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 Post subject: Oklahoma S.B. 91 (2011)
PostPosted: Wed Feb 23, 2011 12:19 pm 
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C. Copies of documents provided pursuant to the provisions of this section shall be made by the election board and kept available for public inspection pursuant to the Oklahoma Open Records Act.


Let's assume it's whatever form of birth record is issued by whatever state, including OK.

What idiot decided it's a good idea to allow public inspection of a person's birth records, passport, or whatever the document is? The real-world consequences of that are staggering IMO. #-o

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 Post subject: Oklahoma S.B. 91 (2011)
PostPosted: Wed Feb 23, 2011 12:26 pm 
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realist wrote:
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C. Copies of documents provided pursuant to the provisions of this section shall be made by the election board and kept available for public inspection pursuant to the Oklahoma Open Records Act.


Let's assume it's whatever form of birth record is issued by whatever state, including OK.

What idiot decided it's a good idea to allow public inspection of a person's birth records, passport, or whatever the document is? The real-world consequences of that are staggering IMO. #-o


So the Oklahoma Open Records Act trumps the open records acts of other states that might be more restrictive??

How's that gonna work out?

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 Post subject: Oklahoma S.B. 91 (2011)
PostPosted: Wed Feb 23, 2011 12:27 pm 
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realist wrote:
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C. Copies of documents provided pursuant to the provisions of this section shall be made by the election board and kept available for public inspection pursuant to the Oklahoma Open Records Act.


Let's assume it's whatever form of birth record is issued by whatever state, including OK.

What idiot decided it's a good idea to allow public inspection of a person's birth records, passport, or whatever the document is? The real-world consequences of that are staggering IMO. #-o


That's cropped up in a few of the Birther bills(OK,TN NE & I think the MT amendment had it but I never so that in writing)- I keep meaning to research if any of the states already do something similar on other issues and how they handle it.

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 Post subject: Oklahoma S.B. 91 (2011)
PostPosted: Wed Feb 23, 2011 1:23 pm 
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Well that was quick!

Sponsor intorduced the bill in about 30 seconds, there were no questions, Do Pass motion was made and approved.All done in less than a minute.

The Do Pass is on the Committee Substitute Bill which I posted about earlier. If it completes it's passage it'll be down to the SoS to define by rule what documents are acceptable.(which if your going to do it I think is the only sensible way to do it)

I think ID is going to be an issue in practice. Although it doesn't say so in so many words I think it's really saying that a presidential(and vice president ) candidate will have to turn up peronally with ID.

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 Post subject: Oklahoma S.B. 91 (2011)
PostPosted: Wed Feb 23, 2011 1:37 pm 
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I've now uploaded a copy of the "Committee Substitute" version of the bill on my Scribd account.

SB91 Committee Substitute

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 Post subject: Oklahoma S.B. 91 (2011)
PostPosted: Wed Feb 23, 2011 1:46 pm 
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Welsh Dragon wrote:
I've now uploaded a copy of the "Committee Substitute" version of the bill on my Scribd account.

SB91 Committee Substitute


According to the Committee Substitute, Section 7-114 Title 26 of the OK Statutes is how the SoS may satisfy the documentation requirements to satisfy the requirements of SB91.

It states...

