Falsehoods unchallenged only fester and grow.


All times are UTC - 5 hours [ DST ]




Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 352 posts ]  Go to page Previous  1 ... 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, 11, 12 ... 15  Next   
Author Message
PostPosted: Sun May 22, 2011 12:26 am 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Tue Sep 08, 2009 6:36 am
Posts: 5173
Location: Belize City
Occupation: Visiting doctors.
poutine wrote:
Enabler? His wife? Just because she said she was actually "proud" that he was still attempting to "seduce" young women?

See page 2 of http://nyti.ms/jhTLLr


Quote:
Asked in 2006 by L’Express if she suffered from his reputation as a womanizer, she said: “No! I’m even proud of it. It’s important to seduce, for a politician. As long as he is still attracted to me, and I to him, it is sufficient.”


Stunned, I am. :shock:

_________________
If a bunch of religious nuts can vote away your fundamental civil rights, then your rights are not self-evident, inalienable, or endowed by God. Quod erat demonstrandum. -- Stonekettle Station
ImageImageImageImage


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Sun May 22, 2011 12:36 am 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Tue Oct 26, 2010 9:56 pm
Posts: 9332
Whatever4 wrote:
Quote:
Asked in 2006 by L’Express if she suffered from his reputation as a womanizer, she said: “No! I’m even proud of it. It’s important to seduce, for a politician. As long as he is still attracted to me, and I to him, it is sufficient.”


Stunned, I am. :shock:


She is as horrible a human as her vile husband. Rape is not "seduction." Her vile husband is not accused of "seduction."

_________________
L—d! said my mother, what is all this story about? — A Cock and a Bull, said Yorick — And one of the best of its kind I ever heard. -- Sterne


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Sun May 22, 2011 10:16 am 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Wed Aug 05, 2009 12:32 am
Posts: 19906
Location: FEMA Camp 17 -- Malibu (Hey! You! Get off the lawn!)
Occupation: Schadenfreude artist.
She's been an enabler for a long time.

_________________
When there are a finite number of ways to screw something up, Orly Taitz will find an infinite number of ways to do so. (The Sternsig Rule.)


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Sun May 22, 2011 12:13 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Tue Oct 26, 2010 9:56 pm
Posts: 9332
ZorbasLeGreque wrote:
The interview was in 2006.


Oops, should have read it before responding.

Guess it's one of those things that are harsher in hindsight.

_________________
L—d! said my mother, what is all this story about? — A Cock and a Bull, said Yorick — And one of the best of its kind I ever heard. -- Sterne


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Sun May 22, 2011 4:15 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Tue Oct 26, 2010 9:56 pm
Posts: 9332
ZorbasLeGreque wrote:
A Legal Lohengrin wrote:
If the prosecution had letters rogatory submitted to a French court, that court would have the power to compel her testimony. It might not be good strategy, though, to compel an angry witness to testify. I also think it absolutely absurd that she claims the presumption of innocence doesn't exist in the country which did most to expand the concept since it first arose in English common law.


2 questions and 1 statement:

- have you any source in French law for your statement ?
- if Tristane Banon refuses to testify, can her TV interview be introduced in the New York trial ?
- a "prep walk" like here and in other prominent cases does really not go well with the "presumption of innocence".


Just the Hague Evidence Convention, the Hague Conference on Private International Law, the Hague Civil Procedure Convention, and the Hague Service Convention.

_________________
L—d! said my mother, what is all this story about? — A Cock and a Bull, said Yorick — And one of the best of its kind I ever heard. -- Sterne


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Sun May 22, 2011 5:01 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Wed Aug 05, 2009 12:32 am
Posts: 19906
Location: FEMA Camp 17 -- Malibu (Hey! You! Get off the lawn!)
Occupation: Schadenfreude artist.
ZorbasLeGreque wrote:
- if Tristane Banon refuses to testify, can her TV interview be introduced in the New York trial ?

No. It would be hearsay.

_________________
When there are a finite number of ways to screw something up, Orly Taitz will find an infinite number of ways to do so. (The Sternsig Rule.)


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Sun May 22, 2011 5:28 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Sat Apr 16, 2011 12:40 am
Posts: 5517
Occupation: retired
ZorbasLeGreque wrote:
Very good info about the "missing hour" here:

http://www.iwatchnews.org/2011/05/21/47 ... mf-chief-0


The time line is pretty well filled out with a succession of supervisors getting her to tell what happened. If another employee told her the suite was empty before she entered to clean, it supports her story as well. I don't see anything so far that would support a set up theory.

