"The Media is a goddam problem" General Thread

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Suranis
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"The Media is a goddam problem" General Thread

#1

Post by Suranis » Thu Nov 10, 2016 12:00 am

Ok THIS thread you can talk about the media failing at its job in general. I hope this thread will only have cobwebs in it, but I have a feeling it will get very busy, very fast.


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Re: "The Media is failing at its job." General Thread

#2

Post by Whatever4 » Thu Nov 10, 2016 12:20 am

It's the bubble thing -- Conservatives listen to Conservative media, Liberals listen to Liberal Media, there's no Center media.

So what IS their job? Return on Investment? If so, looks like they are doing their job. Truth? :lol:


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Re: "The Media is a goddam problem" General Thread

#3

Post by Suranis » Thu Nov 10, 2016 2:46 pm

Thread title changed.


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Re: "The Media is a goddam problem" General Thread

#4

Post by jamese777 » Thu Nov 10, 2016 3:12 pm

"The media" is an awfully broad term encompassing print, broadcast, cable, radio, Internet, et cetera. Different media have a wide variety of goals and missions.
For example, the goal of the televised/streamed corporate broadcast and cable news media is to entertain via information while providing a return on investment for owners/shareholders. The emphasis then is on Nielsen ratings and advertising revenue.



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Re: "The Media is a goddam problem" General Thread

#5

Post by Slim Cognito » Thu Nov 10, 2016 3:36 pm

Facebook sure didn't help. I saw so much bullshit in Facebook memes. I'd try to correct the record by posting fact-checks but all that got me was a lot of name calling and threats so I finally unfollowed the people who were posting them. Then I finally quit surfing. It was making me literally ill (and, yes, I mean literally).



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Re: "The Media is a goddam problem" General Thread

#6

Post by Suranis » Thu Nov 10, 2016 3:45 pm

Facebook is the worst. A cesspool of people posting memes without checking them out at all. And I've seen left and right wingers doing it.

A couple of Nights before the election I saw one guy who was excitedly poisting that Judicial watch had got some DIA documents that proved Hillary was guilty and that the FBI were indicting her. When someone else asked was that true she said something to the effect of "yeah! Judicial Watch has publisjed it! Its DIA documents." Of course, with the power of my sherlock Holmes eye for detail I replied "Yes, but there is a small problem... there is nothing whatsoever o the Judicial watch website about it. Go look if you want" and suddenly the guy stopped posting. He literally had not done the bare minimum of factchecking... looking at the freaking website of the place he was claiming his news came from.

Facebook has become probably the greatest tool for misinformation on the internet.


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Re: "The Media is a goddam problem" General Thread

#7

Post by bob » Thu Nov 10, 2016 3:55 pm

Suranis wrote:Facebook has become probably the greatest tool for misinformation on the internet.
And promoting energy-diverting slacktivism.


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Re: "The Media is a goddam problem" General Thread

#8

Post by Mikedunford » Thu Nov 10, 2016 4:19 pm

bob wrote:
Suranis wrote:Facebook has become probably the greatest tool for misinformation on the internet.
And promoting energy-diverting slacktivism.
Seriously. The next person to send me a fucking change.org petition link will do so at their own significant peril.


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Re: "The Media is a goddam problem" General Thread

#9

Post by Dan1100 » Thu Nov 10, 2016 4:34 pm

I hate to agree with Donald Trump about something, but here is goes.

We need libel law reform. Propaganda should be protected by the First Amendment. The First Amendment shouldn't protect the press when they straight up lie to their audience.

Fox News and to a much greater extent Breitbart and Infowars type media outlets spread lies, plain and simple. There is no reason to sugar coat that.

When someone goes on TV and says that President Obama is lying about being born in America and is an illegitimate president, the libel laws should allow them to be successfully sued. Same with the crazy stuff they made up about Hillary.

Flame away. :torches:


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Re: "The Media is a goddam problem" General Thread

#10

Post by RVInit » Thu Nov 10, 2016 4:37 pm

OK, I just went down to the f'ing break room again, where the TV is locked on Faux "news" and we aren't allowed to change it. The anchor was claiming that a Clinton protester said that there are "going to have to be killings because that's the only way anything gets done".

Here is one of my beefs with Faux: I can give many examples where they make statements such as the above, but, somehow they never seem to have video or audio of what they are claiming happened. So, OK, who exactly heard this statement? Was it a reporter? If so, why no camera person present? Etc, etc. My suspicion is that this did not happen. I'm sorry, but, I've seen Faux "news" rating on Politifact and it is extremely bad, pretty much the worst of any news station, so, they have some credibility issues with me. I am angry with CNN and not watching them either, but, at least when they do a similar story they don't just have an anchor saying that this or that happened, they actually show a video segment of what they are claiming happened.


