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 Post subject: The Casey Anthony Trial
PostPosted: Wed May 25, 2011 1:26 am 
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Sterngard Friegen wrote:
Highlands wrote:
LM K wrote:
I can't believe that Casey is throwing both of her parents under the bus like this. Unbelievable.


Not that I condone this sort of behavior, but facing the reality of the death penalty probably makes people do all sorts of crazy shit.


Which is one of the reasons that criminal defendants hire lawyers. Because the criminal defendant's judgment is skewed. The lawyer is supposed to be the objective, cool headed one, with judgment.


This lawyer's judgement is seriously skewed. There is no logic to his opening statement. This is throwing shit at the wall and hoping something sticks.

Good lord; I feel for George Anthony. Casey's lawyer is claiming that George Anthony tried to commit suicide because he was feeling so guilty about an affair he was having.

Is the affair a new thing?

Does anyone on the planet believe that George Anthony abused his daughter? I guess it is possible. What isn't possible is that sexual abuse would make Casey lie about the "accidental" death of her daughter like this. And sexual abuse is a non-issue in Casey's defense; it could play a role in her sentencing, but it is irrelevant to her murder charges.

Epic fail defense!

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 Post subject: The Casey Anthony Trial
PostPosted: Wed May 25, 2011 1:36 am 
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The defense lawyer is trying to create a logical framework to explain why George and Casey lied about the accidental death. The big problem with that is that upon analysis it is completely illogical. The opening statement also requires Casey to testify and that would be quite foolish in this case. She will not be able to explain all the fun she was having once she was relieved of the burden of a daughter. And the jury will hate her even more. If she does testify, a death sentence is more likely.

The part of the D.A.'s opening statement that most interested me was the Google searches for chloroform and methods of killing someone that were allegedly found on Casey's computer. I did think the D.A.'s "performance" -- her manner of presentation -- was pretty awful, although what she had to say was quite compelling. The strip mall lawyer's presentation was much better, more lively and more engaging. Too bad all he was doing was talking shit and creating an expectation in the jury that Casey would testify.

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 Post subject: The Casey Anthony Trial
PostPosted: Wed May 25, 2011 8:49 am 
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Sterngard Friegen wrote:
The defense lawyer is trying to create a logical framework to explain why George and Casey lied about the accidental death. The big problem with that is that upon analysis it is completely illogical. The opening statement also requires Casey to testify and that would be quite foolish in this case. She will not be able to explain all the fun she was having once she was relieved of the burden of a daughter. And the jury will hate her even more. If she does testify, a death sentence is more likely.

The part of the D.A.'s opening statement that most interested me was the Google searches for chloroform and methods of killing someone that were allegedly found on Casey's computer. I did think the D.A.'s "performance" -- her manner of presentation -- was pretty awful, although what she had to say was quite compelling. The strip mall lawyer's presentation was much better, more lively and more engaging. Too bad all he was doing was talking shit and creating an expectation in the jury that Casey would testify.


The story that the defense is creating is so full of holes. I understand why they went with this defense, but the story is so illogical that there is very little framework. Could this story of an accidental death have been created in a more believable way if there were no accusation of sexual abuse? This fabrication makes the defense case weaker rather than stronger. And George Anthony was adamant that he never abused his daughter. Casey could have just claimed to have been too distraught to make rational decisions after Caylee's death. I honestly can't understand why sexual abuse has been thrown into this case.

Oh, and the police conspired against Casey. As did Casey's parents, the meter reader, the media, etc. It's all a conspiracy.

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 Post subject: The Casey Anthony Trial
PostPosted: Wed May 25, 2011 12:27 pm 
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Sterngard Friegen wrote:
The defense lawyer is trying to create a logical framework to explain why George and Casey lied about the accidental death. The big problem with that is that upon analysis it is completely illogical. The opening statement also requires Casey to testify and that would be quite foolish in this case. She will not be able to explain all the fun she was having once she was relieved of the burden of a daughter. And the jury will hate her even more. If she does testify, a death sentence is more likely.

