Mueller's investigation of Trump

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Kendra
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Re: Mueller's investigation of Trump

#2676

Post by Kendra » Mon Dec 04, 2017 8:09 am

https://www.politico.com/story/2017/12/ ... 1?cmpid=sf
Paranoia is enveloping the White House and President Donald Trump’s network of former aides and associates as Robert Mueller’s Russia probe heats up.

Former national security adviser Michael Flynn agreed to cooperate with investigators as part of the plea deal he reached last week, adding to the worry already inside Trump’s circle surrounding the secret deal struck earlier this summer by former campaign aide George Papadopoulos, whose cooperation was kept quiet for months before being unsealed in late October.

:snippity:
Mueller is doing little to abate those suspicions. Tucked inside last week’s 10-page plea deal Flynn struck with government prosecutors is an agreement that the former White House national security adviser could avoid a potential lengthy jail term in part by “participating in covert law enforcement activities.”

Wiring up cooperating witnesses is a routine law enforcement tactic used hundreds — if not thousands — of times a year in criminal cases and on occasion for more complex white-collar investigations. It’s done to obtain a record of other conspirators and witnesses talking about their conduct, which can be used as confirmation when pressing for indictments and as first-hand evidence to be introduced during trial. Mueller, a former FBI director, and the team of veteran Justice Department prosecutors he’s surrounded himself with are schooled in the benefits of the wiring technique.



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Kendra
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Re: Mueller's investigation of Trump

#2677

Post by Kendra » Mon Dec 04, 2017 8:13 am



Who wants to take a hit for the team and watch it?



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Suranis
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Re: Mueller's investigation of Trump

#2678

Post by Suranis » Mon Dec 04, 2017 8:44 am

Kendra wrote:
Mon Dec 04, 2017 8:13 am
Who wants to take a hit for the team and watch it?


Reading down the twit thread, seems the moderator just let Derz rabbit on and this guy had to fight to be heard.



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Re: Mueller's investigation of Trump

#2679

Post by fierceredpanda » Mon Dec 04, 2017 8:47 am

That Painter tweet is from the 2nd. Dershowitz was on MSNBC Saturday, but Trump tweeted about him being on Fox & Friends this morning. No way was Painter on that panel, because he's doubtless persona non grata at Fox.


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Re: Mueller's investigation of Trump

#2680

Post by Kendra » Mon Dec 04, 2017 8:47 am

TY. I need coffee and a battery plug in for the laptop before I dare even peek at it all.



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Suranis
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Re: Mueller's investigation of Trump

#2681

Post by Suranis » Mon Dec 04, 2017 8:49 am

fierceredpanda wrote:
Mon Dec 04, 2017 8:47 am
That Painter tweet is from the 2nd. Dershowitz was on MSNBC Saturday, but Trump tweeted about him being on Fox & Friends this morning. No way was Painter on that panel, because he's doubtless persona non grata at Fox.
Oh ok. 2 different programs. My mistake. :bag: :oops:

I'm sure Derz was making the same argument though.


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Re: Mueller's investigation of Trump

#2682

Post by Tiredretiredlawyer » Mon Dec 04, 2017 8:52 am

Sterngard Friegen wrote:
Sun Dec 03, 2017 7:28 pm
Trump supporters, former campaign aides and former administration officials are beginning to privately raise red flags that the White House can’t keep up with the president’s own tweets and doesn’t have a coherent messaging strategy on the Russia investigation, according to interviews with a half-dozen people close to the president.
Yabbut that's because the President is new at this. (This = presidenting, not Tweeting.)
:rotflmao:


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Kendra
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Re: Mueller's investigation of Trump

#2683

Post by Kendra » Mon Dec 04, 2017 8:53 am

https://www.axios.com/exclusive-trump-l ... 42663.html

J
ohn Dowd, President Trump's outside lawyer, outlined to me a new and highly controversial defense/theory in the Russia probe: A president cannot be guilty of obstruction of justice.

