Mueller's investigation of Trump

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Addie
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Re: Mueller's investigation of Trump

#2776

Post by Addie » Thu Dec 07, 2017 5:11 pm

Business Insider
Trump's long and winding history with Deutsche Bank could now be at the center of Robert Mueller's investigation

President Donald Trump's longtime relationship with Deutsche Bank is receiving renewed attention after reports that US investigators asked the bank for information on accounts held by the president, his family, and associates.

Trump's relationship with the massive German bank dates back roughly 20 years and has taken many twists and turns. Now, that relationship could find itself at the center of special counsel Robert Mueller's investigation into Russian interference in the 2016 presidential election.

The president's association with the German bank was born in the late 1990s, when major Wall Street firms would no longer loan Trump money following a series of disastrous ventures such as the Trump Shuttle and Trump's Atlantic City casinos.

The relationship began in 1998, when a group of real-estate bankers gave Trump a $125 million loan for renovations to his 40 Wall Street property. Deutsche Bank's real estate business had only been in operation for a year at that point, so the group, led by Mike Offit, was willing to take a risk on Trump, who was essentially blacklisted by the major Wall Street firms, Bloomberg reported.


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Re: Mueller's investigation of Trump

#2777

Post by Sterngard Friegen » Thu Dec 07, 2017 6:10 pm

New emails are leaking which, in another Administration, would be the bombshell that brings the President down.

Here, it's just another day at the office, but very incriminating.

From CNN.

PS: Don Jr. is a crook.



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Re: Mueller's investigation of Trump

#2778

Post by Addie » Fri Dec 08, 2017 7:54 am

WaPo OpEd - Philip Allen Lacovara
Yes, Trump could be indicted. The ‘Nixon tapes’ case proves it.

As special counsel Robert S. Mueller III racks up indictments and guilty pleas, and President Trump continues to dig himself further into a potential obstruction-of-justice charge, a question lingering since Mueller’s appointment comes front and center: May a sitting president be indicted for a federal crime?

I believe the answer is yes. When I was counsel to the Watergate special prosecutors, one of the issues that we had to address during the investigation of President Richard Nixon was whether the president was subject to indictment for his role in the Watergate coverup. As we later informed the Supreme Court in briefing the “Nixon tapes” case, we concluded that a president may be indicted while still in office. The Justice Department’s Office of Legal Counsel has taken a different position, first under Nixon and later under the administration of President Bill Clinton.

The principal argument in favor of presidential immunity is that the president, as chief executive, is the officer ultimately responsible to “take care that the laws be faithfully executed.” Therefore, for the government to pursue a criminal indictment of the president would be like the president prosecuting himself.

The argument is misguided. In England, it used to be said that “the king can do no wrong.” Indeed, when the Colonies declared independence, English prosecutions were in the name of the king — Rex v. Smith, for example. But the Founders rejected the tradition of royal supremacy. In writing the Constitution, they created a limited immunity for members of Congress protecting them against — but only against — prosecution for “speeches or debates” during congressional proceedings. By contrast, the Constitution is silent on any comparable immunity for the president.


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Re: Mueller's investigation of Trump

#2779

Post by Kendra » Fri Dec 08, 2017 8:47 am

http://abcnews.go.com/Politics/george-p ... d=51654250

Note: video autoplays at the link.
The Italian fiancee of George Papadopoulos offered the first public defense of the embattled former Trump campaign adviser, who in October was revealed as the first campaign adviser to plead guilty and cooperate with the special counsel’s Russia probe.

“George is very loyal to his country,” Simona Mangiante told ABC News chief anchor George Stephanopoulos in an exclusive interview. “He is already on the right side of history. I think he will make a big difference.”

:snippity:

Mangiante said Papadopoulos "set up meetings with leaders all over the world” for senior campaign officials. He was “constantly in touch with high-level officials in the campaign,” she added. That included direct communication with now-former senior Trump advisers Steve Bannon and Michael Flynn, Mangiante said, adding that she had seen correspondence supporting the assertion.

:snippity:

An Italian citizen, Mangiante herself was questioned by agents who wanted to know more about her. She said she was brought to an FBI office in Chicago and asked about her work for Mifsud, about her work as a political aide for the European Parliament in Brussels, and about how she came to meet Papadopoulos. At one point, they asked her if she spoke Russian, she said -- she told ABC News she does not. She received a subpoena in October to appear before a grand jury but did not have to attend, she said, because agents were satisfied by her interview.

