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PostPosted: Wed Sep 26, 2012 2:44 pm 
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For our oBOTGs only, to update hair, makeup, dark circles, PHV, etc.

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PostPosted: Wed Sep 26, 2012 3:21 pm 
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From the Indian Smackdown thread...

by GreatGrey » Wed Sep 26, 2012 12:10 pm
1:34pm
judge says 1 hour since no one requested extra time. Heard PHV and Prelim injunction.

Orly went right into the preliminary injunction the defense team stopped her and said let's get PHV out-of-the-way first Judge Reid said that makes sense

Kate on the defense team basically read their opposition motion. Orly countered said that she had not been notified of this motion because she was in Mississipp,i they didn't give her time Judge Reid said tuff titties, they send it to your sponsoring attorney in time.

Reid Granted PHV on condition that Orly make zero furtherr mistakes regarding the rules, listed many already committed.

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PostPosted: Wed Sep 26, 2012 3:23 pm 
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From the Indiana Smackdown thread...

by GreatGrey » Wed Sep 26, 2012 12:13 pm
Sorry, raining and trying to get back to hotel.

The preliminary injunction was denied the judges reasoning was that Orly had not presented any evidence had not met burden of proof.

Orly at that point tried to submit her second amended motion as evidence the judge said no that's not the way we do things here.

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PostPosted: Wed Sep 26, 2012 4:42 pm 
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Bumping for BOG FOLKS TO USE...

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PostPosted: Wed Sep 26, 2012 4:45 pm 
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by GreatGrey » Wed Sep 26, 2012 12:41 pm
Smallish room. Lena on the wrong side AGAIN.

4 rows of seats, 24 Lena Suppostoireis Supporters there when I entered, different faces but the same folks as were in Jackson. Only a bit more animated, not sleeping as much.

The $5 Lena dress bet was won by ... ME. Same outffit.

Present were Lena and Black. For Def was Ken Joel, Kate Shelby, and Jeff Garn. Kate & Jeff are young, too young to be doing this. Joel looks like Sam Begley.

Just a couple of more quick things. We wondered about "exhibit 1" in the docs I got this morning. The clerks office had attached it to Black's opposition to PHV. As it turned out, it was supposed to be Defendants Exhibit A. Defendants tried to enter it in evidence, Orly said she didn't have a copy. Judge Reid said she would get one before leaving today, and then....

Rejected the Indiana Election Certificate because it wasn't certified and there was no one present who could vouch for it's authenticity!
"What's it like being an atheist? It's like being the only sober person in a car full of drunks, and they refuse to let you drive." Thomas Jefferson

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PostPosted: Wed Sep 26, 2012 4:47 pm 
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by GreatGrey » Wed Sep 26, 2012 12:45 pm
Orly brought up HAVA, Kern objected after a couple of minutes. He fumbled around but eventually landed on it didn't apply, and Orly was misrepresenting the law.

Reid agreed.

At this point Kern missed a golden opportunity. It was just 35 minutes after Reid had laid out her zero tolerance policy to Orly, and here she was misrepresenting the law. Kern should have jumped on that and gotten the PHV revoked.

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PostPosted: Wed Sep 26, 2012 5:55 pm 
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Ok, I'll try now to get things more in order. Like Jackson today happened in two parts.

Judge Reid came in at 1:34pm. My initial impression was "oh lordy!" Reid relishes being the judge. Down in Jackson, Wingagte told everyone to take a seat just as soon as he entered the room. Reid on the other hand takes her place and takes in the scene, I almost expected a Sally Field "you really like me" moment. After about 20 seconds she finally asked us to sit.

Reid gave the gaggle the rules of the room, no electronics on and no cameras. (just before she entered a Lenaroid was taking pics and the bailiff had a foul look on his face. Bailiff went back to chambers, I'm sure he let Reid know what was going on.)

Two issues: PHV and the Prelim Injunction. Said the trial rules would apply and she expected everyone to know what those were.

Began with Orly. OT dived immediately into why Obama should be removed from the Indiana ballot. Mentioned the Connecticut SSN and forged BC. Claimed his real name was Soebarka and he was a citizen of Indonesia.

Kate Shelby objected, said we should deal with PHV first before we let Orly ramble on. Judge Reid agreed.

So, Orly said you (Reid) gave me PHV earlier, they want you to reverse yourself.

Reid: I know this, so?

OT: I wasn't served, I was in Mississippi, I got no notice, or 1 day notice, on the state challenging my PHV, that's not fair. AG Garn is just being mean to me. I have PHV in the Indiana Supreme Court, that should flow down to this dinky court. Even without PHV I should be allowed to present evidence. Garn is protecting the President, he (Garn) isn't doing his job by prosecuting Obama. I spent lotsa money to get here.

Reid: Hold on sister, you can't make allegations like that about defense counsel in here. Mr Black, did you get the State's challenge?

Black: Well, yea I did. It came in on a fax and I don't remember what night it was (Maker's Mark Amnesia)

Reid then instructed Orly on what the purpose of Local Counsel was all about, serving him was equal to serving Orly.

Kate Shelby then presented the states reasons for requesting denial. She pretty much just powerpointed the objection document. Then read off a list of documents etc improperly filed by OT.

Then a surprise. Kate told that Orly had improperly contacted the defense counsel, which are now also defendants, both thru phone calls and email.

Orly: But, but...

Reid: STOP Ms. Taitz

Kate: more violations of IN law regarding improper contact. Plaintiff's have bugged us incessantly.

Orly: "She's lying, that's total distortion....

Reid: STOP. I won't hear that defamation of opposition counsel. Cites Rule 11

Orly: admits she sent emails, but says it wasn't in her role as plaintiff in current case, she was being nice and letting Defendants know she was gonna file another case re: the general election, because the Election's Commission wasn't answering her anymore. Then went on again about how she never got the state's objection, Reid reminded her again that Black got it.

Orly: Well I should have been given 21 days to respond.

Reid: No, you don't get 21 days. "You're not very well versed in the law." Sometimes you just get 15, sometimes less.

Orly: I'd like to move on to next issue...

Reid: No, we're dealing with PHV

Orly: something about how it was Black's fault, I should be given time...

Reid: STOP

Reid then ruled against the State's opposition with the admonishment that Orly and Black be in 100% compliance with the rules from now on. Any deviation would result in revocation. Lecture time to Orly: you aren't a very good attorney, you don't comply with the rules, and you disrespect Indiana. Lecture to Black: You have responsibilities as sponsor, you haven't met them. From 2pm today I will not tolerate any mistakes.

And that was PHV.

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PostPosted: Wed Sep 26, 2012 6:59 pm 
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Part 2 Preliminary Injunction

After Reid got done with the PHV stuff, it was 2pm, and was going to be done by 2:30. She said she would split the time equally.

Orly: Defendants cheated again. I got their response on Monday, I had to stay up at night to read it. They had 3 weeks, why didn't they do it sooner. (Jackson time whining, but reversed) She then asked for Obama to be removed from the ballot or for the court to reject the certification of the election until Obama proved he wasn't committing fraud. (How do ya do that? Aint Obly suppose to prove that he is? )

She then cited the case before Susan Wright in GA, another one by Judge Lewis in Florida. She said in Barnett v Obama Judge Carter said you have to challenge before the election and that's what she was trying to do. Next she ran thru a whole list of Indiana statutes (13-3-somethings that Loh will have), and tried to cite the Indiana removal rules.

That devolved into HAVA, and how Indiana wasn't responding. There were some grunts from the 'roids, I guess some of them have filed HAVA's also.

Jeff Garn objected, said correctly that HAVA wasn't applicable and that Lena was misstating the law.

Orly: "But it does apply!"

Amazingly, Reid overruled the objection. She then told Lena that she had 4 minutes of her 15 left.

Black chimed in and said Orly should get an extra 5 minutes because during the PHV portion Kate had gone "on and on." Reid kinda said OK, and that Orly could go till 2:20.

Orly resumed, claiming there was a strong likelihood that she would prevail in trial, so the injunction should be granted. More rules. "His name is wrong, it's Soebarka, and Indiana is a state that says you can't run under a fake name. I have a witness (Chris Strunk) who drove down from New York to testify about what he found in Hawaii. I have Obama's school registration from Indonesia, I have Arpiao's stuffs. I have 90 radio stations waiting on a decision.

"I want a temporary injunction so I can get discovery and determine....

Reid: STOP!

Garn got up to counter, and it was herp derp derp. Sorry, he's just not a trial guy. He fumbled around, tried to get things together and eventually Reid stopped him.

Reid: I think what you're getting at is Taitz lost with the EC, she appealed that and lost, and is now here trying to make an end run around the EC's ruling.

Garn: Yea, that's it! We have unverified documents from Taitz, she hasn't moved to submit anything as evidence, she's brought nothing new since the EC met. Estoppel (sp?) got mentioned, there is no need to re-litigate what's already been heard, she hasn't got standing since shes a non-resident, and she misrepresents HAVA.