_________________
Mark Twain
Quote:
Research shows that 87.666 per cent of all statistics are made up.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Sun May 22, 2011 5:33 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Wed Aug 05, 2009 12:32 am
Posts: 19906
Location: FEMA Camp 17 -- Malibu (Hey! You! Get off the lawn!)
Occupation: Schadenfreude artist.
DS-K is brunt toast.

_________________
When there are a finite number of ways to screw something up, Orly Taitz will find an infinite number of ways to do so. (The Sternsig Rule.)


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Sun May 22, 2011 5:48 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Wed Aug 05, 2009 12:32 am
Posts: 19906
Location: FEMA Camp 17 -- Malibu (Hey! You! Get off the lawn!)
Occupation: Schadenfreude artist.
ZorbasLeGreque wrote:
Sterngard Friegen wrote:
ZorbasLeGreque wrote:
- if Tristane Banon refuses to testify, can her TV interview be introduced in the New York trial ?

No. It would be hearsay.


I suspected something like this answer. But seriously - is the jury watching and hearing a witness of a crime telling his story on TV like a third person reporting on something the witness told him ? I remember that for dead witnesses the rules on hearsay have been softened. Isn´t a witness who refuses to show up and who can not be forced to testify equal to a "dead"witness?

The deposition of a witness who is "unavailable" may be used in a civil case. I think the rule may be the same in a criminal case for testimony at a preliminary hearing in some states (even though defense counsel may not have had reason to cross-examine the witness in the same way counsel would have done at trial). If there is sufficient evidence that a defendant as to whom a witness has testified in a grand jury proceeding made the witness "unavailable" by the defendant's actions (i.e., murdered by him), his testimony may be used in many jurisdictions, too.

_________________
When there are a finite number of ways to screw something up, Orly Taitz will find an infinite number of ways to do so. (The Sternsig Rule.)


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Sun May 22, 2011 8:33 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Wed Feb 02, 2011 4:30 pm
Posts: 2912
Location: The Great Pariah State of Arizona
ZorbasLeGreque wrote:
2 questions and 1 statement:

- have you any source in French law for your statement ?
- if Tristane Banon refuses to testify, can her TV interview be introduced in the New York trial ?
- a "prep walk" like here and in other prominent cases does really not go well with the "presumption of innocence".


There are many things Americans can be criticized for in the universe. Their criminal justice system is not one of them. Conducting jury trials is simply one thing they do with more procedural and evidentiary protections for the defendant than the systems of almost if not all countries in the world.

Sure, there are good arguments I've seen for why the perp walk is not appropriate. But there are also good arguments for why defendants should be entitled to a trial by jury rather than trial by some institutionalized judge. France doesn't do that. There are good arguments for why the detailed rulings of judges should be open to the public and transparent. France disagrees. There are good arguments against searches and seizures of evidence against a defendant without a judicial warrant. France disagrees. There are reasons why Americans do not believe in arresting suspects without a warrant. France disagrees.

When French critics attack the "presumption of innocence" in the United States, those attacks need to be put in the proper context.

_________________
Image Image Image Image Image


"What part of 'second' don't you understand?" -Judge Morrison England


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Mon May 23, 2011 11:52 am 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Thu Sep 30, 2010 2:02 pm
Posts: 10980
Location: Stalag 13 Okanagan, WA 98840
Occupation: Drone Maintenance Officer - FAA Licensed and Certified "We Fix Drones©" Call (206) 622-0460 to schedule routine maintenance or repair.
poutine wrote:
ZorbasLeGreque wrote:
2 questions and 1 statement:

- have you any source in French law for your statement ?
- if Tristane Banon refuses to testify, can her TV interview be introduced in the New York trial ?
- a "prep walk" like here and in other prominent cases does really not go well with the "presumption of innocence".


There are many things Americans can be criticized for in the universe. Their criminal justice system is not one of them. Conducting jury trials is simply one thing they do with more procedural and evidentiary protections for the defendant than the systems of almost if not all countries in the world.

Sure, there are good arguments I've seen for why the perp walk is not appropriate. But there are also good arguments for why defendants should be entitled to a trial by jury rather than trial by some institutionalized judge. France doesn't do that. There are good arguments for why the detailed rulings of judges should be open to the public and transparent. France disagrees. There are good arguments against searches and seizures of evidence against a defendant without a judicial warrant. France disagrees. There are reasons why Americans do not believe in arresting suspects without a warrant. France disagrees.

When French critics attack the "presumption of innocence" in the United States, those attacks need to be put in the proper context.


French law is why the Louisiana state laws are so errr. strange...

