Bundy Ranch Trial #2--The Big One: Cliven, Ammon, cRyan, Ryan Payne, Pete Santilli

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Northland10
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Re: Bundy Ranch Trial #2--The Big One: Cliven, Ammon, cRyan, Ryan Payne, Pete Santilli

#676

Post by Northland10 » Tue Nov 14, 2017 6:16 pm

NMgirl wrote:
Tue Nov 14, 2017 5:47 pm
@CraigNews3LV
2h2 hours ago

Ryan Bundy, free from federal custody, is having lunch in the courthouse cafe. He’ll present his opening statement to the jury after the break.


DOnurwpXcAAY2ii.jpg
Hats off indoors, especially in an eating establishment.


North-land: of the family 10
UCC 1-106 Plural is Singular, Singular is Plural.

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Re: Bundy Ranch Trial #2--The Big One: Cliven, Ammon, cRyan, Ryan Payne, Pete Santilli

#677

Post by Grumpy Old Guy » Tue Nov 14, 2017 6:24 pm

Northland10 wrote:
Tue Nov 14, 2017 6:16 pm
NMgirl wrote:
Tue Nov 14, 2017 5:47 pm
@CraigNews3LV
:snippity: :snippity:
Hats off indoors, especially in an eating establishment.
[/quote.]

A real cowboy would know that.



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Mikedunford
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Re: Bundy Ranch Trial #2--The Big One: Cliven, Ammon, cRyan, Ryan Payne, Pete Santilli

#678

Post by Mikedunford » Tue Nov 14, 2017 6:31 pm

All hat, no melons.


I believe that each era finds a improvement in law each year brings something new for the benefit of mankind.

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Re: Bundy Ranch Trial #2--The Big One: Cliven, Ammon, cRyan, Ryan Payne, Pete Santilli

#679

Post by NMgirl » Tue Nov 14, 2017 6:48 pm

Sounds like Whipple did a fine job with his opening. :(

Max, bottom to top:
Whipple on why 100s came to support Bundys: 'It had everything to do w/ what was beating in their chest...b/c they're Americans. B/C in America it's OK to help.''

Judge said she thinks jurors are told they're being shuttled to court 'because we don't have parking.'

Court done for day.J. Morgan Philpot asked what jurors are being told about being shuttled to court by bus?

Ryan Bundy will be allowed to move to an approved home on home detention, allowed out for court , church, meetings with lawyers

Whipple:'Democracy gets a little messy folks.' Quoting a paperweight Herbert Hoover had, he told jurors: 'the buck stops with you.'

Whipple said Cliven asked for her because his family was being attached, his son was abused & 'that's not a crime.'

Whipple said FBI had undercover agents among the protesters in the Wash outside Bunkerville

On April 12th, 'there's no crime under the bridge because the (impound) operation already ended ,' Whipple said

Whipple argued BLM decision to cease impound operation happened 4/11/14 - 'Dan Love's conduct is what created April 12th'

Whipple:'At the end of the day, the govt. is us - accountable to we the people.'

Whipple:'Didi it look like Aunt Mae was going to get run over? that he threw her to the ground for her safety?!'

Whipple: played video of Aunt Mae( Margaret Houston) getting thrown to ground after she had moved to side of a federal truck

WHipple:video of law enforcement's 'abuse' and arrest of Dave Bundy along state route 170 on 4/6/16 went viral & drew Bundy supporters

Whipple :'There was a SWAT team. THere was an FBI team. THey were snooping.'

