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PostPosted: Thu Oct 21, 2010 10:29 am 
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jy1977 wrote:
If you trying to order certified copies, you will only get the COLB. Perhaps Danae needs to go the Hawaii herself and see the documents for herself. According to Hawaii Law, Danae has the right and power to inspect any and all records pertaining to her birth which would include the long-form BC. If Hawai denies her, they are breaking the law. If Hawaii has Danae's long-form BC in some vault and assuming Danae is entitled under the statute, then Danae has the right to see the long-form BC. Any of these comments from Hawaii officials are clearly lies as they covering for Obama. The long-form BC is available. Hawaii law is quite clear on that. The only way you would not see the long-form BC would be if is was lost or destroyed. If it exists, you can see it.

And you know this because . . .?

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PostPosted: Thu Oct 21, 2010 11:01 am 
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jy1977 wrote:
Isetopos elitetub sidona di horen! Eture ade etutam inarebe enan; otesayim nerotet litorac siso demi toyorap lunelo! Seretol mana ra sit cosiewi apotatam, rahac nemori ovasep nile bona obilap cigo yos gabipa liv. Yerol evemo fen idaric lareni nicepe. Odene helec rolure ilefi tosaj? Megi xi geneku. Do resone calogay bimak disomi. Nasihe igenac tecola irudaner aho log yapape erohah nit tepuyag. Epace gedetiek aniselo lacie tabe otoneh! Cori le po midedif biet, so nadure udes rocieloh ode? Na nonap ebomale ne sovotam.

Utenev tiyet big tuf reneni iconafet bana na pahur acereren. Ularil ihiep madalo ron! Xori ara ra virace ageg lewolie niro, tiyahep larur rod ehilalek esosoto dalole ejeral lo! Isa reg turofes ruv uni. Rici mepa ci ticey cir payuc inarobi rodos roso eyecepi! Ulec iguser tihe linocol powo toden yi. Unolecie vuse tilet oleriteb li tal. Rakelet na tu pedo to urieber: Sop nelawan ro, ielu losenet pi sica, sanaco itomerie niti lay iecayaf ton! Corot cota olowey meritig curecoh oralosi nietalal adalot samade osibat; aco ho yona, ref tamaz rugon ayis iene iedeba. La si rege tume nuf tot.


:?

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PostPosted: Thu Oct 21, 2010 12:03 pm 
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jy1977 wrote:
Any of these comments from Hawaii officials are clearly lies as they covering for Obama. The long-form BC is available. Hawaii law is quite clear on that. The only way you would not see the long-form BC would be if is was lost or destroyed. If it exists, you can see it.


Well, then shows us a picture, not a highly edited version which may very well have been based on a document Danae already had in her possession? She posted a picture before taken with an iphone, so she has the means...

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PostPosted: Thu Oct 21, 2010 1:08 pm 
If even Danae is lying, given the situation with Obama, I doubt Hawaii would allow you to obtain your long-form BC. Although Hawaiin Law allows access to the long-form BC, it would probably take a lawsuit to obtain it. Hawaiin Official certainly don't want anyone getting their hands on their long-form BC. Such actions would be bad for Obama and make Hawaiin Officials into even more blatant liars.


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PostPosted: Thu Oct 21, 2010 1:21 pm 
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jy1977

I kind of irks me that you would accuse the fine public servants of Hawaii of lying and a cover up with not one shred of proof. The fact that you seem incapable of understanding the laws of their state is your problem. I have spoken with several folks in the government on two separate occasions and they have been courteous and helpful. I believe they take their jobs of providing accurate records yet protecting privacy according to the law very seriously. If I were in their place I would probably tell the birthers stick it where the sun doesn't shine but they are more professional than I could be.

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Grant me the superior wit and biting sarcasm to mock the Birthers whose minds I cannot change
The superior facts, law, and reason to change the minds of the Birthers whom I can
And the wisdom to team up at Politijab The Fogbow with those who share my addiction and know the difference


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PostPosted: Thu Oct 21, 2010 1:25 pm 
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Reality Check wrote:
jy1977

I kind of irks me that you would accuse the fine public servants of Hawaii of lying and a cover up with not one shred of proof. The fact that you seem incapable of understanding the laws of their state is your problem. I have spoken with several folks in the government on two separate occasions and they have been courteous and helpful. I believe they take their jobs of providing accurate records yet protecting privacy according to the law very seriously. If I were in their place I would probably tell the birthers stick it where the sun doesn't shine but they are more professional than I could be.


