The Question of Presidential Inability

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Addie
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Re: The Question of Presidential Inability

#126

Post by Addie » Thu Dec 07, 2017 8:44 pm

WaPo OpEd - Joe Scarborough: Trump’s mental meltdown


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Re: The Question of Presidential Inability

#127

Post by Addie » Fri Dec 08, 2017 7:22 am

NBC News OpEd - Bandy X. Lee
Is Donald Trump's mental health becoming dangerous? Medical experts weigh in. ...

Politics has nothing to do with medicine, which is why a liberal health professional would not ignore a kidney stone in a patient just because he is Republican. Similarly, health professionals would not call liver cancer something else because it is afflicting the president. When signs of illness become apparent, it is natural for the physician to recommend an exam. But when the ailment goes so far as to affect an individuals ability to perform his duty, and in some cases risks harm to the public as a result, then the health professional has a duty to sound the alarm.

Human beings are an enviably adaptable species. However, when mechanisms go awry and reach a state of disorder, the capacity for variety and diversity diminishes and behavior becomes very predictable. This diminishing of flexibility is as consistent in the failing heart as it is in the cancer cell or the disordered human mind.

It is in this context that we should view Trump’s latest exploits. Special Counsel Robert Mueller's investigation is not just a matter of criminal indictments; as Trump feels increasingly walled in, his mental stability is likely to suffer and hence also public safety. Mental impairment and criminal-mindedness are not mutually exclusive; not only can they happen at the same time, when combined, these two characteristics become particularly dangerous. Trump has shown marked signs of impairment and psychological disability under ordinary circumstances, hardly able to cope with basic criticism or unflattering news. Presumably, additional stressors will make his condition worse. So far the signs have been almost too predictable.

It does not take a mental health professional to see that a person of Trump's impairments, in the office of the presidency, is a danger to us all. What mental health experts can offer is affirmation that these signs are real, that they may be worse than the public suspects, and that the patterns indicate the need for an urgent evaluation (simply trying to “contain” him or asking him to “get over” them will not work).

Simply put, Trump has already exceeded our usual threshold for evaluation. Just some of the signs that have raised red flags include: verbal aggressiveness, boasting about sexual assaults, inciting violence in others, an attraction to violence and powerful weapons and the taunting of hostile nations with nuclear power. Specific traits that are highly associated with violence include: impulsivity, recklessness, paranoia, a loose grip on reality and poor understanding of consequences, a lack of empathy and belligerence toward others, rage reactions and a constant need to demonstrate power. Such traits interfere with the ability to think rationally, to take in needed information or advice, to weigh consequences and to make sound, logical decisions based on reality.


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Re: The Question of Presidential Inability

#128

Post by Addie » Fri Dec 29, 2017 4:55 pm

Esquire - Charlie Pierce: Trump’s New York Times Interview Is a Portrait of a Man in Cognitive Decline
Adding:
Vox - Ezra Klein: Incoherent, authoritarian, uninformed: Trump’s New York Times interview is a scary read


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Re: The Question of Presidential Inability

#129

Post by TexasFilly » Fri Dec 29, 2017 7:08 pm

Addie wrote:
Fri Dec 29, 2017 4:55 pm
Esquire - Charlie Pierce: Trump’s New York Times Interview Is a Portrait of a Man in Cognitive Decline
Brilliant! El caudillo de Mar+A+Lago! +1


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Re: The Question of Presidential Inability

#130

Post by AndyinPA » Fri Dec 29, 2017 8:45 pm

Both are good articles, but equally depressing.

I hear Thom Hartmann saying fairly often that he thinks 45's decline is just likely normal for his age. As someone who is in the same age range and knows a lot of people in the same age range (+ or - five years), I disagree. His actions are not normal and something is clearly wrong with him. What alarms me is that there are so many who do not, or will not, see it.



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Re: The Question of Presidential Inability

#131

Post by Gregg » Sat Dec 30, 2017 12:39 am

I used to worry it was a problem that some people that age or so failed to realize it was time to give up driving a car. And for some it clearly is, maybe not most but some. Now, I'm worried about 1 guy that age who fails to realize the danger of him having nuclear weapons.

Seriously, this is a man who daily shows us he ought not be trusted with a smart phone, who can literally end civilization with fewer keystrokes than an average tweet.


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Re: The Question of Presidential Inability

#132

Post by TexasFilly » Sat Dec 30, 2017 2:40 am

AndyinPA wrote:
Fri Dec 29, 2017 8:45 pm
Both are good articles, but equally depressing.

I hear Thom Hartmann saying fairly often that he thinks 45's decline is just likely normal for his age. As someone who is in the same age range and knows a lot of people in the same age range (+ or - five years), I disagree. His actions are not normal and something is clearly wrong with him. What alarms me is that there are so many who do not, or will not, see it.
Thom Hartman is often wrong. And there’s that whole RT thing.