“I must say that they have been fair,” she said. “And I was happy to give my contribution.” :snippity:



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Re: Mueller's investigation of Trump

#2780

Post by pipistrelle » Fri Dec 08, 2017 8:55 am

“George is very loyal to his country,” Simona Mangiante told ABC News chief anchor George Stephanopoulos in an exclusive interview. “He is already on the right side of history. I think he will make a big difference.”
The more these people make these kinds of assertions, the more I think the opposite must be true.



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Re: Mueller's investigation of Trump

#2781

Post by Addie » Sat Dec 09, 2017 12:36 pm

Foreign Policy - Colin Kahl
We're learning more about what the Trump team knew when — and the evidence is damning

The circumstantial evidence suggesting that the Trump campaign collaborated with the Kremlin to get now-President Donald Trump elected continues to mount.

But even if it turns out that there was no direct "collusion" to shape the 2016 election, what we have learned so far — including most recently from retired Lt. Gen. Michael Flynn's guilty plea this past week — is incredibly troubling.

The evidence is now irrefutable that Trump, his associates, and Republican leadership more broadly conspired to give Moscow a pass despite (or perhaps because of) Russia's attack on our democracy. ...

But even if the story goes no further, what we have already learned about Team Trump and the GOP leadership is shocking.

If nothing else proves true, the following facts are now undeniable: Trump's campaign and the Republican leadership in Congress were witting of Russian meddling to help Trump in the 2016 election in real time; they were all too happy to politically benefit from Putin's attack on our democracy; and they actively and repeatedly took steps to constrain efforts to make the Kremlin pay for it.

That alone is pretty damning.


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Re: Mueller's investigation of Trump

#2782

Post by Addie » Sat Dec 09, 2017 4:22 pm

Business Insider - Natasha Bertrand
'He was thrown to the wolves': Former FBI agents defend ousted Mueller investigator as Trump attacks 'rigged' DOJ

Attacks on special counsel Robert Mueller’s team of investigators escalated sharply last week, culminating in a partisan haranguing of the FBI director on Thursday over the perceived missteps of his predecessor.

Conservative and far-right media outlets, already skeptical of Mueller’s probe into President Donald Trump’s ties to Russia, grew louder in their calls for FBI Director Chris Wray to either clean house or for Mueller to resign. It came after news that two special counsel investigators at one point exhibited perceived political bias. ...

Former FBI agents who spoke to Business Insider this week characterized the outcry as "nonsense" aimed at discrediting an investigation that has dogged Trump and the GOP more broadly for over a year.

Frank Montoya, Jr., a former FBI special agent who served as the Director of the Office of the National Counterintelligence Executive, was blunt.

"There is a lot of anger in the FBI (the entire intelligence community, for that matter) over how this president will say nary a negative word about the Russians, but will insult us every chance he gets," he said.


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Re: Mueller's investigation of Trump

#2783

Post by Slim Cognito » Sat Dec 09, 2017 6:20 pm

Addie wrote:
Sat Dec 09, 2017 4:22 pm
Business Insider - Natasha Bertrand
'He was thrown to the wolves': Former FBI agents defend ousted Mueller investigator as Trump attacks 'rigged' DOJ

Attacks on special counsel Robert Mueller’s team of investigators escalated sharply last week, culminating in a partisan haranguing of the FBI director on Thursday over the perceived missteps of his predecessor.

Conservative and far-right media outlets, already skeptical of Mueller’s probe into President Donald Trump’s ties to Russia, grew louder in their calls for FBI Director Chris Wray to either clean house or for Mueller to resign. It came after news that two special counsel investigators at one point exhibited perceived political bias. ...

Former FBI agents who spoke to Business Insider this week characterized the outcry as "nonsense" aimed at discrediting an investigation that has dogged Trump and the GOP more broadly for over a year.

Frank Montoya, Jr., a former FBI special agent who served as the Director of the Office of the National Counterintelligence Executive, was blunt.

"There is a lot of anger in the FBI (the entire intelligence community, for that matter) over how this president will say nary a negative word about the Russians, but will insult us every chance he gets," he said.
I wonder if the NY FBI office, (previously known as Trumpland and Rudy Giuliani's leak source) have had second thoughts....

And speaking of Giuliani, he's been pretty quiet lately.



