Republicans behaving badly

[Suranis]

No idea. But the number of clergy from traditionally more conservative Christian denominations arrested for child sexual abuse (typically at least one a day on Reddit's /r/pastorarrested forum) far outnumbers the number from more left-leaning denominations like Presbyterians, Episcopalians, Unitarians or Congregationalists. I haven't done an actual tabulation, but an eyeball glance at the articles over the last couple of months suggests that the evangelical crowd has displaced the Catholics at the top of the charts for arrests.

Of course you need to adjust the percentages for the shrinking size of the traditional denominations. I'm speaking as an Episcopalian and a choir school graduate. I'd like to think that my church's child sexual abuse problem is not huge, but I don't really know.

I'm aware that the Episcopal church is shrinking in the US. It's currently at about 1.7 million, down by half in the last 50 years. (I was baptized Episcopalian so I can make the joke about how it's probably still got the highest wealth per capita of any US religious group, as well as the best golf scores and biggest yachts.)

I feel quite confident that when looking at any metrics that normalize for different population sizes and measure incidence per 10,000 people that mainstream denominations will be far lower than hard-right evangelical denominations.

I'm not going to say anything, because whats the freaking point, but they have "displaced the Catholics" for quite a while now. I'll just quote someone who probably has studied this a lot better than me. Its in spoilers as the text is kinda long

► Show Spoiler

https://newrepublic.com/article/142999/ ... se-scandal

Kathryn Joyce
June 20, 2017

Allegations of sexual misconduct have also engulfed four of fundamentalism’s most venerated patriarchs. Doug Phillips, a prominent leader of the Christian homeschooling movement, was forced to step down in 2013 from his nationwide ministry, Vision Forum, after he was sued by a former nanny who claimed he groomed her as a teenager to be his “personal sex object.” The following year, Bill Gothard, founder of the influential Institute in Basic Life Principles, resigned amid more than 30 allegations of sexual harassment and molestation by former staffers, interns, and volunteers. In the first case to cross over into the cultural mainstream, Josh Dugger, the beloved eldest son of reality TV’s favorite fundamentalist family, fell into disgrace in 2015 with the revelation that he had molested five underage girls, including four of his sisters. And this July, the chief of another fundamentalist reality-TV clan, Toby Willis, is scheduled to stand trial on four counts of child rape.

This burgeoning crisis of abuse has received far less attention than the well-documented scandal that rocked the Catholic Church. That’s in part because the evangelical and fundamentalist world, unlike the Catholic hierarchy, is diverse and fractious, composed of thousands of far-flung denominations, ministries, parachurch groups, and missions like ABWE. Among Christian evangelicals, there is no central church authority to investigate, punish, or reform. Groups like ABWE answer only to themselves.

The scale of potential abuse is huge. Evangelical Protestants far outnumber Catholics in the United States, with more than 280,000 churches, religious schools, and affiliated organizations. In 2007, the three leading insurance companies that provide coverage for the majority of Protestant institutions said they received an average of 260 reports per year of child sexual abuse at the hands of church leaders and members. By contrast, the Catholic Church was reporting 228 “credible accusations” per year.

“Protestants have responded much worse than the Catholics to this issue,” says Boz Tchividjian, a former child sex-abuse prosecutor who is the grandson of legendary evangelist Billy Graham. “One of the reasons is that, like it or not, the Catholics have been forced, through three decades of lawsuits, to address this issue. We’ve never been forced to deal with it on a Protestant-wide basis.”

To investigate and expose sexual abuse in evangelical churches, Tchividjian founded GRACE, short for Godly Response to Abuse in a Christian Environment. In 2011, the group was hired to look into what had happened on the Bangladesh compound. While the abuse itself took place long ago, ABWE’s denial and coverup spanned more than two decades—a pattern that eerily replicates the Catholic scandal. The authoritarianism that often prevails in fundamentalist circles, Tchividjian says, is what sets the stage for widespread abuse—and for the systematic mishandling of reported cases. “When you have so much concentrated authority, in so few fallible individuals, problems percolate,” he says. “And when they do, they’re not often addressed. Because the leaders who hold all the authority decide what to do with them.”

https://www.huffpost.com/entry/protesta ... _n_4019347

Oct 1, 2013, 10:11 AM EDT

AUSTIN, Texas (RNS) The Christian mission field is a “magnet” for sexual abusers, Boz Tchividjian, a Liberty University law professor who investigates abuse said Thursday (Sept. 26) to a room of journalists.