Reid: Well then, what recourse does an ordinary citizen have?

Garn: Um... it's a Federal issue. (Loud grumbles from the 'roids)

Reid: I didn't frame my question right, let me try again, how can a citizen get someone removed from the ballot.

Garn: It's still a fed issue....

Reid: Thru what mechanism?

Kate interruped Garn and took over. She cited a challenge to Sen Lugar ( I know nothing about that, Loh will have to 'splain)

Kate then wrapped up with OT has no evidence, and we'd like to introduce the cert from the Election Commission. (came as Exhibit 1 in the stuff I got this morning)

Orly objected, said the certificate was based on the Obama fraud.

Reid took it as Exhibit A, there weren't enough copies for everyone. Reid told Orly she would get one later, but then rejected it as evidence based on authenticity.

Orly now realized, hell she had been told by Defense, that she hadn't presented evidence. So she tried to now get Strunk to testify, he's driven such a long way.

Reid: Nope, you don't get to introduce evidence or testimony in rebuttal. Have you ever been in court before?

Black: I'd like you to take judicial notice of our 2nd amended complaint.

Reid: you can't do that either, you're trying to introduce evidence thru notice. You guys made a choice not to produce any evidence during your time, tough titties.

Time was now 2:44, and Reid was going to rule.

Reid: Orly, you're really bad at this. I can't grant you and injunction because you gave me no evidence why I should. All you gave was argument. Plaintiff had the burden, failed. All she gave was argument. There are rules to be followed, you don't seem capable of following them, and all this is you trying to go around them.

Reid: Because Orly isn't from Indiana, she has no standing as plaintiff. But her clients do. (didn't make any ruling, but got frowny faced)

2:50pm Injunction denied. Orly and Black ("and you better had been taking good notes") are to write up decision and have it to Reid in 10 days. Black asks if it needs his signature.

Orly: I have new stuff.....

Reid: "Read the rules, I'm not hearing anything more, there are procedures... SKOOL TIME

Orly asked for trial date, expedited please.

Reid" There are procedures, I'm not going to pull a date out of the air right now.

Then came 2 or 3 minutes of lecturing Orly about now that she has PHV she has to follow Indiana rules as set by Indiana Supreme Court. Told her again to read the rules.

Edit: Here Orly got a very stern warning about not having any contact with the defendants. That's what led to the bits about being disciplined.


(at this point, I had a clear view of Reid, the line of sight went from Reid thru Orly to me. I silently mouthed "SANCTIONS", and Reid saw it cuz the next thing Reid said was ...)

"That includes disciplinary actions against you, perhaps for events from today."

And that was Prelim Injunction.

Edit: It was when she was trying to get Strunk on the stand she also tried to get Aripiao's daffydavit in.

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PostPosted: Wed Sep 26, 2012 7:00 pm 
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I woke up late, as I had forgotten to set my alarm, and then proceeded to dawdle around reading PMs on The Fogbow until I was even later, so I didn't arrive in town until 12:15, about 15 minutes after I had planned on arriving. Then I somehow managed to get lost on a walk from the parking garage to the City-County building, which happens to be a straight line on the same street. I met GreatGrey at the Subway catty-corner from the City-County Building on 200 E. Washington St., where we had a quick sandwich. Thanks for buying me a sandwich, GG. I cleverly left my iPhone in the restroom of the Subway, so after clearing security, had to go back and retrieve it.

I am glad that Sugar Magnolia was not there to do a fashion report, because my hair looks like it was cut with a buzz saw and I had terrible eyebrow dandruff.

I wore a black Brooks Brothers suit with a dark tie with small pink dots on it, a blue and white striped shirt with French cuffs, a "scales of Justice" tie clip, and unfashionable wire-frame glasses, which are all I have since I sat on my Ermenegildo Zegna black framed glasses.

I incorporate by reference Sugar Magnolia's fashion report on Orly. She wore the same "black lawyer suit" she usually wears, and while her hair did not quite look as if styled by an egg beater this time, it somehow became more disheveled during the hearing, and was kind of a rat's nest by the end of the hearing. Since there was no heavy wind in the courtroom, I assume that somehow, the crazy leaks out and disorders her hair.

At the defense table, from left to right as viewed from behind, were Senior Deputy Attorney General Kenneth L. Joel, and Deputy Attorneys General Kate Shelby and Jefferson Garn. Mr. Joel made no arguments during the hearing, but was representing DAGs Shelby and Garn. I believe his presence was partly for moral support, and partly to emphasize to Judge Reid how many man-hours and taxpayer dollars this frivolous lawsuit is wasting.

As a preliminary matter, I commend the manner in which DAGs Shelby and Garn conducted themselves at the hearing. They displayed professionalism and competence, and unlike many co-counsel, worked together very well and smoothly handed off argument to each other when one was more well-versed than another with a particular aspect of the case.

At the plaintiffs' counsel table, again from left to right, were Orly and Black. Black seemed familiar with both Judge Reid and defense counsel, and they exchanged a few words in a seemingly cordial and collegial manner. There does not seem to be any animosity between Black and defense counsel. It seems to me that Black regularly practices before the Superior Court. Orly adding them as defendants for nothing more than doing their job is the pathetic and despicable act of a vexatious litigant.

Behind counsel table were the plaintiffs. From left to right, there was Kesler, then an individual I did not recognize, who did not identify himself, wearing a green shirt, Weyl, Swihart and Ripley, who I believe is a new plaintiff, in what appeared to be a wheelchair. I may be incorrect about that, and the person in a wheelchair may not have identified herself.

An idiot, who I assume was a birther, was taking photographs with a cell phone camera with some kind of enhanced camera accessory, and otherwise aiming the cell phone camera around. I could see the bailiff looking balefully at him, and when I caught his eye briefly, looked over at the birther and raised a single eyebrow. Shortly afterward, the bailiff went out the back door into Judge Reid's office.

At around 1:30, give or take a minute, the "all rise" announcement let us know Judge Reid was entering the courtroom. She strode to the bench, and after a brief pause, said "Please be seated."

She then began the hearing with a few preliminary matters, including discussing which motions were on the table. They were Orly's "emergency" motion for a preliminary injunction, and the State defendants' motion to reconsider granting Orly's pro hac vice admission. The argument on the papers was fairly simple, that being that the State defendants were never served with these documents as the rules require, and that the initial denial of her status was due to rules violations. Having continued to violate the rules, she should not have been rewarded for this misconduct by admission.

Judge Reid states that the hearing is scheduled for only one hour, because nobody filed a motion asking for more time, as the local rules allow. Considering this, she states she will enforce the one hour limit strictly. At around 1:40, Judge Reid announces that the hearing has now begun. Surprisingly, she expresses no preference about whether the motion for reconsideration of PHV or the injunction is to be heard first, although it seemed fairly obvious to me that the PHV motion should have been heard first.

Orly begins arguing her preliminary injunction, well, actually, starts launching into her usual screech about Connecticut Social Security numbers, identity theft, and so on. She complains that she has had to fly around the country spending her own money (as if presumably she should be allowed to spend other people's money instead). Orly does not get far into her thickly-accented screech before Ms. Shelby objects. Her argument is that since the PHV motion concerns whether Orly is even allowed to participate in the hearing at all in a representational capacity, that motion should be decided first.

Thinking about this, Judge Reid decides that this makes sense, and moves to hear the pro hac vice matter first. Ms. Shelby makes a number of arguments, largely from the State's motion, also noting that while Orly's motion was allegedly filed August 28, the AG's office did not receive the motion, and only became aware of it when it received the court's order granting PHV status. The AG cited Rule 5(B) and Rule 5(C), governing the necessity of service and requirement of a certificate of service. While Orly included a certificate of service, it was not cosigned by Black, local counsel, who was required to do so by the PHV rules.

Then, Ms. Shelby continued with another argument against the Orly's PHV admission, that is, that she violated the professional rules. She contacted two members of the Election Commission, who she knew were represented by counsel, in violation of the ethical rules, including threats of further litigation. The two members were J. Bradley King, a Republican member, and Trent Deckard, a Democratic member.

Essentially, the argument goes, Orly continues breaking the rules and the court should reconsider granting PHV.

At about 1:50, the State concludes its argument, and Orly begins screeching.

Right out of the gate, Orly accuses Ms. Shelby of "complete dishonesty." Judge Reid immediately interrupts her and delivers a series of stinging rebukes, stating that if Orly wants to accuse opposing counsel of dishonesty, she had best have some actual evidence and not a naked accusation. She states the court will not tolerate this kind of conduct, and cites Orly's Rule 11 obligation not to advance such baseless attacks against opposing counsel. Judge asks Orly if she understands what she just said, and Orly meekly says yes.

Orly then launches into another blunder, stating that she never got the opposition to her pro hac vice motion, and that she had 21 days to respond, and again, Judge Reid interrupts her in the middle of the sentence. Judge Reid informs her that she has just completely misstated the law, and that the period would be 15 days. She then states that Orly is clearly not "well-versed" in the Local Rules. She states that this appears to be a big problem with Orly.