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Re: Mueller's investigation of Trump

#2784

Post by tek » Sat Dec 09, 2017 7:42 pm

Slim Cognito wrote:
Sat Dec 09, 2017 6:20 pm
And speaking of Giuliani, he's been pretty quiet lately.
:yeah:
strange, isn't it? the mouth that is never shut.. .


Fast talkin' guys with strange red eyes
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Insurance policies?

#2785

Post by Sterngard Friegen » Sat Dec 09, 2017 8:37 pm

If Mueller is fired will the investigations continue? I believe Mueller has sealed indictments against pretty much everyone in Trump's circle. And if he is fired the indictments will be unsealed. Which will lead to Trump's impeachment.

At this point Mueller should know everything. He's got Flynn. He's got thousands of communications, Trump's tax returns, thousands of intelligence intercepts.

The sealed indictments are like the damning information in the safety deposit box. Believe me.

Mueller needs to complete his investigation soon, but if he is prevented from doing so his assistants (who won't be fired when he is) will be able to unlock the doomsday box. Bigly.

Bye Trump!

:hang:



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Re: Mueller's investigation of Trump

#2786

Post by Maybenaut » Sat Dec 09, 2017 10:34 pm

I don’t doubt what you’re saying, but I’m just curious how you know that. How do you know that if Meuller is fired that the indictment gets unsealed? Who makes that decision?



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Re: Mueller's investigation of Trump

#2787

Post by Sterngard Friegen » Sun Dec 10, 2017 12:24 am

Maybenaut wrote:
Sat Dec 09, 2017 10:34 pm
I don’t doubt what you’re saying, but I’m just curious how you know that. How do you know that if Meuller is fired that the indictment gets unsealed? Who makes that decision?
There are numerous assistant special counsel. Drumpf would have to fire all of them (get somebody in DoJ to do it) and before that can happen the indictments will be made public. At least that's what I believe will happen. Mueller certainly isn't talking.



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Re: Mueller's investigation of Trump

#2788

Post by Foggy » Sun Dec 10, 2017 5:54 am

Dear Mr. Mueller:

Wednesday is my 65th birthday, and it's ... disconcerting. I would sincerely, sincerely, sincerely appreciate a birthday present from you, and it doesn't even have to have my name on it, if you know what I mean. Just a little something to cheer me up, por favor.

Thanks pal.

The Poor ol' Rooster :bighug:


Karma is a bitch." - Jomas Thefferson

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Re: Mueller's investigation of Trump

#2789

Post by Addie » Sun Dec 10, 2017 8:05 am

NPR
As Mueller's Russia Probe Forges Ahead, Potential Legal Endgames Begin to Take Shape ...

One potential charge might be conspiracy to violate the Computer Fraud and Abuse Act, says Barak Cohen, a partner and litigation lead at Perkins Coie in Washington, D.C. Mueller's team could reach for that if there is evidence that Trump associates worked with Russia on the hacking of the Democratic National Committee or the emails of Hillary Clinton's campaign chairman, John Podesta. ...

"I think the special counsel would like to be able to charge them as co-conspirators to the hack or accessories after the fact," Cohen said. "It's the most credible and well-established legal theory."

If Trump associates weren't directly involved in the hacks but, say, knew about them and kept them hidden, then they could be charged as accessories after that fact, Cohen said.

Another theory proffered by John Norris and Carolyn Kenney for the liberal Center for American Progress is that Mueller might try to use the Racketeer Influenced and Corrupt Organizations Act.

"More dominoes seem almost inevitable to fall given the special counsel's efforts to secure cooperating witnesses, and RICO statutes give him a powerful card to play if he wishes to do so," they wrote.

Or a more general conspiracy charge — to defraud the United States — could come into play, according to Eliason. Conspiracy of this sort means interfering with a lawful government function by deceit or dishonest means. In this case, prosecutors might try to prove the Trump camp had helped pervert the election. ...

"My guess is this is all going to center around money — Russian money," Moore said.


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Re: Mueller's investigation of Trump

#2790

Post by Addie » Sun Dec 10, 2017 8:08 am

Think Progress
Is Trump going to fire Mueller? 6 disturbing signs. – ThinkProgress

No one really knows what Donald Trump will do next — not even Donald Trump. But with Robert Mueller racking up indictments and 2017 drawing to a close, there are several indications that Trump is considering sacking the special counsel.

