Mueller's investigation of Trump

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Addie
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Re: Mueller's investigation of Trump

#2701

Post by Addie » Tue Dec 05, 2017 6:41 am

Reuters
Deutsche Bank receives subpoena from Mueller on Trump accounts: Source

Special Counsel Robert Mueller has asked Deutsche Bank to share data on accounts held by U.S. President Donald Trump and his family, a person close to the matter said on Tuesday.

Germany's largest bank received a subpoena from Mueller several weeks ago to provide information on certain money and credit transactions, the person added, confirming a report by German daily Handelsblatt published on Tuesday.

Deutsche Bank, which has loaned the Trump organization millions of dollars for real estate ventures, said it would not comment on any of its clients.

Deutsche Bank rejected demands in June by U.S. House Democrats to provide details of Trump's finances, citing privacy laws.

Mueller is investigating alleged Russian attempts to influence the 2016 U.S. presidential election and potential collusion by Trump aides.


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Addie
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Re: Mueller's investigation of Trump

#2702

Post by Addie » Tue Dec 05, 2017 7:04 am

New York Mag
19 Times President Trump May Have Obstructed Justice

One small upside to having a president embroiled in scandal: before all this is over, we’re probably going to learn a lot about some obscure sections of the Constitution.

On Monday President Trump’s attorneys unveiled a bold new legal strategy regarding Special Counsel Robert Mueller’s investigation of whether Trump obstructed justice, among other potential Russia-related crimes. In interviews with Axios and NBC News, Trump’s personal lawyer John Dowd claimed “the president cannot obstruct justice because he is the chief law enforcement officer under (the Constitution’s Article II) and has every right to express his view of any case.” ...

Many legal scholars still disagree with that interpretation, arguing that the president’s role as a law enforcement officer does not give him the right to shield himself and his associates from any legal accountability. In a 108-page analysis of the potential obstruction case against Trump, the Brookings Institution summarized the types of actions that could amount to presidential obstruction of justice ...

While a one particular action might not seem that significant, it could help prosecutors establish intent – an important consideration in obstruction cases. Norm Eisen, a former Obama administration ethics counsel who co-authored the Brookings paper, told the Post: “There’s a long line of cases holding that when a government official exercises an otherwise legal authority with corrupt intent, they can be prosecuted for obstruction. It flows from the notion that no person is above the law.”

While there’s still much we don’t know about Mueller’s probe, there’s also plenty in the public record that experts say could add up to an obstruction charge for President Trump. These range from the firing of FBI Director James Comey to Twitter attacks that are now mostly forgotten. Here’s a recap of some of the incidents that could help Mueller make his case.


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Re: Mueller's investigation of Trump

#2703

Post by Somerset » Tue Dec 05, 2017 7:28 am

Addie wrote:
Tue Dec 05, 2017 6:41 am
Reuters
Deutsche Bank receives subpoena from Mueller on Trump accounts: Source

Special Counsel Robert Mueller has asked Deutsche Bank to share data on accounts held by U.S. President Donald Trump and his family, a person close to the matter said on Tuesday.

Germany's largest bank received a subpoena from Mueller several weeks ago to provide information on certain money and credit transactions, the person added, confirming a report by German daily Handelsblatt published on Tuesday.

Deutsche Bank, which has loaned the Trump organization millions of dollars for real estate ventures, said it would not comment on any of its clients.

Deutsche Bank rejected demands in June by U.S. House Democrats to provide details of Trump's finances, citing privacy laws.

Mueller is investigating alleged Russian attempts to influence the 2016 U.S. presidential election and potential collusion by Trump aides.
That's going to seriously piss off the OSG :twisted:

To the international IAALs, what kind of banking treaty(s) do we have with most other developed countries? I know that I had to provide my US SSN when I recently opened a bank account in China, so there's at least some implication that they'll share my banking records with the US IRS. But do foreign banks usually honour a US subpoena?



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Re: Mueller's investigation of Trump

#2704

Post by Addie » Tue Dec 05, 2017 7:29 am

The Oregonian
Ron Wyden: 'Constitutional crisis' will unfold if Donald Trump meddles with Russia probe (video)

The ranking Democrat of the Senate Finance Committee said Monday that a "full-fledged constitutional crisis" will unfold if President Donald Trump tries to interfere with special counsel Robert Mueller's investigation into potential coordination between Trump campaign officials and Russia during the 2016 election.

"I think every member of Congress -- every Democrat, every Republican, House and Senate -- needs to say now that if there is any effort by the president to interfere with the work of Bob Mueller, there's going to be a real constitutional crisis in America," said Sen. Ron Wyden.