Orly's also argues that PHV admission is a purely administrative matter and does not require notice to the other side. Further, there was no misconduct in contacting the defendants, because it was concerning another election matter, the general election, and not this case, which is about the primary ballot.

Orly again complains she never received the opposition, that it was only sent on Monday, when she was in Mississippi, and continues whining on at some length. Judge Reid asks Black if he received a copy of the opposition. Black says yes, he did. Judge Reid explains that this is the point of having local counsel. Orly complains some more, and Judge Reid cuts her off, and informs her that if local counsel had the paper, she did. Period.

After a bit more screeching, Judge Reid cuts her off in the middle of a sentence, saying that she has to move the hearing along, that she asked for a concise argument and didn't get it. She then rules from the bench and denies the motion to reconsider. Provided, however, she continues, that from now on, there will be absolute compliance with Indiana trial rules, the Local Rules and Indiana law.

She states that it is quite evident that Orly is not familiar with the laws, rules and procedures of Indiana, and that she has "grave concerns" about her competence to follow these rules. She then moves onto Black, upbraiding him for failing to cosign papers, and informing him that he has obligations to follow the rules as well, and has not lived up to them. She states both to Orly and Black that this is your warning, and underlines that the time and date are 2:00, September 26.

She then states that in the event of any further rules violations, she will entertain a motion to dismiss, apparently as a sanction. She states that the rules violations to date have been blatant. She states that she insists the defendants comply with the rule, and that she will also insist the plaintiffs do so.

Judge Reid specifically complains of the practice of plaintiffs filing papers without a distribution list or certificates of service, and that in the future, every such document will be rejected. She notes that this is the second warning she has issued on this issue, and will be the last.

At about 2:05, Orly begins her argument for a preliminary injunction. Well, that's what she was supposed to do instead. She never really did. Instead, she basically ranted about her case in chief. On the first occasion she attempted to discuss it, she misstated it. She stated the standard was "hardship," prompting an immediate interruption from Judge Reid, who informed her that she was clearly unfamiliar with the law.

For a change, she cites a few cases, none of which had to do with the standard for preliminary injunctive relief, one involving Judge Susan Wright, who is I believe a judge in Georgia, not Judge Susan Webber Wright of the federal bench. The proposition is that a challenge is not ripe until nomination. She also cites a Judge Lewis in Florida, I believe for the same proposition.

Therefore, there is a very short time window in which a challenge against a candidate is possible.

Orly then argues that state courts do have jurisdiction to strike an ineligible candidate from the ballot, citing the California Supreme Court case Cleaver v. Jordan, in which Eldridge Cleaver, only 34 years old, was clearly ineligible under Article II.

She also states that she should not have to exhaust administratively, and that in the case of Evan Bayh, Bayh skipped the administrative step completely and obtained relief from a court. She cites a number of laws, surprisingly, including Ind. Code § 3-13-2-1, Ind. Code § 3-13-2-9, Ind. Code § 3-13-2-11, and another which is illegible from my notes, reading a section into the record.

I wrote in my notes at this point that Orly has not said a word remotely relevant to the standard for granting a preliminary injunction.

At about 2:14, Orly then begins going off on a tangent about completely irrelevant statutes like the Help America Vote Act ("HAVA") (which creates no private cause of action in any event) and the National Voter Rights Act ("NVRA").

Ms. Shelby objects to arguments about federal laws that have no relevance whatsoever to the case, are not cited in the complaint, and have nothing to do with Indiana ballots. After about two minutes of argument on this subject, Judge Reid overrules the objection. Black asks for more time because Ms. Shelby's "soliloquy" has consumed about two minutes.

Judge Reid notes that there are only about four minutes left, and that Orly has not yet made any argument about the standard for preliminary injunction. Orly finally makes a half-hearted stab at actually discussing the standard for preliminary injunction. She states that there are four factors, the first of which is the likelihood of success. She makes the mind-bogglingly idiotic statement that the chance of success is 100 percent, because obviously Obama is a usurpering usurperator and she's therefore guaranteed to win. His name is "Soebarkah" for crying out loud, based on a bunch of stuff that has never been admitted as evidence.

She then states that she has a witness with her, who turns out to be the notorious Christopher-Earl: Strunk in esse! She complains that he has had to fly out to Indiana twice in this matter and has not been allowed to testify. She has Strunk stand up to identify himself, though he doesn't say anything. He is a disheveled looking fellow with short-cropped salt and pepper hair, wearing a suit a shade or two less blue than navy blue, which has apparently not encountered a dry cleaner since the first Clinton Administration. He wears a blue tie with a pattern of purple rectangles on it, similarly wrinkled as if it has been at the bottom of a laundry hamper for a year.

Now, at 2:20, the ball is in the defendants' court. Mr. Garn argues that the evidence cited by Orly should be stricken, because it is not properly in the record. Judge Reid states that, in fact, no evidence at all has been presented, so there is nothing to strike. Mr. Garn also notes for the record that while he and Ms. Shelby are present as counsel, they have also been frivolously named as defendants by Orly. He states that this is unacceptable conduct that is "beyond the pale."

Judge Reid asks if the amended complaint has any separate complaints and allegations against Mr. Garn and Ms. Shelby. To the extent it does, these matters should be addressed at another hearing. This hearing is almost out of time.

The State continues arguing, with Ms. Shelby and Mr. Garn alternating. I would estimate that Ms. Shelby probably did around 60% or so of the arguing, and may have been acting as first chair, but they were so smooth at swapping off argument that I can't really be sure. The argument is essentially, that the plaintiffs utterly failed to meet their burden of production. Alternate grounds for dismissal, though, are that this is basically exactly the same case as the previous dismissed case, and that Orly is basically just dressing up the dead horse as another case.

During this part of the defendants' argument, Orly is sitting with a hand on her cheek, alternately glaring at whoever is arguing at the time, while occasionally making childish faces or staring, mouth agape, as if trying to catch flies.

I will also note that at numerous times during argument, Orly would try to interrupt, and Judge Reid would shut her down with a curt hand gesture that looked like an angry nun slapping a child's hand. She did not successfully interrupt at any time, but I have not noted the numerous times she did it, since I didn't note exactly when they happened.

At around 2:25, Judge Reid interrupts the State's argument, and basically formulates the State's argument as that Orly is just attempting to do an end-run around the administrative requirements and that this is basically res judicata, although she does not use that phrase directly. Absolutely, agrees Mr. Garn (I believe).

Mr. Garn further argues that there is simply no evidence of record. While Orly randomly attaches all kinds of stuff to motions she files, she has never formally moved to admit them, and simply attaching documents does not effect admission into evidence. Therefore, there being no evidence of record to support the motion, it should be denied.

Further, it's nonjusticiable under 12(b)(1). Indiana voters do not vote for the President directly, but for electors. The eligibility of a sitting President is only subject to decision by Congress, through impeachment or refusing to certify electoral votes. The state only has jurisdiction over state ballot access issues, such as whether the candidate has properly submitted paperwork, has the proper number of petition signatures, and similar things.

At 2:29, the State argues, effectively, that the issue is moot. The Election Commission cannot grant the relief sought. The ballots have already gone out. The Election Commission already made its decision and the dismissal of the previous suit ratified that decision. Effectively, it's a res judicata argument. If not res judicata, collateral estoppel, because the prior dismissed suit decided exactly the same factual issues between the same parties as the current suit. Therefore, the plaintiffs are barred from relitigating these issues. Finally, Orly has no standing. She is a resident of California.

The balance of harms clearly favors the defendants. NVRA and HAVA are completely irrelevant, and Orly either fails to grasp or misstates these laws in any event.

At 2:32, Judge Reid interrupts to ask what remedy a voter has if there is an ineligible Presidential candidate. Mr. Garn states that the remedy is federal.

At this point, there is a hubbub of disgruntled birfers disrupting the proceeding. This does not prompt the court to demand order, but this dies down very quickly.

Mr. Garn continues to argue that any jurisdiction over a Presidential candidate is a federal matter, either through impeachment or otherwise. This is a matter for the electors of the Electoral College or Congress. Kern is angrily shaking his head throughout this.

Orly raises her hand and, again, Judge Reid makes the smackdown gesture at her.

Mr. Garn then concludes, basically reiterating that the State's main argument is that the plaintiffs have utterly failed to meet the burden of proof, and in fact, have produced no evidence whatsoever. If not, though, there are a number of other reasons to deny the motion.

Ms. Shelby then seeks to admit the Election Commission's certification (attached to one of the documents) as an exhibit, marking it as Exhibit A. There is brief confusion as to whether they have enough copies to provide them to opposing counsel, and at first, they believe they do not, and withdraw the request. Having found they did, in fact, have copies, they then renew the attempt to admit the evidence as a business record.

Judge Reid asks if there are any objections, and Orly objects. Judge Reid asks Orly for her argument, based on the rules of evidence, that the document should be be admitted. Orly, for a change making an actual evidentiary objection, argues the document is not certified. Further, the document was obtained by fraud and forgery, and screech.