You mean they didn't call you a blowhard? =)) They didn't tell you that you were talking ying yang? :lol:

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PostPosted: Thu Oct 21, 2010 1:25 pm 
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Quote:
Although Hawaiin Law allows access to the long-form BC, it would probably take a lawsuit to obtain it.


Apparently you realize now you were hoaxed by Denae, or you'd be insisting it's recently been done. Put your money where your mouth is and test your theory with someone born in Hawaii around 1960, 1961 who is not involved in birthism. I'll help you out on how to accomplish it. Put an ad in Honolulu Craig's List for someone born in Honolulu in 196o or 1961 and offer them $100 by PayPal to go to the Dept of Health, ask to review their birth records, record the event and then post it/ report what they experienced directly at thefogbow.com without ever contacting you. Edit Payment due from you after posting. You pay $25 up front and the balance on posting results at thefogbow.com.


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PostPosted: Thu Oct 21, 2010 1:30 pm 
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jy1977 wrote:
If even Danae is lying, given the situation with Obama, I doubt Hawaii would allow you to obtain your long-form BC. Although Hawaiin Law allows access to the long-form BC, it would probably take a lawsuit to obtain it. Hawaiin Official certainly don't want anyone getting their hands on their long-form BC. Such actions would be bad for Obama and make Hawaiin Officials into even more blatant liars.



Yes, it's far easier to accuse people of being liars than actually proving this...

But perhaps you are not interested in establishing the truth, just your preferred version of it? Otherwise, you would the first to ask Danae for additional information. Unless of course, you like to be manipulated by your ignorance.

Facts trump empty speculation dear jy...
And the facts so far are not really on your side of the argument, hence your need to accuse, without ANY evidence, that Hawaiian officials are liars.

Dr C points out two points, first that he is aware of other jurisdictions printing plain paper long forms, second that absent any verifiable indicators such as security paper, date stamp, signature and raised seal, noone would accept Obama's certificate if presented as Danae has

Quote:
Without any doubt however, if Barack Obama were to issue a document like this, not on security paper, not signed, not dated, not sealed, the birthers would not accept it.

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PostPosted: Thu Oct 21, 2010 2:22 pm 
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nbc wrote:
Dr C points out two points, first that he is aware of other jurisdictions printing plain paper long forms, second that absent any verifiable indicators such as security paper, date stamp, signature and raised seal, noone would accept Obama's certificate if presented as Danae has

Quote:
Without any doubt however, if Barack Obama were to issue a document like this, not on security paper, not signed, not dated, not sealed, the birthers would not accept it.

Actually, unless Obama's long form BC contained incriminating information they could use against him, birthers wouldn't accept it even if it was hand delivered by Jesus Christ himself.

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PostPosted: Thu Oct 21, 2010 2:37 pm 
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note upper lrft title, "Research and Statistics Office”

Research and Statistics Office is not in the Health Dept, it is in the labor dept and its function is to provide information that can help with research, business planning, job search and career decisions. Plus it's pretty short for a long form. I say FAKE!


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PostPosted: Thu Oct 21, 2010 2:38 pm 
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jy1977 wrote:
Although Hawaiin Law allows access to the long-form BC,...

You keep saying this. Exactly what law are you talking about?

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esseff44 wrote: She reminded listeners that it does not matter how many cases she loses because she only has to win one!

A Legal Lohengrin wrote: That's the reasoning of a terrorist. A terrorist has to succeed only once, too.


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PostPosted: Thu Oct 21, 2010 2:40 pm 
Actually much speculation has made that Frank Marshall Davis could Obama's real father and maybe that might be shown on the long-form BC. If true, Obama would a NBC since Davis was a US Citizen. (And assuming Obama can get by his Indonesian problem) In that case, it would represent the biggest lie Obama has ever put forth to the American people.


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PostPosted: Thu Oct 21, 2010 2:44 pm 
Sequoia32 wrote:
jy1977 wrote:
Although Hawaiin Law allows access to the long-form BC,...

You keep saying this. Exactly what law are you talking about?

Sure,

§338-18 Disclosure of records.

(b) The department shall not permit inspection of public health statistics records.......

"Public health statistics" includes the registration, preparation, transcription, collection, compilation, and preservation of data pertaining to births....

Assuming you qualify under the statute, you have the right to inspect any and all records pertaining to your birth in Hawaii. This would include the long-form BC.