Firing Mueller would not be easy. Under current regulations, only Deputy Attorney General Rod Rosenstein, who appointed Mueller, could fire him. Even Rosenstein could only fire him “for misconduct, dereliction of duty, incapacity, conflict of interest, or for other good cause, including violation of Departmental policies.”

But a determined president could probably find a way to get rid of Mueller. He could fire Rosenstein, repeal the regulations that only allow Mueller to be fired for cause, or both.

In one sense, firing a special counsel that has already secured two guilty pleas from Trump campaign advisers and serious charges against two others is unthinkable. But there are numerous signs that Trump is at least considering it.


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Re: Mueller's investigation of Trump

#2791

Post by Sterngard Friegen » Sun Dec 10, 2017 10:02 am

RICO is designed to go after economic and commercial injury. It would be difficult to contort it into a means of going after corrupt politicians. I doubt Mueller will use it.



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Re: Mueller's investigation of Trump

#2792

Post by GhostOfSolomon » Sun Dec 10, 2017 1:56 pm

Sterngard Friegen wrote:
Sun Dec 10, 2017 10:02 am
RICO is designed to go after economic and commercial injury. It would be difficult to contort it into a means of going after corrupt politicians. I doubt Mueller will use it.
I agree but most believe there are underlying NY state money laundering crimes attached to all of this as well. RICO could definitely apply there if Trump is shown to be involved.


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Re: Mueller's investigation of Trump

#2793

Post by fierceredpanda » Sun Dec 10, 2017 2:20 pm

Sterngard Friegen wrote:
Sun Dec 10, 2017 10:02 am
RICO is designed to go after economic and commercial injury. It would be difficult to contort it into a means of going after corrupt politicians. I doubt Mueller will use it.
I think Trump's business entities could well be targeted as part of a RICO investigation, or one stemming from the NY state enterprise corruption laws. Someone who knew a lot about money laundering once observed to me that the two industries most susceptible to being utilized for washing money are real estate and gambling. If Trump's businesses are thoroughly entangled in racketeering activities, there certainly would be a nexus for a RICO prosecution.


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Re: Mueller's investigation of Trump

#2794

Post by Dan1100 » Sun Dec 10, 2017 2:29 pm

fierceredpanda wrote:
Sun Dec 10, 2017 2:20 pm
Sterngard Friegen wrote:
Sun Dec 10, 2017 10:02 am
RICO is designed to go after economic and commercial injury. It would be difficult to contort it into a means of going after corrupt politicians. I doubt Mueller will use it.
I think Trump's business entities could well be targeted as part of a RICO investigation, or one stemming from the NY state enterprise corruption laws. Someone who knew a lot about money laundering once observed to me that the two industries most susceptible to being utilized for washing money are real estate and gambling. If Trump's businesses are thoroughly entangled in racketeering activities, there certainly would be a nexus for a RICO prosecution.
Also, whatever immunity Trump may (or may not) have while he is president doesn't apply to his stuff. A RICO investigation that doesn't indict Trump could still seize all his stuff. Theoretically, kick his ass out of Trump Tower and take away his golf courses. That would make him sad.


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Re: Mueller's investigation of Trump

#2795

Post by Addie » Sun Dec 10, 2017 3:47 pm

Bloomberg OpEd - Al Hunt
The Trump-Russia Probe Is About to Get Uglier

Unpleasant facts are spilling out. Republicans don't want to know them. ...

The issue of whether a sitting president can be indicted is unsettled. Those who know Mueller believe that he's less likely to pursue a prosecution than to send Trump's case to Congress to consider impeachment.

Trump loyalists have already started fighting that battle, with bitter preemptive counterattacks issuing from top congressional Republicans like House Intelligence Committee Chairman Devin Nunes, Oversight Committee Chairman Trey Gowdy and even Senate Judiciary Committee chairman Charles Grassley. They've made it clear that they're more interested in discrediting Mueller than in learning about what happened between the Trump camp and Russia.

Trump, if caged, will lash out furiously. Maybe he'd try to fire Mueller and issue pardons for his family and friends. He'd rally his hardcore supporters, urging them to protest against the threat to him. Thus it's impossible to envision a peaceful resolution like the one that occurred in 1974, when Nixon was forced out to avoid impeachment.

"At the end of the day, Richard Nixon was found to have a sense of shame," notes Watergate prosecutor Richard Ben-Veniste. "It remains to be seen whether anything can shame Donald Trump."


