Religious Threadjacks

[Tiredretiredlawyer]

As a strict Southern Baptist explained to me, "That wine didn't have alcohol in it."

My muted response was:

[neonzx]

I got tricked once by a church. At communion, they served not wine but grape juice. Didn't at all taste like the blood of Christ.

[Estiveo]

I went to one of those once. Welch's & Wonder bread.

[jcolvin2]

I got tricked once by a church. At communion, they served not wine but grape juice. Didn't at all taste like the blood of Christ.

When we were kids, my sister and I referred to the white wine our Episcopal Church used for communion (Muscatel?) as “the plasma of Christ”

[roadscholar]

I got tricked once by a church. At communion, they served not wine but grape juice. Didn't at all taste like the blood of Christ.

When we were kids, my sister and I referred to the white wine our Episcopal Church used for communion (Muscatel?) as “the plasma of Christ”

[MsDaisy 2]

I went to a Baptist Sunday school with the neighbor kids once when I was 11. The teacher was telling a story of how modern humans lived with dinosaurs, so of course I had to correct her on that account. Finally she went and got the preacher after me and after I explained that he was also wrong on that issue he told me it may be better if I didn’t come back to his church. I told him I agreed with that because they didn’t teach the truth in his church.

One other time a few years later I went to another church to hear my friend from school sing and some man behind me fell out in the floor and started having what I thought was a seizure. It was very creepy because no one moved a muscle or said a single word. Finally I shouted “I’SN’T SOMEONE GOING TO HELP THAT POOR MAN!”

I was taken aside and informed that he was not having a seizure that it was God speaking through him. I looked around and everyone was looking at me. I grabbed my purse and ran out of there and didn’t stop running until I got home two blocks away.

I have since been to other churches on occasion where everything was pretty much normal. I like the Unitarians, those guys don't threaten you with eternal damnation and they have great potlucks!

[Volkonski]

Yes. Yes we do.

[pipistrelle]

My Baptist church did saltine crackers and Hi-C. Remember that stuff?

[Flatpoint High]

I got tricked once by a church. At communion, they served not wine but grape juice. Didn't at all taste like the blood of Christ.

you're lucky it wasn't Mogen David or Maneschevitz

[RTH10260]

As a strict Southern Baptist explained to me, "That wine didn't have alcohol in it."

My muted response was:

Must have turned magickally to vinegar, his ways are mysterious

[keith]

It always amused me that Methodists could be (publicly at least) anti-booze.

Look, Jesus turned water into wine - what stronger religious recommendation could one ask for?

When I asked my Methodist preacher that exact question, he said, and I quote: "Well back then, wine was non-alcoholic".

I never did get around to asking him about why it was his responsibility, as a guest, to supply the wine.

ETA: ahh. Ninja'd by TRL and the Baptists!

[Suranis]

When I asked my Methodist preacher that exact question, he said, and I quote: "Well back then, wine was non-alcoholic".

I never did get around to asking him about why it was his responsibility, as a guest, to supply the wine.

Lets just ignore the descriptions of getting black out Drunk from wine in the Bible then, shall we?

Ephesians 5:18
And do not get drunk with wine, for that is dissipation, but be filled with the Spirit,
Genesis 9:21
He drank of the wine and became drunk, and uncovered himself inside his tent.
Isaiah 5:11
Woe to those who rise early in the morning that they may pursue strong drink,
Who stay up late in the evening that wine may inflame them!
Isaiah 51:21
Therefore, please hear this, you afflicted,
Who are drunk, but not with wine:
Genesis 9:24
When Noah awoke from his wine, he knew what his youngest son had done to him.

Source: https://bible.knowing-jesus.com/topics/Drunkenness

Bah. Utter silliness.

[keith]

When I asked my Methodist preacher that exact question, he said, and I quote: "Well back then, wine was non-alcoholic".

I never did get around to asking him about why it was his responsibility, as a guest, to supply the wine.

Lets just ignore the descriptions of getting black out Drunk from wine in the Bible then, shall we?

Ephesians 5:18
And do not get drunk with wine, for that is dissipation, but be filled with the Spirit,
Genesis 9:21
He drank of the wine and became drunk, and uncovered himself inside his tent.
Isaiah 5:11
Woe to those who rise early in the morning that they may pursue strong drink,
Who stay up late in the evening that wine may inflame them!
Isaiah 51:21
Therefore, please hear this, you afflicted,
Who are drunk, but not with wine:
Genesis 9:24
When Noah awoke from his wine, he knew what his youngest son had done to him.

Source: https://bible.knowing-jesus.com/topics/Drunkenness

Bah. Utter silliness.

Um, your quotes from the old testament are not responsive to the discussion about Christians claiming that Christian era wine technology was alchohol free. It is also not responsive to the query about why would Jesus turn water into wine when the quotes you offered might be in opposition to wine.

I say "might be" because I don't read them as against wine - I see them as against drunkeness - but I understand others read it differently. (and Isaiah 51:21 isn't even about wine as such).

Bah. Utter misreading of the text.

[Suranis]

Um, your quotes from the old testament are not responsive to the discussion about Christians claiming that Christian era wine technology was alchohol free. It is also not responsive to the query about why would Jesus turn water into wine when the quotes you offered might be in opposition to wine.

I say "might be" because I don't read them as against wine - I see them as against drunkeness - but I understand others read it differently. (and Isaiah 51:21 isn't even about wine as such).

Bah. Utter misreading of the text.

Um. Ephesians is New Testament.

And since we are narrowing things down to New Testament for goalpost moving, here is Peter saying flat out you can get drunk from wine.

