The Question of Presidential Inability

User avatar
Sam the Centipede
Posts: 4994
Joined: Thu Aug 30, 2012 3:25 pm

Re: The Question of Presidential Inability

#101

Post by Sam the Centipede » Mon Jul 03, 2017 9:32 am

Addie wrote:New York Times Op-Ed
Charles M. Blow: The Hijacked American Presidency :snippity:
Yabbut the presidency wasn't hijacked. Trump won the vote. He won under the rules of the game, and the fact that he didn't win the popular vote isn't relevant and wasn't a novelty. Even if there was external interference in the campaigning, there haven't been any serious suggestions that the actual votes cast were incorrectly tallied in Trump's favor, are there? (I assume Trump isn't trying to force through a check of voters to reduce his tally!)

And Mr. Blow in his little rant shuts his eyes to the painful fact that tens of millions of Americans supported Trump, many more tens of millions weren't bothered enough to vote against him, and many tens of millions continue to support Trump and his ridiculous, offensive and destructive behavior.

Trump is what America voted for. He's an abomination, but he is the legitimately elected president. He's what America voted for and he is behaving exactly as badly as anybody who knew him and his past vindictive, selfish and abusive behavior would expect. The shame is America's, the offense is America's.



User avatar
kate520
Posts: 13544
Joined: Mon Oct 26, 2009 3:02 pm

Re: The Question of Presidential Inability

#102

Post by kate520 » Mon Jul 03, 2017 9:51 am

I beg to differ a bit, SamIAm. A majority of the low-information voters who went for Trump had no flicking idea he would break bad and toss everything. They thought he was campaign-lying, 'like they all do'. All they knew was what they heard whispered over and over: ' Washington bad. My guy good, yours a crook'. No inclination to figure out what's true, so they voted for the dumpy guy, shrug, what's the difference.

Drain the Swamp sounds good, except... what happens when you drain a swamp? You get mud. And who likes mud? Pigs.


Patriotism is the last refuge of a Scoundrel.
Samuel Johnson
April 7, 1775

User avatar
p0rtia
Posts: 1401
Joined: Sun Aug 26, 2012 11:44 am

Re: The Question of Presidential Inability

#103

Post by p0rtia » Mon Jul 03, 2017 10:03 am

I don't think that's what CB meant, Sam. I took him to mean that having found himself to be president (pick your reason for how), he has commandeered the powers of the office, platform, and power to rob and debase the country.

That said, had I been his editor, I would have objected to his rather artisitic use of hijack as too easy to misinterpret.


No matter where you go, there you are! :towel:

User avatar
Addie
Posts: 22274
Joined: Mon Jun 15, 2009 6:22 am
Location: downstairs

Re: The Question of Presidential Inability

#104

Post by Addie » Tue Jul 25, 2017 12:32 pm

Law Newz
Doctors Can Now Call Trump ‘Insane’ Without Breaking Ethics Rules, Group Says

In an unprecedented move, executives of American Psychoanalytic Association (APsaA) informed its 3,500 members through an email that they were permitted to defy what is known as the “Goldwater Rule” and can now comment on President Donald Trump’s mental state, STAT News reports.

The rule, which first appeared in the American Psychiatry Association’s Principles of Medical Ethics in 1973 and has been in effect since, declared it unethical for psychiatrists to give a professional psychiatric opinion on a public figure without a consensual in-person examination. The issue first emerged in 1964, when Fact Magazine published a piece where some polled psychiatrists declared that then-presidential candidate Barry Goldwater was mentally unfit to be president. Goldwater successfully sued for libel, and thus the “Goldwater Rule” was born.

The rule has been followed by psychiatrists and psychologists alike for decades. The APsaA’s July 6 email, however, marks a stark contrast to its previous position on examining public figures, which was sent on the basis of the “belief in the value of psychoanalytic knowledge in explaining human behavior,” past association president Dr. Prudence Gourguechon told STAT.

“We don’t want to prohibit our members from using their knowledge responsibly.” Dr. Gourguechon said that this responsibility has become more pressing today, “since Trump’s behavior is so different from anything we’ve seen before” in a president. This means that the APsaA’s psychiatrists now have the ability to declare the president “insane”, “paranoid”, or “schizophrenic” without being bound by the ethics rule.