_________________
Image ImageImage

You can follow the action, which gets you good pictures.
You can follow your instincts, which'll probably get you in trouble.

Or... you can follow the money...
which nine times out of ten will get you closer to the truth.
"The Two Jakes"


Remember, Orly NEVAH disappoints!


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Mon May 23, 2011 8:08 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Tue Oct 26, 2010 9:56 pm
Posts: 9332
ZorbasLeGreque wrote:
All these conventions deal with Civil or Commercial Matters. I really do not see that a US criminal court can force a French subject living not in the USA to testify.


The State Department disagrees with your interpretation.

Further, a U.S. court would not be forcing a French citizen to testify. A French court would be doing that, pursuant to French law. If the procedure is done properly and comports with international and municipal law, a French court should not resist the proper procedure, especially if they want our courts to cooperate with their requests in the future. Since letters rogatory are also addressed by French municipal law, I don't see why a French court would break a French law. Nations generally uphold their treaty obligations when no core national interest is at stake. They rarely violate them simply out of a fit of pique, but obey laws when opinio juris dictates.

There might be valid reasons for refusing such a request, but I can't think of one offhand. They are generally available both for prosecution and defense purposes.

_________________
L—d! said my mother, what is all this story about? — A Cock and a Bull, said Yorick — And one of the best of its kind I ever heard. -- Sterne


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Mon May 23, 2011 8:24 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Wed Feb 02, 2011 4:30 pm
Posts: 2912
Location: The Great Pariah State of Arizona
As Loh pointed out earlier though, if Banon is already whining and grumbling about her unhappiness about the prosecution for some bizarre reason, it's doubtful the prosecution would want her as a witness in the first place.

It is also a major procedural pain to force witnesses from other jurisdictions to appear in your case in that it causes all kinds of scheduling havoc and logistical problems due to the uncertainty of the outcome of any legal disputes. This is true not only for a witness in France who a prosecutor would want to testify in a US court, but for a witness in a US state separate from the other US state in which a trial takes place. I've seen this battle played out in cases I've personally handled. The lesson usually learned is that if a witness doesn't want to appear, he or she is probably not going to have to. (granted: I'm not a federal prosecutor handling high-profile criminal cases, where the stakes are much higher)

_________________
Image Image Image Image Image


"What part of 'second' don't you understand?" -Judge Morrison England


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Mon May 23, 2011 8:36 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Tue Oct 26, 2010 9:56 pm
Posts: 9332
poutine wrote:
It is also a major procedural pain to force witnesses from other jurisdictions to appear in your case in that it causes all kinds of scheduling havoc and logistical problems due to the uncertainty of the outcome of any legal disputes. This is true not only for a witness in France who a prosecutor would want to testify in a US court, but for a witness in a US state separate from the other US state in which a trial takes place. I've seen this battle played out in cases I've personally handled. The lesson usually learned is that if a witness doesn't want to appear, he or she is probably not going to have to. (granted: I'm not a federal prosecutor handling high-profile criminal cases, where the stakes are much higher)


That's where most of the recent case law is from, specifically terrorism trials. This case, while it is going to be very high profile, involves a state prosecution in a state court, and it is unlikely to be worth the highly expensive and procedurally complex task of retaining French counsel, filing with a U.S. District Court, shepherding the procedure through any challenges by the French witness (who may have valid claims for whatever equivalent France has to protective orders), and the apparent hostility of the witness toward the prosecution makes the whole effort unrewarding. With a limited, albeit large budget, it is simply not likely to be worth it to get this particular witness, especially if they can find a more willing witness. When a witness is willing, they're not going to make it difficult on you to get their testimony. In this case, they might even find witnesses willing to come to the U.S. to testify, and that would be a lot better. In that event, since the unwilling witness will only provide cumulative testimony anyway, why bother?

I was just pointing out that we do have these procedures for obtaining testimony from foreign witnesses, and they have the same rights to seek assistance from our courts. Nations are generally pretty good about adhering to these processes, so long as the rather tricky process is followed correctly.

_________________
L—d! said my mother, what is all this story about? — A Cock and a Bull, said Yorick — And one of the best of its kind I ever heard. -- Sterne


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Mon May 23, 2011 9:42 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Wed Aug 05, 2009 12:32 am
Posts: 19906
Location: FEMA Camp 17 -- Malibu (Hey! You! Get off the lawn!)
Occupation: Schadenfreude artist.
I have a case now, which has been dragging on for years, where a witness whose deposition I took several years ago is now 90, but still completely competent. She is a delightful old lady who is still alert and mobile. But she does not want to testify in my case, which is going to jury trial in September. She has made her position very clear, and snapped at me the last time I talked to her on the phone. I learned after I took her deposition that she has knowledge of one small but important fact that no one asked her about (including me) at her deposition. While she knows that fact -- and told me so two years ago -- when I last talked to her she claimed she no longer remembered it, or remembered it clearly. Based on the way she told me I thought she was lying to get out of testifying. Would she also lie under oath?