Bundys figured out there was an FBI surveillance team outside Ranch in 3/14 w/ riflemen clutching AR15s, & surveillance camera

Whipple , w/ mic on jacket, walked back and forth before jury, sometimes raising his voice loudly , contending govt didn't tell whole story

Whipple said more than 50 ranchers have been run off their land in NV's Clark County leaving one rancher : his client

Whipple said if BLM removed cattle from range, Bundy would lose water rights he had

Cliven Bundy's view is 'he has a right to the range because he has used it for so long ,' Whipple said

Whipple:'That wasn't something that just happened over night,' and he argued it was the BLM, Feds who were intimidating

Cliven Bundy's lawyer Bret Whipple just completed an energetic opening, providing history of Bundy Ranch that he said let to the 'protest'



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Re: Bundy Ranch Trial #2--The Big One: Cliven, Ammon, cRyan, Ryan Payne, Pete Santilli

#680

Post by NMgirl » Tue Nov 14, 2017 6:54 pm

Leah:
Also Whipple quoted Herbert Hoover as having a paperweight on his desk reading "the buck stops here." Not too be a dick, but that was Truman:
:snippity:
Fact check: Whipple "quoted" Mark Twain, "alcohol is for drinking, water is for fighting." But in 2011 Twain's biographer said of that quote: "It's a great quote but I really don't believe that Twain ever said it."

Whipple was extremely bombastic in his opening. Basically the opposite of the government, so sleepy juror stayed wide awake for his presentation.

"the only thing he ever wanted to do was...raise cattle," Whipple said of his client. Discussed federal land and water rights. "it's his position he has the right to the range because he's used it for so long."

Concluding the first day of the #Bundytrial, Bret Whipple gave opening statements for Cliven Bundy, starting with the founding of Clark County in 1866 and founding of the family ranch in 1877.
The best thing about having multiple botg is that we get such a variety of reactions and so much color.



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Re: Bundy Ranch Trial #2--The Big One: Cliven, Ammon, cRyan, Ryan Payne, Pete Santilli

#681

Post by NMgirl » Tue Nov 14, 2017 7:00 pm

JJ McNabb on Whipple's lies about the Bundy ranching history:
Ironically, when Mormon settlers attempted to settle the area, it was as a commune - no individual ownership of any property (land, livestock, etc.) They lasted two years before the flooding drove them away.



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Re: Bundy Ranch Trial #2--The Big One: Cliven, Ammon, cRyan, Ryan Payne, Pete Santilli

#682

Post by maydijo » Tue Nov 14, 2017 7:06 pm

Again, I'm biased, but it didn't seem like that strong of an opening argument to me. So what if he thinks he should have the right to graze because he's always grazed there? It's what the law says that matters, and the law has said, firmly and repeatedly, that he does not have the right to graze there. If he wants to make that argument, it seems to me that all the government has to do is to point out the laws on squatting, and that takes the wind out of their sails.



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Re: Bundy Ranch Trial #2--The Big One: Cliven, Ammon, cRyan, Ryan Payne, Pete Santilli

#683

Post by maydijo » Tue Nov 14, 2017 7:07 pm

NMgirl wrote:
Tue Nov 14, 2017 7:00 pm
JJ McNabb on Whipple's lies about the Bundy ranching history:
Ironically, when Mormon settlers attempted to settle the area, it was as a commune - no individual ownership of any property (land, livestock, etc.) They lasted two years before the flooding drove them away.
The Law of Consecration - probably my favourite period of Mormon history. It was, of course, a dismal failure in all ways. Spoiler alert - people are greedy.



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Re: Bundy Ranch Trial #2--The Big One: Cliven, Ammon, cRyan, Ryan Payne, Pete Santilli

#684

Post by NMgirl » Tue Nov 14, 2017 7:10 pm

JJ McNabb again:
Max: Whipple said more than 50 ranchers have been run off their land in NV's Clark County leaving one rancher : his client

JJ: That was Cliven's claim but it wasn't true.



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Re: Bundy Ranch Trial #2--The Big One: Cliven, Ammon, cRyan, Ryan Payne, Pete Santilli

#685

Post by NMgirl » Tue Nov 14, 2017 7:33 pm

In case you aren't aware of it, the Bundy family has an official, paid spokesperson (not joking). Hyde lies a lot, but he is much better at it than any of the other Poot so-called reporters. Much, much better.