Quote:
§26-7-114. Procedure for determining eligibility.
A. Each person appearing to vote shall announce that person’s name to the judge of the precinct and shall provide proof of identity, whereupon the judge shall determine whether the person's name is in the precinct registry. As used in this section, [highlight]“proof of identity” shall mean a document that satisfies all of the following:[/highlight]
1. The document shows the name of the person to whom the document was issued, and the name substantially conforms to the name in the precinct registry;
2. The document shows a photograph of the person to whom the document was issued;
3. The document includes an expiration date, which is after the date of the election in which the person is appearing to vote. The provisions of this paragraph shall not apply to an identification card issued to a person sixty-five (65) years of age or older which is valid indefinitely, as provided in Section 6-105.3 of Title 47 of the Oklahoma Statutes; and
4. The document was issued by the United States, the State of Oklahoma or the government of a federally recognized Indian tribe or nation.
Provided, if the person presents a voter identification card issued by the appropriate county election board, such card may serve as proof of identity without meeting the requirements of paragraphs 2 and 3 of this subsection.
B. 1. If a person declines to or is unable to produce proof of identity, the person may sign a statement under oath, in a form approved by the Secretary of the State Election Board, swearing or affirming that the person is the person identified on the precinct registry, and shall be allowed to cast a provisional ballot as provided in Section 7-116.1 of this title.
2. False swearing or affirming under oath shall be punishable as a felony as provided in Section 16-103 of this title, and the penalty shall be distinctly set forth on the face of the statement.
Added by Laws 1974, c. 153, § 7-114, operative Jan. 1, 1975. Amended by Laws 1990, c. 331, § 14, eff. July 1, 1990; Laws 2009, c. 31, § 2, eff. July 1, 2011 (State Question No. 746, Legislative Referendum No. 347, adopted at election held on Nov. 2, 2010).


http://www.oklegislature.gov/osstatuestitle.html

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 Post subject: Oklahoma S.B. 91 (2011)
PostPosted: Wed Feb 23, 2011 1:52 pm 
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Well reading that means amongst other things

Unless an out of state candidate has a passport or other Federal issued ID they are SOL, no out of state Drivers Licences will do to act as proof of identity.

A BC is EXPLICITLY incapable of meeting the requirements as it does not and cannot prove identity.

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 Post subject: Oklahoma S.B. 91 (2011)
PostPosted: Wed Feb 23, 2011 2:04 pm 
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This has been nagging away at me for while but today’s progress on this OK Birther Bill has brought it into focus. The bill includes:

Quote:
…shall, at the time of filing the Declaration of Candidacy, provide proof of identity and eligibility to hold the office sought to the election board at which the Declaration was filed.
… The requirement to provide proof of identity may be satisfied by production of a document specified in Section 7-114 of Title 26 of the Oklahoma Statutes


Section 7-114 of Title 26 of the Oklahoma Statutes deals with voter ID and the documents specified are:

Quote:
1. The document shows the name of the person to whom the document was issued, and the name substantially conforms to the name in the precinct registry;
2. The document shows a photograph of the person to whom the document was issued;
3. The document includes an expiration date, which is after the date of the election in which the person is appearing to vote. The provisions of this paragraph shall not apply to an identification card issued to a person sixty-five (65) years of age or older which is valid indefinitely, as provided in Section 6-105.3 of Title 47 of the Oklahoma Statutes; and
4. The document was issued by the United States, the State of Oklahoma or the government of a federally recognized Indian tribe or nation.
Provided, if the person presents a voter identification card issued by the appropriate county election board, such card may serve as proof of identity without meeting the requirements of paragraphs 2 and 3 of this subsection.


Now while I have no doubt that any candidate would have a form of ID that could meet requirements, but presumably an original rather than copy would have to be shown when filing and there’s no point in having a photo ID without the person to compare it to, so I read it that the candidate would have to file in person. For a presidential election that could present significant logistical problems especially if a number of states enacted such requirements. Would that be sufficient to challenge the constitutionality of a bill like this?

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 Post subject: Oklahoma S.B. 91 (2011)
PostPosted: Wed Feb 23, 2011 2:08 pm 
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everalm wrote:
Well reading that means amongst other things

Unless an out of state candidate has a passport or other Federal issued ID they are SOL, no out of state Drivers Licences will do to act as proof of identity.

A BC is EXPLICITLY incapable of meeting the requirements as it does not and cannot prove identity.


good point! - some of the other Birther Bills don't have that flaw - they refer to 'state issued'

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 Post subject: Oklahoma S.B. 91 (2011)
PostPosted: Thu Mar 03, 2011 8:57 am 
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SB 91 returns to the floor of the Oklahoma Senate today. I'm not sure what to expect yet- whether it'll be read a third time, or there'll be a " committee of the whole" or it'll just lie on the table for a while or what.