The associate in my firm working with me on this case suggests that we subpoena her and force her to appear (but provide her with transportation), since she has that one important piece of important information to provide. I have explained to the young Jedi that a witness you want to call who can help your case, who doesn't want to appear, can sink your case instead. Just when I ask her the money question she could say, "Mr. Friegen, you know I didn't want to testify, and now you want me to lie."

Bye bye strong case.

I figured out another way to get in her testimony -- from my own client based on a state of mind exception to the hearsay rule. It won't be quite as good as her testifying, but I can't risk it. Likewise, here, if the Manhattan D.A. has a strong case -- and the forensics seem to suggest the D.A. does -- why put on a reluctant witness who won't add much but who could hurt your case?

_________________
When there are a finite number of ways to screw something up, Orly Taitz will find an infinite number of ways to do so. (The Sternsig Rule.)


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Mon May 23, 2011 10:20 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Sat Apr 16, 2011 12:40 am
Posts: 5517
Occupation: retired
Tests confirm that DS-K 's DNA was found on the blouse of the house cleaner who is alleging sexual assault.
http://www.nbcnewyork.com/news/local/DS ... 63309.html

Other tests are still being performed on other materials from the hotel room.

_________________
Mark Twain
Quote:
Research shows that 87.666 per cent of all statistics are made up.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Mon May 23, 2011 11:01 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Wed Feb 02, 2011 4:30 pm
Posts: 2912
Location: The Great Pariah State of Arizona
esseff44 wrote:
Tests confirm that DS-K 's DNA was found on the blouse of the house cleaner who is alleging sexual assault.
http://www.nbcnewyork.com/news/local/DS ... 63309.html

Other tests are still being performed on other materials from the hotel room.


But it was consensual! She had sex with him suddenly, then ran out into the hall frantically crying as a set-up to frame him. The jury will surely buy that. :roll:

_________________
Image Image Image Image Image


"What part of 'second' don't you understand?" -Judge Morrison England


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Mon May 23, 2011 11:18 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Sat Apr 16, 2011 12:40 am
Posts: 5517
Occupation: retired
poutine wrote:
esseff44 wrote:
Tests confirm that DS-K 's DNA was found on the blouse of the house cleaner who is alleging sexual assault.
http://www.nbcnewyork.com/news/local/DS ... 63309.html

Other tests are still being performed on other materials from the hotel room.


But it was consensual! She had sex with him suddenly, then ran out into the hall frantically crying as a set-up to frame him. The jury will surely buy that. :roll:


There is a very strange statement here attributed to his defense team about how the assault may be consensual.

http://www.nypost.com/p/news/local/stra ... z1NDKLnpA3

Then, there are the two hotel staff members he attempted to lure to his suite for a drink. To top it off, there was his remark to the flight attendance just moments before his arrest. A true lout.

_________________
Mark Twain
Quote:
Research shows that 87.666 per cent of all statistics are made up.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Tue May 24, 2011 3:17 am 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Wed Feb 18, 2009 8:42 am
Posts: 2246
Location: left coast
Occupation: NOTICE: I am on this board for the purpose of intelligent discussion. If you disagree with my point of view and want to discuss and debate ideas in a civil and respectful manner, I am happy to engage and participate. But if you want to make things personal through insults, ad hominem, and deliberately mischaracterizing what I have said -- sorry, I won't engage with trolls.
I would just point out that "prior bad acts" are presumptively inadmissible in a criminal case. Obviously they do get in, but never expressly to prove a person's propensity to commit a crime. That is, if Tristane Bannon were to show up in a courthouse in NY, ready to testify for the prosecution,, any defense attorney worth his or her salt would be fighting like hell to keep that testimony out.

I realize that it would come in under the Federal Rules of Evidence, because FRE 413 specifically allows it -- but this is NY State proceeding. I don't practice in NY so I'm not particularly familiar with NY rules of evidence -- but I don't see anything here that would authorize admission of such evidence, particularly not in the case in chief: http://law.justia.com/codes/new-york/20 ... tda60.html
(Impeachment is another story entirely. If the defendant takes the stand in his own defense, testifies that the sex was consensual and that in any case he is always a perfect gentleman and would never dream of touching a woman without her explicit consent .... well then, all bets are off).

