements impeached by felony convictions." 5 Jack B. Weinstein & Margaret A. Berger, Weinstein's Federal Evidence § 806.04(2)(b) (Joseph M. McLaughlin ed., 2d ed.2002). We agree with the First and Fourth Districts on that point of law. Under section 90.806(1), a hearsay declarant is treated as a "witness" and his or her credibility may be attacked in the same manner as any other witness's credibility. In turn, section 90.610(1), Florida Statutes (2002), provides in pertinent part that "[a] party may attack the credibility of any witness ... by evidence that the witness has been convicted of a crime if the crime was punishable by death or imprisonment in excess of 1 year."


889 So.2d 743, 755-756 (2004)

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 Post subject: The Casey Anthony Trial
PostPosted: Tue May 31, 2011 3:58 pm 
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LMAO Stern! I was just getting ready to point out that the Judge was ripping Baez a new one. Great minds think alike. Alas, for you, minds like mine think alike too.

Something about files.

Work keeps getting in the way. :evil:

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 Post subject: The Casey Anthony Trial
PostPosted: Tue May 31, 2011 7:07 pm 
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Mr. Baez had some trouble getting past the fitness committee to get his law license. IIRC, it had something to do with being a deadbeat dad. In the years between the time he passed the bar :shock: and was eventually given a law license :shock: :shock: , he worked for Lexis. One would think he would have been familiar with an important Florida Supreme Court case, as I believe that 2004 was part of the Baez Interregnum. I am truly appalled at how bad this guy is, and even more appalled that the taxpayers are paying him.

Even if he were competent, it seems extraordinarily foolish to attempt to handle all of the fact witnesses in a lengthy trial such as this.

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 Post subject: The Casey Anthony Trial
PostPosted: Tue May 31, 2011 7:28 pm 
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Sterngard Friegen wrote:
(One of the reasons why a defendant doesn't take the stand is because usually at that stage felony convictions can come in as impeachment. Now Baez has additional reasons to put her on the stand and insure she gets the death penalty.)

Baez stinks. Anthony may yet have an ineffective assistance of counsel claim after she is convicted and sentenced to death.


I'm beginning to agree. This guy is worse than Orly, if only because he's apparently trusted enough to get a capital case. What the hell is co-counsel doing while this assclown completely railroads his client?

This reminds me of a case I was reading the other day about IAC.

Quote:
Although an attorney can certainly make alternative arguments to a jury, Mr. DePalma's arguments were not in the alternative, they were unguided, and inept shots at anything that moved, or that appeared to move, with no apparent purpose, thought, or strategy.

Quote:
During the trial he continued to lose credibility. He tried to discredit a disinterested doctor. During cross-examination he implied that evidence was destroyed. . . During the summation he stated: 'the only thing is when you ask her [the physician] about the investigation, she's giving you a runaround.' . . .

For counsel to rest on 'strategy' necessitates the existence of one. This case lacked strategy. Instead, it was a 'useless charade.' U. S. v. Cronic, 466 U.S. 648, n. 19, 80 L. Ed. 2d 657, 104 S. Ct. 2039. (1984). . . .

Having no trial strategy, defense counsel improvised as they went along, proceeding from blunder to blunder with disastrous consequences.

Dist. Ct. Op. at 20 (emphasis added).

We agree.


Berryman v. Morton, 100 F.3d 1089, 1096 (3d Cir. 1996).

That is the judicial equivalent of this:


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 Post subject: The Casey Anthony Trial
PostPosted: Tue May 31, 2011 7:50 pm 
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As someone who's studied the death penalty somewhat (it was my law school thesis; and I am not a death penalty opponent), I can say that hearing all your observations about Baez sounds like what most people would say if they watched most death penalty cases around the country. Most of them are sent to supposedly death-qualified public defenders (or private lawyers on public defender contracts.) The legal representation involved is outstanding in some cases, but horrendous in most others. The courts have struggled to adjudicate the many ineffective counsel arguments that arise from these, with the Supreme Court taking a predictably conservative stance that proof of an idiot representing a client is not enough to arise to a 6th Amendment violation. I think the 5th Circuit affirmed a death sentence once where counsel fell asleep during the prosecution's cross-examination at one point. (Google starting point: here).