While comparing evangelicals to Catholics on abuse response, ”I think we are worse,” he said at the Religion Newswriters Association conference, saying too many evangelicals had “sacrificed the souls” of young victims.

“Protestants can be very arrogant when pointing to Catholics,” said Tchividjian, a grandson of evangelist Billy Graham and executive director of Godly Response to Abuse in the Christian Environment (GRACE), which has investigated sex abuse allegations.

Earlier this summer, GRACE spearheaded an online petition decrying the “silence” and “inattention” of evangelical leaders to sexual abuse in their churches.

Mission agencies, “where abuse is most prevalent,” often don’t report abuse because they fear being barred from working in foreign countries, he said. Abusers will get sent home and might join another agency. Of known data from abuse cases, 25 percent are repeat cases, he said.

Still, he says, he sees some positive movements among some Protestants. Bob Jones University has hired GRACE to investigate abuse allegations, a move that encourages Tchividjian, a former Florida prosecutor. ”That’s like the mothership of fundamentalism,” he said. His grandfather split with Bob Jones in a fundamentalist and evangelical division.

“The Protestant culture is defined by independence,” Tchividjian said. Evangelicals often frown upon transparency and accountability, he said, as many Protestants rely on Scripture more than religious leaders, compared to Catholics.

Abusers discourage whistle-blowing by condemning gossip to try to keep people from reporting abuse, he said. Victims are also told to protect the reputation of Jesus.

Too many Protestant institutions have sacrificed souls in order to protect their institutions, he said. ”We’ve got the Gospels backwards,” he said.

Tchividjian said he is speaking with Pepperdine University, a Church of Christ-affiliated school in California, about creating a national GRACE center.

Mission agencies, “where abuse is most prevalent,” often don’t report abuse because they fear being barred from working in foreign countries, he said. Abusers will get sent home and might join another agency. Of known data from abuse cases, 25 percent are repeat cases, he said.

[bill_g]

Oh yeah. He's a kind and lovely soul. I can tell.

Love your avatar! Did you paint it?

Yes. Thanks. I have an avi from original work for every day of the month now! That's #8.

[Tiredretiredlawyer]

[Sam the Centipede]

Having followed some conservative church issues with abuse in the church, I have noticed that they do not seem to have any policies regarding protecting the people and children of their congregation. It is probably made worse by an "I am in charge" philosophy that applies to the pastoral relationship and even the relationship in the family.

Perhaps also not just "in charge" but a sense of ownership and hence entitlement: that children are the property of their parents, wives are the property(ish) of husbands*, and so on.

Whereas more enlightened folks – like you and your church – recognize that these relationships are better viewed as being not of privilege but of responsibility, to care for those one has power or influence over, not to command them.

Not religiously related but on boundaries: for my occasional hospital work I most comply with ethical principles and procedures. It saddened me slightly that I couldn't say to an elderly lady we were discharging who was expecting a long wait for for an ambulance home and possibly a tedious journey as it dropped off other patients en route: "hang on fifteen minutes, then I'll be off shift and I can drop you off on my way home". But the "no fraternization" rule is there for good reasons, so I follow it without complaint. Sometimes it is better to have strict black-and-white rules than risk problems with abuse (well-intentioned or otherwise) of the gray areas.
_________
* Law-speaking folk probably recall that in English law until relatively recently (19C?, 20C?) made a woman's chattels the absolute property of her husband on marriage. Presumably that was also the situation in the US, at least pre-Revolution?

[chancery]

And after the Revolution. Change began in the mid-nineteenth century, and aspects of coverture still existed until the 1960s, more in some states than in others. It was pretty generally the case that women couldn't get their own credit cards in the 1960s.

The wikipedia articles on Coverture and Married Women's Property Acts in the United States are useful and interesting, although plainly incomplete.