All these State legislature's have different rules and it's difficult to keep track - especially when some of them hide their rules in the deepest recesses of their websites.

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 Post subject: Oklahoma S.B. 91 (2011)
PostPosted: Thu Mar 03, 2011 10:06 am 
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Welsh Dragon wrote:
All these State legislature's have different rules and it's difficult to keep track - especially when some of them hide their rules in the deepest recesses of their websites.


You do a great job, WD. Thank you! :-bd


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 Post subject: Oklahoma S.B. 91 (2011)
PostPosted: Thu Mar 03, 2011 12:46 pm 
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I see these bills as more of an impediment to the other candidates than to President Obama.

He's got the campaign machine and the $$$ to make sure the conditions for each state are met (those that aren't thrown out as unconstitutional).

I can see one of the other candidates messing up and finding out too late that their DL or passport expires before the election and so doesn't meet the requirements of a bill like this, or getting mixed up as to which states need to have the documents presented in person.

These people think they're going to keep President Obama off the ballot, but all they are doing is making a lot of work and expense for other candidates and their SOS.

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 Post subject: Oklahoma S.B. 91 (2011)
PostPosted: Thu Mar 03, 2011 2:47 pm 
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Sequoia32 wrote:
I see these bills as more of an impediment to the other candidates than to President Obama.

He's got the campaign machine and the $$$ to make sure the conditions for each state are met (those that aren't thrown out as unconstitutional).


It has occured to me that the way things are going the Obama campaign is going to be in better financial shape to fight a legal battle on this than some over states considering these bills.

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 Post subject: Oklahoma S.B. 91 (2011)
PostPosted: Thu Mar 03, 2011 2:57 pm 
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Quote:
1. The document shows the name of the person to whom the document was issued, and the name substantially conforms to the name in the precinct registry;
2. The document shows a photograph of the person to whom the document was issued;
3. The document includes an expiration date, which is after the date of the election in which the person is appearing to vote. The provisions of this paragraph shall not apply to an identification card issued to a person sixty-five (65) years of age or older which is valid indefinitely, as provided in Section 6-105.3 of Title 47 of the Oklahoma Statutes; and
4. The document was issued by the United States, the State of Oklahoma or the government of a federally recognized Indian tribe or nation.
Provided, if the person presents a voter identification card issued by the appropriate county election board, such card may serve as proof of identity without meeting the requirements of paragraphs 2 and 3 of this subsection.



I agree the requirement for a document that has a photograph and an expiration date excludes birth certificates. The two that come to mind that qualify are a passport or a driver's license. Birthers haven't caught this yet? Cool. I suspect Pres Obama has both. I look forward to the wailing and gnashing of teeth and rending of garments when Pres Obama's passport is accepted as identification.


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 Post subject: Oklahoma S.B. 91 (2011)
PostPosted: Thu Mar 03, 2011 3:46 pm 
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Kimba,

As I noted earlier in the thread, the statute says that only an OK driving licence is good. So if you don't have Federal issued photo ID or an Ok driving licence, you will be SOL

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 Post subject: Oklahoma S.B. 91 (2011)
PostPosted: Fri Mar 04, 2011 9:26 pm 
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twinx wrote:
Welsh Dragon wrote:
All these State legislature's have different rules and it's difficult to keep track - especially when some of them hide their rules in the deepest recesses of their websites.


You do a great job, WD. Thank you! :-bd


Yes. Welsh Dragon does an outstanding job. The work is greatly appreciated.

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 Post subject: Oklahoma S.B. 91 (2011)
PostPosted: Fri Mar 04, 2011 11:27 pm 
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Toro wrote:
twinx wrote:
Welsh Dragon wrote:
All these State legislature's have different rules and it's difficult to keep track - especially when some of them hide their rules in the deepest recesses of their websites.


You do a great job, WD. Thank you! :-bd


Yes. Welsh Dragon does an outstanding job. The work is greatly appreciated.


Ditto!