The "President cannot obstruct justice because he is the chief law enforcement officer under [the Constitution's Article II] and has every right to express his view of any case," Dowd claims.

Dowd says he drafted this weekend's Trump tweet that many thought strengthened the case for obstruction: The tweet suggested Trump knew Flynn had lied to the FBI when he was fired, raising new questions about the later firing of FBI Director James Comey.

Dowd: "The tweet did not admit obstruction. That is an ignorant and arrogant assertion."
Why it matters: Trump's legal team is clearly setting the stage to say the president cannot be charged with any of the core crimes discussed in the Russia probe: collusion and obstruction. Presumably, you wouldn't preemptively make these arguments unless you felt there was a chance charges are coming.



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Re: Mueller's investigation of Trump

#2684

Post by fierceredpanda » Mon Dec 04, 2017 9:00 am

Suranis wrote:
Mon Dec 04, 2017 8:49 am
I'm sure Derz was making the same argument though.
Oh, for sure. Like I said over on the Flynn thread, he's either going senile or on the Trump family payroll, because his "analysis" has been risible ever since Trump took office. POTUS can't obstruct justice? WTF? Articles of Impeachment have been drafted against two different Presidents for doing exactly that. To say nothing of Dersh going along with the sophomoric retort that "collusion isn't a crime," while conveniently eliding the fact that there is a federal conspiracy statute that covers exactly this situation.

I mean, I've always thought Dershowitz was overrated as a professor and practitioner. The fact that he wrote after 9/11 that the government should create a system for approving torture with "torture warrants" gave away where his loyalties lie. He's no friend of the Constitution or of criminal defendants. He's represented some very high profile clients (OJ Simpson, Claus von Bulow), had a cushy sinecure at Harvard Law for long enough to (apparently) convince a generation of America's brightest legal minds that he's the second coming of Clarence fucking Darrow, and now here we are with him making arguments on TV that a wouldn't pass muster in a first-year Criminal Law class.

tl;dr: Fuck Alan Dershowitz forever. :twoup:


"There's no play here. There's no angle. There's no champagne room. I'm not a miracle worker, I'm a janitor. The math on this is simple; the smaller the mess, the easier it is for me to clean up." -Michael Clayton

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Kendra
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Re: Mueller's investigation of Trump

#2685

Post by Kendra » Mon Dec 04, 2017 9:04 am

fierceredpanda wrote:
Mon Dec 04, 2017 9:00 am
Suranis wrote:
Mon Dec 04, 2017 8:49 am
I'm sure Derz was making the same argument though.
Oh, for sure. Like I said over on the Flynn thread, he's either going senile or on the Trump family payroll, because his "analysis" has been risible ever since Trump took office. POTUS can't obstruct justice? WTF? Articles of Impeachment have been drafted against two different Presidents for doing exactly that. To say nothing of Dersh going along with the sophomoric retort that "collusion isn't a crime," while conveniently eliding the fact that there is a federal conspiracy statute that covers exactly this situation.

I mean, I've always thought Dershowitz was overrated as a professor and practitioner. The fact that he wrote after 9/11 that the government should create a system for approving torture with "torture warrants" gave away where his loyalties lie. He's no friend of the Constitution or of criminal defendants. He's represented some very high profile clients (OJ Simpson, Claus von Bulow), had a cushy sinecure at Harvard Law for long enough to (apparently) convince a generation of America's brightest legal minds that he's the second coming of Clarence fucking Darrow, and now here we are with him making arguments on TV that a wouldn't pass muster in a first-year Criminal Law class.

tl;dr: Fuck Alan Dershowitz forever. :twoup:
Comment of the day IMHO. I haven't followed him much on news for some years, but earlier this year when CNN had him on panels. Ugh.



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Re: Mueller's investigation of Trump

#2686

Post by Tiredretiredlawyer » Mon Dec 04, 2017 9:05 am

He drank the Flavoraid of $$$$$$$$$.


