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PostPosted: Fri Mar 18, 2011 12:17 pm 
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kimba wrote:
I forgot to write that I observed something interesting, odd yesterday. Shepard Smith in Tokyo was interviewing someone who was an engineer for a nuclear regulatory agency during the time that TEPCO was installing the first reactors at Fukushima. This person alleged that TEPCO had lied on various disclosures regarding safety, construction. Smith questioned him for several minutes, then the guy said "Have you talked to GE? You should really talk to GE, they built reactor 1." Then silence and Smith said "That was XX". As soon as that guy said "GE", the call was over. Do you guys think that was because of the GE/NBC connection? Or that GE is a big US business?


GE no longer owns NBC. Comcast does.

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PostPosted: Fri Mar 18, 2011 12:26 pm 
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GE no longer owns NBC. Comcast does.


GE owns 49% of NBCUniversal. Comcast owns 51%. GE designed all 6 reactors at Fukishima plant and built reactors 1, 2 & 6. So why did FoxNews hang up on a guy who suggests talking to GE?


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PostPosted: Fri Mar 18, 2011 12:38 pm 
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kimba wrote:
I forgot to write that I observed something interesting, odd yesterday. Shepard Smith in Tokyo was interviewing someone who was an engineer for a nuclear regulatory agency during the time that TEPCO was installing the first reactors at Fukushima. This person alleged that TEPCO had lied on various disclosures regarding safety, construction. Smith questioned him for several minutes, then the guy said "Have you talked to GE? You should really talk to GE, they built reactor 1." Then silence and Smith said "That was XX". As soon as that guy said "GE", the call was over. Do you guys think that was because of the GE/NBC connection? Or that GE is a big US business?


idunno why they ended the call, but I saw that story yesterday.


reuters:
Quote:
Japan reactor design caused GE engineer to quit

NEW YORK | Tue Mar 15, 2011 7:15pm EDT

NEW YORK (Reuters) - A General Electric Co engineer said he resigned 35 years ago over concern about the safety of a nuclear reactor design used in the now crippled Fukushima Daiichi plant in Japan.

Dale Bridenbaugh said the "Mark 1" design had "not yet been designed to withstand the loads" that could be experienced in a large-scale accident.

"At the time, I didn't think the utilities were taking things seriously enough," Bridenbaugh, now retired, said in a phone interview. "I felt some of the plants should have been shut down while the analysis was completed, and GE and the utilities didn't want to do that, so I left."

Bridenbaugh said that to the best of his knowledge, the design flaws he had identified were addressed at the Daiichi plant, requiring "a fairly significant expense."


remainder:
http://www.reuters.com/article/2011/03/ ... H420110315

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PostPosted: Fri Mar 18, 2011 1:02 pm 
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mimi wrote:
reuters:
Quote:
Japan reactor design caused GE engineer to quit

NEW YORK | Tue Mar 15, 2011 7:15pm EDT

Bridenbaugh said that to the best of his knowledge, the design flaws he had identified were addressed at the Daiichi plant, requiring "a fairly significant expense."


remainder:
http://www.reuters.com/article/2011/03/ ... H420110315

It was earlier independently reported that GE had implemented some changes at the Fukushima plants it had built. Apparently those changes did not satisfy OECD in the warning it issued in 2009.

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PostPosted: Fri Mar 18, 2011 8:42 pm 
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TollandRCR wrote:
Sky News, so likely to be sensationalistic. March 18, 2001
'Nuclear Ninja' Suicide Mission To Save Japan


Too bad they have to die for the crimes and lies of the Japanese government and nuclear industry.

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PostPosted: Fri Mar 18, 2011 9:05 pm 
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I'm not normally a paranoid person, but between TEPCO, the Japanese government's reluctance to be absolutely forthcoming to its citizens from the beginning and this little gemwhich has only been common knowledge for about 5 years, I hear all the official pronouncements about how safe we are here on the west coast, in Alaska and Hawaii as though under a pile of salt. I hate it.

Can someone make me feel better?

Quote:

Living in Earth

Air Date: Week of January 20, 2006


In 1959 a partial meltdown occurred at the Boeing-Rocketdyne nuclear testing facility, about 30 miles northwest of downtown Los Angeles. The incident released the third greatest amount of radioactive iodine in nuclear history. But no one really heard about it until Boeing recently settled a class-action suit...