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Re: Bundy Ranch Trial #2--The Big One: Cliven, Ammon, cRyan, Ryan Payne, Pete Santilli

#686

Post by NMgirl » Tue Nov 14, 2017 8:03 pm

Tweets, various:
Bundy Court Sketches‏
@hecktow

Ryan Bundy addressing Judge: "I am ryan c of the bundy society" when introducing himself to jury " I am Ryan Bundy"

The jury looks like the United Nations, varied ethnicity. You know when you are called to jury duty and they show that film with a jury duty? this could be the cast of a film like that.

Craig Fiegener‏Verified account

Cliven Bundy’s attorney told jurors that online video showing rough behavior between law enforcement & Bundy supporters motivated more people to show up— not a conspiracy by Cliven, he said. He showed video from a tweet sent by @SergioNewsMan on April 9, 2014.



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Re: Bundy Ranch Trial #2--The Big One: Cliven, Ammon, cRyan, Ryan Payne, Pete Santilli

#687

Post by NMgirl » Tue Nov 14, 2017 8:12 pm

Ammo wants a mistrial, RIGHT THIS VERY MINUTE.

Ammo's Second Motion for Mistrial RIGHT NOW .pdf
Edit: For IAALs: There aren't really any grounds for Brady and Gigolo, are there? :pray:
You do not have the required permissions to view the files attached to this post.



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Kendra
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Re: Bundy Ranch Trial #2--The Big One: Cliven, Ammon, cRyan, Ryan Payne, Pete Santilli

#688

Post by Kendra » Tue Nov 14, 2017 8:41 pm

https://

redoubtnews.com/2017/11/proof-govt-entrapment-bundys/
:snippity: Every day brings new startling revelations. It has recently come to light that there are photos in the discovery which show the prosecutors in the case near the scene of the 2014 standoff, prior to the first escalation of events.

The photos were apparently taken on April 3, 2014. This was 3 days before Dave Bundy’s arrest and well before any protesters arrived. The photos show Assistant U.S. Attorney Nadia Ahmed (now one of the prosecutors of the Bundys) as well as U.S. Magistrate Judge Ferenbach at the impound site. Also present, apparently, are other members of the U.S. Attorneys office, including possibly even then-US Attorney Daniel Bogden.

The fact that this photo is part of the sealed discovery goes to show the importance the government places on their back-door dealings which led up to the prosecutions. Why must everything be hidden from the citizens?

This photo was buried in a massive amount of discovery. It has been estimated that the size of the discovery in this case exceeds 4 terabytes, and includes 2 full novels and multiple unrelated medical records. :snippity:



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Re: Bundy Ranch Trial #2--The Big One: Cliven, Ammon, cRyan, Ryan Payne, Pete Santilli

#689

Post by NMgirl » Tue Nov 14, 2017 8:50 pm

More from Scott:

prosecution talked a lot about Pete Santilli and his involvement in the alleged conspiracy. showed videos and graphics. Seems like Pete's plea on conspiracy will be front and center.

Opening Arguments summery: Myhre: (government) was detailed and solid but put the jury to sleep at times. Whipple was loud and dramatic, but facts were questionable, he woke up the jury however.

Readers on this thread are going to have to browse and sluice through my posts and decide what's worth their time. I'm posting what I see, without discriminating, and there's a fair amount of dreck, no doubt. If you want me to post less material, say so.



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Re: Bundy Ranch Trial #2--The Big One: Cliven, Ammon, cRyan, Ryan Payne, Pete Santilli

#690

Post by SparklyFlitter » Tue Nov 14, 2017 10:18 pm

Just as an FYI for those of you on FB, the page “Bunkerville Standoff: The Facts They Don’t Share” has all the filings from Pacer on it. I keep forgetting to link them here, no sense in multiple people paying the fees. I’ll try to be better about transferring links when they come up, but it seems they update it every day with new filings, transcripts, etc




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Re: Bundy Ranch Trial #2--The Big One: Cliven, Ammon, cRyan, Ryan Payne, Pete Santilli

#692

Post by pipistrelle » Tue Nov 14, 2017 10:42 pm

Northland10 wrote:
Tue Nov 14, 2017 6:16 pm
NMgirl wrote:
Tue Nov 14, 2017 5:47 pm
@CraigNews3LV
2h2 hours ago

Ryan Bundy, free from federal custody, is having lunch in the courthouse cafe. He’ll present his opening statement to the jury after the break.