¡Qué vergüenza!

User avatar
AndyinPA
Posts: 968
Joined: Wed Apr 05, 2017 1:00 pm
Location: Pittsburgh PA

Re: The Question of Presidential Inability

#105

Post by AndyinPA » Tue Jul 25, 2017 3:24 pm

I read Bush on the Couch when it came out. I probably have my copy somewhere. I was a little hesitant about the idea of the author (a psychiatrist) writing the book, diagnosing someone basically unseen by him. But early on in the book it's explained that this is a fairly established science that the CIA has used for decades to profile/diagnose other heads of state to give them insight into what they might do in a given situation. There was a lot of information out there for him to use to "diagnose" Bush. There's a lot more there on 45.

I heard the author, Justin Frank, say on The Thom Hartmann program a few months ago that he really thought his safety would be at risk if he wrote one on 45, although he had also written one on Obama.



User avatar
Addie
Posts: 22274
Joined: Mon Jun 15, 2009 6:22 am
Location: downstairs

Re: The Question of Presidential Inability

#106

Post by Addie » Wed Aug 09, 2017 5:18 pm

The Hill
Ex-GOP senator: Trump is 'sick of mind,' should be removed from office

Former GOP Sen. Gordon Humphrey (N.H.), a longtime critic of President Trump, said on Wednesday the commander in chief is "sick of mind" and urged New Hampshire's lawmakers to support calls to remove him from office.

In a letter sent to Rep. Ann McLane Kuster (D-N.H.) first reported by local news station WMUR, Humphrey accuses Trump of making a bad situation worse with his recent promise that North Korea would face "fire and fury" if it continued to threaten the U.S.

"President Trump's threat to rain down 'fire and fury' on North Korea is like pouring gasoline on a fire," Humphrey wrote. "It's crazy."

Humphrey asks Kuster to support a bill in the House that would establish a test to determine if the president is mentally fit for office.

"Donald Trump is seriously sick. He is dangerous," Humphrey said in the letter. "As a citizen, former U.S. Senator, and twelve-year member of the Armed Services Committee, I urge you to act [at] once.


¡Qué vergüenza!

User avatar
Addie
Posts: 22274
Joined: Mon Jun 15, 2009 6:22 am
Location: downstairs

Re: The Question of Presidential Inability

#107

Post by Addie » Sat Sep 09, 2017 10:34 am

VICE: Trump's Brain and the 25th Amendment

Eight distinguished experts gathered to discuss POTUS's mental situation.


¡Qué vergüenza!

User avatar
Addie
Posts: 22274
Joined: Mon Jun 15, 2009 6:22 am
Location: downstairs

Re: The Question of Presidential Inability

#108

Post by Addie » Wed Sep 27, 2017 11:14 am

Newsweek
'The Most Dangerous Man in the World’: Trump Is Violent, Immature and Insecure, Psych Experts Say

A Persistent Loss of Reality

Because Donald Trump has been a very public figure for many years, we are in an excellent position to know his behaviors—his speech and actions—which are precisely the basis for making an assessment of his dangerousness, whether we assess him using the American Psychiatric Association’s Diagnostic and Statistical Manual of Mental Disorders criteria for antisocial personality disorder, as below, or whether we apply our knowledge of malignant narcissism, both of which include the signs and symptoms of sociopathy. Let us consider these in turn.

Lack of Empathy for Others; Lack of Remorse; Lying and Cheating

Trump’s mocking the disability of a handicapped reporter, unconcern for the safety of protesters at a rally (“Get rid of them!”), sexually assaulting women, threatening physical harm to his opponent in the election (alluding to gun owners eliminating her), repeatedly verbally attacking a family who lost their son fighting for the country, degrading people who criticize him (calling them insulting names, as he did in both the Republican primaries and the general election), a history of cheating people he’s hired by not paying them what he owes, and targeting and terrifying minority groups all provide overwhelming evidence of profound sociopathic traits.

Loss of Reality

Trump’s insistence on the truth of matters proved to be untrue (“alternative facts”) is well known, even when such denial is not in his interest. He has falsely claimed that President Barack Obama is not an American and that he wiretapped Trump’s building, that his loss in the popular vote of the general election was caused by illegal aliens, that he had the largest inauguration crowd in history and so on. Together, these show a persistent loss of reality.

