If Danae was able to publically inspect her long-form BC and take a picture of it then it would not be a certified copy. Nontheless, if Danae ordered the long-form BC and was able to get it, it would not be certified copy with the seal otherwise she would have received the COLB format which we have all seen.

As nbc says, it's easy to convert to black&white, fiddle with contrast and brightness to remove the security background. Took me about a minute (more time waiting for photobucket to load than to do the adjustments).

The receipt Danae posted at Freep has only two choices, a birth certificate or a verification letter. This is exactly the receipt that one would get for requesting a current official COLB. The image she posted online is identical to one that she had already posted on photobucket well before last month when the COLB was ordered. This is a clear intent to deceive.

No supporting evidence for that... Sorry dude, don't let reality disturb you but report back to us when you have gotten the data...

Fool

So what. If Barack Obama set up an appointment, flew to Hawaii and "Viewed his records", so what. It's not like he can walk out of the "viewing" with a copy. The COLB issued by the State of Hawaii is accepted as proof of birth in every state in the US. Review Article IV, Section 1 of your US Constitution. It is as it has always been with the "long form." The only reason anyone wants to see a "long form" from "the vault" is in hopes of learning something about Obama that you think hope you don't already know somehow embarrasses him. The "long form" is like the Holy Grail of Birthism. Something you think exists somewhere and if you could just get your hands on it, all would be revealed.

Or at a minimum there is sufficient reason to ask Danae to post a scan. She claims that is what she did but it was edited and the background was removed. She should also show the seal and date stamp. I can almost predict what it will say...

No need to predict; she said it yesterday:

"I was asked by HDOH if I needed a certified copy or not, I amswered that I did not know, which was true, I did not know if the organization I was applying to needed it or not."

I take that to mean that this is an uncertified copy. Hence no seal, no date stamp.

The "organization I was applying to"? What organization was that, Defend our Freedoms Foundation?

Good job, NBC!

You nailed the lying bitch.

All she could get was a short form so she doctored up her old one.

A verification letter would not have the MD signature on it. According to HI statutes, a verification letter can only have whatever info the requester gives on it.

Well, they seem to be doing a victory dance over at Freeperville. Simple minds are easily satiated.

Loren patiently explained the terms of the bet have NOT been met.





Danae says:


The birthers are that stupid, but the rest of us aren't.

I call BS on Danae for this reason-
Here in Illinois, when you order a birth certificate, they ask you the reason for ordering. My Mom recently ordered hers for tax purposes, and they sent her a COLB similar to Obama's.
I ordered one a few months ago after my dad died for inheritance purposes. In this case they sent me a photocopy of my original, which listed my parents. My mom's COLB doesn't list her parents. I guess Illinois figures that she didn't need a birth certificate that did for her purpose.

Here is mine:


Notice some things about mine that is different that Danae's?
1. It is a photocopy on security paper- you can see the border of the security paper..
2. It is certified at the bottom for the date I ordered it (obviously different from my birthday in 1969)

Danae's lacks these features- it looks like my original, not as a recent one sent by the state would look with the added features I listed.
I know her's is not from Illinois, but do you really think that one from Hawaii would NOT include the extra features mentioned? No security paper & no recent date to certify the copy? Ridiculous- it would have those features.

She ordered hers from Hawaii, they sent her the same COLB that they send everyone (including the President). She then scanned/photographed her original that she already had, and claimed it is what they sent her. Which has already been disproven by the scan details analysis and EXIF data.

She is a liar.

I wish FreeRepublic wasn't such a cowardly site, but that is how they keep the idiot echo chamber intact.
(Cross-posted at Doc C's)

I am waiting for her to post an actual photograph of the document..

Do you think I should be holding my breath?

Wait a minute. Did Danae say she went to Hawaii personally to order this BC?

'Cause you can't order one over the phone. So HOW did HDOH ask if she needed a certified copy or not???


They only issue certified copies or Letters of verification.



http://hawaii.gov/health/vital-records/ ... cords.html

Some questions nbc...

The source of the redacted original "Danae" certificate is this:

http://i889.photobucket.com/albums/ac92/donttreadonme2010/Political/DanaeCOLB-rotatedcropped.jpg

Who and when submitted this photo? Note the "donttreadonme2010" owner or folder. When was this scan of the original made?

The "dust dot" could just as well be a defect or dot on the original certificate - hence it would reproduce on a copy.

The original has a clear vertical fold. The "new" copy has no vertical fold, but has the horizontal folds as if mailed in a business envelope. There is also a staple in the original, but none in the new "copy".

The original has the seal visible, but appears to have the black left hand category tabs missing or edited out. I assume it was cropped as stated to remove the black tabs.

The handwritten characters "a, a, and 2" appear black in the original scan, and are faded in the "new" copy. Why? Black ink should reproduce in a copy, unless the copy was made from an original that was 41 years old. It doesn't appear the ink for the numbers was some color other than black.