The part of the D.A.'s opening statement that most interested me was the Google searches for chloroform and methods of killing someone that were allegedly found on Casey's computer. I did think the D.A.'s "performance" -- her manner of presentation -- was pretty awful, although what she had to say was quite compelling. The strip mall lawyer's presentation was much better, more lively and more engaging. Too bad all he was doing was talking shit and creating an expectation in the jury that Casey would testify.


I had the same impressions about opening statements, at least initially. The DA was rather dry, but I understand that's her M.O. The male DA (whose name escapes me right now) is supposed to be the emotive one, and I thought he did a great job with the father on the stand. Baez' opening was dramatic, but there was no substance to it. I think over the course of an 8 week (or much longer, I think) trial, facts, substance, and reality will win the day. At least I hope so. I've been wrong before.

Again, Baez told this jury that his client was a pathological liar. And his defense depends on the jury believing one thing -- his pathological liar client. I'll bet the DA who has been assigned to cross examine the Defendant had major issues with their salivary glands yesterday.

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 Post subject: The Casey Anthony Trial
PostPosted: Wed May 25, 2011 12:43 pm 
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I started watching the DA's opening statement last night. Pretty cool of them to make archives available of raw video.

Anyway, I fell asleep about 10 minutes into her statement. Boooooring.

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 Post subject: The Casey Anthony Trial
PostPosted: Wed May 25, 2011 1:27 pm 
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When there so much time between the commission of a crime and the trial, defendants have lots of time to think of really good excuses. If the abuse was real, it might be a mitigating factor. I betcha she got lots of good jailhouse advice regarding the best approach.

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I honestly can't understand why sexual abuse has been thrown into this case.

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 Post subject: The Casey Anthony Trial
PostPosted: Wed May 25, 2011 2:05 pm 
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I suppose this will be the next en vogue defense. Claim you were sexually abused, and it will serve as an excuse for any and all egregious behavior. The horrendous thing about this accusation is that the supposed perpetrator will be forever smeared. He cannot clear himself of this accusation; it's her "word" against his. I guess the hope is that one juror will buy it, and they may.

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 Post subject: The Casey Anthony Trial
PostPosted: Wed May 25, 2011 2:17 pm 
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TexasFilly wrote:
I suppose this will be the next en vogue defense. Claim you were sexually abused, and it will serve as an excuse for any and all egregious behavior. The horrendous thing about this accusation is that the supposed perpetrator will be forever smeared. He cannot clear himself of this accusation; it's her "word" against his. I guess the hope is that one juror will buy it, and they may.

Would it matter if one juror buys it? It is not a defense against the charge of murder; it would only go to the sentencing phase, as I understand it.

About the only people who stood beside Casey Anthony were her parents. I thought they were aggressively hostile to reporters at times. She turned to them for support while incarcerated; we were privy to some of her conversations with them (I never understood why). Now Casey has thrown aside any support or comfort that they might have been able to provide. Pathological liars do tend to burn bridges.

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 Post subject: The Casey Anthony Trial
PostPosted: Wed May 25, 2011 2:36 pm 
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Tolland, the defense has thrown this scurrilous accusation out there to explain why the Defendant did not report her child "missing" for 31 days, and engaged in constant partying, shopping sprees, etc. They have claimed the child accidentally drowned. Therefore, if one juror believes that the Defendant was sexually abused by her father (and apparently her brother, and maybe every male teacher she ever had, who knows?), and it so traumatized her that she engaged in his illogical coverup of an accidental death, it could preclude the jury from convicting the Defendant on the murder charges.

The reason you saw conversations between the Defendant and her parents is that Florida law requires the release of jailhouse videos. So, apparently, the parents stopped visiting her. According to the talking heads, the parents have known about this intended defense for about six weeks, and as late as last weekend, attempted to deposit money in the Defendant's jailhouse commissary account.