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Re: The Question of Presidential Inability

#133

Post by Slim Cognito » Sat Dec 30, 2017 9:39 am

AndyinPA wrote:
Fri Dec 29, 2017 8:45 pm
Both are good articles, but equally depressing.

I hear Thom Hartmann saying fairly often that he thinks 45's decline is just likely normal for his age. As someone who is in the same age range and knows a lot of people in the same age range (+ or - five years), I disagree. His actions are not normal and something is clearly wrong with him. What alarms me is that there are so many who do not, or will not, see it.
My mother just turned 93. She's sharper than I am. She's gotten much feebler the past 2-3 years, and I wish she'd stop driving (she just goes around the corner for groceries) but she sounds nothing like Trump.


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Re: The Question of Presidential Inability

#134

Post by Volkonski » Sat Dec 30, 2017 9:44 am

Proportion of People With Alzheimer’s Disease in the United States by Age: (Alzheimer’s Association) 85+ years – 38%, 75-84 years, 44%, 65-74 years, 15%, <65 years, 4%
https://www.alzheimers.net/resources/al ... tatistics/


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Re: The Question of Presidential Inability

#135

Post by Slim Cognito » Sat Dec 30, 2017 9:53 am

Also, I'd like to suggest that those of us who are getting older and more forgetful are the first to point out we're older and more forgetful, even if we have to make a joke to save face. Not a psychiatrist but we've always heard that the people who think they're losing their mind are sane enough to realize something needs checked out. Crazy unstable people are the ones who think they're doing fine and everybody's out to get them.


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Re: The Question of Presidential Inability

#136

Post by AndyinPA » Sat Dec 30, 2017 1:55 pm

TexasFilly wrote:
Sat Dec 30, 2017 2:40 am
AndyinPA wrote:
Fri Dec 29, 2017 8:45 pm
Both are good articles, but equally depressing.

I hear Thom Hartmann saying fairly often that he thinks 45's decline is just likely normal for his age. As someone who is in the same age range and knows a lot of people in the same age range (+ or - five years), I disagree. His actions are not normal and something is clearly wrong with him. What alarms me is that there are so many who do not, or will not, see it.
Thom Hartman is often wrong. And there’s that whole RT thing.
The RT thing bothered me greatly, too. He has cut ties with them.



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Re: The Question of Presidential Inability

#137

Post by kate520 » Sat Dec 30, 2017 6:38 pm

TexasFilly wrote:
Sat Dec 30, 2017 2:40 am
AndyinPA wrote:
Fri Dec 29, 2017 8:45 pm
Both are good articles, but equally depressing.

I hear Thom Hartmann saying fairly often that he thinks 45's decline is just likely normal for his age. As someone who is in the same age range and knows a lot of people in the same age range (+ or - five years), I disagree. His actions are not normal and something is clearly wrong with him. What alarms me is that there are so many who do not, or will not, see it.
Thom Hartman is often wrong. And there’s that whole RT thing.
:yeah:

I was a Hartmann fan for a number of years, but ever since RT...I just don’t know anymore.


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Re: The Question of Presidential Inability

#138

Post by pipistrelle » Sun Dec 31, 2017 8:15 am

RT?



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Re: The Question of Presidential Inability

#139

Post by Estiveo » Sun Dec 31, 2017 8:24 am

pipistrelle wrote:
Sun Dec 31, 2017 8:15 am
RT?
Russia Today


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Re: The Question of Presidential Inability

#140

Post by bob » Thu Jan 04, 2018 12:42 am

The Hill (sooo): Lawmakers briefed by Yale psychiatrist on Trump's mental health: report:
More than a dozen lawmakers last month met with a Yale University psychiatry professor for two days to discuss President Trump’s fitness for office, Politico reported Wednesday.

Dr. Bandy X. Lee reportedly met with the group of lawmakers on Dec. 5 and Dec. 6 and warned them the president is “going to unravel.” All of the lawmakers in attendance were Democrats, except for one Republican senator.

* * *

Trump is scheduled for his first physical exam as president on Jan. 12. His military physician will make the results public.


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Re: The Question of Presidential Inability

#141

Post by Addie » Thu Jan 04, 2018 8:37 am

Further to Bob's post.
Politico: Washington's growing obsession: The 25th Amendment

Lawmakers concerned about Trump's mental health invited a Yale psychiatry professor to brief them in December.


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Re: The Question of Presidential Inability

#142

Post by pipistrelle » Thu Jan 04, 2018 8:48 am

Aside from getting his PAC going (seems odd if he's not running in 2020), where is VP Pence? While The Don tweets and Bannon spews, VP Pence seems unnaturally quiet. Unless I've missed something.



