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PostPosted: Wed Jan 26, 2011 11:30 pm 
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Look no further: Nebraska has given us our first Vattelite birther bill.

http://nebraskalegislature.gov/FloorDoc ... /LB654.pdf

Here's the relevant language from the bill stating what is to be required of candidates in Presidential elections. Note: I'm not breaking the paragraph rule, because what follows is just paragraphs 4-6 of the bill.

Quote:
4 (4) Each person who wishes to have his or her name placed
5 on the general election ballot as a candidate for President or Vice
6 President of the United States shall first meet the eligibility
7 requirements of Article II, section 1, of the Constitution of the
8 United States. Such person shall submit an affidavit to the Secretary
9 of State along with supporting documentation as specified in
10 subsections (5) and (6) of this section by September 8 of the year in
11 which the election is scheduled. The affidavit and supporting
12 documentation shall be a public record.

13 (5) The affidavit shall be sworn or affirmed before a
14 notary public and shall contain statements substantially as follows:
15 I was born a citizen of the United States of America and
16 was subject exclusively to the jurisdiction of the United States of
17 America, owing allegiance to no other country at the time of my
18 birth. On the day I was born, both my birth mother and birth father
19 were citizens of the United States of America. As further evidence of
20 the above statements, I have attached the items required in
21 subsection (6) of this section.

22 As of inauguration day, ........ (insert year office will
23 be assumed upon election), I will have obtained the age of thirty
24 five years and will have resided in the United States of America for
25 at least fourteen years, including the following periods at the
1 corresponding address(es)(add additional sheets if necessary):

2 (6)(a) Each candidate for President or Vice President of
3 the United States shall (i) attach documents as indicated in each of
4 the three requirements in the following subdivisions, some of which
5 require multiple documents, (ii) state in the affidavit which
6 required documents are attached that meet such requirements, and
7 (iii) include in the affidavit, statements substantially as indicated
8 in this subsection as applicable.

9 (b) Requirement number one: One of the following in
10 subdivision (i) or (ii) of this subdivision:
11 (i) A certified copy of my first original long-form birth
12 certificate issued shortly after the time of my birth; or
13 (ii) Only if the document described in subdivision (i) of
14 this subdivision is not obtainable under the laws of the state that
15 issued my birth certificate, then both documents described in
16 subdivisions (A) and (B) of this subdivision:
17 (A) A certified copy of my certification of live birth
18 which includes the names of my birth parents who are listed on my
19 first original long-form birth certificate issued shortly after the
20 time of my birth; and
21 (B) A sworn and acknowledged affidavit by me stating that
22 my parents names contained on my certification of live birth are the
23 same birth parent names as contained on my first original birth
24 certificate;
25 (C) Requirement number two: One of the following in
1 subdivision (i) or (ii) or (iii) or (iv) or (v) of this subdivision:
2 (i) A certified copy of my birth mother's long-form birth
3 certificate indicating her United States citizenship;
4 (ii) Only if the document described in subdivision (i) of
5 this subdivision is not obtainable under the laws of the state that
6 issued my mother's birth certificate, then both documents described
7 in subdivisions (A) and (B) of this subdivision:
8 (A) A certified copy of my mother's certification of live
9 birth indicating her United States citizenship; and
10 (B) A sworn and acknowledged affidavit by me stating my
11 mother's place of birth as denoted on her long-form birth certificate
12 and stating that her parents names contained on her certification of
13 live birth are the same parent names as contained on her long-form
14 birth certificate;
15 (iii) My birth mother's Certificate of United States
16 Naturalization showing she obtained United States citizenship prior
17 to my date of birth;
18 (iv) My birth mother's Certificate of United States
19 Citizenship showing she obtained United States citizenship prior to
20 my date of birth; or
21 (v) Certified copies of documents that indicate my mother
22 was a United States citizen prior to my birth, being the same
23 documents as those required to obtain a Certificate of United States
24 Citizenship; and