Couple this with prosecutors and trial judges who have no incentive to apply the death penalty fairly, because by the time the sentence is considered on appeal, they are long-gone from their positions and not held to account. The appellate courts have to do the dirty work of reversing or remanding improper death sentences, which they do a majority of the time.

If you think this legal representation is horrific, imagine what would happen if the case wasn't being played out on national tv.

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 Post subject: The Casey Anthony Trial
PostPosted: Tue May 31, 2011 7:57 pm 
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On the other hand there is the countervailing thought that Casey Anthony is getting what she deserves . . .

I don't much like child murderers. Especially those who celebrate the death for the next month.

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 Post subject: The Casey Anthony Trial
PostPosted: Tue May 31, 2011 8:10 pm 
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Sterngard Friegen wrote:
On the other hand there is the countervailing thought that Casey Anthony is getting what she deserves . . .

I don't much like child murderers. Especially those who celebrate the death for the next month.


I would agree that, assuming all the facts are proven as they're basically alleged, she qualifies for death under Florida and federal constitutional law. I don't agree that any defendant should be sentenced to death under such incompetent legal representation. The system should be tested to its extreme limits by the most zealous and skilled representation available, before it is allowed to deprive a human being of life.

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 Post subject: The Casey Anthony Trial
PostPosted: Tue May 31, 2011 8:45 pm 
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I do not know about Florida but most indigent defense attorneys are being paid a pittance, generally $75.00 an hour (and our wonderful RWNJ here in NC has just introduced a bill to reduce that to $50.00 an hour, and before anyone thinks that $50.00 an hour is a pretty good wage remember that has to cover his office expenses, his staff, his utilities etc., $50.00 an hour doesn't go very far). Most privately retained attorneys either charge a flat fee for a case like this or bill about $300.00 an hour. Generally that means that only the most incompetent lawyers end up as indigent defense attorneys. In our district you have to have certain qualifications to be on the death penalty list, (so many years experience, so many death penalty cases etc.) I do not know how it works in other jurisdictions. It appears that this attorney is out of his depth, and he doesn't appear to have any "My Cousin Vinny" tricks up his sleeve.

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 Post subject: The Casey Anthony Trial
PostPosted: Tue May 31, 2011 9:37 pm 
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My hourly rate is very high, but more than $100 an hour of that goes to overhead.

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 Post subject: The Casey Anthony Trial
PostPosted: Tue May 31, 2011 9:37 pm 
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Highlands wrote:
LM K wrote:
Casey had stolen a significant amount of money from her parents, and while they weren't certain, they did think that she wasn't working as she had been saying she was.


When her story of Zanny the Nanny first came out, I was wondering how she could afford a nanny? I have two young children and childcare is expensive!


If you only have an imaginary nanny, you can pay them in imaginary money.

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 Post subject: The Casey Anthony Trial
PostPosted: Tue May 31, 2011 9:39 pm 
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Same cannot be said when you have an imaginary defense being put on by an imaginary lawyer.

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 Post subject: The Casey Anthony Trial
PostPosted: Tue May 31, 2011 10:27 pm 
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poutine wrote:
Sterngard Friegen wrote:
On the other hand there is the countervailing thought that Casey Anthony is getting what she deserves . . .

I don't much like child murderers. Especially those who celebrate the death for the next month.


I would agree that, assuming all the facts are proven as they're basically alleged, she qualifies for death under Florida and federal constitutional law. I don't agree that any defendant should be sentenced to death under such incompetent legal representation. The system should be tested to its extreme limits by the most zealous and skilled representation available, before it is allowed to deprive a human being of life.


Yes, but she hired this guy. He was paid about $200K by the family before the Defendant was declared indigent. You're not suggesting the court should step in and provide what it thinks is the right attorney, are you?

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 Post subject: The Casey Anthony Trial
PostPosted: Tue May 31, 2011 11:13 pm 
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TexasFilly wrote:
Yes, but she hired this guy. He was paid about $200K by the family before the Defendant was declared indigent. You're not suggesting the court should step in and provide what it thinks is the right attorney, are you?


Someone actually deliberately hired this Lionel Hutz caricature?

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 Post subject: The Casey Anthony Trial
PostPosted: Tue May 31, 2011 11:20 pm 
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TexasFilly wrote:
poutine wrote:
Sterngard Friegen wrote:
On the other hand there is the countervailing thought that Casey Anthony is getting what she deserves . . .

I don't much like child murderers. Especially those who celebrate the death for the next month.