[Slim Cognito]

When I got divorced in the 80s, and my ex shut down all the credit cards, I couldn’t get one. Even after I got a fairly decent job. And trying to get a mortgage by myself was pretty much impossible and we’re talking about a reasonably priced starter home.

[John Thomas8]

Christofascist Brandon Prichard says Ohio should ignore the will of Ohio's voters:

https://boredbat.com/christian-national ... e-ignored/

Aware that they would likely lose if the issue was left to the voters, Ohio Republicans and their allies sought to game the state’s election system by breaking their own rules to call an earlier election in August for a referendum that would have made it harder for Ohio voters to amend the constitution in the November election. That effort failed and on Tuesday, voters overwhelmingly chose to enshrine reproductive rights in the state constitution.

In the wake of the election, Prichard posted a tweet urging the government in Ohio to simply “ignore the results of the election” because “direct democracy should not exist.”

Joining Santorum as a purveyor of fascist ideology:

https://newrepublic.com/post/176741/ric ... -democracy

Deport them both to Putin's utopia.

However, it doesn't matter, the Ohio legislature will gut both Ballot Initiatives #1 and #2 like they did the anti-gerrymandering vote from two years ago.

[RTH10260]

Outrage grows after ‘chilling call for genocide’ by Florida Republican
Calls to censure Michelle Salzman, who said, ‘All of them’ when Democrat asked: ‘How many [dead Palestinians] will be enough?’

Erum Salam
Fri 10 Nov 2023 19.34 CET

Outrage continues to grow over a public comment made by a Florida state Republican lawmaker calling for all Palestinians to die.

The remarks came during a debate in the state legislature about calling for a ceasefire in Israel’s invasion of Gaza, which has so far killed more than 10,000 Palestinians, many of whom are children. The assault came after Hamas fighters attacked Israel from Gaza, killing at least 1,400 people and taking more than 200 hostage.

In the speech in support of the ceasefire resolution, the Democratic Florida state representative Angie Nixon said: “We are at 10,000 dead Palestinians. How many will be enough?”

“All of them,” Michelle Salzman called in reply.



https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/202 ... -palestine

[bill_g]

Christofascist Brandon Prichard says Ohio should ignore the will of Ohio's voters:

Surprise! When Republicans tell you what they are doing, or want to do, believe them.

[RTH10260]

Michigan GOP faces 'imminent default' on credit line, ex-budget committee member says

CRAIG MAUGER The Detroit News

Lansing — The Michigan Republican Party is considering how to deal with "imminent default" on its line of credit, according to a resignation letter from a member of the state GOP's budget committee.

The message, obtained Thursday by The Detroit News, reveals the seriousness of the financial problems facing a party in a battleground state a year before the 2024 presidential general election. Kristina Karamo, the Michigan GOP's chairwoman, has struggled to raise money after rising to power in February while railing against the party's "establishment," including past donors.

Michigan Republican Party chairwoman Kristina Karamo holds a press conference at a Macomb County GOP community office in Clinton Twp., March 22, 2023. Karamo addressed a controversial social media post from the state party earlier in the day that likened current gun control bills in the Democratic-controlled Legislature to the Nazis taking guns from Jews during the Holocaust.

Jessica Barefield of Livingston County serves on the Michigan Republican Party's state committee, which features about 100 members. She also had been one of 13 Republicans on the influential budget committee, helping to oversee the finances. Barefield said in a resignation letter the budget committee had a Friday "emergency meeting" when the panel "was asked to weigh in on action steps regarding the imminent default on the line of credit," indicating the party is struggling to meet its obligations to pay back its past debts.

"Despite my efforts, it has become evident that the issues within leadership and the committee are deeply rooted and resistant to change," Barefield wrote in her resignation letter. "It has reached a point where I feel it is no longer safe for me to be associated with this committee as it allows leadership to engage in practices that run counter to my principles and values."

Karamo and Dan Bonamie, the chairman of the budget committee, didn't immediately respond Thursday to requests for comment. Barefield confirmed Thursday to The News that she had resigned from the panel.