The parents are in a tough spot. Their daughter is clearly a sociopath. My personal life observations have lead me to conclude that parents will always try to protect the weakest child. OTOH, they clearly adored their grandchild, and it has to be obvious to them that their daughter murdered the little girl, in cold blood. While they are willing to offer an incredible amount of support to the Defendant, I was pleased to see that did not extend to perjuring themselves in this case.

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 Post subject: The Casey Anthony Trial
PostPosted: Wed May 25, 2011 4:15 pm 
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Everyone, except Casey, is being blamed by the defense. The Mom (who is a piece of work herself) must have left the ladder to the swimming pool up so Caylee could fall in. The father found Caylee, covered it up yet left evidence damning casey just in case the body was ever found. The meter reader found the body and moved it. Both the father and brother abused Casey.

Casey is the victim, not Caylee in this bizarro world. Not sure how her pretending to work, pretending to have a nanny, getting a tattoo and generally partying like its 1999 in the weeks following are going to be someone else's fault. Post traumatic-stress is my guess.

That girl has some seriusly dead eyes.

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 Post subject: The Casey Anthony Trial
PostPosted: Wed May 25, 2011 7:18 pm 
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Is this the case where she claimed she left the girl with a new baby-sitter, but couldn't remember her name? Or am I thinking about an episode of SVU?

Not that both couldn't be also true, too.


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 Post subject: The Casey Anthony Trial
PostPosted: Wed May 25, 2011 8:10 pm 
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DaveMuckey wrote:
Is this the case where she claimed she left the girl with a new baby-sitter, but couldn't remember her name? Or am I thinking about an episode of SVU?

Not that both couldn't be also true, too.


Before the boring prosecutor put me to sleep with her halting, dull, tedious opening argument, I did hear enough of a summary of the facts to catch this portion. Yes, she claimed there was a babysitter, as she explained to her parents why her daughter wasn't with her. But there really was no babysitter. Not only had she not hired one, but she chose a fictional name of a person who didn't even exist in real life.

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 Post subject: The Casey Anthony Trial
PostPosted: Wed May 25, 2011 8:14 pm 
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With a Hispanic name. Cuz when you're a spoiled, young white child murderer be sure to blame someone from another ethnic group for your crime.

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 Post subject: The Casey Anthony Trial
PostPosted: Wed May 25, 2011 8:18 pm 
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TexasFilly wrote:
Therefore, if one juror believes that the Defendant was sexually abused by her father (and apparently her brother, and maybe every male teacher she ever had, who knows?), and it so traumatized her that she engaged in his illogical coverup of an accidental death, it could preclude the jury from convicting the Defendant on the murder charges.


This is an interesting issue. I think the sexual abuse defense is going to be ripped to shreds by the DA. It won't be hard to find many experts who will shred this defense. I am sure that experts can be found who will state that Casey's behavior could be explained by sexual trauma or sexual trauma combined with the trauma of a child's death, but the majority of experts aren't going to be able to support what the defense is charging.

Unless.....

the defense claims that Casey has been experiencing periods of dissociation. This is the only way that I can find for the defense to make the "sexual abuse made my client a pathological liar who did whatever her father told her to do and was then able to act as if her daughter was alive and well for 31 days" defense work. The only psychological disorder that I can think of that could explain Casey's behavior after Caylee's death would be to claim that Casey was already vulnerable to dissociation because of the sexual abuse she suffered. Thus, after finding Caylee dead, Casey dissociated until her mother called 911, and that confrontation by her mother snapped Casey back to reality.

While some victims of sexual abuse do dissociate during their assault, dissociative disorders are extremely rare. 1 out of 3 women are sexually assaulted in their lifetime; one out of five boys are sexually assaulted during childhood. Sexual abuse, even the reoccurring type that Casey claims occurred rarely causes dissociative disorders.