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Re: Mueller's investigation of Trump

#2796

Post by Addie » Mon Dec 11, 2017 7:54 am

NBC5
Mueller Probing the 18 Days Up to Flynn's Firing: Sources

Special counsel Robert Mueller is trying to piece together what transpired inside the White House over a critical 18-day period that began when senior officials were told that national security adviser Michael Flynn was susceptible to blackmail by Russia, multiple people familiar with the matter told NBC News.

The questions about what happened between Jan. 26 and Flynn's firing on Feb. 13 appear to relate to possible obstruction of justice by President Donald Trump, say two people familiar with Mueller's investigation into Russia's election meddling and potential collusion with the Trump campaign.

Multiple sources say that during interviews, Mueller's investigators have asked witnesses, including White House counsel Don McGahn and others who have worked in the West Wing, to go through each day that Flynn remained as national security adviser and describe in detail what they knew was happening inside the White House as it related to Flynn.

Some of those interviewed by Mueller's team believe the goal is in part to determine if there was a deliberate effort by Trump or top officials in the West Wing to cover up the information about Flynn that Sally Yates, then the acting attorney general, conveyed to McGahn on Jan. 26. In addition to Flynn, McGahn is also expected to be critical to federal investigators trying to piece together a timeline of those 18 days.


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Re: Mueller's investigation of Trump

#2797

Post by Kendra » Mon Dec 11, 2017 8:07 am

Beat to the punchline by Addie. Just as well, one arm/hand is completely immobilized by napping cat. That article well worth reading to the end.



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Re: Mueller's investigation of Trump

#2798

Post by Addie » Mon Dec 11, 2017 8:25 am

FiveThirtyEight
Trump Will Have A Hard Time Stopping The Russia Investigation — Even If He Fires Mueller ...

Since the late 19th century, when a special prosecutor was used for the first time, public pressure alone has been sufficient to keep an investigation going, even when the president tried to intervene. Our analysis of the 30 investigations since 1875 shows that at first, special prosecutors were relatively rare and appointed only in response to very serious scandals. They were called on to examine diverse allegations involving government officials, all spurred by the perception that a conflict of interest would have kept ordinary prosecutors from conducting a fair investigation or might have driven someone powerful to intervene. In cases where the White House interfered anyway, public outcry saved the investigation.

It was only in the late 20th century that Congress decided that special prosecutors needed more protections from the executive branch and created the position of an independent counsel, which reported to a three-judge panel rather than the president or the attorney general. But the results of these enhanced protections for independence were so mixed that these legal safeguards were allowed to lapse after only 20 years.

“The system we have actually seems to work pretty well,” Josh Chafetz, a professor of law at Cornell Law School, said of the return to special prosecutors appointed by the attorney general. “In the few cases where a prosecutor has been fired, the blowback was so intense that a new one was appointed very quickly.”

In fact, the very first use of a special prosecutor demonstrates the limits of a president trying to stop an investigation. Ulysses S. Grant appointed John B. Henderson in 1875, just five years after the Department of Justice was founded, to look into what became known as the Whiskey Ring. This group of whiskey distillers, employees of the Treasury Department and Internal Revenue Service, and Grant’s friends and cronies were defrauding the government of millions of dollars in liquor tax revenues.


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Re: Mueller's investigation of Trump

#2799

Post by neeneko » Mon Dec 11, 2017 9:21 am

Dan1100 wrote:
Sun Dec 10, 2017 2:29 pm
Also, whatever immunity Trump may (or may not) have while he is president doesn't apply to his stuff. A RICO investigation that doesn't indict Trump could still seize all his stuff. Theoretically, kick his ass out of Trump Tower and take away his golf courses. That would make him sad.
Beyond making him sad, if his assets started getting seized while he is PotUS and theoretically the most powerful person in the country, that limitation would likely drive him crazy and result in doing something really outrageous. So far his corruption has mostly been talk, a bunch of wink and nods and reshuffling within his power to do so. Losing assets like that would likely poke him into doing something much more direct and illegal like using the military to arrest FBI people.



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Re: Mueller's investigation of Trump

#2800

Post by Chilidog » Mon Dec 11, 2017 9:31 am

Kendra wrote:
Mon Dec 11, 2017 8:07 am
... one arm/hand is completely immobilized by napping cat.
Too bad. We will have to cut your arm off.



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