Falsehoods unchallenged only fester and grow.


All times are UTC - 5 hours [ DST ]




Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 41 posts ]  Go to page Previous  1, 2   
Author Message
PostPosted: Fri Feb 11, 2011 2:03 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Mon Aug 10, 2009 3:29 pm
Posts: 2570
Location: In exile in NOVA
Committee consideration of the Montana Birther Bill has been defered until Monday February 14th. Apparently some amendments were not ready in time for today's meeting.

_________________
They laughed at Columbus, they laughed at Fulton, they laughed at the Wright brothers. But they also laughed at Bozo the Clown. – Carl Sagan


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Fri Feb 11, 2011 2:25 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Thu Sep 30, 2010 2:02 pm
Posts: 10977
Location: Stalag 13 Okanagan, WA 98840
Occupation: Drone Maintenance Officer - FAA Licensed and Certified "We Fix Drones©" Call (206) 622-0460 to schedule routine maintenance or repair.
Welsh Dragon wrote:
Committee consideration of the Montana Birther Bill has been deferred until Monday February 14th. Apparently some amendments were not ready in time for today's meeting.


"born within a state or territory of the United States" - IRR needs to read UNDER THE JURISDICTION OF the United States. This way - any citizens of a US Commonwealth and children of the US Military born overseas to service folks stationed outside the US proper - while being native born, wouldn't be eligible.

This clause would have kept John McCain from being elected as he was not born on an official territory of the US. He was born on an overseas military base. Anyone born while both mommy and daddy is stationed overseas serving a with dependents tour is shit out of luck. Sorry McCain - no can do.

Oh yes, children of ambassadors and their staff would also not be eligible. It is a little much to ask US citizens to give up the future rights of their children for a diplomatic post.

This just goes to show how truly out of their depth the Montana Legislature continues to be. They are going to open a huge can of worms just by being birthers.

_________________
Image ImageImage

You can follow the action, which gets you good pictures.
You can follow your instincts, which'll probably get you in trouble.

Or... you can follow the money...
which nine times out of ten will get you closer to the truth.
"The Two Jakes"


Remember, Orly NEVAH disappoints!


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Mon Feb 14, 2011 2:02 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Mon Aug 10, 2009 3:29 pm
Posts: 2570
Location: In exile in NOVA
OK hot of the intertoobz!

Montana Bill is tabled!

Rep Skees brought forward a Vattelist amendment and in the course of the debate realised that he'd made a mess of drafting it . His version required both parents to be US citizens at birth a proposition that even he didn't agree with! It was then inevitable that the amendment would be tabled.

Moving to the bill itself debate focused on the requirement that candidates be born in a state or territory of the US. Several members (including one born in Australia to two US citizens) argued that this was not so and it was 'settled law' those born abroad to US citizens were NBCs.(this also featured in the debate on the amendment)

On a motion of "do pass" the roll call vote tied at 9 all. This was quickly followed by a motion to table and on the initial voice vote only one voice said 'No'. However, the chair called a roll call vote and the motion to table was carried 10-8, so I suspect several members covering their backs with their local crazies.

A few asides:

1) the debate was short( 10 - 15 minutes ) and compared to the sort of debates we see on this board and others rather lightweight and unsophisticated;
2)during an earlier recess, the microphones were left on and I distinctly heard on representative refer to 'the crazy birthers';
3) two of the votes in favour and against tabling were done by proxy - I wonder if they would have still done so if they'd heard the debate?

_________________
They laughed at Columbus, they laughed at Fulton, they laughed at the Wright brothers. But they also laughed at Bozo the Clown. – Carl Sagan


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Mon Feb 14, 2011 2:29 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Fri Jan 23, 2009 1:33 pm
Posts: 23530
Thanks for the great report, WD.

And thanks for monitoring these debates for us.

_________________
Let us tenderly and kindly cherish, therefore, the means of knowledge. Let us dare to read, think, speak, and write.
John Adams


ImageImage


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Mon Feb 14, 2011 2:30 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Sat Feb 14, 2009 6:47 pm
Posts: 3772
Location: USA
Occupation: Cat petter, RN with license voluntarily inactive, just like Michelle Obama's law license.
Thanks WD!

Welsh Dragon wrote:
His version required both parents to be US citizens at birth a proposition that even he didn't agree with!


Geeze Louise, the birthers are so rabid to exclude President Obama that they can't even think straight! :roll:

_________________
esseff44 wrote: She reminded listeners that it does not matter how many cases she loses because she only has to win one!

A Legal Lohengrin wrote: That's the reasoning of a terrorist. A terrorist has to succeed only once, too.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Mon Feb 14, 2011 3:26 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Mon Jun 15, 2009 6:22 am
Posts: 6434
Location: downstairs
Flathead Memo

Quote:
Birther bill supporters are the fire-eaters of the 21st Century ...

No one should have illusions about this bill’s true purpose. If enacted into law HB-205 would settle nothing. The people behind these laws are not interested in establishing a bright line standard of proof for settling questions of a candidate’s citizenship. Were documentation meeting the letter of the law presented, it never would be accepted. HB-205 has but one objective: to help delegitimize President Obama’s claim to citizenship and American values by presenting him as a pretender, as a foreign-born black Islamic extremist, as the Manchurian Candidate from Nairobi.