Judge Reid interrupts, stating that she only wants an evidentiary basis for excluding the document.

The State rebuts briefly, again citing the business record exception.

The State, at some point during this, offers to present a witness to testify as to the certification.

Judge Reid sustains the objection, on the grounds that the document is not certified, there is no affidavit from a relevant person, and therefore, it is not admitted. She states that the current hearing is governed by trial rules, and that even though it is not yet a full trial, it is still an evidentiary hearing.

At 2:40, Judge Reid gives Orly four minutes.

Orly again accuses Ms. Shelby of misstating the law. She cites a case, Fulani v. Hogsett, amazingly, correctly citing it as 917 F.2d 1028 (7th Cir. 1990). She also cites the Strunk affidavit, which I have not seen. She complains that Strunk has had to fly out to Indiana twice and has not been permitted to testify.

Black then makes the rather extraordinary argument that the court should take judicial notice of the Second Amended Complaint and the material attached to it. He cited Rule 201, relating to judicial notice. I honestly could not make head or tail of this argument.

Judge Reid then closes the evidentiary part of the hearing and moves on to a ruling, noting that there is zero evidence of record, and that all Orly has presented is arguments. She notes that the arguments were "valid," which I find somewhat perturbing.

Orly stands up again and begins to launch into something, but Judge Reid says "Too late, Ms. Taitz." Then, as if speaking to a bad dog, "SIT!"

Judge Reid continues that it is very clear that the plaintiffs have totally failed to meet their burden, and makes a variety of other arguments. GG believed during this part of the hearing that it seemed as if she actually wanted to grant the motion. Again, at another point, Orly stood up and was told "Please be seated."

Judge Reid again commented that the plaintiffs had utterly, totally failed to meet their burden, failing to present any evidence at all. It is clear, Judge Reid continued, that Orly is completely unfamiliar with any of the rules, procedures, or laws of Indiana, and that if she were well-versed in these, she would have done a better job representing the plaintiffs. She notes that plaintiffs' counsel will have the obligation to write the order, so they had "better take good notes." I note that neither Orly nor Black appeared to be taking any notes at all. I suppose I might have missed it, paying more attention to Judge Reid.

Judge Reid continued, stating that the court's hands were totally tied, as there was no evidence whatsoever.

The ruling continued in this vein for some time, largely reiterating these points and castigating Orly's failure to present any evidence or otherwise comply with the rules.

She then stated the standard for granting a preliminary injunction was based on likelihood of success on the merits as well as irreparable harm to the moving party. While Orly may have presented "valid arguments," she presented no evidence.

She then reiterated the reasoning for dismissing the previous case, which is that plaintiffs utterly failed to follow the rules, such as by failing to file the administrative record.

The court must apply the law. Judge Reid took an oath to uphold the law.

Now the case has come "full circle," and is essentially the same as the last case in any event.

Orly, specifically, probably does not have standing, since she is not an Indiana voter and suffers no harm from who is on an Indiana ballot, but since there are other plaintiffs who do have standing, she won't issue a "definitive ruling" on that subject yet.

She then orders Orly and Black to write the order denying the injunction within 10 days.

She again warns that there must in the future be absolute compliance with all rules, or she will entertain a motion to dismiss.

Mr. Garn concludes briefly with a summation, during which he states that the evidence was not persuasive. Judge Reid interrupts to point out that, in fact, there was no evidence.

Orly then states she has a few "short motions." She demands an expedited trial date, and states that she has a new claim relating to the general election, as the Election Commission has denied the plaintiffs' challenge to the general election.

Judge Reid abruptly interrupts her and curtly informs her that every single thing she has just said and question she has asked is covered by a rule, and that she should consult the rules. If she doesn't know them, she can confer with Black, who is local counsel and who has practiced before the court for a long time and knows the rules. She basically states that Orly is wasting the time of the court with matters that she should already know how to handle.

She points out that she doesn't just pull a trial date out of a hat, but that this occurs only after a case management order and the conclusion of discovery, and upon agreement by the parties.

"So sorry to tell you," Reid continues, but basically, Orly doesn't know the rules and is asking for the impossible.

Further, Orly is not to contact anyone on the other side who has counsel in this case, but is to go only through counsel. Judge Reid asks Orly "Do you understand?" Orly meekly says she does. Judge Reid says this misconduct is "serious stuff" and could subject her to disciplinary action. She informs Orly that the Supreme Court of Indiana, because of her admission pro hac vice, now has jurisdiction over her and can discipline her. Judge Reid says "I'm sure I sound harsh, but" basically, this is for Orly's own good.

Judge Reid excuses Mr. Black, who has to be at another hearing.

Almost immediately thereafter, Judge Reid closes the hearing. GG and I do not stick around to eavesdrop on Orly.

I head back to the parking garage, where I once again manage to get lost and find myself 20 minutes later back at the City-County Building. On a do-over, I finally walk by the right parking garage, and realize that the route was actually a straight line all along. So I managed to get lost twice walking in a straight line all on the same street.

Then I drove home and wrote this report.

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PostPosted: Wed Sep 26, 2012 7:48 pm 
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Oh, the boots, they were Blundstone 550's, for Rajah.

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PostPosted: Mon Oct 22, 2012 11:00 am 
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Can we use this for round two?

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PostPosted: Mon Oct 22, 2012 5:08 pm 
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I'm just going to post this in parts, because as a three hour hearing, even summarizing more than I usually do, it is not going to be done for a while. Here's Part One.

[EDIT: Adding this as an edit since it's somewhat important and leaving it at top. At one point, with relation to the Second Amended Complaint, plaintiffs (Black in particular) cited paragraphs 13-16, 28-34, 45-46, 57-58, 61-64, 69, 92 & 34 as reasons for relief, as to the irreparable harm of a denied election challenge after the election, and cited Rule 201(a) and (b). This in relation to the argument against the Motion to Dismiss and possibly the other motion I haven't seen to vacate.]

---

I arrived about 10 minutes late and missed the preliminaries of the dumbest legal proceeding I have ever attended.

The first items on the agenda were a Motion to Dismiss (which we have seen) and another motion, which I believe was described as a Motion to Vacate Trial and Dismiss Jurisdiction.

DAG Joel was first chair this time and aggressively pursued clients interests. He started with the procedural history, which is convoluted enough and already known enough I won't recount it here again. Only Jefferson Garn was present as second chair, and assisted during the hearing with citations and other legal research, but did not argue directly to the court.

Judge Reid stated at the outset, at around 10:10 a.m., that both sides would be allowed approximately an hour to present their cases. Both the Motion to Dismiss and Motion to Vacate were direct challenges to the jurisdiction of the court to hear the case.

Among other arguments were that the "permanent injunction" claim was not a cause of action but a remedy, and one to which the plaintiffs are not entitled. As for the request for declaratory judgment, Joel noted the utter absence of any reference to the Declaratory Judgment Act. Therefore, there was no real need to have a trial on anything.

At about 10:17, Orly argued that this was now about the general election and not the primary election (despite there being no operative pleading whatsoever even mentioning the general election). She once again complained that the IEC did not here the plaintiffs' new complaint to the general election, cited the Election Board v. Bayh case for the proposition that she could just ignore the rules and immediately bring any kind of election challenge without exhausting (which the case does not say) and complaint that nobody has heard her HAVA claims (which is a federal statute that creates no private cause of action). She cited a number of statutes including IC 3-18-1-16, 3-5-7-4. Orly also again cited the Fulani case. Fulani v. Hogsett, 917 F.2d 1028 (7th Cir. 1991), though she got the year wrong as 1990. It was heard in 1990 but decided in 1991.

Joel countered with a number of arguments, including that Fulani concerned the standing of a candidate on the ballot to challenge the eligibility of another candidate, a distinction Orly has been pathologically incapable of understanding. Joel also pointed out that no challenge has been made to the general election results in any of the operative pleadings. Further I.C. 3-8-1-2(d)(3) points out there is no need for the Election Commission to have a hearing when the "challenge would be based on substantially the same grounds as the previous challenge to the candidate." In other words, they already lost on the eligibility argument.

Judge Reid wonders whether Joel is arguing as to the Motion to Dismiss or the Motion to Vacate. Joel points out there is necessary certain overlap, that he has much more argument related to the Motion to Dismiss, but that he is currently arguing the Motion to Vacate. Judge Reid gives Orly the last word on the Motion to Vacate issue. Orly starts whining that she has gone to "enormous expense" to create this mess, whines again about poor Strunk in esse, then proceeds to complain that the defendants filed their motion to dismiss the day before Judge Reid's order to expand time gave them.

Joel starts moving into the Motion to Dismiss

Joel also notes, again, the numerous flagrant rules violations and pleading deficiencies of plaintiffs and the Moldovan Madwoman, noting that at the last hearing, Judge Reid had stated that further rules violations would be subject to dismissal. Joel then notes that despite that, virtually every pleading filed since then has been in violation of the rules. In fact, the Second Amended Complaint, in which plaintiffs were permitted only to allege three common law torts, added new causes of action, a plaintiff the court had specifically denied leave to intervene, and defendants.