I think that this is the defense teams last option to defend Casey. I don't think they really know where they are going with their psychological defense. I think that the defense didn't know that they were going to be forced to claim that Casey knew Caylee was dead the moment she died until the jury was officially selected and they had a clear idea of what exactly the DA was going to do. I think this is a last minute defense and that they are flying by the seat of their pants. The sexual assault claim has been around for over a year; I think that was shared with the public in an attempt to explain why Casey lies so much. I don't think that the sexual assault claim was going to be the key to the entire defense.

While the defense will be able to find experts to support that Casey repressed memories of sexual abuse, they will have an extremely difficult time finding good experts who can strongly argue that such abuse would lead to the kind of dissociation that is required for this defense to work. The death of a child could cause dissociation. But Casey's behavior for 31 days after the death of Caylee just doesn't support that she was in a dissociative state for 31 days. Casey was too high functioning to be in a dissociative state for 31 days. Her behavior didn't radically change after the search for Caylee began.

I don't see how the defense can make an "I lie because I was abused and lied about my child's death because I am a pathological liar" defense work without claiming that dissociation was involved, and that that dissociation let Casey appear as if nothing happened. Casey's boyfriend and friends stated on the bench that Casey was her same old self during those 31 days. If Casey was dissociating, she wouldn't have been her same old self.

TFB Legal Team, what do you think about the success of a ""I lie because I was abused and lied about my child's death because I am a pathological liar" defense? Does the jury have to come to a unanimous decision to find Casey guilty of murder? If I am correct, they have to come to a unanimous decision to sentence her to death, but do they have to all agree that she is guilty of murder for the court to find her guilty of murder? If they don't have a unanimous decision, how many members of the jury have to say that Casey is guilty of murder in order for the court to find her guilty of murder? Finally, how fucked up is Casey's defense team? Are they capable of pulling this off?

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 Post subject: The Casey Anthony Trial
PostPosted: Wed May 25, 2011 8:24 pm 
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LMK, yes a conviction of murder (or any crime that I am aware of) must be unanimous.

I have some questions for you:

1. This disorder of which you speak, would it cause the Defendant to lie, continually, until the morning of opening statements?

2. On a more serious note, wouldn't trauma result in a flat affect, not a happy go luck, let's party my ass of and get tats affect? The State also has hours of tapes of jailhouse conversations with her parents where the Defendant is: angry; frustrated; manipulative and threaty. Seems to be quite a range of emotions to me.

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 Post subject: The Casey Anthony Trial
PostPosted: Wed May 25, 2011 8:25 pm 
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LM K wrote:
TFB Legal Team, what do you think about the success of a ""I lie because I was abused and lied about my child's death because I am a pathological liar" defense? Does the jury have to come to a unanimous decision to find Casey guilty of murder? If I am correct, they have to come to a unanimous decision to sentence her to death, but do they have to all agree that she is guilty of murder for the court to find her guilty of murder? If they don't have a unanimous decision, how many members of the jury have to say that Casey is guilty of murder in order for the court to find her guilty of murder? Finally, how fucked up is Casey's defense team? Are they capable of pulling this off?


I think the only way this even possibly works is that eventually, after she loses and gets the death penalty and loses all her direct appeals, she files for post-conviction relief based on ineffective assistance of counsel.

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 Post subject: The Casey Anthony Trial
PostPosted: Wed May 25, 2011 8:30 pm 
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LM K - I am very interested in MPD (multiple personality disorder). Those rare people who suffer from this horrific mental illness are almost universally victims of sexual abuse who have escaped the constant torture of such abuse by creating fantasy worlds into which they could retreat. The problem Casey Anthony has with her defense is that she cannot credibly demonstrate she has MPD. She was a party girl before she committed infanticide and she was a party girl until her arrest and jailing ended it for her. I don't think her lawyer will argue MPD, either.

Anthony also has a problem proving she was ever the victim of any abuse. And the only source of evidence on that point is going to be the pathological liar (according to her defense counsel) whose name is Casey Anthony.