I'd also point out that when a defendant is a multi-millionaire, there are some other options available to defense counsel in a sexual assault case that probably present a safer alternative than actually going to trial.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Tue May 24, 2011 3:51 am 
Offline

Joined: Sat Aug 08, 2009 5:52 am
Posts: 2157
Location: The Little Red Dot
Occupation: ASEAN bureau chief; Keeper of the Bahasa; CSI for Semiconductors
ZorbasLeGreque wrote:
Curious Blue wrote:

I'd also point out that when a defendant is a multi-millionaire, there are some other options available to defense counsel in a sexual assault case that probably present a safer alternative than actually going to trial.


I would not presume that DSK is really that rich. His wife has some inherited dough.


I would think the amount of his bail would be sufficient.

_________________
Image


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Tue May 24, 2011 6:04 am 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Fri Jan 23, 2009 3:53 pm
Posts: 12869
Location: location, location
Occupation: Ruler of the Intarwebz
Quote:
Tests confirm that DS-K 's DNA was found on the blouse of the house cleaner who is alleging sexual assault.
And yet this man is free on $1 million bail.

Remember I said that if you have enough money, you can get a whole different level of justice in this great land of ours?

Anyone can afford justice in America. But it takes real money to buy yourself a little INjustice.

Quote:
I'd also point out that when a defendant is a multi-millionaire, there are some other options available to defense counsel in a sexual assault case that probably present a safer alternative than actually going to trial.
Yep.

_________________
... then one day I found some birthers on my planet. Image


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Tue May 24, 2011 6:33 am 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Fri Jan 23, 2009 3:53 pm
Posts: 12869
Location: location, location
Occupation: Ruler of the Intarwebz
ZorbasLeGreque wrote:
Dershowitz is not very impressed by the work of DSK´s lawyers. He thinks they talk too much too early.

Dershowitz must have forgotten that their priority right now isn't to get DSK exonerated. Their priority is to bring in a lot more celebrity clients to their law firm, whenever the celebs are charged with criminal offenses. At this stage of the game, publicity for the lawyers is Job One. I mean, the guy brutally attacked a woman and is toast, n'est ce pas? 'Specially with the DNA evidence?

But the law firm is going to be around for many years, and those guys are hungry. ;;)

_________________
... then one day I found some birthers on my planet. Image


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Tue May 24, 2011 9:59 am 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Wed Feb 02, 2011 4:30 pm
Posts: 2912
Location: The Great Pariah State of Arizona
In another example of the cultural differences in play in this case, the French media has now published the name of the victim and her photos, while expressing confusion over why the American media hadn't already done so. But remember, they were outraged at photos of the perp walk!

http://www.globalpost.com/dispatch/news ... ape-victim

Before you get your anti-French venom riled up though, consider that multiple sources report an interesting phenomenon currently taking place within the French media: one of introspection, rather than of anti-Americanism, as the press reacts to various features of our justice system and society that the French aren't accustomed to. (A perfect example is the fact that both of these articles were brought to my attention by a French journalist I follow on twitter).

http://drezner.foreignpolicy.com/posts/ ... used_to_be

_________________
Image Image Image Image Image


"What part of 'second' don't you understand?" -Judge Morrison England


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Tue May 24, 2011 10:56 am 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Sat Feb 05, 2011 8:18 pm
Posts: 2423
Location: Paris, France
What is really getting to me is that this man is in his 60s and I am having a hard time imagining this kind of behaviour with the hotel receptionists, the flight attendant etc is something new for him. That he could rise to such a high position while basically acting like a pig truly disappoints me.

_________________
Incorrible. Please do not incorrige me.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Tue May 24, 2011 11:15 am 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Wed Aug 05, 2009 12:32 am
Posts: 19906
Location: FEMA Camp 17 -- Malibu (Hey! You! Get off the lawn!)
Occupation: Schadenfreude artist.
If the reports are true: Emotionally he is a scarred, inadequate person. He has to prove his manhood, over and over. And it quickly lapses into domination and violence. He is a sick pig. And a criminal.

_________________
When there are a finite number of ways to screw something up, Orly Taitz will find an infinite number of ways to do so. (The Sternsig Rule.)


Top
 Profile  
 
Display posts from previous:  Sort by  
Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 352 posts ]  Go to page Previous  1 ... 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, 11, 12 ... 15  Next   

All times are UTC - 5 hours [ DST ]


Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 0 guests


You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot post attachments in this forum

Jump to:  
View new posts | View active topics



Powered by phpBB® Forum Software © phpBB Group