25 (c) Requirement number three: One of the following in
1 subdivision (i) or (ii) or (iii) or (iv) or (v) or (vi) of this
2 subdivision:
3 (i) A certified copy of my birth father's long-form birth
4 certificate indicating his United States citizenship;
5 (ii) Only if the document described in subdivision (i) of
6 this subdivision is not obtainable under the laws of the state that
7 issued my father's birth certificate, then both documents described
8 in subdivisions (A) and (B) of this subdivision:
9 (A) A certified copy of my father's certification of live
10 birth indicating his United States citizenship; and
11 (B) A sworn and acknowledged affidavit by me stating my
12 father's place of birth as denoted on his long-form birth certificate
13 and stating that his parents names contained on his certification of
14 live birth are the same parent names as contained on his long-form
15 birth certificate;
16 (iii) My birth father's Certificate of United States
17 Naturalization showing he obtained United States citizenship prior to
18 my date of birth;
19 (iv) My birth father's Certificate of United States
20 Citizenship showing he obtained United States citizenship prior to my
21 date of birth;
22 (v) Certified copies of documents that indicate my father
23 was a United States citizen prior to my birth, being the same
24 documents as those required to obtain a Certificate of United States
25 Citizenship; or
1 (vi) A sworn and acknowledged affidavit by me stating
2 that (A) no father is listed on my first original long-form birth
3 certificate, (B) I do not know who my birth father is and (C) I have
4 no reason to believe my birth father was not a United States citizen
5 at the time of my birth.


Oh yes, it's a 'two-citizen-parent' birther bill. It's not just imposing an onerous standard of proof on Presidential candidates like all those other bills; it's making up new requirements that only birthers believe in.

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PostPosted: Thu Jan 27, 2011 12:24 am 
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:shock:

That'll pass constitutional muster for about 5 seconds.

](*,) ](*,)

Hell, that doesn't even pass common sense muster. [-(

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PostPosted: Thu Jan 27, 2011 12:52 am 
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realist wrote:
:shock:

That'll pass constitutional muster for about 5 seconds.

](*,) ](*,)

Hell, that doesn't even pass common sense muster. [-(


You think it will take *that* long???

The only thing I can think of is that a) the author knows damn well this won't past any form of legal sniff test so they'll throw a bone to the birthers and go "see, we *tried*!!"

or b) the author is dumber than a Yugo full of anvils.

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PostPosted: Mon Jan 31, 2011 7:26 am 
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Question!
If one of these "Birfer" Bills becomes law, who can challenge and when can it be challenged in court. Can anyone challenge or does it it have to be a candidate.
Could President Obama challenge as soon as the bill becomes law or would he have to wait until he actually applies to be on the ballot and it is refused.
I see that in one bill the application to be on the ballot closes on Sept 8th of election year. That doesn't leave much time for a challenge before the election.
Regards .............Dick


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PostPosted: Mon Jan 31, 2011 9:50 am 
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Occupation: I'm not at liberty to say. In other words, I'd tell you, but then I'd have to kill you.
oh wow!


Who's Your Daddy?

; or
1 (vi) A sworn and acknowledged affidavit by me stating
2 that (A) no father is listed on my first original long-form birth
3 certificate, (B) I do not know who my birth father is and (C) I have
4 no reason to believe my birth father was not a United States citizen
5 at the time of my birth.

:P


My parents aren't listed on my birth certificate (COLB or whatever it is). I wonder if I'm adopted? :-? Though I do share some familial traits with my siblings. Hey, their parents aren't listed on their birth certificates either. :-? Oh what a tangled web.

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PostPosted: Mon Jan 31, 2011 11:56 am 
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I'm unable to connect here:

http://nebraskalegislature.gov/FloorDoc ... /LB654.pdf

Anyone else have this problem?

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PostPosted: Mon Jan 31, 2011 11:58 am 
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Adelante wrote:
I'm unable to connect here:

http://nebraskalegislature.gov/FloorDoc ... /LB654.pdf

Anyone else have this problem?


Works for me, Adelante.

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PostPosted: Mon Jan 31, 2011 12:08 pm 
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Occupation: I'm not at liberty to say. In other words, I'd tell you, but then I'd have to kill you.
The link works for me.

It's 14 pages long, else I would post.