Joel asks at one point: "How many times must they [the plaintiffs] flout the rules of this court before this case is put to rest?"

He reiterates the collateral estoppel and res judicata issues that have been previously discussed. He also points out that none of the tort claims the plaintiffs were permitted to raise in their amended complaint allow mandatory injunctions.

Further, against the state defendants, there was no Tort Claim Action notice. (My own parenthetical gloss: Incidentally, this is sufficient, just by itself, to deprive the court of jurisdiction to hear the claim. In fact, the issue is not merely lack of subject-matter jurisdiction but absolute immunity to prosecution. The immunity is destroyed by having to stand trial, and constitutes a right not to have to stand trial, not merely to have a case dismissed.)

Every single state defendant, and certainly Jefferson Garn and Kate Shelby, are covered by one or more than one absolute immunity doctrine.

Joel further notes that even absent the dispositive immunity issues, the merits of the tort claims themselves require "some reasonable factual basis." There is no reasonable basis for suing the attorneys for their state for doing their exact job, which in this case is defending actions brought against this state. The IEC is also veiled in judicial immunity for its discretionary decisions.

"This isn't Alice in Wonderland. Simply saying something is so does not make it so." Joel is certainly echoing Judge Land.

Joel ties up a couple loose ends that are pretty obvious. For example, obviously none of the plaintiffs have a private cause of action for what they allege to be crimes.

Judge Reid then asks about declaratory judgment and injunctive relief and asks Joel why either one should lie. Joel again points out that injunctive relief is not a cause of action (as many people here noted) and that there is an abject failure to plead a cause of action for declaratory relief.

Joel, at this point, cites Robinson v. Bowen, 567 F. Supp. 2d 1144 (N.D. Cal. 2008), which dismissed a challenge by a Keyes elector to McCain's eligibility.

At 10:51, Judge Reid asks Orly if she has any case to the contrary. Orly attempts to cite an unpublished, nonprecedential case I missed, only to be told it was not precedent. She then attempts to make an argument of some sort about Fulani, and finishes by citing, you guessed it, an unpublished, nonprecedential administrative law case, the one we know from the circus ALJ Malihi held in it. Orly also cites Apuzzo's Purpura case, another loser. Orly whines that half the time is gone.

Black jumps in to try to make some arguments, noting that the trial court has jurisdiction because the constitution says the courts have "original jurisdiction of all civil cases."

Black states that what the plaintiffs will prove if allowed is that President Obama's birth certificate is a forgery and he is an ineligible candidate. He states that the complaint is in the nature of a writ of mandamus.

Judge Reid appears to want to wind down the discussion of the motions. Joel makes one final argument on behalf of the defendants in response to the new statement by Black about mandamus, noting that it applies only to mandatory ministerial acts, and not acts within the discretion of the state agency.

Black offers an "evidentiary brief" of some sort. Judge Reid notes that it is more appropriate to the declaratory judgment action than the motions, but files and marks it anyway.

Now, Orly offers a motion so ridiculous that even she states in advance she does not want to spend long on it. She demands a "motion for default," on the grounds that the defendants filed their motions on October 18, the day before the court's order, instead of at some other time Orly would have preferred. She then claims the motion to extend time on defendants Shelby and Garn was obtained by "false pretenses" because Shelby claimed only to have been served on some date, I believe September 19. The court notes the summons issued September 13, but Orly claims there was no need for summons, and that she had "served" Garn and Shelby "by certified mail" on September 11.

Since the defendants only filed their motions on October 18, the day before the October 19 deadline set by the court after Orly refused to agree to an extension of time (even though the state defendants were entitled to an automatic 30 day extension according to the Local Rules by the way), they were really magically in default and Orly should automatically win.

Even Orly realizes what a pathetic, drop-dead loser of an argument this is and drops it.

Joel responds to this argument very briefly, pointing out simply the facts I point out in the parentheticals in the last couple paragraphs, as well as that they filed a motion for enlargement of time, it was granted to the date of October 19, and they filed their motions on October 18, the day before.

At 11:06, Judge Reid responds to two motions directly challenging the jurisdiction of the court to hear the "trial," as well as raising issues of absolute immunity that preclude even having a trial, by deciding to take them under "advisement." If you read that as the court decides to hold the trial, and then, some time after that, decide whether it has the jurisdiction to hold the trial, that's exactly what happened.

If you are wondering exactly how ass-backwards that is, well, I have never seen a court expressly refuse to rule on whether it has jurisdiction to hear a case and then go ahead and hear it without deciding that first.

More in Part Two.

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PostPosted: Mon Oct 22, 2012 5:18 pm 
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Thanks.

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PostPosted: Mon Oct 22, 2012 5:24 pm 
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Thanks Loh.


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PostPosted: Mon Oct 22, 2012 5:34 pm 
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Thanks, Loh. Looking forward to the next two parts!

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She [Orly] names Fogbow all the time! How can Fogbow be unnamed if she keeps naming it as unnamed? That's metaphysically absurd, man! - Foggy


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Jeazess H. Kreist. The Filly is right as usual: This court is a few fries short of a Happy Meal. :shock:

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PostPosted: Mon Oct 22, 2012 5:38 pm 
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AHEM
BOOTS ON THE GROUND ONLY!

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PostPosted: Mon Oct 22, 2012 6:12 pm 
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Part Two

It is somewhat murky exactly what is being heard. Judge Reid believes injunctive relief has already been addressed and rejected, as the plaintiffs failed to carry their burden of proof. However, she is allowing the hearing to proceed on the issue of declaratory judgment, which is completely absent from the operative pleadings and for which the plaintiffs pled no facts that would entitle them to such relief.

Orly starts by calling Christopher Earl Strunk as a witness. He does not insist on any hyphens, colons or "in esse" after his name. He also, apparently, has either purchased a new suit or his old one has had its first meeting with a dry cleaner since the Ford Administration, because it looks reasonably unwrinkled.

Joel immediately moves for a separation of witnesses, that is, the right a party has to exclude the non-plainitff witnesses from being present during the testimony of others, a right intended to protect against collusion of witnesses who attempt to conform their testimony to that of prior witnesses. Orly, apparently not understanding what is going on, has everyone, including the plaintiffs, leave, prompting yet another explanation of basic procedures by Judge Reid and the return of the plaintiffs to the courtroom.

Strunk is sworn in, at around 11:11, and is first asked his name. This is the last question he is asked without objection.

Joel first states a continuing objection to the very fact the proceedings are occurring at all, for the obvious reasons.

Strunk is from Brooklyn, New York. Orly wants to introduce his declaration.

Objection, hearsay.

Judge Reid wants more to know if the objection is ripe. It is about Strunk's FOIA request for information about Obama's mother.

Objection, relevance. Overruled for now.

A passport application said "Barack Hussein Obama" and then "Soebarkah" in parentheses. Strunk's case concerning this is ongoing.

Objection, hearsay.

Orly, I believe, calls it "official government records."

Joel objects also that it is not certified and not authenticated.

Black jumps in, the first of many times on these evidentiary issues, and argues it is covered by 803(8) (government reports) and 902(1) no extrinsic evidence needed. Basically, that it's self-authenticating.

Joel argues that the document is not a public document. It's just a letter from some guy.

Black says Strunk is just testifying about what he received. Orly interrupts with something I didn't make out, and Judge Reid asks her if she even understands certification.

Orly asks the defense to stipulate to make all the objections at the end, because we're running out of time and they just keep objecting.

Judge Reid says that's not how it works. It's trial and objections are made and ruled on at the time they are made. She then sets ground rules on who can talk, stating that Black and Orly are "double-teaming" the defendants. From now on, Orly will do the examinations and Black will respond to the evidentiary arguments.

Judge Reid then sustains the objection.

Orly then begins testifying, stating what Strunk has said or is going to say, and Judge Reid says "I don't need testimony from you." Surprisingly, Orly doesn't leap into the witness stand and declare herself a witness. That worked so well for her last time in Georgia.

Orly resumes her direct, this time after Strunk turning his report over so he isn't just reading from it any more, as one of the objections went. Strunk says it's "Sealed in my memory" so he is not just reading from his report. He saw the name "Barack Hussein Obama (Soebarkah)."

Objection, he has no personal knowledge about any of these facts.

Black cites 901(1) again.

Judge Reid wonders whether counsel would stipulate that the document is not certified. She points out it is not certified by the custodian of records with a seal. Orly interrupts and is told to shut up.

Black again cites 902(1) and 803(b).

Judge Reid notices that the parties are arguing about whether a document is admissible, but nobody has even tried to enter it into evidence. She points out that if the document is inadmissible, testimony about the contents of the document for the truth of the matter asserted is also not admissible. Testimony about the document for some other purpose, such as to demonstrate that Strunk had some communication with the government, might be admissible, but it is hard to imagine the relevance of that.