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Re: "The Media is a goddam problem" General Thread

#11

Post by izzybella » Thu Nov 10, 2016 5:02 pm

I'm not watching CNN or MSNBC ever again. MSNBC gave Trump millions of dollars in free advertising and CNN freaking hired his campaign manager. I'm done with all of it. I am sticking to online news, but I had to take a break because Trump is plastered in living orange over every page.

As for Facebook, sadly, I learned that some of my high school friends are outright racist, so I guess it was a good thing in that I rid myself of them. There were a few comments here and there during Obama's run, but nothing like this time around. Trump used some kind of magical power to bring the deplorables out of the woodwork. I won't miss them.



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Re: "The Media is a goddam problem" General Thread

#12

Post by Fortinbras » Thu Nov 10, 2016 7:08 pm

Post-election someone came up with a statistic that an overwhelming percentage of major newsmedia coverage of Trump was "negative". From my point of view, it would have been difficult to have been otherwise considering Trump's behavior, but I can imagine that even mildly conservative folk watching the evening news or reading the morning rag spotted the bias and resented it.



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Re: "The Media is a goddam problem" General Thread

#13

Post by Lani » Thu Nov 10, 2016 10:56 pm

Mikedunford wrote:
bob wrote:
Suranis wrote:Facebook has become probably the greatest tool for misinformation on the internet.
And promoting energy-diverting slacktivism.
Seriously. The next person to send me a fucking change.org petition link will do so at their own significant peril.
I hate social media, increasingly so during the presidential campaign. Absolute garbage. Since the election, I've been seriously thinking of closing my facebook account.

I finally checked my facebook for the first time since Tuesday. I was dreading it, but it wasn't as bad as I feared. I did unfollow, but not defriend, one person. My page is only view-able by friends, so that keeps a lot of crap out of it.

There were some friends (I thought) who became full blown Bernie Bros awhile back, cursed me big time, and posted lots of conspiracy crap before defriending me. For which I thank them. That cleaned up my feed quite a bit.

I unfollowed a number of people awhile back because they posted ALL THE TIME, and it was mostly crap. I highly recommend that option. It certainly reduced the amount of time I had to spend on cleaning things up. Also reduces blood pressure! I can visit their pages to see what's going with them.

For now, I'm not closing facebook. Too many friends spread around the world - it's how we stay in touch. But I wish we had an alternative to what has become a sewer.


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Re: "The Media is a goddam problem" General Thread

#14

Post by Whatever4 » Thu Nov 10, 2016 11:55 pm

Check your media bias here:

https://mediabiasfactcheck.com/


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Re: "The Media is a goddam problem" General Thread

#15

Post by RVInit » Thu Feb 01, 2018 1:19 pm

CNN is running a speech that Trump is making to Republicans. It's a full on advertisement for how great Republicans are and looky what we did for Americans and how we are making America great again. That burns me up. Throughout the entire freakin' campaign season the media lapped up every damn word that freak show had to say and pushed every minute of it on us. While completely ignoring or giving 10 second sound bite clips to everyone else. I am sick and tired of seeing this freak on TV.


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Re: "The Media is a goddam problem" General Thread

#16

Post by DejaMoo » Thu Feb 01, 2018 1:45 pm

Somebody said,
Mainstream media doesn't exist anymore. There's only corporate media, local media and social media.

Plus propaganda.
There's a great deal of truth there. The problem with the corporatization of media is twofold: it led to the emphasis on ratings, which resulted in the gradual transformation of news into entertainment. It also means that the newsroom cannot work without interference from powerful interests, whether those interests are its own owner, cronies of the owner, or powerful third parties flexing their mu$cle to get what they want.

This was brought home to me when our union went out on strike. The area media's initial reaction was to only go to the employer to get the story. We had to work hard on outreach to the media to get them to pay any attention to us. And then the pushback hit. We heard from media people that their stories on us were getting killed. In other cases, their editors shifted the focus of the story from the union's/employees' perspective to that of the employer. We were also told - off the record - why this was happening: the employer had told the area media that if they didn't do what the employer wanted, they'd lose access to that subject which is a major and daily segment of the news, and (in a more general sense) the national preoccupation. They couldn't take the chance of that happening, so they cooperated. After all, they were still covering the story...even though they were only covering it from one side.

A much more major and more recent example was the destruction of Gawker by a powerful and vindictive billionaire. He used his money to sue it out of existence.