This pdf won't open or download for you?
http://nebraskalegislature.gov/FloorDoc ... /LB654.pdf


Other site tells me:
Quote:
History
2011-01-21 - Referred to Government, Military and Veterans Affairs Committee
2011-01-19 - Date of introduction

http://e-lobbyist.com/gaits/NE/LB654

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PostPosted: Mon Jan 31, 2011 12:14 pm 
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I wrote to Sen Mark Christensen this morning and pointed out just a few of the problems with his bill. I asked him if he really thought he could amend the US Constitution with his state bill or was he just engaging in "birther theater", putting on a show for his birther constituents. I told him that he should be ashamed of dabbling in birthism, which is simply a way to denigrate and harass President Obama. I also suggested to him that birthism ruins everyone it touches and used prisoner Lakin as an example. I closed by saying I hoped he woud reconsider and withdraw the bill. If he answers, I'll post the answer here. I also directed him to Fogbow for more information on the perils and failures of birthism.

Does anyone know what kind of birth certificate the State of Nebraska currently issues, what information is on it? I was hoping I would find that Nebraska issues a certificate similar to Hawaii's and that his bill would exclude even Nebraskans but I couldn't find one.


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PostPosted: Mon Jan 31, 2011 12:45 pm 
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This is what I get:

Quote:
The connection has timed out


The server at nebraskalegislature.gov is taking too long to respond.


I can probably figure it out from what's in the thread. Perhaps Jack Ryan will build a birfer legislation collection on Scribd when he has time. ;;)

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PostPosted: Mon Jan 31, 2011 1:10 pm 
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To get a driver's license in Nebraska:

Quote:
2. A certified birth certificate issued by a State Government Office. Individuals presenting city or county birth certificates may be asked to provide additional identification documents. Hospital issued birth certificates cannot be accepted nor can Puerto Rican birth certificates issued prior to September 30, 2010.

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PostPosted: Mon Jan 31, 2011 3:35 pm 
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Adelante wrote:
This is what I get:

Quote:
The connection has timed out


The server at nebraskalegislature.gov is taking too long to respond.


I can probably figure it out from what's in the thread. Perhaps Jack Ryan will build a birfer legislation collection on Scribd when he has time. ;;)


I'm working on a Birther Bill scorecard - it's taking longer than I expected because of other things going on but it'll get finished sometime this week (probably Wednesday). I'm going to put at least some of Bills on my Scibd Page and sense Adie's having trouble with this one here's a link to my Scribd copy:

http://www.scribd.com/doc/47903318/Nebraska-LB654-2011-Christens-En

PS the 'scorecard' I'm doing incorporates a checklist of the requirements of each bill.

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PostPosted: Mon Jan 31, 2011 3:36 pm 
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Thank you, WD :)

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PostPosted: Mon Jan 31, 2011 4:34 pm 
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My state legislature has an Office of Legislative Services, through which all proposed bills must pass. The OLS checks to make sure they're properly written and can survive legal challenges. I guess all states don't have this kind of thing?? :-k

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PostPosted: Mon Jan 31, 2011 4:35 pm 
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Examiner wrote:
My state legislature has an Office of Legislative Services, through which all proposed bills must pass. The OLS checks to make sure they're properly written and can survive legal challenges. I guess all states don't have this kind of thing?? :-k

What's the OLS's batting average?

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PostPosted: Mon Jan 31, 2011 6:28 pm 
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rajah wrote:
Question!
If one of these "Birfer" Bills becomes law, who can challenge and when can it be challenged in court. Can anyone challenge or does it it have to be a candidate.
Could President Obama challenge as soon as the bill becomes law or would he have to wait until he actually applies to be on the ballot and it is refused.
I see that in one bill the application to be on the ballot closes on Sept 8th of election year. That doesn't leave much time for a challenge before the election.
Regards .............Dick

Does anyone know the answer to this. I ask this as a non American and non lawyer. I am assuming that you cant appeal a law until it affects you. Answer please someone!
Regards ..........Dick


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PostPosted: Mon Jan 31, 2011 6:42 pm 
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rajah wrote:
rajah wrote:
Question!
If one of these "Birfer" Bills becomes law, who can challenge and when can it be challenged in court. Can anyone challenge or does it it have to be a candidate.
Could President Obama challenge as soon as the bill becomes law or would he have to wait until he actually applies to be on the ballot and it is refused.
I see that in one bill the application to be on the ballot closes on Sept 8th of election year. That doesn't leave much time for a challenge before the election.
Regards .............Dick

Does anyone know the answer to this. I ask this as a non American and non lawyer. I am assuming that you cant appeal a law until it affects you. Answer please someone!
Regards ..........Dick

There are 51 systems of law here in the U.S., Rajah, so answering a question untethered to any state or federal law is perilous.