During this point at the argument, as a trivial observation, I notice why Orly's hair gets more disordered as these hearings proceed. I had speculated that her insanity was just seeping out of her head and messing up her hair at the earlier hearing, but the explanation is more mundane. It seems that she does these little petulant hair-flips whenever she's told to shut up or otherwise frustrated in her attempts to screech, and this is what disorders her hair. She should learn to stop doing that. It looks stupid and petulant and messes up her hair. It was reasonably neat at the beginning of the hearing but by now it once again resembles a well-beaten meringue.

As the "evidence" of Strunk is increasingly irrelevant and based on inadmissible hearsay, Joel motions to strike the testimony about the "Soebarkah" nonsense. This is granted.

Black tries to rescue the situation with an offer of proof about a "Jonathan Robin" who is, according to Black (and Strunk's declaration) Director of the Office of Legal Affairs for the relevant agency. Judge Reid asks if the plaintiffs have him here to certify the document. This might be relevant if you had him here, but if not, the court has ruled and we're wasting time.

Black then offers to admit it into evidence as proof Strunk received it.

Judge Reid asks if there are any objections, and of course, there are.

Hearsay and not relevant. Any exhibits attached to it are not certified, it can't be offered for the truth of the matter asserted, and is irrelevant for any other purpose.

Orly then (out of turn) makes an absurd citation to Rule 1003, about duplicates when the originals have already been offered by a party.

Judge Reid said this rule doesn't apply at all. Read the rule.

Sustained.

It is stamped as P-1 but is filed as inadmissible. It may be admissible for other purposes.

Orly then dismisses Strunk, who leaves.

This is before the defense is allowed to cross examine him, and without the permission of the court. Joel says he has no cross examination for Strunk anyway. (Joel had nothing to cross examine Strunk on because everything he was asked was either objected to and sustained or stricken. I believe Strunk's testimony of record consists of the fact that his name is Christopher Earl Strunk and that he is from Brooklyn, New York.)

Judge Reid warns Orly that to dismiss a witness and "usurp" the authority of the court again would be contempt. Then we move on to Felicito Papa.

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PostPosted: Mon Oct 22, 2012 7:13 pm 
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Part Three

Felicito E. Papa takes the stand and is sworn in approximately 11:33, after a stern warning by Judge Reid that it is she, not Orly, who dismisses witnesses and that to "usurp" the court's authority would be contempt of court.

Joel objects again, apologizing for the continuing objection to the proceedings, but feeling that he has to do it to preserve the rights of the state defendants.

Felicito Papa gives his name and starts listing qualifications such as degrees.

Joel objects again, on the grounds this other information is not responsive to a question, but is a monologue. Judge Reid asks Papa to spell his name.

Orly asks him if he downloaded a document from the White House website, referring to an as-yet unidentified document. The first page turns out to be a copy of the document from the White House website, an electronic copy of the COLB.

The other pages of the as-yet unadmitted document turn out to be pictures of the "layers" that birthers use to claim the original paper copy of the COLB is a forgery.

Joel objects to everything past the first page as hearsay, irrelevant, as not being the actual record but something manipulated by the plaintiffs, and inadmissible.

Orly again tries to testify for Papa, who is not saying exactly what she wants, and the objection is leading.

The Judge or Orly ask what Papa used to download the document. Papa says you can download it with any web software, but what he used to examine it was Adobe Illustrator.

Orly asks if this is the layer you got.

Objection, leading.

Then there is an argument about layers mainly by people who don't know what they are. The basic objections are that Papa is not an expert, he has no basis and no foundation for making any conclusion about these "|ayers."

Black begins addressing evidentiary objections by claiming that Hawaii has certified the COLB (it has not certified the copy on the Hawaii website which is all Papa has seen however). Then Black makes the frankly ridiculous claim that the White House is a real party in interest (so why did your plaintiffs not name it bozo?) and that therefore, it should be admitted as a copy of what the White House has already relied on as a real party in interest.

Judge Reid notes that this blather does not address the objections and sustains the objections.

Then the plaintiffs offer to admit the document into evidence, along with the "layers" pages, as P-2.

Joel objects except with respect to the first page, since every other page is something manipulated by Felicito Papa, who is not qualified as an expert. Black cites paragraph 14 of the complaint.

Judge Reid inexplicably admits the entire document as a certified record. Joel asks for clarification as to whether this is just the first page, to which there was no objection, and the "layers" nonsense. Judge Reid clarifies that it is with relation to the entire document, including the Papa-generated "layers" pages.

However, Judge Reid sustains the objections as to Papa's qualifications as an expert and his conclusions about the documents.

Orly begins examining Papa about his qualifications to some degree. Apparently, he has ten years of experience in illustration for websites and other things, and graduated from ITT in Indianapolis and has an information technology degree.

At around 11:46, Orly asks about the birth certificate, "Is it a forgery?"

Judge Reid states "Sustained before response."

After another attempt to continue, Joel again objects to Papa's lack of qualification as an expert and lack of anything like an m.o. that justifies him to be making conclusions.

At about 11:48, Orly and Black want to confer.

The defendants do not object, 20 minutes until the time Judge Reid said the hearing would end, to disorganized plaintiffs' counsel spending their time conferring.

After a short time, Orly launches into an absurd abortion of a compound question I couldn't even take notes on, it was so ridiculous.

Joel makes an objection that I understood as an objection to form.

Eventually, Orly gets Papa to testify to the "fact" that any time you scan a document, it will always just show up as one solid layer, never more than one layer. This, says Papa, is prima facie evidence that the birth certificate is not original.

Joel moves to strike this testimony as making a legal conclusion. It is hard to imagine a more obvious piece of testimony clearly making a legal conclusion, that is, that something is "prima facie evidence" of something, but Judge Reid overrules, after stating that Papa can't draw conclusions of law.

Orly then asks Papa if a document is not manipulated, will it be in one layer?

One solid layer, says Papa.

Joel objects again. There is simply no basis whatsoever for this conclusion.

Black offers that the only qualification for an expert is knowledge beyond the ken of the average juror, a generalization he returns to over and over again, more times than I mention in these summaries.

Judge Reid does eventually agree there is no foundation for Papa's testimony and sustains the objection. Papa is to make no conclusions.

Orly asks what is the basis for your conclusion about layers?

Joel objects again, for the same reason.

Sustained.

Judge Reid expresses uncertainty that Orly understands how to lay a foundation. At this point, a document is introduced as P-2A that I forget what it is.

Black makes some statement that indicates he wants to "comment on the evidence."

Judge Reid says you can't do that. You can do that in closing. (Note, no closing statements were allowed.)

Judge Reid asks "Why are we handing this to the witness?"

Black says to identify it.

Judge Reid says that doesn't tell me what it is.

It turns out to be Obama's COLB.

At about 11:58, Judge Reid asks "What is this page?"

She is informed, again, that it is one of these "layers" that supposedly prove something.

More leading and objections, sustained.

P-2 and P-3 are marked and not admissible after brief arguments.

Plaintiffs move to qualify Papa as an expert.

Judge Reid states that the "motion to qualify" as an expert no longer exists in Indiana and denies the request.

Now, at about 12:06, there is a much-needed break in the proceedings, and a meeting in chambers. I sent a brief message to RC during this break and returned before counsel returned from chambers.

This is where I thought all this nonsense would be ended.

Orly returned from whatever in camera events occurred, along with counsel for the state defendants, looking unhappy.

Proceedings resumed at 12:20.

We're back to Felicito Papa, with more argument about his qualifications. Judge Reid points out there are two prongs to the issue of expert testimony. One is whether the witness has the necessary skill. The other is whether they used an acceptable methodology so that their testimony is reliable.

Papa then makes the dumbest argument I've ever heard in person, stating that the document had layers, again, which we're already aware is true of a certain document examined by Papa in Illustrator. Adobe Illustrator didn't exist in 1961. Really, this is the argument.

Another objection is overruled. Plaintiffs are done with this witness.

This time, defendants actually get to cross examine, the only time they're allowed to do so in this thing we are, apparently as a form of humor, calling a "trial."

Isn't it true you never physically observed the original birth certificate?

Orly objects to irrelevance. Overruled.

Papa says he was not sent to Hawaii. He's seen it on the website. He's also seen the Nordyke birth certificate.

Orly interrupts unintelligibly. Judge Reid asks if she has an objection.

Orly says "I want to clarify what he said." She really says that. TWLOITHOTU! (The Worst Lawyer in the History of the Universe for anyone tuning in recently.)

Judge Reid points out the purpose of counsel is not to "clarify" what witnesses say and that Orly isn't testifying.

The rest of the cross goes very quickly.

Does Felicito Papa have any idea how the website where he supposedly saw the Nordyke BC was maintained or basically any knowledge whatsoever that it was a legitimate document. Basically, where did you get it?

He has no idea. He just got it somewhere, it was like, out there, man.

Do you have any idea how the website was maintained and operated?

No.

Do you have any idea how the White House website was operated?

No.

(Are you, sir, a complete idiot?