 

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PostPosted: Fri Mar 18, 2011 9:14 pm 
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The lat 1990s the government was getting 'really concerned' with the nuclear thread from the Sellafield nuclear reprocessing plant to the east coast of Ireland. Ther response? Send everyone in the country one iodine tablet. With no instructions for use. End of response.

That kind of coloured my own response on all this.

The thing is that, if you want to feel a little better, is that the really nasty nuclear shit is very heavy. It will fall to earth very fast, and its the lower level stuff that will reach Hawaii, and it will have dispersed very widely in that time. If you want to use the past as a guide for what will happen with Japan, only the edges of the Chernobyl nuclear cloud that reached Ireland.

My advice would be to dig up maps of the Cernobyl nuclear cloud and compare with the situation in japan. Look up prevailing winds as well, and draw your own conclusions.

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PostPosted: Fri Mar 18, 2011 10:27 pm 
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Hawaii is included in the president's reassurance...


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PostPosted: Fri Mar 18, 2011 10:29 pm 
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kate520 wrote:
I'm not normally a paranoid person, but between TEPCO, the Japanese government's reluctance to be absolutely forthcoming to its citizens from the beginning and this little gemwhich has only been common knowledge for about 5 years, I hear all the official pronouncements about how safe we are here on the west coast, in Alaska and Hawaii as though under a pile of salt. I hate it.

Can someone make me feel better? 


If the worst case happens, and multiple reactors there catastrophically explode, breaching the core and containment, the physics of the situation say that HI and AK are fine. That doesn't change even if every last thing TEPCO is saying about the current situation is a lie.

The physics of the reactor design also say that even a worst-case explosion will not spread contamination as far as Chernobyl did. That prediction is also based as much on our understanding of physics as anything else. It would be extremely bad for the local area - possibly worse than Chernobyl in some ways - but much less severe beyond the immediate vicinity of the plant.

However, even if all of that is wrong, the distance is still so great that areas as far away as Hawaii and Alaska are unlikely to be severely affected.

Physicists have been wrong before, and often, and often spectacularly. But they'd have to be wrong in a lot of different ways simultaneously for the US to see a significant impact from this.

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PostPosted: Sat Mar 19, 2011 8:34 am 
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Mikedunford wrote:
kate520 wrote:
I'm not normally a paranoid person, but between TEPCO, the Japanese government's reluctance to be absolutely forthcoming to its citizens from the beginning and this little gemwhich has only been common knowledge for about 5 years, I hear all the official pronouncements about how safe we are here on the west coast, in Alaska and Hawaii as though under a pile of salt. I hate it.

Can someone make me feel better? 


If the worst case happens, and multiple reactors there catastrophically explode, breaching the core and containment, the physics of the situation say that HI and AK are fine. That doesn't change even if every last thing TEPCO is saying about the current situation is a lie.

The physics of the reactor design also say that even a worst-case explosion will not spread contamination as far as Chernobyl did. That prediction is also based as much on our understanding of physics as anything else. It would be extremely bad for the local area - possibly worse than Chernobyl in some ways - but much less severe beyond the immediate vicinity of the plant.

However, even if all of that is wrong, the distance is still so great that areas as far away as Hawaii and Alaska are unlikely to be severely affected.

Physicists have been wrong before, and often, and often spectacularly. But they'd have to be wrong in a lot of different ways simultaneously for the US to see a significant impact from this.


If some of these spent rods (with plutonium) catch fire, the local contamination will be significant. Some die-hard pro-nuclear scientists even claim plutonium does not disperse at all (at a given moment someone even tried to put that in the Wikipedia article on the Fukushima disaster), but that is probably a myth - how far it dispers while burning with other stuff (excluding graphite, excluding graphite ...) seems to be a matter for educated guessing at the moment. Judging from discussions (eg at the Guardian forum, where mathematicaians and meteorologists have tried to stop the pro-nuclear lobby from dominating the scientific debate) an educated guess would be no more than 15% of the Chernobel dispersion rate. Anything further away than 300 miles should be OK.

Note that breathing radioactivity and consuming radioactive particles is not at all the same thing. Someone should tell Ann Coulter before she volunteers to be one of the "firefighters" dousing the reactors and the pools.

Any alarms going off beyond 300 miles now must certainly be due to people (and luggage) that have recently been too close to the plant. Give it another week and food from Japan's central island will start doing that too, but the risk of actual particles getting outside the zone this way is very, very small.