The Oregon Democrat said Mueller is "making a case that runs right up to the top of the Trump administration" and that he's "pleased" with the special counsel's work. So far, Mueller has secured indictments of Trump's former campaign manager and a business partner, as well as guilty pleas for lying to FBI agents by a campaign aide and Michael Flynn, the president's former national security adviser. ...

Wyden said Mueller and his team appear to be probing questionable financial arrangements of Trump associates, which he said is "the single most important key to unlock this inquiry." Paul Manafort, Trump's former campaign manager, has been charged with money laundering, among other charges. The charges are not related to Manafort's work for the Trump campaign.


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Suranis
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Re: Mueller's investigation of Trump

#2705

Post by Suranis » Tue Dec 05, 2017 7:51 am

Mikedunford wrote:
Mon Dec 04, 2017 5:36 pm
Full filing: https://www.courtlistener.com/docket/61 ... -manafort/

Manafort is weapons-grade stooopid.
Weapons grade arrogant is probably closer. In my opinion, He thinks he is so smart that he can never be caught doing anything, and he does this shit for the thrill of the possibility of getting caught.


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Re: Mueller's investigation of Trump

#2706

Post by Sugar Magnolia » Tue Dec 05, 2017 7:57 am

Somerset wrote:
Tue Dec 05, 2017 7:28 am
Addie wrote:
Tue Dec 05, 2017 6:41 am
Reuters
Deutsche Bank receives subpoena from Mueller on Trump accounts: Source

Special Counsel Robert Mueller has asked Deutsche Bank to share data on accounts held by U.S. President Donald Trump and his family, a person close to the matter said on Tuesday.

Germany's largest bank received a subpoena from Mueller several weeks ago to provide information on certain money and credit transactions, the person added, confirming a report by German daily Handelsblatt published on Tuesday.

Deutsche Bank, which has loaned the Trump organization millions of dollars for real estate ventures, said it would not comment on any of its clients.

Deutsche Bank rejected demands in June by U.S. House Democrats to provide details of Trump's finances, citing privacy laws.

Mueller is investigating alleged Russian attempts to influence the 2016 U.S. presidential election and potential collusion by Trump aides.
That's going to seriously piss off the OSG :twisted:

To the international IAALs, what kind of banking treaty(s) do we have with most other developed countries? I know that I had to provide my US SSN when I recently opened a bank account in China, so there's at least some implication that they'll share my banking records with the US IRS. But do foreign banks usually honour a US subpoena?
Does a demand differ from a subpoena? Can they legally refuse either/both?



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Re: Mueller's investigation of Trump

#2707

Post by RTH10260 » Tue Dec 05, 2017 7:58 am

Somerset wrote:
Tue Dec 05, 2017 7:28 am
Addie wrote:
Tue Dec 05, 2017 6:41 am
Reuters
Deutsche Bank receives subpoena from Mueller on Trump accounts: Source

:snippity: .
That's going to seriously piss off the OSG :twisted:

To the international IAALs, what kind of banking treaty(s) do we have with most other developed countries? I know that I had to provide my US SSN when I recently opened a bank account in China, so there's at least some implication that they'll share my banking records with the US IRS. But do foreign banks usually honour a US subpoena?
The US subsidiary of a foreign bank will honour a subpoena as they are considered a local entity, but only to the extent as it concerns their local US customers and local held accounts. For any accounts held elsewhere the DA will have to channel an international request for investigative assistance to the third party nations justice system. Generally the DA will need to provide sufficient information that s/he has a valid criminal investigation at hand. I assume that this means the Grand Jury has already handed out a indictment. And the request must usually be very specific on what information is required for what purpose. No fishing expeditions US style allowed. IANAL.



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Re: Mueller's investigation of Trump

#2708

Post by Addie » Tue Dec 05, 2017 8:09 am

Politico
Pence pleads ignorance as Russia probe deepens

The vice president has been absent for key moments involving senior administration figures, including former national security adviser Michael Flynn.

As the White House contends with questions about who knew about former national security adviser Michael Flynn lying to the FBI, people close to Vice President Mike Pence are trying to make clear that President Donald Trump’s No. 2 knew nothing at all.

He was at a homeless shelter in Indiana, clad in an apron and doling out hot meals, the day last December when Egypt submitted a U.N. resolution that drew Flynn and Trump’s son-in-law and adviser Jared Kushner into international back-channel dealing.

He was celebrating his son’s wedding a week later when President Barack Obama slapped sanctions on Russia over its election meddling, setting off a chain of events that would culminate with Flynn pleading guilty to lying to the FBI about his contacts with Russian officials.