Acts 2:13-15

But others were mocking and saying, "They are full of sweet wine." But Peter, taking his stand with the eleven, raised his voice and declared to them: "Men of Judea and all you who live in Jerusalem, let this be known to you and give heed to my words. "For these men are not drunk, as you suppose, for it is only the third hour of the day;

Yes bullshit is bullshit

[keith]

Yeah, I spaced the Ephesians ref. Sorry.

But so yeah, you have just quoted the biblical discussion that demonstrates that TRL's Baptist and my Methodist preachers were full of crap.

[Sam the Centipede]

Ah, apologetics! Literally meaning arguing in defense (of a faith). But in modern English an "apology" is no longer a defense of one's actions or words but rather an acknowledgement of wrongdoing combined with an expression of contrition.

So my modern mind can't get away from the image of a gaggle of academic apologists mournfully muttering to each other "I'm sorry the Bible is inaccurate and inconsistent and I regret ever promoting it. But other sacred texts are no better."

[northland10]

It always amused me that Methodists could be (publicly at least) anti-booze.

Look, Jesus turned water into wine - what stronger religious recommendation could one ask for?

The great mystery of the Methodist Eucharist is when wine transforms into Welch's.

I learned that joke in a class at a Methodist seminary.

[Frater I*I]

It always amused me that Methodists could be (publicly at least) anti-booze.

Look, Jesus turned water into wine - what stronger religious recommendation could one ask for?

"And...ummm..Jesus...I got this here sage...if ya can man...you know..."



I'll come in again...

[Foggy]

[keith]

It always amused me that Methodists could be (publicly at least) anti-booze.

Look, Jesus turned water into wine - what stronger religious recommendation could one ask for?

The great mystery of the Methodist Eucharist is when wine transforms into Welch's.

I learned that joke in a class at a Methodist seminary.

[northland10]

It always amused me that Methodists could be (publicly at least) anti-booze.

Look, Jesus turned water into wine - what stronger religious recommendation could one ask for?

"And...ummm..Jesus...I got this here sage...if ya can man...you know..."

I'll come in again...

[RTH10260]

pm. ninja'ded at viewtopic.php?p=242785#p242785

New role for Amy Coney Barrett’s father inside Christian sect sparks controversy
Alleged abuse survivors at People of Praise worry Michael Coney may block group’s handling of sexual abuse from becoming public

Stephanie Kirchgaessner in Washington
Mon 29 Jan 2024 12.00 CET

Survivors of alleged childhood abuse inside the People of Praise, a secretive Christian sect that counts Amy Coney Barrett as a member, are voicing concerns that the supreme court justice’s father, who was recently promoted to a new role, may seek to block information about the group’s historic handling of sexual abuse becoming public.

Barrett, a conservative justice who was appointed by former US president Donald Trump, has never publicly disclosed her participation in the covenant Christian community, which some former members have compared to a cult.

Her father, Michael Coney, a Louisiana-based lawyer who worked for Shell and has been a longtime member of the PoP, was this month appointed to serve as the group’s new legal counsel. Coney is also taking the helm of a “consultation team” that, internal correspondence seen by the Guardian shows, has been dealing with “issues of concern” to the group’s 1,100 members, including “misuse of authority” inside the PoP, “lack of accountable leadership”, and “mistrust of the board”.

Coney’s appointment is part of a broader shake-up inside the PoP, whose leadership has been consumed by a contentious debate over the legitimacy of the 2021 election of its current leader, Charlie Fraga. Known as the “overall coordinator”, Fraga has said the bitter fight has emerged as an “urgent threat to the unity of the community”.

For survivors of alleged childhood sexual and physical abuse inside the PoP, Coney’s elevation is deeply troubling. PoP Survivors – as the group is known – has for years called for the PoP to be investigated and held accountable for its handling of historic claims of abuse. The Guardian reported last year that the FBI had interviewed several individuals who have alleged they were abused by members of the PoP, but it is not clear whether the FBI opened a formal investigation.




https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/202 ... ontroversy

[RTH10260]

[RTH10260]

this turned up in my Youtube suggestions

[Suranis]

There was a moment when Moses had the nerve to ask God what His name is. God was gracious enough to answer, and the name He gave is recorded in the original Hebrew as YHWH.

Over time we’ve arbitrarily added an “a” and an “e” in there to get YaHWeH, presumably because we have a preference for vowels. But scholars and rabbis have noted that the letters YHWH represent breathing sounds, or aspirated consonants. When pronounced without intervening vowels, it actually sounds like breathing. YH (inhale): WH (exhale).

So a baby’s first cry, his first breath, speaks the name of God. A deep sigh calls His name – or a groan or gasp that is too heavy for mere words. Even an atheist would speak His name, unaware that their very breath is giving constant acknowledgment to God. Likewise, a person leaves this earth with their last breath, when God’s name is no longer filling their lungs.

So when I can’t utter anything else, is my cry calling out His name?

Being alive means I speak His name constantly. Is it heard the loudest when I’m the quietest?

In sadness, we breathe heavy sighs. In joy, our lungs feel almost like they will burst. In fear, we hold our breath and have to be told to breathe slowly to help us calm down. When we’re about to do something hard, we take a deep breath to find our courage.

When I think about it, breathing is giving Him praise. Even in the hardest moments!

This is so beautiful and fills me with emotion every time I grasp the thought. God chose to give Himself a name that we can’t help but speak every moment we’re alive. All of us, always, everywhere. Waking, sleeping, breathing, with the name of God on our lips.

- Sandra Thurman Caporale