But there's still hope:

Archiving the alternative press threatened by wealthy buyers
Freedom of the Press Foundation is launching an online archives collection in partnership with Archive-It, a service developed by the Internet Archive to help organizations preserve online content. Our collection, focusing on news outlets we deem to be especially vulnerable to "billionaire problem," aims to preserve sites in their entirety before their archives can be taken down or manipulated.
:snippity:
There are larger structural issues that render news outlets vulnerable to the billionaire problem. Those issues may be beyond the scope of any single organization to address. Our earlier work in this area includes gotham-grabber, which aims to limit the professional harm a vindictive media owner could do to the careers of individual journalists. We continue to extend that tool to work with additional outlets, including this weekend to cover The Toast, after its former editor reported that its archives will be shuttered; if you are a journalist who needs PDF backups of your work from archives that may not stick around, please get in touch.

Those efforts help individual journalists. But another important thing we can do to reduce the effectiveness of this kind of attack on press freedom is to commit ourselves to the wholesale preservation of threatened sites.
Holding corrupt institutions accountable - Can social media be a check on power when mainstream news outlets cannot?
A paper in the January issue of American Economic Journal: Applied Economics considers whether social media could hold institutional corruption in check when mainstream media is unable — or unwilling — to do so. Could bloggers perform the role that state-owned media does not, and if so, how big of an impact could they have?
:snippity:
...Indeed, his writing had an impact. The stock returns of companies that Navalny targeted dropped within three hours after he posted, amounting to a daily effect of 0.33 percentage points. There were larger impacts from particularly focused posts where he mentions a single company at least five times, with the stock price dropping up to 1.26 percentage points. The effects were comparable to the average effect of quarterly earnings reports for those companies.

Whether a single blogger like Navalny can have a similar impact on corrupt political institutions is less likely. As a tool for organizing protests, however, social media can be effective in holding leaders accountable, Enikolopov said, citing Italy’s Five Star Movement.

There is a dark side to social media’s influence, as evidenced by reports about Russian hackers using it as a tool to disrupt the U.S. election. Currently, Enikolopov is researching social media’s relationship to hate crime. The evidence suggests that the more people use social media, the more hate crimes occur, he said. The question is whether it is simply removing social stigmas for people to espouse their latent racist beliefs, or causing people to actually become more racist.



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Re: "The Media is a goddam problem" General Thread

#17

Post by RVInit » Thu Feb 01, 2018 2:42 pm

OK. So now CNN is giving Paul Ryan's speech, I guess they will broadcast it in full as well. The Republicans have become so cynical and cunning as it pertains to this tax bill. Average Americans get a tax break long enough for the next two to four elections. I can't remember if they expire for middle American by 2022 or if it's later than that. We will never have a balanced budget again, because at some point you just cannot pay that much debt off. And Democrats likely will not have power again. At most we will get a President who is a four or eight year lame duck. I am just absolutely sick to my stomach.
Edit: And, with all due respect I think Schumer was wrong to try to declare that middle America is getting "nothing" - that is going to come back to bite Democrats hard. He should have pointed out the cynicism of giving middle America tax cuts that will carry through 2020 and then expire - long enough to consolidate power. But I honestly don't know if that would have been better. Democrats are just fucked - play fair or win. Not a good choice.


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Re: "The Media is a goddam problem" General Thread

#18

Post by DejaMoo » Thu Feb 01, 2018 3:56 pm

RVInit wrote:
Thu Feb 01, 2018 2:42 pm
Edit: And, with all due respect I think Schumer was wrong to try to declare that middle America is getting "nothing" - that is going to come back to bite Democrats hard.
On another forum, the higher-end middle income earners are already extremely disgruntled. They've lost their deductions so they're now seeing their tax bite go UP.

The way to combat the tax cut thing is to redefine it (correctly) as a revenue cut and a cost shift. People think a tax cut is great, but they're not at all happy about losing income. And that's what this is: Uncle Sam is getting his income cut, and as a result he's not going be able to keep his country in decent shape. He won't have the money to fix the roads. He won't have the money to maintain essential services.

That means we'll either agree to let the house we all live in go downhill, till its roof leaks and the toilet don't flush and the electricity doesn't work half the time - or we get the money somehow. Meaning: your federal taxes might have gone down, but your state and local taxes are gonna go up, up, up. Because the money has to come from somewhere. Take the wealthiest's taxes out of the revenue stream and that means either a lot more taxes from the rest of us, or a lot worse country to live in.



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Re: "The Media is a goddam problem" General Thread

#19

Post by Judge Roy Bean » Thu Feb 01, 2018 4:03 pm

Whatever4 wrote:
Thu Nov 10, 2016 11:55 pm
Check your media bias here:

https://mediabiasfactcheck.com/
Realizing it's been some time since that link was posted, I decided to take a look and found there's not only a perception of bias problem in media, there's the sheer volume.