I guess what I am getting at is that it would be difficult but not impossible to produce the "new" copy from the old copy by photo-editing techniques. For example, the vertical folds would need to be edited out, and new horizontal folds added back in. The staple removed - ok that's easy. But retaining the sharpness of the letters in the "new" copy and still removing all traces of the vertical fold and seal would be rather time consuming. Pixel editing could do it, given you had 20 hours or so to spend on it. Editing a fresh high resolution scan of the original would retain the quality of the original, but would still require extensive editing to make an old copy look new.

It could be simply a copy machine black and white copy of the original, with contrast turned down to wash out the seal and vertical folds. Not sure how effective that would work. And then you would need to fold the copy to fit in an envelope, before taking another digital scan for the Internet showing the horizontal folds, and fixing any remaining artifacts of the original copy with some editing. "Could be" does not prove it however.

I am not 100% convinced that the "new" copy was derived from the old copy in possession of the owner. Unless the "new" copy was made years earlier before the wear and tear on the original. Or it was made from a preserved copy scanned by the HI DOH.

Finally, where did the Race boxes at the bottom come from? That did not appear to be part of the original certificate. That data is usually included in the "really long form" with all the hospital data that is used for population studies and is not normally part of the long form certificate released to the parents. Only the DOH would have that data. However since the Race is shown on the COLB, it would make sense to release the Race data when requesting a long form copy from the HI DOH. Something to think about...

I thought I did point this out here, perhaps on OC. Yes, that did occur to me.



The staple can be easily edited away,



Indeed



They may be faded if you use brightness to remove the background.



Actually that's what I did in less than 10 minutes



Sure, there exist alternate explanations. All Danae needs to do is show a real photograph of the latest Certificate.






It may have been on the lower part of the document which has been folded back in the older version.

I am very aware that it is not exact and yet with minimal efforts I was able to make a reasonably similar version from the older version. The older version is likely the one Danae used in a previous bet regarding long forms and certain dates, or so I am told.

RC called and found out that the long forms are no longer provided, and discussed the latest certificate.
The most troublesome part is to me the lack of the security paper. I could not imagine that the DOH would supply such a document without security paper as forgery of a blank document would be trivial.

I do appreciate your observations, as they match several of my concerns as well. The most obvious one is the horizontal line in the new version.

So far the jury is out and I will grant Danae the presumption of innocence until she can provide us with an actual photograph of the document.

Yeah I'm always a skeptic, but I should add I am about 99.6% sure it is a copy of her original that she made perhaps with some expert assistance. The lack of any recent issue date or DOH stamp is a major fail. I'd suggest she request it again and this time ask for the thing to be certified, dated, stamped and signed.

We share something, a continuous doubt that we may have overlooked something simple. The fact that I managed to recreate 90% of the document without much effort points to one side, the fact that the document has a horizontal line which is harder to imitate unless the old document was refolded. Finally, the dot may be an artificact on the original and then the different levels of the written letters.

My biggest concern is that Danae's copy lacks any security paper, etc...

I called the Hawaii Department of Vital Statistics today and they said that any requests for a copy of the original certificate would have to be made with the office of the Registrar for the State of Hawaii, Alvin Onaka. I called Dr. Onaka's office and his secretary said that they only supply the computer generated birth certificates and have done so since 2001. She was not aware of any request for a "long form" birth certificate that had been fulfilled. The person I talked to in the DoVS said they would never issue a document without a date stamp.

Now if Danae can provide a letter or some concrete proof that the lady in Dr. Onaka's office was mistaken and she actually received a recent copy of the original birth certificate, with a date stamp, I will issue an apology. Until then I maintain that Danae is lying.

If you trying to order certified copies, you will only get the COLB. Perhaps Danae needs to go the Hawaii herself and see the documents for herself. According to Hawaii Law, Danae has the right and power to inspect any and all records pertaining to her birth which would include the long-form BC. If Hawai denies her, they are breaking the law. If Hawaii has Danae's long-form BC in some vault and assuming Danae is entitled under the statute, then Danae has the right to see the long-form BC. Any of these comments from Hawaii officials are clearly lies as they covering for Obama. The long-form BC is available. Hawaii law is quite clear on that. The only way you would not see the long-form BC would be if is was lost or destroyed. If it exists, you can see it.

I'm sure you are not the only one who has called RC. I don't trush the Hawaiin officials for a second. I believe they covering up for Obama and will do anything and everything to keep any announcement from them that you can get the long-form BC.

Ah, yes, the vast conspiracy.

What difference would that make? Even IF you were correct, he doesn't need one. There's no reason for them to cover up anything.

Let's see.... I can believe jy1977 and danae who is pulling a fast one at FREEP or the nice ladies I spoke with Hawaii. Can I trust those damned Republicans in the employ of Gov. Lingle (R)? Decisions, decisions....

If you believe that, then nothing will ever satisfy you. You would find something wrong with any additional information you would learn about Barack Obama. School Records? There'd be something you think was missing. "Long form"? You'd identify some deficiency. Passport application? You'd find some mark or tick to point to and say 'mmmmm, hmmmmm'. Nothing would ever be enough now that you've settled on "it's a conspiracy". Barack Obama learned this from the shitstorm of foolishness he faced after he scanned his COLB and put it online for anyone to see. You can legally request the records of Obama's birth on Aug 4, 2036. How you choose to spend those 25 3/4 years is up to you.