Any comparison to Chernobyl is obviously irrelevant now. The worst case scenario is for horrible contamination locally, significantly worse than the local contamination near Chernobyl - but no clouds that could contaminate Hawaii or Alaska if their passing coincides with rain (or snow), fixing radioactive particles in the soil for thousands of years.

They will have to invent another scale for measuring nuclear catastrophes disasters accidents incidents - overhere in Western Europe but outside the UK, Fukushima has been considered a six for four days already.

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PostPosted: Sat Mar 19, 2011 10:49 am 
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A good summary of what is now known about errors and lies surrounding the Fukushima nuclear power plant. Bloomberg March 18, 2001 "Japan’s Nuclear Disaster Caps Decades of Faked Safety Reports, Accidents"

I don't see anything in this article that could be "the smoking gun," although putting the diesel generators in the basement comes pretty close. What the article makes clear is the willingness among Japanese nuclear power companies to conceal and to lie and the complicity of a long succession of Japanese governments -- Japan Inc.

Quote:
Unlike France and the U.S., which have independent regulators, responsibility for keeping Japan’s reactors safe rests with the same body that oversees the effort to increase nuclear power generation: the Trade Ministry. Critics say that creates a conflict of interest that may hamper safety.

“What is necessary is a qualified, well-funded, independent regulator,” said Seth Grae, chief executive officer of Lightbridge Corp. (LTBR), a nuclear consultant in the U.S. “What happens when you have an independent regulatory agency, you can have a utility that has scandals and lies, but the regulator will yank its licensing approvals,” he said.

Our Federal Aviation Administration has the same fundamental design flaw: two missions that can come into conflict.

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PostPosted: Sat Mar 19, 2011 11:19 am 
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Thanks Paul, Mikedunford and Suranis. I will confine my mourning to the Japanese people.

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PostPosted: Sat Mar 19, 2011 11:37 am 
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I had the naive impression that the earthquake uniformly caused a tsunami of 10 meters or, in rough American calculation, 30 feet. Some parts of the tsunami were probably exactly 10 meters high, but Ofunato City and some other areas experienced a tsunami of 23 meters or 75.5 feet. Japan had experienced an even higher tsunami, 38 meters or 124.7 feet, caused by an 8.5 earthquake in 1896. The 1896 tsunami killed 22,000 people in a less densely populated Japan. Without the breakwaters built since then, the 2011 tsunami could have been higher than the 1896 tsunami.



A curiosity is that media were earlier reporting a tsunami of 23 feet. This appears not to be misreporting of 23 meters as 23 feet, because the new estimate, based upon GPS data, was released Friday, March 18.

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PostPosted: Sat Mar 19, 2011 4:09 pm 
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TollandRCR wrote:
I had the naive impression that the earthquake uniformly caused a tsunami of 10 meters or, in rough American calculation, 30 feet.


Yeah, the size of a tsunami when it reaches land has a great deal to do with the local geography. There are some areas that are very good at capturing tsunami energy, and as a result they consistently see much higher water and much more damage than other places.

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PostPosted: Sat Mar 19, 2011 5:13 pm 
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Put simply (and I only know the basics) a Tzunami is like a circular wave of water. In the open sea it will cause little or no damage as it will generally pass under the water and not really effect shipping at all. When it hits land though the wave is squashed upwards by the land under the sea, and then it rolls onto the land. The height of the wave is caused by several factors, most of which I don't really understand, but really its the land with the energy of the wave that determines the wave height.

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PostPosted: Sat Mar 19, 2011 5:15 pm 
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by determining the amount of water expressed, I take it?

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PostPosted: Sat Mar 19, 2011 5:36 pm 
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Plutodog wrote:
by determining the amount of water expressed, I take it?

An article says that GPS signals (on buoys?) were used for these calculations:
Quote:
The Port and Airport Research Institute recorded the massive tsunami in Ofunato, Iwate prefecture, that swept away entire towns, one Japanese daily said on Friday.

An official with the institute said that without the coastal levee that did not exist in 1896, the latest tsunami was likely to have been the biggest ever to hit Japan.

The study was conducted on Friday using global positioning system (GPS) and measuring instruments.

The Geospatial Information Authority of Japan said that at least 400 square kilometres were flooded in the tsunami.