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 Post subject: Oklahoma S.B. 91 (2011)
PostPosted: Fri Mar 04, 2011 11:35 pm 
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mimi wrote:
Toro wrote:
twinx wrote:
Welsh Dragon wrote:
All these State legislature's have different rules and it's difficult to keep track - especially when some of them hide their rules in the deepest recesses of their websites.


You do a great job, WD. Thank you! :-bd


Yes. Welsh Dragon does an outstanding job. The work is greatly appreciated.


Ditto!

+bunches

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 Post subject: Oklahoma S.B. 91 (2011)
PostPosted: Mon Mar 07, 2011 3:13 pm 
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I don't know if or when this will be debated on the floor of OK Senate - today or tomorrow is the earliest (not sure which, it is depends on a timing that I don't have) but it may be never since it all depends on the Majority Leader calling it.

However, Senator Shortey who filed one of the other now defunct birther bills(SB384) has filed a floor amendment that to all intents injects his defunct bill into SB91. the overall effect of this is to re-introduce Photo ID & the various types of birth certificates for Presidential candidates but not other candidates and since the point of control is the primary elections it doesn't cover vice presidential candidates.
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 Post subject: Oklahoma S.B. 91 (2011)
PostPosted: Tue Mar 15, 2011 2:36 pm 
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just a brief visit on very slow xonnection - this bill passed the senate yesterday 3/14 - I think the amendment I mentioned earlier has passed .

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 Post subject: Oklahoma S.B. 91 (2011)
PostPosted: Tue Mar 15, 2011 2:50 pm 
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Welsh Dragon wrote:
just a brief visit on very slow xonnection - this bill passed the senate yesterday 3/14 - I think the amendment I mentioned earlier has passed .


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 Post subject: Oklahoma S.B. 91 (2011)
PostPosted: Tue Mar 15, 2011 2:51 pm 
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Well, all the birfoon requirements have been gutted from this, wait for the wailing, gnashing of teeth and cries of TRAITORS...... -xx

No momma and poppa BC's, no footies, no dual citizenship pinkie swear, nada..... :lol:

The candidates shall be required to swear an oath or affirm that they meet the aforementioned qualifications, and their signatures shall be witnessed by a notary public. The candidates shall further be required to provide proof of identity and United States citizenship to the State Election Board. A candidate shall present a current state or federal government-issued photo identification to provide proof of identity, and shall also present one of the following documents to provide proof of United States natural-born citizenship:
1. An original birth document issued by a state, the Commonwealth of Puerto Rico, or the District of Columbia, or a certified copy thereof;


Last version of the bill in Word format

(edited to add link) (edited again by poor ol' rooster to fix the link)

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 Post subject: Oklahoma S.B. 91 (2011)
PostPosted: Tue Mar 15, 2011 2:53 pm 
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everalm wrote:
Well, all the birfoon requirements have been gutted from this, wait for the wailing, gnashing of teeth and cries of TRAITORS...... -xx

No momma and poppa BC's, no footies, no dual citizenship pinkie swear, nada..... :lol:

The candidates shall be required to swear an oath or affirm that they meet the aforementioned qualifications, and their signatures shall be witnessed by a notary public. The candidates shall further be required to provide proof of identity and United States citizenship to the State Election Board. A candidate shall present a current state or federal government-issued photo identification to provide proof of identity, and shall also present one of the following documents to provide proof of United States natural-born citizenship:
1. An original birth document issued by a state, the Commonwealth of Puerto Rico, or the District of Columbia, or a certified copy thereof;


Thanks. That's much better.

Yeah, the birthers' heads will be asploding over that one.

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 Post subject: Oklahoma S.B. 91 (2011)
PostPosted: Tue Mar 15, 2011 2:55 pm 
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Waiting for Mad Ole Orly to proclaim it "WINNING" in 3....2....1....FAIL

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 Post subject: Oklahoma S.B. 91 (2011)
PostPosted: Tue Mar 15, 2011 8:24 pm 
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This isn't law yet though, right? Just passed the Oklahoma Senate. Still must pass the House.

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