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Re: The Question of Presidential Inability

#143

Post by RTH10260 » Thu Jan 04, 2018 8:57 am

pipistrelle wrote:
Thu Jan 04, 2018 8:48 am
Aside from getting his PAC going (seems odd if he's not running in 2020), where is VP Pence? While The Don tweets and Bannon spews, VP Pence seems unnaturally quiet. Unless I've missed something.
IMHO Pence may want to stick around for a second term IFF Teh Donald does not vaporize. So he doesn't intend to declare a challenge too early with his own candidacy.



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Re: The Question of Presidential Inability

#144

Post by Kendra » Thu Jan 04, 2018 2:30 pm

http://nymag.com/daily/intelligencer/20 ... ws-it.html
The President Is Mentally Unwell — and Everyone Around Him Knows It



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Re: The Question of Presidential Inability

#145

Post by bob » Thu Jan 04, 2018 2:35 pm

"For the record," if the vice president completes a presidential term with less than two years remaining on it, the vice president could still serve two more terms as president.

In other words, Pence has an incentive to keep his powder dry until January 21, 2019.


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Re: The Question of Presidential Inability

#146

Post by AndyinPA » Thu Jan 04, 2018 2:54 pm

Kendra wrote:
Thu Jan 04, 2018 2:30 pm
http://nymag.com/daily/intelligencer/20 ... ws-it.html
The President Is Mentally Unwell — and Everyone Around Him Knows It
That was pretty scary. I don't see any good way of getting rid of him. He's nuts, and no one around him cares enough to do anything to about it. They are more interested in their own skins than the country.

I've seen a parent in mental decline and it's awful to watch, even at an advanced age of past 90. He's much younger and there's no one around him who can or will do anything.



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Re: The Question of Presidential Inability

#147

Post by noblepa » Thu Jan 04, 2018 2:57 pm

This morning, I was listening to the local NPR station as I drove to work. They were doing a local story about treating Alzheimer's and dementia.

One of the physicians said that, often, an older patient will come to him and say that he or she is beginning to get forgetful, and asking if they have a problem.

Other times, a patient is brought in by a family member who has noticed odd behavior. The patient insists that there's nothing wrong and he/she is a fit as ever.

Guess which one the physician worries about most? Right. The second one.

That is not meant to mean that everyone who denies a problem really HAS a problem, but that the ones who are still lucid enough to suspect a problem are more likely just noticing normal aging.



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Re: The Question of Presidential Inability

#148

Post by Kendra » Thu Jan 04, 2018 3:11 pm

AndyinPA wrote:
Thu Jan 04, 2018 2:54 pm
Kendra wrote:
Thu Jan 04, 2018 2:30 pm
http://nymag.com/daily/intelligencer/20 ... ws-it.html
The President Is Mentally Unwell — and Everyone Around Him Knows It
That was pretty scary. I don't see any good way of getting rid of him. He's nuts, and no one around him cares enough to do anything to about it. They are more interested in their own skins than the country.

I've seen a parent in mental decline and it's awful to watch, even at an advanced age of past 90. He's much younger and there's no one around him who can or will do anything.
I wonder how his soon to happen check up is going to go, or if *something* happens that it gets cancelled and never rescheduled.



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Re: The Question of Presidential Inability

#149

Post by AndyinPA » Thu Jan 04, 2018 3:19 pm

Kendra wrote:
Thu Jan 04, 2018 3:11 pm
AndyinPA wrote:
Thu Jan 04, 2018 2:54 pm
That was pretty scary. I don't see any good way of getting rid of him. He's nuts, and no one around him cares enough to do anything to about it. They are more interested in their own skins than the country.

I've seen a parent in mental decline and it's awful to watch, even at an advanced age of past 90. He's much younger and there's no one around him who can or will do anything.
I wonder how his soon to happen check up is going to go, or if *something* happens that it gets cancelled and never rescheduled.
I read somewhere that it was January 12, which is next week on Friday, but I also saw somewhere where it said February or March. I have no idea if or when it will really happen or if we'll ever know the results. Maybe they could find something wrong and he will have to resign? That's wishful thinking on a really high (low?) level and that would leave us with Pence, not a comforting thought.

:cry:



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Re: The Question of Presidential Inability

#150

Post by Skip Intro » Thu Jan 04, 2018 4:38 pm

Kendra wrote:
Thu Jan 04, 2018 3:11 pm
AndyinPA wrote:
Thu Jan 04, 2018 2:54 pm
That was pretty scary. I don't see any good way of getting rid of him. He's nuts, and no one around him cares enough to do anything to about it. They are more interested in their own skins than the country.

I've seen a parent in mental decline and it's awful to watch, even at an advanced age of past 90. He's much younger and there's no one around him who can or will do anything.
I wonder how his soon to happen check up is going to go, or if *something* happens that it gets cancelled and never rescheduled.
What? You think Trump will reveal the real results to us?

Dream on.


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