Yes. Okay, I made that one up.)

Byebye at 12:31.

Orly, of course, gets redirect. Two times out of three, the defendants don't even get cross, and get no closing statement, and are cut off in the middle of the cross of the next witness, Paul Irey, but Orly gets redirect.

Needless to say, this opportunity is squandered.

Orly tries to go back to the Nordyke BC. Objection that Papa has already admitted he has no personal knowledge of that BC or its authenticity.

Orly attempts to go off on some unintelligible rant. I hope the court reporter got it.

Judge Reid informs her this is redirect, as if these words have any meaning at all to TWLOITOHU.

Orly asks a question involving whether the White House website has any more "veracity" than any other website on the Internet. Kind of a dumb point to make, since all of Papa's testimony is supposedly based on the Illustrator document Papa derived from the White House website and the magical layers found therein.

After a motion to strike the response, Judge Reid indicated that the court would disregard the response. So, apparently, did I.

Felicito is dismissed. By the court this time.

Judge Reid states that the "trial" will end at 1:00 p.m., period, even if it's in the middle of a sentence.

We move on to Paul Irey.

That's for Part Four.

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L—d! said my mother, what is all this story about? — A Cock and a Bull, said Yorick — And one of the best of its kind I ever heard. -- Sterne


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PostPosted: Mon Oct 22, 2012 7:20 pm 
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Looks like I won't finish the last and most interesting part of this before the RC Radio show at this URL. The last part focuses on Paul Irey, and is IMO where the hearing really went off the rails, although this result was inevitable because of the initial decision for the court even to have a "trial" in a case where it quite probably doesn't even have any jurisdiction.

It ended in an abject procedural train wreck.

That report will go here.

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PostPosted: Tue Oct 23, 2012 10:14 am 
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When can we expect to see part 4, Por favor?


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PostPosted: Tue Oct 23, 2012 10:48 am 
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Part Four

The last time I noted was 12:31, but Paul Irey started testifying some time after that. After taking his seat, Irey was sworn in, and Orly asked for some background.

He had experience during service in the Air Force as a clerk-typist, two of these years at the National Security Agency with Top Secret security clearance. He subsequently worked for Hearst in Manhattan. Ultimately, he started his own business, which I believe he identified as Bergen Graphics. During his typesetting experience, he used at least four or five different typesetting machines, as well as computer programs like Photoshop and Illustrator on the Macintosh. He has used these software packages since they existed. He employs 60 people. He has 57 years of experience in typesetting, though you will note that he testifies nearly entirely about typewriters and his conclusions about document forgery, and the only directly relevant experience to that is having used a typewriter about 50 years ago.

Is he familiar with Obama's birth certificate? He is now retired, and has done nothing for the last 18 months but "study that document."

Objection, on the same continuing grounds, as well as lack of expertise. Black again intones the definition of expert testimony as that beyond the ken of the average juror. The objection is overruled.

I'm going to go on a brief tangent here to explain how expert testimony is normally taken, so it is clear exactly how far the procedures used by this court deviate from that procedure.

Here is the general outline of the requirements from the Indiana Rules of Evidence, which track the Federal Rules of Evidence.

Quote:
Rule 702. Testimony by Experts

(a) If scientific, technical, or other specialized knowledge will assist the trier of fact to understand the evidence or to determine a fact in issue, a witness qualified as an expert by knowledge, skill, experience, training, or education, may testify thereto in the form of an opinion or otherwise.

(b) Expert scientific testimony is admissible only if the court is satisfied that the scientific principles upon which the expert testimony rests are reliable.

Rule 703. Bases of Opinion Testimony by Experts

The facts or data in the particular case upon which an expert bases an opinion or inference may be those perceived by or made known to the expert at or before the hearing. Experts may testify to opinions based on inadmissible evidence, provided that it is of the type reasonably relied upon by experts in the field.

Rule 704. Opinion on Ultimate Issue

(a) Testimony in the form of an opinion or inference otherwise admissible is not objectionable merely because it embraces an ultimate issue to be decided by the trier of fact.

(b) Witnesses may not testify to opinions concerning intent, guilt, or innocence in a criminal case; the truth or falsity of allegations; whether a witness has testified truthfully; or legal conclusions.

Rule 705. Disclosure of Facts or Data Underlying Expert Opinion

The expert may testify in terms of opinion or inference and give reasons therefor without first testifying to the underlying facts or data, unless the court requires otherwise. The expert may in any event be required to disclose the underlying facts or data on cross-examination.


Now, this is the substance of the rules, but this substance is actually carried out through procedure.

Generally, the presentation of expert testimony is done in a number of steps. First, the expert provides an expert report detailing their expertise, the subject matter about which they will testify, and outlines what they will present at trial. Then, the adverse party takes the deposition of the expert witness, based on this report, to determine what is going to happen at trial.

Then, at trial, there is a two step process for the presentation of the evidence. First, the expert is actually qualified by the court as an expert, or else not qualified. There is direct testimony elicited by counsel for the party seeking to qualify the expert, followed by cross examination, often called voir dire, by the adverse party. Then the parties present arguments as to why the witness should be or should not be qualified as an expert.

This step is sometimes a formality. Often, parties will stipulate to the qualifications of an obviously qualified expert, or will only contest qualifications as to a specific subject. Generally, it is not useful to engage in extensive examination and cross examination of a very qualified witness if you are the other side, simply because it would just draw more attention to their qualifications. Sometimes, the party will insist on presenting the expert's qualifications even when the other side would prefer they not.

In this case, such a hearing would not have been a formality. The defense waived absolutely nothing and continually objected to the lack of qualifications as an expert of the witness, and any adequate cross examination would have made this clear.

The purpose of qualifying the expert is to prevent wasting the time of the court hearing witness that is of no probative value whatsoever. This is the purpose of Rule 702(b), stating that "[e]xpert scientific testimony is admissible only if the court is satisfied that the scientific principles upon which the expert testimony rests are reliable." The science at issue would be forensic document examination. Irey has no experience whatsoever as a forensic document examiner. He was qualified to testify as an expert in typesetting. What he actually testified about, however, was typewriters.

Sometimes, courts are rather loosey-goosey about whom they qualify as expert witnesses, but even in that case, the voir dire serves the purpose of defining more clearly what kind of expertise the purported expert actually has. Here, a guy whose "expertise" is that he used to use a typewriter half a century ago is allowed to testify that a document, created in 1961, by methods he does not even claim to know, is a forgery. This has nothing to do with typesetting or typesetting machines.

This is like me claiming that because I have flipped light switches on and off at various times over the last 40 or so years, I can give expert testimony on quantum electrodynamics.

In any event, this crucial step was entirely skipped. It was not waived by the defense, which consistently attacked this witness' lack of expert qualifications. I think it might have been more felicitous to cite a specific rule and make a specific demand for a hearing on admissibility itself, but I think the record will be clear enough to preserve the issue for any necessary appellate review. For various reasons, I don't think that will be necessary, but I'm saving that for my conclusion.

In any event, to get back to the narrative, Judge Reid allowed the testimony.

Irey basically was allowed to testify on the subject of his various declarations of the past, using a demonstrative exhibit including what are alleged to be enlarged copies of letters from the copy of the COLB from the White House website, and he states that the letters would not appear different if created on a typewriter. In particular, these letters would not be different if the document had been entirely created on one typewriter.

There are a series of objections throughout this testimony, but Judge Reid allows this testimony.

Irey stated that "an assembly of sources created the document" and explicitly states the document "is a forgery."

The defense objects and moves to strike, on the grounds that the witness has just testified to the ultimate issue to be decided by the trier of fact. Essentially, this is a Rule 704(b) objection. Black holds up his end of his job of responding to evidentiary objections by citing a case which I did not entirely catch at the time, other than that it was from 747 N.E.2d, but I believe he cited Bedree v. Bedree, 747 N.E.2d 1192 (Ind. Ct. App. 2001), for the proposition that forgery can be proven by expert testimony.

The defense argued, to the contrary, that a document being a forgery is a legal conclusion.

Black argued that whether a document is genuine is a fact that is legitimately the subject of expert testimony, even though the ultimate conclusion of forgery is for the trier of fact and the court.

Judge Reid concluded (and I more or less agree) that a qualified expert could testify as to this subject, although the court would be the ultimate decider. I disagree this was a qualified expert and, of course, that these proceedings should even have been taking place.

Irey then was allowed to testify, more or less without objections being sustained, to "facts" like that the word "Honolulu" was taken in entirety from another document and affixed to the birth certificate, and that this is "proven" by the spacing in "Honolulu" being regular. Meanwhile, the spacing in "Barack Obama" is purportedly irregular, supposedly "proving" that these letters were obtained from other documents. These "facts" were demonstrated using enlarged exhibits later filed and marked as P-4 and P-5.