Media Bias Fact Check maintains a categorical list and of the 1,321 media outlets* they monitor and evaluate, they break them down into 5 categories, Left Biased, Left Center Biased, Least Biased, Right Center Biased and Right Biased.

LB: 257
LCB: 382
LB: 277
RCB: 186
RB: 219

Interestingly, 639 (48.4%) are Left or Left Center; 405 (30.7%) are Right or Right Center; only 277 (21%) are classified as Least Biased.

The impact of Facebook and YouTube has become a force-multiplier; most of the political content that goes up on those sites are repeats of and/or links to a number of these other media outlets.

It's only natural that the right sees more "news" that appears to be left biased. There's simply more of it to go around.


*Many of those on their lists I can safely say I've never heard of, but they include print media, radio, broadcast and cable television as well as a number of international sources.



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Re: "The Media is a goddam problem" General Thread

#20

Post by RVInit » Thu Feb 01, 2018 4:03 pm

DejaMoo wrote:
Thu Feb 01, 2018 3:56 pm
RVInit wrote:
Thu Feb 01, 2018 2:42 pm
Edit: And, with all due respect I think Schumer was wrong to try to declare that middle America is getting "nothing" - that is going to come back to bite Democrats hard.
On another forum, the higher-end middle income earners are already extremely disgruntled. They've lost their deductions so they're now seeing their tax bite go UP.

The way to combat the tax cut thing is to redefine it (correctly) as a revenue cut and a cost shift. People think a tax cut is great, but they're not at all happy about losing income. And that's what this is: Uncle Sam is getting his income cut, and as a result he's not going be able to keep his country in decent shape. He won't have the money to fix the roads. He won't have the money to maintain essential services.

That means we'll either agree to let the house we all live in go downhill, till its roof leaks and the toilet don't flush and the electricity doesn't work half the time - or we get the money somehow. Meaning: your federal taxes might have gone down, but your state and local taxes are gonna go up, up, up. Because the money has to come from somewhere. Take the wealthiest's taxes out of the revenue stream and that means either a lot more taxes from the rest of us, or a lot worse country to live in.
Off Topic
The problem is that Republicans get to say "Tax cut". That pretty much matches the average attention span. Democrats get to explain something that takes two or three paragraphs. I guess that is what is meant by "we get the government we deserve".

OK, I am seeing that I started a topic hijack. SORRY, my bad!!! Damn, sometimes it's so easy to slide right into something else.


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Re: "The Media is a goddam problem" General Thread

#21

Post by Foggy » Thu Feb 01, 2018 5:25 pm

People, don't apologize for threadjacks. This is gonna happen when you let Earthlings use a forum. We can always curtail them if they get out of hand. :bighug:


... and how does that make you feel?
What is it you're trying to say?
:think:

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Re: "The Media is a goddam problem" General Thread

#22

Post by AndyinPA » Thu Feb 01, 2018 6:58 pm

Media also includes newspapers. Remember when most fair-sized cities had at least two newspapers? One usually reported news that was favorable to employers; the other reported news that was more favorable to unions/working people. Ive lived in or around Pittsburgh most of my life and lived right outside of Detroit. I can remember that from both cities. It's no longer true today. I think only one newspaper still survives in Detroit, a conservative one. Here we lost one of the newspapers and the Post-Gazette became a little more moderate. Then Scaife (as bad as the Koch brothers, if not as rich) started up a conservative rag out of a small town about forty miles outside of Pittsburgh, but pushed it as a Pittsburgh paper.

And I don't think news changed gradually once it was moved to the entertainment section. It's just taken this long for it to get this bad. Media is in too few hands.

If we ever get power back, we will need a good, old-fashioned trust buster. I'd start with the media and then go after Jeff Bezos. And since he has bought the Washington Post, I guess we can actually start with him, too.



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Re: "The Media is a goddam problem" General Thread

#23

Post by p0rtia » Thu Feb 01, 2018 7:10 pm

RVInit wrote:
Thu Feb 01, 2018 1:19 pm
CNN is running a speech that Trump is making to Republicans. It's a full on advertisement for how great Republicans are and looky what we did for Americans and how we are making America great again. That burns me up. Throughout the entire freakin' campaign season the media lapped up every damn word that freak show had to say and pushed every minute of it on us. While completely ignoring or giving 10 second sound bite clips to everyone else. I am sick and tired of seeing this freak on TV.
This. Day in and day out for two years.

I have a well-read and educated friend who believes that if the news shows put something on the TV screen, it must be true, because it's against the law to present lies.

:crying:


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