“I’ve been hooked since my first smell of C-4.” Linda Cox, first female Air Force Explosive Ordnance Disposal Technician, first to lead her own unit, go to war, be awarded a Bronze Star, and hold the highest enlisted rank of chief master sergeant.

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Re: Mueller's investigation of Trump

#2687

Post by RVInit » Mon Dec 04, 2017 9:48 am

Kendra wrote:
Mon Dec 04, 2017 8:09 am
https://www.politico.com/story/2017/12/ ... 1?cmpid=sf
Paranoia is enveloping the White House and President Donald Trump’s network of former aides and associates as Robert Mueller’s Russia probe heats up.

Former national security adviser Michael Flynn agreed to cooperate with investigators as part of the plea deal he reached last week, adding to the worry already inside Trump’s circle surrounding the secret deal struck earlier this summer by former campaign aide George Papadopoulos, whose cooperation was kept quiet for months before being unsealed in late October.

:snippity:
Mueller is doing little to abate those suspicions. Tucked inside last week’s 10-page plea deal Flynn struck with government prosecutors is an agreement that the former White House national security adviser could avoid a potential lengthy jail term in part by “participating in covert law enforcement activities.”
Would this include communications we've heard about that involve using Melania's phone to communicate with "employees" (past and present)? Since this is public, I'm assuming this is referring to covert communications that have already taken place. Oops.


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Re: Mueller's investigation of Trump

#2688

Post by GhostOfSolomon » Mon Dec 04, 2017 10:20 am

Would this include communications we've heard about that involve using Melania's phone to communicate with "employees" (past and present)? Since this is public, I'm assuming this is referring to covert communications that have already taken place. Oops.
I was hoping this as well however *cough* Brian Ross reported, Flynn only agreed to cooperate the day before.
The confidant told ABC News that Flynn felt abandoned by Trump in recent weeks, and told friends about the decision to make the plea deal within the last 24 hours as he grew increasingly concerned about crippling legal costs he would face if he continued to contest the charges.
http://abcnews.go.com/Politics/michael- ... d=50849354


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Re: Mueller's investigation of Trump

#2689

Post by RVInit » Mon Dec 04, 2017 10:29 am

GhostOfSolomon wrote:
Mon Dec 04, 2017 10:20 am
Would this include communications we've heard about that involve using Melania's phone to communicate with "employees" (past and present)? Since this is public, I'm assuming this is referring to covert communications that have already taken place. Oops.
I was hoping this as well however *cough* Brian Ross reported, Flynn only agreed to cooperate the day before.
The confidant told ABC News that Flynn felt abandoned by Trump in recent weeks, and told friends about the decision to make the plea deal within the last 24 hours as he grew increasingly concerned about crippling legal costs he would face if he continued to contest the charges.
http://abcnews.go.com/Politics/michael- ... d=50849354
OK, I see that. But, if the communications were by text message, those would still be on phone. Also, phone records would show if there were actual phone calls between his and Melania's phone, which he could testify on what was said and who exactly he was speaking with. So, yes, your point is well taken, but phone calls and text messages always become problematic because there are records in the case of calls, and record in the case of text messaging if those texts haven't been deleted from his phone.


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Re: Mueller's investigation of Trump

#2690

Post by Mikedunford » Mon Dec 04, 2017 10:32 am

I suspect that the active cooperation clause is (at least mostly) boilerplate.


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Re: Mueller's investigation of Trump

#2691

Post by GhostOfSolomon » Mon Dec 04, 2017 10:35 am

RVInit wrote:
Mon Dec 04, 2017 10:29 am
GhostOfSolomon wrote:
Mon Dec 04, 2017 10:20 am
Would this include communications we've heard about that involve using Melania's phone to communicate with "employees" (past and present)? Since this is public, I'm assuming this is referring to covert communications that have already taken place. Oops.
I was hoping this as well however *cough* Brian Ross reported, Flynn only agreed to cooperate the day before.
The confidant told ABC News that Flynn felt abandoned by Trump in recent weeks, and told friends about the decision to make the plea deal within the last 24 hours as he grew increasingly concerned about crippling legal costs he would face if he continued to contest the charges.
http://abcnews.go.com/Politics/michael- ... d=50849354
OK, I see that. But, if the communications were by text message, those would still be on phone. Also, phone records would show if there were actual phone calls between his and Melania's phone, which he could testify on what was said and who exactly he was speaking with. So, yes, your point is well taken, but phone calls and text messages always become problematic because there are records in the case of calls, and record in the case of text messaging if those texts haven't been deleted from his phone.
Image