Pence’s aides have maintained for months that their man was out of the loop, blissfully ignorant to contacts between the Trump campaign and various foreign actors, from the Russian ambassador to WikiLeaks.


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Re: Mueller's investigation of Trump

#2709

Post by pipistrelle » Tue Dec 05, 2017 8:12 am

Addie wrote:
Tue Dec 05, 2017 8:09 am
Politico
Pence pleads ignorance as Russia probe deepens
Pence’s aides have maintained for months that their man was out of the loop, blissfully ignorant to contacts between the Trump campaign and various foreign actors, from the Russian ambassador to WikiLeaks.
So basically their man is oblivious and unfit for office; is that what they're saying?



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Suranis
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Re: Mueller's investigation of Trump

#2710

Post by Suranis » Tue Dec 05, 2017 8:23 am

pipistrelle wrote:
Tue Dec 05, 2017 8:12 am
So basically their man is oblivious and unfit for office; is that what they're saying?
You have to admit, its the best legal strategy we have seen so far!

As for the Probe now officially following the money, SGOTUS should feel safe, as he does not have any. :blink:


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Addie
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Re: Mueller's investigation of Trump

#2711

Post by Addie » Tue Dec 05, 2017 10:43 am

Justice.gov: Special Counsel’s Office Statement of Expenditures; May 17, 2017 to September 30, 2017
Adding:
Associated Press: Special counsel Robert Mueller details $3.2 million in costs for early months of Trump-Russia investigation


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Re: Mueller's investigation of Trump

#2712

Post by Reality Check » Tue Dec 05, 2017 10:50 am

Addie wrote:
Tue Dec 05, 2017 10:43 am
Justice.gov: Special Counsel’s Office Statement of Expenditures; May 17, 2017 to September 30, 2017
Thanks Addie. $3.2 million doesn't seem bad to me. Trump and the Repukes will yell and gnash their teeth over it.


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Re: Mueller's investigation of Trump

#2713

Post by bob » Tue Dec 05, 2017 10:56 am

Sugar Magnolia wrote:
Tue Dec 05, 2017 7:57 am
Does a demand differ from a subpoena? Can they legally refuse either/both?
In this case, a demand carries no legal value. (Just ask Orly Taitz.) But ignoring the demand could have other, unrelated consequences.

A subpoena, however, is a legal obligation. There are legal methods to fight it. And legal methods to enforce it.


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Re: Mueller's investigation of Trump

#2714

Post by Sterngard Friegen » Tue Dec 05, 2017 11:28 am

Reality Check wrote:
Tue Dec 05, 2017 10:50 am
Addie wrote:
Tue Dec 05, 2017 10:43 am
Justice.gov: Special Counsel’s Office Statement of Expenditures; May 17, 2017 to September 30, 2017
Thanks Addie. $3.2 million doesn't seem bad to me. Trump and the Repukes will yell and gnash their teeth over it.
Seems cheap. It appears it also accounts for salaries of DOJ employees and FBI agents who have been assigned to the investigation.



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Re: Mueller's investigation of Trump

#2715

Post by Gregg » Tue Dec 05, 2017 11:32 am

Reality Check wrote:
Tue Dec 05, 2017 10:50 am
Addie wrote:
Tue Dec 05, 2017 10:43 am
Justice.gov: Special Counsel’s Office Statement of Expenditures; May 17, 2017 to September 30, 2017
Thanks Addie. $3.2 million doesn't seem bad to me. Trump and the Repukes will yell and gnash their teeth over it.

If they bitch too loud, remind them that its about what it costs for a long weekend at Mar-A-Lago.


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Re: Mueller's investigation of Trump

#2716

Post by TexasFilly » Tue Dec 05, 2017 11:48 am

Sterngard Friegen wrote:
Tue Dec 05, 2017 11:28 am
Reality Check wrote:
Tue Dec 05, 2017 10:50 am
Addie wrote:
Tue Dec 05, 2017 10:43 am
Thanks Addie. $3.2 million doesn't seem bad to me. Trump and the Repukes will yell and gnash their teeth over it.
Seems cheap. It appears it also accounts for salaries of DOJ employees and FBI agents who have been assigned to the investigation.
:like:


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Re: Mueller's investigation of Trump

#2717

Post by pipistrelle » Tue Dec 05, 2017 11:51 am

Very cheap for the value. This Mueller is pretty wily.



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Re: Mueller's investigation of Trump

#2718

Post by Addie » Tue Dec 05, 2017 12:56 pm

WaPo
Mueller investigation cost $6.7 million within first five months

Special counsel Robert S. Mueller III’s investigation of possible coordination between the Trump campaign and Russia to influence the 2016 election cost the government about $6.7 million in Mueller’s first four and a half months in office, according to a report released by the Justice Department on Tuesday.