Rage Reactions and Impulsivity

Trump’s rages have been reported on multiple occasions, leading to sudden decisions and actions. He fired and subsequently threatened the director of the FBI after hearing him testify in unwanted ways before Congress; launched more than 50 missiles within 72 hours of seeing a disturbing image on the news, reversing his stated Middle East policy; precipitously violated diplomatic norms, creating international tensions (as with reports of threatening to invade Mexico, hanging up on the prime minister of Australia, antagonizing Germany, France, Greece and others); and issued illegal executive orders, apparently without vetting them with knowledgeable attorneys.


¡Qué vergüenza!

User avatar
Fortinbras
Posts: 2202
Joined: Sun Jan 18, 2015 10:08 am

Re: The Question of Presidential Inability

#109

Post by Fortinbras » Wed Sep 27, 2017 11:28 am

I am starting to think that, while Trump does not fit the proper terms of the 25th Amendment, to save the country everybody's gonna sorta bend the meaning the words so that he does and we can get rid of him.



User avatar
kate520
Posts: 13544
Joined: Mon Oct 26, 2009 3:02 pm

Re: The Question of Presidential Inability

#110

Post by kate520 » Wed Sep 27, 2017 11:48 am

Oh, Lordy, I hope no one lets him see this!! No telling what he’ll do in retaliation.


Patriotism is the last refuge of a Scoundrel.
Samuel Johnson
April 7, 1775

User avatar
kate520
Posts: 13544
Joined: Mon Oct 26, 2009 3:02 pm

Re: The Question of Presidential Inability

#111

Post by kate520 » Wed Sep 27, 2017 11:50 am

Forti, I’ve been there for months. I’m getting discouraged that anyone will have the balls to do something. We will sit and twiddle and dither, discuss, rehash, agonize, like the good people we are - but wait, we can’t do this, the Constitution says so - until it’s too late.


Patriotism is the last refuge of a Scoundrel.
Samuel Johnson
April 7, 1775

User avatar
RVInit
Posts: 4883
Joined: Sat Mar 05, 2016 4:31 pm

Re: The Question of Presidential Inability

#112

Post by RVInit » Wed Sep 27, 2017 12:32 pm

I'm afraid so, too. I believe we may very well have eight years of this maniac in the White House. There are very few of his voters that are sorry they voted for him. I saw on CNN a video of voters who were "sorry" about voting for him. Yeah, right. One man said he was sorry after he realized that Trump was filling his Cabinet with completely incompetent people. But the others were sorry only because Trump was NOT delivering on the worst and most hateful promises. I'm tired of being manipulated by these so call polls and stories that showing he is losing support. He is NOT losing support. The only "loss of support" I've seen are people that are disappointed that he is failing to deliver on his most vile promises. But, I haven't seen one damn thing that shows he's any worse off today than he was on the day he was elected in terms of people who would vote for him again. The so-called "sorry" voters are only sorry because he hasn't succeeded in destroying this country as much as he promised he would and they will vote for him again because nobody else will offer as repulsive an option as the shitgibbon.


"I know that human being and fish can coexist peacefully"
--- George W Bush

Dan1100
Posts: 1498
Joined: Sat Oct 18, 2014 3:41 pm

Re: The Question of Presidential Inability

#113

Post by Dan1100 » Wed Sep 27, 2017 4:09 pm

kate520 wrote:
Wed Sep 27, 2017 11:50 am
Forti, I’ve been there for months. I’m getting discouraged that anyone will have the balls to do something. We will sit and twiddle and dither, discuss, rehash, agonize, like the good people we are - but wait, we can’t do this, the Constitution says so - until it’s too late.
In order for the 25th amendment to come into play, his own cabinet needs to turn on him. That is not going to happen unless Trump tries to do something truly catastrophic, like nuke North Korea, Venezuela or Scotland level catastrophic.

More than likely, Trump will serve out his full term. Not good news, but it is what it is. If he does get thrown out early it will be from something Mueller finds combined with the Democrats taking back the House of Representatives.