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PostPosted: Thu Oct 21, 2010 2:49 pm 
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Sequoia32 wrote:
jy1977 wrote:
Although Hawaiin Law allows access to the long-form BC,...

You keep saying this. Exactly what law are you talking about?

He doesn't need no stinkin badges proof. He's a birfer.

He'll cite whatever he wants, if he wants to, and it won't be proof except in his own gullible mind. Just as he's done immediately above.

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PostPosted: Thu Oct 21, 2010 3:01 pm 
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Quote:
§338-18 Disclosure of records. (a) To protect the integrity of vital statistics records, to ensure their proper use, and to ensure the efficient and proper administration of the vital statistics system, it shall be unlawful for any person to permit inspection of, or to disclose information contained in vital statistics records, or to copy or issue a copy of all or part of any such record, except as authorized by this part or by rules adopted by the department of health.
(b) [highlight]The department shall not permit inspection of public health statistics records, or issue a certified copy of any such record or part thereof, unless it is satisfied that the applicant has a direct and tangible interest in the record.[/highlight] The following persons shall be considered to have a direct and tangible interest in a public health statistics record:



The statute does not say the department must permit inspection of public health statistics records, or issue a certified copy of any record or part thereof, if it is satisfied the applicant has a direct and tangible interest in the record. Try again. "Shall not unless." does not mean "Must if" Why don't you take my suggestion and have someone born in Honolulu in 1960 or 1961 go to the Dept of Health and ask to inspect their records. Comeon, jy, step up to the plate.


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PostPosted: Thu Oct 21, 2010 3:02 pm 
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jy1977 wrote:
Actually much speculation has made that Frank Marshall Davis could Obama's real father and maybe that might be shown on the long-form BC. If true, Obama would a NBC since Davis was a US Citizen. (And assuming Obama can get by his Indonesian problem) In that case, it would represent the biggest lie Obama has ever put forth to the American people.


"Much speculation" by a bunch of hating nutcases who live, as Stern noted above, to undermine the President. And there is no "Indonesian problem". You are spewing forth typical birther BS. We've heard this all before. Do you have anything new to add to the conversation?

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PostPosted: Thu Oct 21, 2010 3:06 pm 
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jy1977 wrote:
Sequoia32 wrote:
jy1977 wrote:
Although Hawaiin Law allows access to the long-form BC,...

You keep saying this. Exactly what law are you talking about?

Sure,

§338-18 Disclosure of records.

(b) The department shall not permit inspection of public health statistics records.......

"Public health statistics" includes the registration, preparation, transcription, collection, compilation, and preservation of data pertaining to births....

Assuming you qualify under the statute, you have the right to inspect any and all records pertaining to your birth in Hawaii. This would include the long-form BC.


Nowhere does that statute say that anyone can inspect the records except
Quote:
(9) A person whose right to inspect or obtain a certified copy of the record [highlight]is established by an order of a court[/highlight] of competent jurisdiction;


All of the others are allowed a certified copy of a record or a part of the record.

Nowhere does it say that the requester gets to specify whether they get a copy of the record or just part of the record.

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esseff44 wrote: She reminded listeners that it does not matter how many cases she loses because she only has to win one!

A Legal Lohengrin wrote: That's the reasoning of a terrorist. A terrorist has to succeed only once, too.


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PostPosted: Thu Oct 21, 2010 3:09 pm 
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Quote:
You are spewing forth typical birther BS.


He's trying to distract from being unable to demonstrate that the Dept of Health is required to allow someone to inspect a long form birth certificate if it exists by throwing every birther myth into the mix. Next will be what passport he used to travel to Pakistan, then who paid for his schooling, then if Obama was really a student at Columbia, then how he got to be the editor of the Harvard Review, then how he wasn't really a law prof at Univ of Chicago, then that his law license was revoked, then that Michelle was disbarred. One car after another in the birther crazy train to try to change the conversation from he's got nuthin.


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PostPosted: Thu Oct 21, 2010 3:21 pm 
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Danae at fr:
Quote:
To: curiosity

Good lord.....

You really can’t fix stupid can you?

Where did I say it was a certified copy? You show me that. It seems to me that it is OBVIOUS that this is NOT a certified copy, and NO WHERE have I said that it is. I was asked by ONAKA himself, if I needed an certified copy or not on Monday Sept 27th. I answered honestly that I did not know. And that is the truth. I didn’t know from the organization I am applying to, if they needed a certified copy or not. Onaka chose to send me an un-certified copy. If that is not sufficient for the organization for which I need it, I will ask yet again and specify that I do need that certified copy. I know exactly who I need to talk to about it as well.