DOnurwpXcAAY2ii.jpg
Hats off indoors, especially in an eating establishment.
I think I know why always wears a hat. He's a balding, insignificant man, like Ammon, and the oversized hat and suit boost his feeling of importance. Otherwise, he wouldn't be a bigger-than-life Bundy. He's a nobody without the hat.



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Re: Bundy Ranch Trial #2--The Big One: Cliven, Ammon, cRyan, Ryan Payne, Pete Santilli

#693

Post by pipistrelle » Tue Nov 14, 2017 10:48 pm

NMgirl wrote:
Tue Nov 14, 2017 11:29 am
@Leah_Sottile
On the morning of #Bundytrial opening statements, Ryan Bundy, now in a halfway house, arrives to court in a white limousine after spending 600+ days behind bars.
So happy to see that grifted Pootbucks are being spent so wisely.

Edited to add Lambo's video of Ryan's triumphal return to the courthouse.

So let me do a summary of what I can remember off the top of my head in a couple of minutes:

Moe grifts for months for buckets for "patriots" to poop in, but now suddenly after driving thousands of miles she's too disabled to drive.
Sarah grifts off and on, between her adulterous liaisons with Cooper and divorce proceedings.
Angie essentially kicks a couple out of their home and lets them back into the basement only until she figures out what she's going to do with 8 kids and no watermelon rustler.
Lisa's on Facebook suffering in her walk-in closet that's bigger than some people's apartments, while her brother-in-law arrives at court in a limo sporting a suit, like he thinks he's arriving at the Country Music Awards.
And while Ryan's dressed to the nines, presumably Ammon's still in his prison duds?



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Re: Bundy Ranch Trial #2--The Big One: Cliven, Ammon, cRyan, Ryan Payne, Pete Santilli

#694

Post by pipistrelle » Tue Nov 14, 2017 10:58 pm

NMgirl wrote:
Tue Nov 14, 2017 8:50 pm
More from Scott:
Opening Arguments summery: Myhre: (government) was detailed and solid but put the jury to sleep at times. Whipple was loud and dramatic, but facts were questionable, he woke up the jury however.
The jury isn't going to know the facts are questionable (and then some).

Am I understanding correctly that it's acceptable for an attorney to lie outright in court during representation?



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Re: Bundy Ranch Trial #2--The Big One: Cliven, Ammon, cRyan, Ryan Payne, Pete Santilli

#695

Post by Pompeed » Tue Nov 14, 2017 11:03 pm

maydijo wrote:
Tue Nov 14, 2017 7:06 pm
Again, I'm biased, but it didn't seem like that strong of an opening argument to me. So what if he thinks he should have the right to graze because he's always grazed there? It's what the law says that matters, and the law has said, firmly and repeatedly, that he does not have the right to graze there. If he wants to make that argument, it seems to me that all the government has to do is to point out the laws on squatting, and that takes the wind out of their sails.


This does not seem a difficult problem to me.

He could make a contract to graze his cattle on land which belongs to all of us. Just as he had done for twenty some years. Preserving his water rights all the while.

All he had to do is continue to do what he had done without raising any objection for a couple of decades: pay the god damn bill he owed to us which cheap money subsidized his cattle business!

I think most people can understand that the use of someone else's property -- real or personal -- is very rarely complementary and 99 times out of a 100 requires PAYMENT to the owner of the property for the use!

Easy peasy lemon squeezy.