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PostPosted: Tue Mar 22, 2011 12:10 pm 
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CNN "U.S. military considers mandatory evacuations in Yokosuka, Japan"
Quote:
The U.S. military is considering the mandatory evacuation of thousands of American troops and their families in Japan out of concern over rising radiation levels, a senior defense official tells CNN.

The official, who did not want to be on the record talking about ongoing deliberations, says there are no discussions to evacuate all U.S. troops across the country. The talks have focused exclusively on U.S. troops in Yokosuka, just south of Tokyo, the official said. Yokosuka is home to America's largest naval base in Japan. The military is monitoring radiation levels on a constant basis.

As of Monday, the U.S. Navy had no more warships in port at the base. The aircraft carrier USS George Washington, which had been undergoing maintenance in Yokosuka, left port Monday to get away from the plume of radioactive particles that could blow over the base. Because it left port with a much smaller than normal crew, the George Washington will not take part in the Japanese relief effort.

The official said the talks originated with Pacific Command, the military authority that directly oversees U.S. troops in the region, but "discussions have since taken place here in Washington as well."

Note that the current contingency plan involves a single base. There are thousands of U.S. troops at other bases in Japan.

Benjamin Fulford tells a different story:
Quote:
Benjamin Fulford blurb: US troops and occupation forces flee Japan, their lackeys flee Tokyo

Posted By: Jordon Date: Monday,

March 21, 2011

The United States occupation forces in Japan are staging a major strategic defeat because they know the Japanese defense establishment knows it was elements of the US military that set off the March 11, (311) tsunami attack against Japan. This attack used nuclear weapons drilled into the seabed by submarines and not HAARP according to senior Pentagon Sources. In addition, four months ago they overruled Japanese authorities and placed deadly plutonium into the number 3 reactor at Fukushima, according to the governor of Fukushima prefecture. This was to provide a nuclear cover story for the seabed atomic attack, pentagon sources say. Needless to say, the ring-leaders of this attack are now in hiding and know they will be found.

http://benjaminfulford.typepad.com/benj ... tokyo.html


Fulford's fantasy is very dramatic:

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PostPosted: Tue Mar 22, 2011 2:05 pm 
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A viral video from Kazuhiko Hachiya is a cartoon in which a father explains Japan's nuclear crisis to his child. Being scatological, it probably has enormous appeal to young kids. Its science may be weak.


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PostPosted: Wed Mar 23, 2011 12:09 am 
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Quote:
US spent-fuel storage sites are packed


By JONATHAN FAHEY and RAY HENRY, The Associated Press Jonathan Fahey And Ray Henry, The Associated Press – 2 hrs 29 mins ago
The nuclear crisis in Japan has laid bare an ever-growing problem for the United States — the enormous amounts of still-hot radioactive waste accumulating at commercial nuclear reactors in more than 30 states.

The U.S. has 71,862 tons of the waste, according to state-by-state numbers obtained by The Associated Press. But the nation has no place to permanently store the material, which stays dangerous for tens of thousands of years.

Plans to store nuclear waste at Nevada's Yucca Mountain have been abandoned, but even if a facility had been built there, America already has more waste than it could have handled.

Three-quarters of the waste sits in water-filled cooling pools like those at the Fukushima Dai-ichi nuclear complex in Japan, outside the thick concrete-and-steel barriers meant to guard against a radioactive release from a nuclear reactor.


http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20110323/ap_ ... spent_fuel


I saw a graph that shows wind power plants have stalled. I didn't see any explanation as to why>?

There's got to be something better than nuclear. and how can they even consider building more nuclear power plants when the storage issues haven't been solved?

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PostPosted: Wed Mar 23, 2011 12:15 am 
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There is something better than nuclear.

Image

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PostPosted: Wed Mar 23, 2011 12:20 am 
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Sterngard Friegen wrote:
There is something better than nuclear.

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¿Naranjas?

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PostPosted: Wed Mar 23, 2011 12:24 am 
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Estiveo wrote:
Sterngard Friegen wrote:
There is something better than nuclear.

Image

¿Naranjas?

Exactamento. Sunfruit.

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PostPosted: Wed Mar 23, 2011 12:26 am 
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:lol:

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PostPosted: Wed Mar 23, 2011 2:26 pm 
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The DailyMail (UK) has photos of "The Fukushima Fifty" today.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article ... plant.html

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