"Let's say you're on trial for armed robbery. You say to the judge, 'I forgot armed robbery was illegal.' "

-Steve Martin

User avatar
Sam the Centipede
Posts: 4994
Joined: Thu Aug 30, 2012 3:25 pm

Re: The Question of Presidential Inability

#114

Post by Sam the Centipede » Thu Sep 28, 2017 3:06 am

RVInit wrote:
Wed Sep 27, 2017 12:32 pm
But the others were sorry only because Trump was NOT delivering on the worst and most hateful promises. I'm tired of being manipulated by these so call polls and stories that showing he is losing support. He is NOT losing support. The only "loss of support" I've seen are people that are disappointed that he is failing to deliver on his most vile promises.
Yup. His hard racist core of deplorables is not guided by compassion or logic.

Come re-election1 time, his message can be "hey, we did great, but they2 blocked us from doing tremendous things, bigly things, so vote for me and my pals and we'll do even greater!" And his asswipe voters will buy it.

1 but I hope the Shitgibbon, then four years older, will prefer to return to his simple life of fake-gold-plated, golf-filled exploitation

2 who "they" are can be left to the individual voters' favorite modes of hatred



User avatar
Foggy
Posts: 24766
Joined: Tue Jan 20, 2009 12:00 pm
Location: Fogbow HQ (Rawly NC)
Occupation: Dick Tater

Re: The Question of Presidential Inability

#115

Post by Foggy » Thu Sep 28, 2017 8:05 am

The simple truth is, he's everything you should teach your children not to be. That pretty much sums it all up for me. :blink:



User avatar
TollandRCR
Posts: 19026
Joined: Sun Mar 22, 2009 11:17 pm

Re: The Question of Presidential Inability

#116

Post by TollandRCR » Thu Sep 28, 2017 9:36 am

Foggy is so right. I think the initial teaching in economic explotayion was delivered by Fred Trump (and perhaps the racist teaching), but his master classes were with Roy Cohn. Who better to introduce a young Queens ddveloper to the Mafia?


“The truth is, we know so little about life, we don’t really know what the good news is and what the bad news is.” Kurt Vonnegut

User avatar
TollandRCR
Posts: 19026
Joined: Sun Mar 22, 2009 11:17 pm

Re: The Question of Presidential Inability

#117

Post by TollandRCR » Thu Sep 28, 2017 10:39 am

After the nomination I was convinced that our democracy’s only hope lies in early impeachment, a New York State criminal conviction, or some application of the 25th Amendment. Now I am less sure. Trump has accomplished nothing. We should seek to ensure that.

Trump seems unusually subject to criticism. The Jones Act waiver the most recent evidence. He is a classic bully: arrogant, ignorant, cowardly, and frightened. He will try to do harm, but we and the courts may be able to stop most everything. Even a bit of cooperation with Democrats may emerge on DACA.

My fear is of his successor. I know he is worth a full pence but what does pence purchase today? A small candy? He is a Christian Dominionist. His first authority is the Bible. He glides through with a calm smile on his face, ignoring anybody who might be struggling to discern right from wrong.

Pence will add another Repiblican base: Christian evangelists. trump has had them but not as revolutiaries. Pence might.


“The truth is, we know so little about life, we don’t really know what the good news is and what the bad news is.” Kurt Vonnegut

User avatar
Addie
Posts: 22274
Joined: Mon Jun 15, 2009 6:22 am
Location: downstairs

Re: The Question of Presidential Inability

#118

Post by Addie » Tue Oct 10, 2017 1:52 pm

WaPo - Editorial Board
What to do with an unfit president ...

One avenue open to Congress would be to remove the president from office. If indeed Mr. Trump is so reckless that he could set the nation “on the path to World War III,” as Mr. Corker said Sunday in an interview with the New York Times, this possibility can’t be dismissed. “He concerns me,” said Mr. Corker, who serves as chairman of the Senate Foreign Relations Committee. “He would have to concern anyone who cares about our nation.”

But Congress is not ready to consider such an option — nor, in our view, should it be. Impeachment is an extreme measure that would roil the nation and should be embarked upon only with clear justification. So we repeat: What is the right response for a congressional majority that understands its president is unfit?