Her lawyer should have sought some kind of a diminished capacity defense. But even that would probably not have worked because of the callous way this child killer partied once relieved of the inconvenient burden of her tiny daughter.

Casey Anthony needed an exceptional lawyer to defend her if she had any chance of avoiding LWOP or death. Instead, she got a cut rate strip mall lawyer who will probably be there as a tearful witness when she is executed.

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 Post subject: The Casey Anthony Trial
PostPosted: Wed May 25, 2011 8:31 pm 
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Sterngard Friegen wrote:
Her lawyer should have sought some kind of a diminished capacity defense. But even that would probably not have worked because of the callous way this child killer partied once relieved of the inconvenient burden of her tiny daughter.


Her lawyer should have some kind of diminished capacity himself if ever prosecuted for felony suckitude as an attorney.

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 Post subject: The Casey Anthony Trial
PostPosted: Wed May 25, 2011 8:34 pm 
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WFTV's Legal Analyst Bill Sheaffer:

Day 12, 5/24 13 mins

Day 13, 5/25 11 mins

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 Post subject: The Casey Anthony Trial
PostPosted: Wed May 25, 2011 8:35 pm 
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Her lawyers tactics seem more likely to inflame the jury and get her a death sentence than they are to get her an acquittal.

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 Post subject: The Casey Anthony Trial
PostPosted: Wed May 25, 2011 8:41 pm 
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poutine wrote:
Her lawyers tactics seem more likely to inflame the jury and get her a death sentence than they are to get her an acquittal.


That is my sense as well. I almost wonder if the defense is actually setting this up for a good appeal rather than trying to defend Casey from being found guilty of murder this time around.

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 Post subject: The Casey Anthony Trial
PostPosted: Wed May 25, 2011 10:23 pm 
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LM K wrote:
poutine wrote:
Her lawyers tactics seem more likely to inflame the jury and get her a death sentence than they are to get her an acquittal.


That is my sense as well. I almost wonder if the defense is actually setting this up for a good appeal rather than trying to defend Casey from being found guilty of murder this time around.


The only "good appeal" that doing a shitty job at trial gets a Defendant is that of ineffective assistance of counsel.

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 Post subject: The Casey Anthony Trial
PostPosted: Wed May 25, 2011 11:00 pm 
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TexasFilly wrote:
LM K wrote:
poutine wrote:
Her lawyers tactics seem more likely to inflame the jury and get her a death sentence than they are to get her an acquittal.


That is my sense as well. I almost wonder if the defense is actually setting this up for a good appeal rather than trying to defend Casey from being found guilty of murder this time around.


The only "good appeal" that doing a shitty job at trial gets a Defendant is that of ineffective assistance of counsel.


True....

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 Post subject: The Casey Anthony Trial
PostPosted: Thu May 26, 2011 7:21 am 
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I am watching George Anthony's testimony. Turns out that Casey had both of her parents in the delivery room when Caylee was born.

So Casey claims her father sexually abused her repeatedly throughout childhood. She also has him in the delivery room while she was giving birth?

Yeah; I totally believe Casey Anthony's claim that her father sexually abused her for years.

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 Post subject: The Casey Anthony Trial
PostPosted: Thu May 26, 2011 9:49 am 
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LM K wrote:
poutine wrote:
Her lawyers tactics seem more likely to inflame the jury and get her a death sentence than they are to get her an acquittal.


That is my sense as well. I almost wonder if the defense is actually setting this up for a good appeal rather than trying to defend Casey from being found guilty of murder this time around.


I think they're trying to get just one rogue juror to buy this BS. It would take just one to get a hung jury, a mistrial or some sort of bargain within the jury to take the death penalty off the table or convict on a lesser offense. Wait for when they discuss instructions to the jury because I think that will tell us what her attorney is really up to. I bet he proposes and argues hard for letting the jury consider lesser charges like 2nd degree murder, or maybe all the way down to accident but abuse of a corpse and lying to police.


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