I would agree that, assuming all the facts are proven as they're basically alleged, she qualifies for death under Florida and federal constitutional law. I don't agree that any defendant should be sentenced to death under such incompetent legal representation. The system should be tested to its extreme limits by the most zealous and skilled representation available, before it is allowed to deprive a human being of life.


Yes, but she hired this guy. He was paid about $200K by the family before the Defendant was declared indigent. You're not suggesting the court should step in and provide what it thinks is the right attorney, are you?


I have wondered why the Anthonys have kept Baez as counsel, even after Casey was declared indigent. The guy is an asshole. But, I guess the family felt like they needed a pitbull as this case became more intense. I suspect that the Anthonys were counseled to get rid of Baez some time ago but Casey felt comfortable with him so she kept him as counsel. Baez makes quite a show of "protecting" and "caring for" Casey.

Baez is, IMO, a sociopath. I don't say that because of his defense strategy. I say that because everything I have read and everything I have watched him do in these past months demonstrates that he has no conscience. He just isn't a Casey Anthony level sociopath. But I do believe he is a sociopath.

WFTV's Legal Analyst Bill Sheaffer:

Day 17, 5/31/2011

Edit: I messed up. Cindy and George Anthony didn't hire Baez for Casey; Casey hired Baez on her own. Sorry! [-o<

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 Post subject: The Casey Anthony Trial
PostPosted: Tue May 31, 2011 11:38 pm 
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From an article about today's trial proceedings:

Quote:
When Huizenga [Casey's ex-best friend and roommate whom Casey stole checks from]took the stand, prosecutor Frank George asked her to describe the relationship between Casey and Cindy.

"It was strained. It was hard. Her mom was continuously agitated with her," Huizenga said.

"Did she tell you why her mother was continuously agitated with her?" asked George.

"I remember, there was a time when she told me that her mom told her that she was an unfit mother. She was extremely upset about that," Huizenga stated.

Prosecutors allege that Caylee was last seen several weeks earlier and that Casey waited a month before reporting the girl missing. Prosecutors contend the odor in the car came from human decomposition, but defense attorneys claim it was from rotting garbage.


I am beginning to think that Casey killed Caylee for 2 reasons:

1) She was tired of being a mom, wanted her old life back and wanted to be as sexually available to other men as possible (I have no problem with her promiscuity, but it isn't a reason for getting rid of or neglecting one's child).

2) Killing Caylee was a way to hurt her parents in a way that no other loss could hurt them.

Casey had been acting out for years; she was running out of ways to hurt her parents. Killing Caylee would be the ultimate "punishment"/"revenge" against her parents.

Lawyers, do you think the prosecution should mention the 6 felony convictions?

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 Post subject: The Casey Anthony Trial
PostPosted: Tue May 31, 2011 11:55 pm 
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The Florida rule is a little unusual. I don't know if it has yet passed constitutional muster with SCOTUS. (I'm sure Loh can tell us.)

On balance I think the 6 felony convictions are prejudicial and outweigh whatever interest there might be in using the convictions to allow the jury to disbelieve a hearsay statement the defendant made years before. The judge also wants to know from Baez (good luck) if the hearsay statement was exculpatory and relevant or collateral.

I think it will be hard for the jury to receive the evidence for its limited purpose and therefore that the prejudicial effect outweighs the "probative value" (usefulness in determining whether the defendant is a liar). But I also think the information (the judge will simply inform the jury she's been convicted of 6 felonies without saying anything more) is coming in because Baez is an incompetent.

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 Post subject: The Casey Anthony Trial
PostPosted: Wed Jun 01, 2011 12:36 am 
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LM K wrote:
Lawyers, do you think the prosecution should mention the 6 felony convictions?


According to Wiki, Florida has a 3 strikes law on the books. Interesting. Wonder how long ago these felonies occurred?

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 Post subject: The Casey Anthony Trial
PostPosted: Wed Jun 01, 2011 2:42 am 
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A Legal Lohengrin wrote:
TexasFilly wrote:
Yes, but she hired this guy. He was paid about $200K by the family before the Defendant was declared indigent. You're not suggesting the court should step in and provide what it thinks is the right attorney, are you?


Someone actually deliberately hired this Lionel Hutz caricature?


I also didn't realize he was being paid. Holy crap. That is awful, just awful, for this poor family. What a horrific nightmare this is for them. I truly feel sadness in my heart for those grandparents.