The price tag is likely to rile Republicans who have been critical of Mueller’s team and wary of a lengthy and costly investigation, though independent counsels have in the past spent tens of millions of dollars on lengthy probes.

Mueller’s spending included $3.2 million in direct and reimbursed expenditures — including more than $1.7 million for personnel, $733,000 for equipment, $362,000 for rent and utilities, $223,000 for travel and $157,000 for contract services, such as technology services and transcripts, according to the report. That represents new money coming from an indefinite appropriation for independent counsels, which the Justice Department determined could be used to fund Mueller’s work.

Mueller’s probe also caused other Justice Department components to spend about $3.5 million on work attributable to the special counsel probe, according to the report. The report said that past special counsels did not report such expenditures, and the expenses would have been incurred “irrespective of the existence” of the special counsel’s office.


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Re: Mueller's investigation of Trump

#2719

Post by RVInit » Tue Dec 05, 2017 1:33 pm

:rotflmao:




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Sugar Magnolia
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Re: Mueller's investigation of Trump

#2720

Post by Sugar Magnolia » Tue Dec 05, 2017 2:09 pm

And one more question....has the bank actually turned the info over or have they just received the subpoena so far? The Guardian (I know!) and the BBC both reported that the info had been turned over already but I was expecting some sort of legal fight over it first.



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Re: Mueller's investigation of Trump

#2721

Post by MsDaisy » Tue Dec 05, 2017 3:19 pm

Trump's personal banking information handed over to Robert Mueller
Deutsche Bank, Donald Trump’s biggest lender, is forced to submit documents after special prosecutor issues subpoena
Donald Trump’s banking information has formally been turned over to Robert Mueller, the special prosecutor who is investigating whether the president’s campaign conspired with the Kremlin during the 2016 presidential election.

Deutsche Bank, the German bank that serves as Trump’s biggest lender, was forced to submit documents about its client relationship with the president and some of his family members, who are also Deutsche clients, after Mueller issued the bank with a subpoena for information, according to media reports. The news was first reported by Handelsblatt, the German newspaper.

:snippity:

Adam Schiff, the top Democrat on the House intelligence committee, which is investigating the Trump campaign, said Mueller’s reported subpoena of Deutsche Bank “would be a very significant development”.

“If Russia laundered money through the Trump Organization, it would be far more compromising than any salacious video and could be used as leverage against Donald Trump and his associates and family,” Schiff said in a statement. He was referring to a private investigator’s unsubstantiated allegation that the Kremlin had video proof of the president’s involvement in a salacious sex act.
https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/201 ... rt-mueller

So, Mueller had Trump's bank records in hand! :popcorn:


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Sugar Magnolia
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Re: Mueller's investigation of Trump

#2722

Post by Sugar Magnolia » Tue Dec 05, 2017 3:29 pm

MsDaisy wrote:
Tue Dec 05, 2017 3:19 pm

So, Mueller had Trump's bank records in hand! :popcorn:
My question, again, is whether Mueller actually HAS the records, or has simply subpoenaed them at this point.
Every single article I can find refers back to a single article by Handelsblatt, the German newspaper.



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Re: Mueller's investigation of Trump

#2723

Post by GhostOfSolomon » Tue Dec 05, 2017 3:41 pm

Sarah Hillbilly is denying these bank reports

Sanders doubles down on denying Deutsche Bank has received subpoenas: “We know that it hasn’t happened up until this point, and that these reports are totally false. The media got out ahead of their skis a little bit in pushing and driving this story.”


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Re: Mueller's investigation of Trump

#2724

Post by Kendra » Tue Dec 05, 2017 3:47 pm




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MsDaisy
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Re: Mueller's investigation of Trump

#2725

Post by MsDaisy » Tue Dec 05, 2017 3:51 pm

Sugar Magnolia wrote:
Tue Dec 05, 2017 3:29 pm
MsDaisy wrote:
Tue Dec 05, 2017 3:19 pm

So, Mueller had Trump's bank records in hand! :popcorn:
My question, again, is whether Mueller actually HAS the records, or has simply subpoenaed them at this point.
Every single article I can find refers back to a single article by Handelsblatt, the German newspaper.
I can only assume so, I looked too and Handelsblatt is supposedly a reputable publication and is the Guardian. The Guardian article did say Deutsche Bank told Bloomberg in a statement that "it always cooperated with investigating authorities". So I think they probably have turned the records over, even though the article also says that Trump’s lawyer Jay Sekulow told Reuters no subpoena had been issued or received. But I don’t have much faith in in the reliability of Trump’s lawyers.


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