More: Michigan GOP eyes sale of building it doesn't own to resolve financial problems

Jeff Timmer, a longtime Michigan political consultant who previously served as the state GOP's executive director, said the situation appeared to represent the "last gasp" before the party became insolvent.

"It really is unprecedented," Timmer said.

It's unclear how much debt the Michigan Republican Party currently has. However, in March, Karamo told a group the party had $460,000 in outstanding obligations from the past leadership team. She was elected chairwoman in February. It's not unusual for the party to borrow money through a line of credit with Comerica Bank in an election year, like 2022, and then pay it back through fundraising the next year.

But by August, six months into Karamo's time as chairwoman, the party had about $35,000 in its own bank accounts, a small fraction of the debt, according to internal bank records previously obtained by The Detroit News.

In an interview Thursday on WFDF-AM (910), Karamo said her administration had been left more than $500,000 in debt by the former leadership team. Ron Weiser, a wealthy Ann Arbor real estate businessman, was the party's chairman before Karamo.

It's likely much or all of the debt is through the line of credit because state campaign finance disclosures show the party borrowed at least $1 million on the line of credit in the weeks before the November 2022 election.

"We have a legal pathway to settle this $500,000 debt that a billionaire left us," Karamo said on WFDF, referring to Weiser.

Karamo didn't detail what the pathway is during the interview, but she could have been referring to attempting to sell the former party headquarters, which the party doesn't own.

It's unclear what the specific financial repercussions would be if the party defaulted on its line of credit with Comerica Bank. But the rocky money situation will complicate Karamo's ability to raise additional dollars and could hinder the party's efforts to obtain future loans.

During the Friday budget committee meeting, members of Karamo's leadership team presented members with the idea of trying to sell the Michigan Republican Party's former headquarters on Seymour Avenue in a bid to alleviate hundreds of thousands of dollars in outstanding debts.

However, the downtown Lansing building is owned not by the party but by a company controlled by a trust featuring former party chairs. And it appears, according to Ingham County records, that Karamo's team won't be able to force the property's sale on its own.

"They don't have a legal right to do it," Weiser, a former chairman of the Michigan Republican Party and a prominent donor whose name appears on the front of the building, told The News earlier this week.

The building is believed to be worth more than $1 million, according to Ingham County tax records.

Barefield said in the letter she "cannot sit idly by or support any intentions of trying to sell the MRP building that I believe is owned by the trust and I won't be complicit in leadership passing blame to the budget committee for the decision to sell a building."

"I personally believe MRP has no legal authority to sell," Barefield wrote in her letter.

Traditionally, the Michigan Republican Party has operated out of the 11,000-square-foot office near downtown Lansing on Seymour Avenue. Karamo's leadership team chose not to use it.

In March, Karamo contended there were better ways to spend donors' contributions than paying a trust, run by former party chairs, that controls the headquarters property. It would cost about $12,000 a month to keep operating out of the building, wrote Karamo and her co-chairwoman, Malinda Pego, in a past "update" email to Republican activists.

The past headquarters building was purchased in 2006 for $930,000 by Seymour Street LLC, according to Ingham County records. The records still list Seymour Street LLC as the owner.

The limited liability company is controlled by a trust led by a group of members, including former chairs of the Michigan Republican Party. The trust setup was used to protect the building into the future, regardless of who led the party.

Michigan Republican Party chairwoman Kristina Karamo holds a press conference at a Macomb County GOP community office in Clinton Twp., March 22, 2023. Karamo addressed a controversial social media post from the state party earlier in the day that likened current gun control bills in the Democratic-controlled Legislature to the Nazis taking guns from Jews during the Holocaust.

Jessica Barefield of Livingston County serves on the Michigan Republican Party's state committee, which features about 100 members. She also had been one of 13 Republicans on the influential budget committee, helping to oversee the finances. Barefield said in a resignation letter the budget committee had a Friday "emergency meeting" when the panel "was asked to weigh in on action steps regarding the imminent default on the line of credit," indicating the party is struggling to meet its obligations to pay back its past debts.