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 Post subject: The Casey Anthony Trial
PostPosted: Wed Jun 01, 2011 5:01 am 
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Casey's 6 Felonies

These all date to Jan, 2010.

Quote:
There are 13 separate crimes or offenses because of 4 stolen checks.

snip.....

Judge Strickland rules: 6 adjudicated felonies. Multiple counts are proper, but multiple punishments are not.

Four felony convictions for forgery.

1 felony conviction for fraudulent use of personal information.

Convicted on the felony for Grand Larceny in count 1.


This was all related to the money and checks that Casey stole from her best friend and roommate.


In today's session of the trial, Cindy Anthony was on the stand. The court listened to the 3 911 calls she made before and after she learned of Caylee's disappearance (Casey wouldn't say that Caylee was missing at first). Cindy Anthony was inconsolable today; she doubled over and could barely be seen in the witness box as she sobbed. During one break, Cindy she had to be escorted to her husband by a courtroom deputy sheriff because she could barely walk. When she reached her husband, she almost fell to the ground; George was able to catch her.

Media in the courtroom stated that the jury was quite moved by Cindy's testimony. Some jury members showed strong emotional reactions to Cindy Anthony's testimony.

Quote:
I noticed, as Cindy struggled to compose herself, that one juror held his hand over his mouth ... Other female jurors were looking sad and horrified.


Quote:
Anthony placed the call the day after daughter Caylee was reported missing – but after the child had not been seen for a month.

Several jurors winced every time Casey used the F-word, the biggest reaction coming when Casey was hearing saying, "Nobody in my family is on my side. … That's all they care about right now, finding Caylee."

The entire jury stared at Casey; a couple of them seemed to scowl.
Casey stared straight forward, not looking at anyone and showing no emotion.


Quote:
As she listened to the recording, Cindy began shaking and sobbing, and doubled over. When it was done, she asked the judge for a five-minute break.

The recording also sent shock waves through the hushed courtroom. Several onlookers in the balcony wiped their eyes with tissues. Riveted jurors read the transcript of the call as it played, periodically looking up to watch the distraught grandmother weeping. Several of them looked over at Casey Anthony, who sat emotionless by her attorneys.


During one of the breaks, folks in the hallway could hear Cindy Anthony sobbing in the bathroom.

I think that reality is just settling in for Cindy, She has known that Caylee is dead for several weeks. I doubt she experienced the emotional knowledge of that loss before now. Cindy has witnessed 5 days of damaging court testimony, and is mourning her daughter as well as her granddaughter. I think she is mourning for the idea of her daughter. Cindy was Casey's biggest supporter. She is seeing who Casey really is now and I think she is horrified by what she doesn't see in Casey; a soul.

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 Post subject: The Casey Anthony Trial
PostPosted: Wed Jun 01, 2011 9:56 am 
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George and Cindy are the main reason why the jury will probably choose not to give the death penalty. They will beg the jury to spare her life at the sentencing phase, and the jury already has an emotional connection with them.

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 Post subject: The Casey Anthony Trial
PostPosted: Wed Jun 01, 2011 10:30 am 
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I notice today during the testimony of the brother that all defense objections are being done by a woman with a really bad perm, not Baez.

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 Post subject: The Casey Anthony Trial
PostPosted: Wed Jun 01, 2011 10:40 am 
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Maru wrote:
I notice today during the testimony of the brother that all defense objections are being done by a woman with a really bad perm, not Baez.


I am beginning to think Baez is Apuzzo's doppelganger. Competent lawyers work late into the night during trial, preparing for the next day (and beyond). Like Mario, I think Baez spends a great deal of time reading comments at media sites and blogs. Maybe, for once, he took some of the general public's advice.

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 Post subject: The Casey Anthony Trial
PostPosted: Wed Jun 01, 2011 10:41 am 
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TexasFilly wrote:
Maru wrote:
I notice today during the testimony of the brother that all defense objections are being done by a woman with a really bad perm, not Baez.


I am beginning to think Baez is Apuzzo's doppelganger. Competent lawyers work late into the night during trial, preparing for the next day (and beyond). Like Mario, I think Baez spends a great deal of time reading comments at media sites and blogs. Maybe, for once, he took some of the general public's advice.


They are at the Judge right now but Baez is nowhere to be seen! Is he even there today?

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