The zealotry and recklessness underlying this legislation and campaign are breathtaking. We have not seen the like for 150 years. In conviction, fecklessness, tenor, and all other manner, they resemble the southern fire-eaters who were hellbent on destroying the union so they could preserve slavery. Today’s fire-eaters are not trying to re-impose human slavery, but they are trying to destroy the legacy of the New Deal and Great Society — Social Security, fair wages, government regulation of critical economic sectors, Medicare, Medicaid — so that America’s poor and middle classes can be economically re-enslaved to the genre of crooks and greedy scoundrels who brought us the Great Depression. They’re willing to accept great economic damage to the country to get their way, for they believe they will rise from the wreckage richer than ever. HB-205 is part of that scheme.

_________________
I have never made but one prayer to God, a very short one: "O Lord make my enemies ridiculous." And God granted it.--Voltaire


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Mon Feb 14, 2011 6:38 pm 
Offline

Joined: Thu Apr 09, 2009 1:27 am
Posts: 1666
Location: Southern Gondwana
So am I correct in thinking that this bill was not passed on to the next stage but just sits there until somebody does something about it.
If that is the case and no action is taken then the bill just fades away. Please correct me if I am wrong!
Regards .........Dick


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Mon Feb 14, 2011 7:11 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Mon Jun 15, 2009 6:22 am
Posts: 6434
Location: downstairs
Correct, Raj. It can be reconsidered at a later time, but probably won't.

_________________
I have never made but one prayer to God, a very short one: "O Lord make my enemies ridiculous." And God granted it.--Voltaire


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Tue Feb 15, 2011 10:43 am 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Wed Sep 09, 2009 5:27 pm
Posts: 7262
Location: Intersection of Godwin Dr. and Poe Blvd.
Occupation: Personal security.
realist wrote:
Thanks for the great report, WD.

And thanks for monitoring these debates for us.

Ditto! :-bd :-bd Thanks.

_________________
ImageImageImageImage
"You unlock this door with the key of imagination. Beyond it is another dimension - a dimension of unsound mind, a dimension of unreality, a dimension of really, really bad law. You've just crossed over into the Orly Zone." -- Geritol

ZOOM IN, BABY. IT'S ALL WRONG.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Tue Feb 15, 2011 1:18 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Tue Sep 08, 2009 3:24 pm
Posts: 6626
Is a Birther Legislation ScoreCard in order?


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Tue Feb 15, 2011 1:21 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Tue Jan 18, 2011 12:48 am
Posts: 4537
Occupation: Professional pain in the ass.
kimba wrote:
Is a Birther Legislation ScoreCard in order?


I second that!

_________________
Pity the poor Birthers, for they know not how to Think.

Turning the Scale.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Tue Feb 15, 2011 1:27 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Fri Jan 23, 2009 1:33 pm
Posts: 23530
viewtopic.php?f=59&t=5407&p=209642#p209293

_________________
Let us tenderly and kindly cherish, therefore, the means of knowledge. Let us dare to read, think, speak, and write.
John Adams


ImageImage


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Tue Feb 15, 2011 1:52 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Mon Aug 10, 2009 3:29 pm
Posts: 2570
Location: In exile in NOVA
realist wrote:
http://www.thefogbow.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=59&t=5407&p=209642#p209293


It needs updating - I'll try and do it later today. I'll also be posting a bit summary of how I'm seeing the big picture on the eligibility bills later

_________________
They laughed at Columbus, they laughed at Fulton, they laughed at the Wright brothers. But they also laughed at Bozo the Clown. – Carl Sagan


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Tue Feb 15, 2011 5:15 pm 
Offline

Joined: Wed Jul 01, 2009 3:29 pm
Posts: 3285
Location: Kailua, HI (home) Honolulu, HI (work)
Occupation: Development Director for The Arc in Hawaii (non-profit supporting adults with intellectual and developmental disabilities)
You're the best, WD - and you must be sooooooo excited - your stuff has even been singled out by O RLY??
God Bless!

Offtopic :
Did anyone else notice that the P & E "Rainbow Bear" video post included "God Bless" at the end? Moroni??

_________________
"This leap...is where counsel entered the thicket of legal frivolity."
Judge Clay D. Land - Oct. 13, 2009


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Wed Feb 16, 2011 1:24 am 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Sat Jan 24, 2009 3:26 pm
Posts: 5510
Location: You Sue-We Serve Legal Support Services, 500 Ala Moana Blvd., Honolulu, HI 96813
Anderson Cooper did a hit piece on the Montana birther bill tonight. The bill's sponsor came off looking as stoopid as he is, and then Jeffrey Toobin dimissed the Vattel nonsense. \:D/

_________________
“I can assure you that already in the Pavlovian swamps of the nutso right, the glands are swelling. Theirs is a different planet from the one you and I inhabit. ” - Newsweek/Daily Beast special correspondent and editor of Democracy: A Journal of Ideas, Michael Tomasky, May 12, 2013


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Wed Feb 16, 2011 5:47 am 
Offline

Joined: Wed Oct 07, 2009 7:45 am
Posts: 1541
Location: The Wilds of Socialist Europe
Occupation: Top Democrat Operative (International Division).
Butterfly Bilderberg wrote:
Jeffrey Toobin dimissed the Vattel nonsense. \:D/


But even he got the (majority) of the Vattel Birther(s) stance slightly wrong, saying Vattel said not only do you have to be born in the US, but both your parents have to be born in the US.

Edit: This has also been picked up by the people at the P&E. Coopers 360 show staff can now expect many angry emails from full metal de Vattelites.


Top
 Profile  
 
Display posts from previous:  Sort by  
Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 41 posts ]  Go to page Previous  1, 2   

All times are UTC - 5 hours [ DST ]


Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 0 guests


You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot post attachments in this forum

Jump to:  
View new posts | View active topics



Powered by phpBB® Forum Software © phpBB Group