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Re: Bundy Ranch Trial #2--The Big One: Cliven, Ammon, cRyan, Ryan Payne, Pete Santilli

#696

Post by NMgirl » Tue Nov 14, 2017 11:05 pm

pipistrelle wrote:
Tue Nov 14, 2017 10:58 pm
:snippity:

The jury isn't going to know the facts are questionable (and then some).

Am I understanding correctly that it's acceptable for an attorney to lie outright in court during representation?
I've wondered about that, too. IAALs care to chime in :?:



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Re: Bundy Ranch Trial #2--The Big One: Cliven, Ammon, cRyan, Ryan Payne, Pete Santilli

#697

Post by Pompeed » Tue Nov 14, 2017 11:25 pm

NMgirl wrote:
Tue Nov 14, 2017 11:05 pm
pipistrelle wrote:
Tue Nov 14, 2017 10:58 pm
:snippity:

The jury isn't going to know the facts are questionable (and then some).

Am I understanding correctly that it's acceptable for an attorney to lie outright in court during representation?
I've wondered about that, too. IAALs care to chime in :?:


If I had the chance because the defendant(s) were on the stand -- up to them in a criminal case -- I'd force them to admit to the correct facts substantiated by the documentary record.

Opening statements are a promise to the jury of what one's side is for sure going to produce as proof.

And when the witness was forced to disagree with his own attorney, I'd make that attorney out as the one who didn't fulfill the opening promise and a liar for his client.

If I couldn't do it that way, I'd do it though my own witness and make the other side's attorney out the liar as to objective facts. Which puts everything else the attorney and his client says or does under greater scrutiny.

In the minds of some jurors, lying about a fair number of easily proven small things adds up.



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Re: Bundy Ranch Trial #2--The Big One: Cliven, Ammon, cRyan, Ryan Payne, Pete Santilli

#698

Post by Sterngard Friegen » Tue Nov 14, 2017 11:39 pm

If the limousine arrival ever gets to the jury they will not be happy.



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Re: Bundy Ranch Trial #2--The Big One: Cliven, Ammon, cRyan, Ryan Payne, Pete Santilli

#699

Post by NMgirl » Tue Nov 14, 2017 11:43 pm

Pompeed wrote:
Tue Nov 14, 2017 11:25 pm

:snippity:

If I had the chance because the defendant(s) were on the stand -- up to them in a criminal case -- I'd force them to admit to the correct facts substantiated by the documentary record.

Opening statements are a promise to the jury of what one's side is for sure going to produce as proof.

And when the witness was forced to disagree with his own attorney, I'd make that attorney out as the one who didn't fulfill the opening promise and a liar for his client.

If I couldn't do it that way, I'd do it though my own witness and make the other side's attorney out the liar as to objective facts. Which puts everything else the attorney and his client says or does under greater scrutiny.

In the minds of some jurors, lying about a fair number of easily proven small things adds up.
Many thanks, Pompeed. :bighug:

At least two defendants, Ammon and cRyan, are certain to take the stand. But they won't admit to the correct facts, no matter how substantiated "by the documentary record" those facts might be.

But what about the ethics of a lawyer knowingly presenting false info to the jury? Is it even frowned upon? After seeing Mumpoot in action in Oregon, I find it easy to believe that defense attorneys can lie their asses off in court and there is no penalty. [Woops. I just remembered: Mumpoot is in a deal of trouble. But not for lying.]



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Re: Bundy Ranch Trial #2--The Big One: Cliven, Ammon, cRyan, Ryan Payne, Pete Santilli

#700

Post by scirreeve » Wed Nov 15, 2017 1:38 am

Racist Roots filed something or other that will free the Bundiots.
Big News! Attorney Robert O. Kurth and I have filed a "Rule 60(b)" motion to vacate and set aside the court orders in Cliven Bundy's 1998 civil case. That case ended in summary judgment in 2013, leading to the BLM's attempts to round up Cliven's cattle in 2014. (We all know how that turned out.)



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