"Despite my efforts, it has become evident that the issues within leadership and the committee are deeply rooted and resistant to change," Barefield wrote in her resignation letter. "It has reached a point where I feel it is no longer safe for me to be associated with this committee as it allows leadership to engage in practices that run counter to my principles and values."



https://eu.detroitnews.com/story/news/p ... 516394007/

[bill_g]

Sounds to me like the MI-GOP needs to enjoy some of the austerity they inflicted on the citizens years ago.

[AndyinPA]

Christofascist Brandon Prichard says Ohio should ignore the will of Ohio's voters:

Surprise! When Republicans tell you what they are doing, or want to do, believe them.

Based on Ohio's Supreme Court history, that's pretty much what they will do.

[bill_g]

Christofascist Brandon Prichard says Ohio should ignore the will of Ohio's voters:

Surprise! When Republicans tell you what they are doing, or want to do, believe them.

Based on Ohio's Supreme Court history, that's pretty much what they will do.

Hopefully the Ohian electorate do something about it.

[Suranis]

Sounds to me like the MI-GOP needs to enjoy some of the austerity they inflicted on the citizens years ago.

Well they have to cut down on their contributions from Rich People, then their income will go up. Laffer curve, baby.

[Sam the Centipede]

Michigan GOP faces 'imminent default' on credit line, ex-budget committee member says

Kristina Karamo, the Michigan GOP's chairwoman, has struggled to raise money after rising to power in February while railing against the party's "establishment," including past donors.

Definitely no cause-and-effect situation to be seen here!

[bill_g]

Well they have to cut down on their contributions from Rich People, then their income will go up. Laffer curve, baby.

That is what we're told. Reduce taxes on the wealthy and they'll spend more thus raising everyone else in the process. It should go hand in glove, but appears to be hand to mouth, or boot up ass.

[Sam the Centipede]

So "trickle down economics" shouldn't mean the rich get richer so have more opportunities to piss on the poor, and the poor should be grateful for being pissed on?

[northland10]

Sounds to me like the MI-GOP needs to enjoy some of the austerity they inflicted on the citizens years ago.

The odd thing it is the Republicans come lately pushing out the other Republicans (i.e. the ones who pushed for austerity). There is a bunch of MAGA who were not Republican or even politically active until Trump and have now decided they are in charge of the party. Of course, the establishment Republicans let this happen because they were desperate to increase the party's standing to counter what they saw as a changing demographic that would reduce their electoral strength (and they were probably right about the changing demographic).

[raison de arizona]

And they say the House has all the fun and fisticuffs...

Senator Markwayne Mullin (R-OK) just tried to fight a witness at a hearing.

[neonzx]

Lol

[raison de arizona]

We're not sending our best. From his official account. Mullin is an MMA fighter, I've heard. I guess he can only think of a single way to resolve problems. Poor dude.

Here is a sitting United States Senator brandishing his firearms as a continued, unhinged threat to the guy he just tried to square up on during a Senate hearing.

This is indefensible.
Also seems like a terroristic threat.

Let’s do it. Anyplace, anytime. @ComfortablySmug

Apparently he is a shortly, perhaps that adds to his complex.

► Show Spoiler

The Senator's bravery on display on January 6th.

► Show Spoiler

[raison de arizona]

Ladies and gentlemen, I give you the Republicans.
https://twitter.com/atrupar/status/1724 ... 84521?s=20

this morning in Republicans

-- one House R accused another of sucker punching him
-- a senator challenged a witness to a fistfight as people gasped
-- the Oversight chair called a Dem member a "smurf" and repeatedly called his line of questioning "bullshit"

these are toddlers

[Estiveo]

Estiveoshot_20231114_133225.jpg (40.25 KiB) Viewed 10993 times

[raison de arizona]

Perhaps Andrew Jackson should not be the figure we choose to emulate...

Question: Are there any actual senate rules— could you guys go bare knuckle?

Mullin: We looked into the rules. You used to be able to cane. Andrew Jackson challenged 9 guys to a duel.. And so at the end of the day, there is presence for it

Mullin is an angry elf!

[Dr. Ken]

The fuller video it doesn't get any better


I used to think the senator who preceded him, Jim inhofe was an embarrassment