The point being, I was ASKED which one I needed.

What has been posted is a copy made for me by the Hawaii Department of Health. The receipt which shows I paid 10$ for it is ALSO pictured. If you LOOK at the thing notice something different??? Come on pay attention!

Look the bottom of it. The HDOH copy has something that MY copy for the same document does NOT. It has an identification of RACE for both of my parents. The copy made for my by my Mother in 2000 DOES NOT HAVE THAT. Quite literally the copy sent to me by HDOH and mailed Sept 30th 2010, has MORE information on it than any other record I previously have owned.

The date of issuance is the same date as is on the receipt.

1,442 posted on Thursday, October 21, 2010 11:20:14 AM by Danae


I can't post there but I want to know just HOW Onaka asked her if she wanted a certified or uncertified copy.

You can't order by phone, fax or email. Only in person, by mail and online with a service like vitalcheck.com.

So did Onaka make a long distance call to ask her a nonsensical question?

Why would anyone order a non-certified copy of their own BC?

Where does it even say than a non-certified copy is available, other than the letter of verification which would ONLY have whatever info the requester provided and there is nowhere to provide hospital, MD or race?

Diana Cotter is a LIAR.

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esseff44 wrote: She reminded listeners that it does not matter how many cases she loses because she only has to win one!

A Legal Lohengrin wrote: That's the reasoning of a terrorist. A terrorist has to succeed only once, too.


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PostPosted: Thu Oct 21, 2010 3:27 pm 
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Sequoia32 wrote:
Danae at fr:

Diana Cotter is a LIAR.


I am not sure, she is making some good points here. Onaka could clarify. I am presently tempted to believe her. Check out Dr C' s posting. The document however is not a certificate of live birth but rather a photocopy lacking any of the security features and certifications.

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PostPosted: Thu Oct 21, 2010 3:31 pm 
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Quote:
she is making some good points here.


No she's not. After everything the Hawaii Dept of Health has gone through with birthers, and the polite email or written responses we've seen to people when they request something the State doesn't provide, why would Onaka call her? Why would Hawaii ever send an uncertified copy of a public record? Her points just don't add up.


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PostPosted: Thu Oct 21, 2010 4:35 pm 
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Quote:
Do you have anything new to add to the conversation?

The only new thing jy1977 has to add to the conversation are his female judge porn & spanking fantasies that got him banned at Doc C's place. He keeps repeating the same nonsense about Hawaii providing access to long forms without showing any facts.
Oh, and he is big on the Hawaii-officials-protect-Obama-at-all-costs-for-no-apparent-reason theory.

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PostPosted: Thu Oct 21, 2010 4:48 pm 
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kimba wrote:
Quote:
she is making some good points here.


No she's not. After everything the Hawaii Dept of Health has gone through with birthers, and the polite email or written responses we've seen to people when they request something the State doesn't provide, why would Onaka call her? Why would Hawaii ever send an uncertified copy of a public record? Her points just don't add up.


Again, you are now becoming a birther yourself.

1. As Dr C has pointed out, states do send uncertified copies of a public record
2. RC talked to Onaka's office, and while they may prefer not to take phone calls, it is not out of the range of possibilities that they did talk to her.
3. The State may no longer send certified versions, but what about uncertified version?

It's too soon to call her a liar. At best the story deserves some additional information.

Do the research before jumping to conclusions, or we are nothing better than jytxx who considers Hawaiian officials to be liars by almost default.

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PostPosted: Thu Oct 21, 2010 4:56 pm 
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Quote:
Again, you are now becoming a birther yourself.


And this is becoming a pattern with you. First insult the poster then attempt to make your point. It is prevalent throughout the "Expert" constitution thread.

I don't think that's necessary, do you? You have the opinion Danae may actually finally be telling the truth about something after a couple of years of not doing so, and she thinks not. That happens to be allowed. I see no need for your comment above to be part of your response.

You're better than that.

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PostPosted: Thu Oct 21, 2010 5:01 pm 
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nbc wrote:
1. As Dr C has pointed out, states do send uncertified copies of a public record


I do not see where this is "pointed out".

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esseff44 wrote: She reminded listeners that it does not matter how many cases she loses because she only has to win one!

A Legal Lohengrin wrote: That's the reasoning of a terrorist. A terrorist has to succeed only once, too.


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