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Re: Mueller's investigation of Trump

#2692

Post by Shizzle Popped » Mon Dec 04, 2017 10:46 am

Kendra wrote:
Mon Dec 04, 2017 8:47 am
TY. I need coffee a fifth of bourbon and a battery plug in for the laptop before I dare even peek at it all.
FIFY ;)


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Re: Mueller's investigation of Trump

#2693

Post by Kendra » Mon Dec 04, 2017 10:48 am

Shizzle Popped wrote:
Mon Dec 04, 2017 10:46 am
Kendra wrote:
Mon Dec 04, 2017 8:47 am
TY. I need coffee a fifth of bourbon and a battery plug in for the laptop before I dare even peek at it all.
FIFY ;)
:lol:



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Re: Mueller's investigation of Trump

#2694

Post by Kendra » Mon Dec 04, 2017 11:02 am



Check the date on this.



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Re: Mueller's investigation of Trump

#2695

Post by fierceredpanda » Mon Dec 04, 2017 11:10 am

Given that ABC just suspended Brian Ross for four weeks without pay for getting this story seriously wrong, I would take anything from him with many grains of salt.


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Re: Mueller's investigation of Trump

#2696

Post by Addie » Mon Dec 04, 2017 1:26 pm

CNN
WH lawyer told Trump that Flynn misled FBI and Pence

Washington (CNN)The White House's chief lawyer told President Donald Trump in January he believed then-national security adviser Michael Flynn had misled the FBI and lied to Vice President Mike Pence and should be fired, a source familiar with the matter said Monday.

The description of the conversation raises new questions about what Trump knew about Flynn's situation when he urged then-FBI Director James Comey to drop the investigation into Flynn and whether anyone in the White House, including the President himself, attempted to obstruct justice. Special counsel Robert Mueller is investigating whether the Trump campaign colluded with Russians, a probe led by Comey until Trump fired him.

White House counsel Donald McGahn told Trump that based on his conversation with then-acting Attorney General Sally Yates, he believed Flynn had not told the truth in his interview with the FBI or to Pence, the source said. McGahn did not tell the President that Flynn had violated the law in his FBI interview or was under criminal investigation, the source said.

The Washington Post first reported that Trump knew Flynn had likely provided inaccurate information to the FBI and Pence. ...

It is not clear whether FBI investigators had conclusively determined Flynn was lying to them at the time McGahn approached Trump. ...

Despite McGahn's recommendation that Trump fire Flynn, the retired lieutenant general was kept on. Flynn was forced out in mid-February after news outlets reported about Yates' warning to McGahn.


¡Qué vergüenza!

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Re: Mueller's investigation of Trump

#2697

Post by Sterngard Friegen » Mon Dec 04, 2017 1:29 pm

Don McGahn = John Dean without the criminality.



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RVInit
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Re: Mueller's investigation of Trump

#2698

Post by RVInit » Mon Dec 04, 2017 1:35 pm

Is this true?



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Re: Mueller's investigation of Trump

#2699

Post by GreatGrey » Mon Dec 04, 2017 5:01 pm



They just don’t know when to shut up.


I am not "someone upthread".
Trump needs to be smashed into some kind of inedible orange pâté.

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Re: Mueller's investigation of Trump

#2700

Post by Mikedunford » Mon Dec 04, 2017 5:36 pm

Full filing: https://www.courtlistener.com/docket/61 ... -manafort/

Manafort is weapons-grade stooopid.


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