In California (where there will be no birfer bill), the law could be challenged by someone with standing (possibly simply a voter) on the grounds it imposed qualifications on presidential candidates for whom the plaintiff could vote (or for the electors for such) which were unconstitutional. If other states permit pre-application challenges, they will be made. And I suspect challenges (seeking to enjoin the statutes in question) can be made in state or federal court.

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PostPosted: Mon Jan 31, 2011 7:23 pm 
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Thanks Stern, That gives me some idea what to look for
Regards .............Dick


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PostPosted: Fri Feb 04, 2011 7:06 pm 
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Orly just noticed:

Quote:
Birther kingdom is growing. NE is the 13 th state to file eligibility bill. A couple more states should be filing. I need my supporters from SC, MN and PA to call me at 949-683-5411

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PostPosted: Fri Feb 04, 2011 7:17 pm 
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I like how she still can't get the number of states right.

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ASSUME ANYTHING WRITTEN HERE WILL END UP ON TAITZ'S SITE AND FACEBOOK. AND JEROME CORSI WILL POST SCREENSHOTS TO WND. AND WILL BE FILED BY A BIRTHER AS AN EXHIBIT IN FEDERAL COURT. NOW HAVE FUN!


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PostPosted: Fri Feb 04, 2011 7:25 pm 
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Examiner wrote:
Orly just noticed:

Quote:
Birther kingdom is growing. NE is the 13 th state to file eligibility bill. A couple more states should be filing. I need my supporters from SC, MN and PA to call me at 949-683-5411


Hmm PA I understand, SC had a failed bill in 2009 so it wouldn't surprise me if someone tried again but MN - that the first hint I've had about there. What's Orly know that I don't know? :-k

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PostPosted: Sat Feb 05, 2011 1:05 pm 
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Quote:
Christensen said he was motivated to sponsor the bill after receiving two or three e-mails from constituents who are concerned about the persistent rumors that President Barack Obama is not a citizen. [snip]

"Whenever you have alarge amount of citizens who have doubts, it hurts our government. It hurts the integrity of the government," Christensen said.


A commenter replies

Quote:
Since when does "receiving two or three e-mails from constituents" constitute "a large amount of citizens who have doubts"? If my wife, my son and I email him stating that we think he's a nutjob, will he introduce a bill banning nutjobs from holding office? Sure would create a lot of vacancies!


=))


Quote:
John Gruhl, a University of Nebraska-Lincoln political science professor who specializes in constitutional law, called Christensen's bill "puzzling."

"Parents don't have to be citizens for their children to be citizens," Gruhl said. "So what's the point of this provision? To embarrass a candidate whose parents aren't citizens? To discourage a candidate from running in the first place, so his parents aren't exposed?"


Another Birther Oblivious constitutional scholar who forgot all about Vattel. :shock: 8-)

http://www.mccookgazette.com/story/1700284.html


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PostPosted: Sat Feb 05, 2011 6:57 pm 
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The two parent thing is absurd. What if a woman who has never even left the USA is raped and impregnated by someone who is not legally in the country. So, her child would not be considered a natural born citizen? That's ridiculous.


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PostPosted: Sat Feb 05, 2011 8:19 pm 
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Here's a funny thing I missed about this bill the first time. The last clause I quoted above is this:

Quote:
1 (vi) A sworn and acknowledged affidavit by me stating
2 that (A) no father is listed on my first original long-form birth
3 certificate, (B) I do not know who my birth father is and (C) I have
4 no reason to believe my birth father was not a United States citizen
5 at the time of my birth.


There is no parallel clause under the portion demanding a birth certificate from the mother. So if you want to run for President in Nebraska, and you're an orphan or adoptee who does not know the identity of your birth mother...sorry!

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PostPosted: Fri Feb 18, 2011 6:16 pm 
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Nebreska's Vattelist birther bill is scheduled for a committee hearing on March 10th.

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