It seems to us the answer falls into two baskets. First, Congress should seize the initiative on issues where it knows Mr. Trump is wrong. We’ve seen encouraging signs of this already: Congress refused to repeal Obamacare, albeit by the slimmest of margins; imposed sweeping sanctions on Russia; and has explored how to protect the independence of the special counsel. It could do far more. House Speaker Paul D. Ryan (R-Wis.) and Senate Majority Leader Mitch McConnell (R-Ky.) must know it makes no sense to torpedo successful trade pacts with reliable U.S. allies such as Canada, Mexico and South Korea. They could, at a minimum, hold hearings to make that case. Surely congressional leaders understand the United States would weaken itself if it sharply reduced Bush-era programs to counter AIDS, polio and other diseases in Africa. Right now Congress could act to save the nearly 700,000 young “dreamers” from the deportation that would undeservedly ruin their lives. It could hold hearings on the rise of white-supremacist organizations.

Second, congressional leaders can offer a contrast to what Mr. Corker described as the “adult day care center” at the White House simply by presiding over their branch with institutional dignity and respect for tradition. This would include letting Democrats have a say in the debate, in implicit contrast to the president’s contempt for those who disagree with him. It would include legislating based on facts and evidence, including the best available guidance from the Congressional Budget Office. Ideally, it would demonstrate that governance based on ideals tempered by compromise, rather than showmanship and cynicism, can produce results.


¡Qué vergüenza!

User avatar
RVInit
Posts: 4883
Joined: Sat Mar 05, 2016 4:31 pm

Re: The Question of Presidential Inability

#119

Post by RVInit » Tue Oct 10, 2017 2:43 pm

I read the WaPo editorial in the comment above. This would be valid except I think they are forgetting he's talking about Mitch McConnell and Paul Ryan. Not in a million years would these two douche bags do any such thing as wished for in this editorial.


"I know that human being and fish can coexist peacefully"
--- George W Bush

User avatar
Foggy
Posts: 24766
Joined: Tue Jan 20, 2009 12:00 pm
Location: Fogbow HQ (Rawly NC)
Occupation: Dick Tater

Re: The Question of Presidential Inability

#120

Post by Foggy » Tue Oct 10, 2017 4:27 pm

Oh, sure. The Republicans in Congress could start acting like grownups.

HAHAHAHAHA! :rotflmao:



User avatar
Flatpointhigh
Posts: 7369
Joined: Fri Dec 09, 2011 1:05 pm
Location: Hotel California, PH23
Occupation: Voice Actor, Podcaster, I hold a Ph.D in Procrastination.
Contact:

Re: The Question of Presidential Inability

#121

Post by Flatpointhigh » Sun Oct 15, 2017 7:31 pm

TollandRCR wrote:
Thu Sep 28, 2017 9:36 am
Foggy is so right. I think the initial teaching in economic explotayion was delivered by Fred Trump (and perhaps the racist teaching), but his master classes were with Roy Cohn. Who better to introduce a young Queens ddveloper to the Mafia?
Not to mention learning how to manipulate language from Tony Robbins



"It is wrong to say God made rich and poor; He only made male and female, and He gave them the Earth as their inheritance."- Thomas Paine, Forward to Agrarian Justice
Cancer broke me

User avatar
Addie
Posts: 22274
Joined: Mon Jun 15, 2009 6:22 am
Location: downstairs

Re: The Question of Presidential Inability

#122

Post by Addie » Fri Oct 20, 2017 11:13 am

TAP - Peter Dreier
Americans Agree That Trump Is a Liar. Do They Realize He Is also a Sociopath? ...

With the Wilson story, reporters and editors reverted to their old ways, as they did during last year’s presidential campaign, of simply serving as Trump’s transcribers. But, by now the media has had enough experience with Trump to know that his Twitter tantrums are filled with lies and half-truths. Since Trump claimed he had “proof,” but offered none, why did the news media feel obliged to give him a free pass?

Trump’s false criticism of Obama is yet another illustration of his extreme narcissism and his willingness to say anything to discredit his predecessor. But his grotesquely insensitive phone call to Mrs. Johnson reveals something even more disturbing about Trump: his complete lack of empathy for others’ suffering. That trait is a component of megalomania: everything is about him.

Just as journalists are now willing to describe Trump as a liar, it is time for them to cross another threshold and observe that Trump is mentally unstable or perhaps even sociopathic—and not simply in editorials or op-ed columns, but also in news stories and headlines.

They should do so without having to attribute the description to mental health professionals or Trump’s critics, without putting the word sociopath in quotes, and without any of the formulaic “he said/she said” constraints that require the phony balancing of different sides. In short, the news media must acknowledge as a fact—not opinion— that Donald Trump is mentally unstable.


¡Qué vergüenza!

Dan1100
Posts: 1498
Joined: Sat Oct 18, 2014 3:41 pm

Re: The Question of Presidential Inability

#123

Post by Dan1100 » Fri Oct 20, 2017 3:29 pm

Addie wrote:
Fri Oct 20, 2017 11:13 am
TAP - Peter Dreier
Americans Agree That Trump Is a Liar. Do They Realize He Is also a Sociopath? ...

With the Wilson story, reporters and editors reverted to their old ways, as they did during last year’s presidential campaign, of simply serving as Trump’s transcribers. But, by now the media has had enough experience with Trump to know that his Twitter tantrums are filled with lies and half-truths. Since Trump claimed he had “proof,” but offered none, why did the news media feel obliged to give him a free pass?

Trump’s false criticism of Obama is yet another illustration of his extreme narcissism and his willingness to say anything to discredit his predecessor. But his grotesquely insensitive phone call to Mrs. Johnson reveals something even more disturbing about Trump: his complete lack of empathy for others’ suffering. That trait is a component of megalomania: everything is about him.

Just as journalists are now willing to describe Trump as a liar, it is time for them to cross another threshold and observe that Trump is mentally unstable or perhaps even sociopathic—and not simply in editorials or op-ed columns, but also in news stories and headlines.

They should do so without having to attribute the description to mental health professionals or Trump’s critics, without putting the word sociopath in quotes, and without any of the formulaic “he said/she said” constraints that require the phony balancing of different sides. In short, the news media must acknowledge as a fact—not opinion— that Donald Trump is mentally unstable.
This is an article written by a person who slept through Abnormal Psych in college.

Sociopath is a pretty specific psychological diagnosis. It is one thing to say "Trump has a personality disorder," that's fairly obvious. To expect the press (or a shrink who hasn't examined him) to drill down on that and say he is a sociopath or a psychopath isn't really justified. Actually, if I was going to arm chair diagnose the TrumpenFührer based on my obsolete DSM-III knowledge of personality disorders, I'd go with Narcissistic Personality Disorder not Anti-Social Personality Disorder (i.e. sociopath).


"Let's say you're on trial for armed robbery. You say to the judge, 'I forgot armed robbery was illegal.' "

-Steve Martin

SLQ
Posts: 1621
Joined: Fri Jan 27, 2012 12:33 am

Re: The Question of Presidential Inability

#124

Post by SLQ » Fri Oct 20, 2017 3:46 pm

Foggy wrote:
Thu Sep 28, 2017 8:05 am
The simple truth is, he's everything you should teach your children not to be. That pretty much sums it all up for me. :blink:
Exactly. Some say he acts like a child. I say he acts like a poorly-raised child with no manners and no emotional sense. My children would never have been allowed to behave the way Trump does every single, damn day.



User avatar
Addie
Posts: 22274
Joined: Mon Jun 15, 2009 6:22 am
Location: downstairs

Re: The Question of Presidential Inability

#125

Post by Addie » Thu Nov 30, 2017 11:09 am

Daily Dot
Joe Scarborough: Sources close to Trump say he has ‘early stages of dementia’

Morning Joe host Joe Scarborough said on Thursday morning that people close to President Donald Trump told him during his campaign that Trump had “early stages of dementia.”

Scarborough and fellow host Mika Brzezinski addressed Trump on Thursday, saying that the president was “completely detached from reality.” They also urged Trump’s cabinet members to invoke the 25th Amendment, which allows for members of the administration to declare that the president is unfit for office, as tensions escalate between Trump and North Korea.

“We are facing a showdown with a nuclear power and you have somebody inside the White House that the New York Daily News says is mentally unfit, that people close to him say is mentally unfit, that people close to him during the campaign told me had early stages of dementia,” Scarborough said. ...

“When are we supposed to say this? After the first nuclear missile goes? Is that when it’s proper to bring this up in polite society?” Scarborough said, later adding: “Everybody around Donald Trump knows he’s not stable. Everybody.”


¡Qué vergüenza!

Post Reply

Return to “The Resistance”