There was, of course, an objection to their admission, because first, they were never provided to the defense, and I suspect Kenneth Joel was joshing a bit here, because the exhibits were so large, but that he would gladly "recant" the claim of having received the exhibits if it turned out not to be true. If I am correct in detecting a tone of understated humor here, it is that the exhibits were so large that nobody would mistakenly believe they had not received them. There was nothing in Joel's manner that indicated levity, however, and I may simply have personally found this humorous.

Black moved to admit them as demonstratives.

Judge Reid, reasonably enough, agreed to admit P-4 and P-5 not as certified exhibits, but as essentially being items used by the witness as a summary of testimony. I believe P-4 and P-5 consist of both sides of the enlarged exhibit featuring different letters purportedly from the birth certificate. The transcript should reflect when exhibits were marked, filed and/or admitted (documents are often marked without being admitted).

At about 12:51, the plaintiffs move to admit the next enlarged exhibit, consisting of P-7 and P-8, for Irey's next brief testimony, this time about the "white halo" effect he concludes is proof of forgery. He claims that he duplicated this "white halo" effect using Photoshop and the "unsharp mask" filter. He claims that photocopying from the original birth certificate onto the green security paper could not create such a "white halo." Basically, his testimony is that because a scanned document contained a feature of electronic documents, that the original paper document is a forgery. This is just to show the utter idiocy of this argument, which any adequate cross examination would have shown.

The next major objection is when he concludes, from this nonsense, that "the forger" created the document using Photoshop with the "unsharp mask" feature, and that the document was created by "computer manipulation."

The objection, for the usual valid reasons, is again overruled. P-7 and P-8 are admitted as summaries of testimony.

At about 12:55, five minutes before the "trial" is to conclude, the defendants are allowed to begin a cross examination of Irey.

The questions were about personal knowledge. Does Irey have any personal knowledge of:

What photocopiers Hawaii used to copy birth certificates?

No.

What typewriters Hawaii used in 1961?

No.

What procedures Hawaii used to create birth certificates in 1961?

No.

Orly objects a copule times and is overruled.

Did you review the original birth certificate in Hawaii?

No, but he tried. He was not permitted to see the original.

Did he compare the electronic copy of the White House website birth certificate with any known genuine Hawaiian birth certificate?

He doesn't answer this, since the hearing is now closed by Judge Reid at approximately 1:01.

Unlike in a real trial, this "trial" does not have closing arguments. It just ends.

Judge Reid takes all matters under advisement. Unlike issues like personal jurisdiction, subject matter jurisdiction, absolute judicial immunity and similar trivialities, Judge Reid is very concerned that she receives proposed orders from all parties on all pending motions, which have been taken under advisement. In a real trial, one would usually have findings of fact and conclusions of law by the judge on which to base these proposed orders, but not in this "trial." The very critical issues are that there be at least one hardcopy of the proposed orders, a CD containing a Word document so she can edit it, and self-addressed stamped envelopes, a very critical element of due process. I think it's in the Constitution somewhere.

The pending motions are the motion for default, the motion to vacate, the motion to dismiss, and possibly something I missed about declaratory judgment. I can't read my handwriting.

Judge Reid wants this by some time in the week and suggests Wednesday or Thursday. Kenneth Joel is eager to provide the orders any time at all. Orly is not so quick on the draw.

Eventually, the agreement is the orders are to be provided by the end of business on Thursday. Black, I believe, asks if the judge wants these by email. Judge Reid does not want email.

Orly asks when she can get a transcript. Judge Reid, with a sour look, tells her to sort it out with the court personnel. Yes, Judge Reid, Orly will be spreading the circus she held in your court room, with your blessing, to courts all over the country as she continues to spread her pestilence. I hope you are proud of yourself.

The hearing is closed at 1:03. I immediately leave, go home and vote for Obama. Good luck with that injunction, Orly.

_________________
L—d! said my mother, what is all this story about? — A Cock and a Bull, said Yorick — And one of the best of its kind I ever heard. -- Sterne


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PostPosted: Tue Oct 23, 2012 11:34 am 
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Part Five: Conclusions

No way in Hell is Orly going to win this. Basically, Judge Reid has punted to defense counsel to write the order dismissing the case, while purportedly taking it under "advisement."

I think this because the hearing was so characterized by procedural and other irregularities that the list of items of reversible error are nearly endless. No ruling in favor of the plaintiffs could survive appellate review, and indeed, the irregularities would trigger emergency appellate review resulting in nearly immediate reversal, or maybe even the embarrassment of an order of prohibition taking the case away from the court for a manifest lack of jurisdiction.

Most unlike a trial, the abrupt termination of cross examination and the complete lack of any opportunity for a closing statement are the most obvious irregularities.

There are also evidentiary issues where the proceedings get out of hand. These are not my core problems with these proceedings. Frankly, judges, and especially state court judges, are often pretty loosey-goosey with rules of evidence. There is no trial where one judge would make exactly the same evidentiary decisions as another judge. I doubt any court-watcher has watched a trial where they didn't disagree with some of the evidentiary decisions.

Similarly, procedural issues are also very subjective. Everyone who regularly watches trials has seen procedural mistakes by trial court judges, or what they perceive to be mistakes. No judge does a trial the same way. Even good judges make bad procedural and evidentiary decisions, most of which do not alter the outcome of the case in the least, and good trial counsel takes the good with the bad and moves on.

However, some principles are so fundamental to justice and due process that they cannot be disregarded. Among these are jurisdiction and immunity.

Jurisdiction has two components, personal jurisdiction and subject matter jurisdiction. Personal jurisdiction, a due process concern, requires that a specific person is actually subject to the jurisdiction of a court. If they meet certain requirements (residency or "minimum contacts" pursuant to cases like International Shoe), there is still a requirement they be served.

The state contested personal jurisdiction in this case.

The second, and more important component of subject matter jurisdiction is whether the court even has the jurisdiction to hear the case and issue a binding judgment on the subject matter it concerns. Matters like standing are related to subject matter jurisdiction.

Courts sometimes get jurisdictional issues wrong. They are reversed on appeal. Even competent judges do this. These issues can be very tricky.

However, there is a third factor in this case, and that is immunity. People like judges, legislators, prosecutors and other attorneys enjoy absolute immunity for their judicial or purely representational acts, like choices of whether or not to prosecute a case. Other state employees, like police officers, enjoy a qualified immunity, meaning they are entitled to immunity from liability for acts, even wrongful acts, performed not in violation of clearly established law.

The reason for this is that society depends on police being able to arrest criminals, prosecutors being able to file charges, state attorneys being able to defend cases, executive agencies being able to make decisions to carry out the laws they enforce, and others. Virtually all of these decisions are going to make someone unhappy. A new highway is going to go through someone's house. Someone is going to go to jail. Someone isn't going to get benefits they think they are entitled to receive. Sometimes, these people are going to be right that their rights are violated. Sometimes they'll be wrong, but sue anyway.

If every judge, prosecutor, police officer, state attorney, zoning commissioner, benefits hearing officer, tax official, DMV head, alcoholic beverage commissioner, or any endless series of government officials making necessary decisions were subject to a full-blown trial every time someone was unhappy with their decision, absolutely nothing could get done. No roads could be built, no criminals could be arrested, welfare would just have to be granted to every single person claiming it, willy-nilly, because otherwise the agency would be sued.

That's why there is a doctrine of immunity. Judges shall not be sued personally for their decisions, even if those decisions are wrong. Attorneys shall not be sued for representing their clients, even if their clients are jerks. If the case is wrongly decided, it gets reversed on appeal. Judges, police officers, prosecutors, state attorneys and so on are not expected to be superhuman in order to avoid liability. It is a fact of life that sometimes, decisions are wrong.

However, this is a case where a decision was clearly correct and nevertheless, a bunch of lunatics is suing every state official they can put in a caption, assisted by an equally insane and incompetent attorney.

Having a trial on this does not merely get a legal issue wrong. It destroys the right to immunity enjoyed by the officials of the state in an irretrievable way that cannot be remedied on appeal.

Immunity is so central to the administration of justice that a judge, who herself enjoys judicial immunity, failing to recognize the principle is, as Judge Clay Land once stated, "this is just so fundamental that I'm having a hard time understanding how you are not grasping it.”

A claim of immunity is generally entitled to a decision before any other issue. In fact, unlike most other issues, a denial of immunity by a trial court is such a fundamental issue that it entitles the state defendant to an immediate interlocutory appeal.

This isn't just my opinion. It's the law.

"If a given defense to liability in fact encompasses a right not to stand trial under the specified circumstances, one's right to that defense is effectively unreviewable on appeal from final judgment." Mitchell v. Forsyth, 472 U.S. 511, 550 (1985). (I will note I agree with the dissent by Brennan and Marshall but it is not the law. I agree with the general principles of immunity while disagreeing with much of its application, but its application to this current case is well within even the most politically liberal interpretation of the doctrine.)

I'm choosing a federal case because it states it in classic language adopted in most jurisdictions. If I am somehow incorrect in relation to Indiana, I will later correct it.

In any event, the choice to hold a "trial," especially with reference to the two DAGs Shelby and Garn, represented exactly the evil to be prevented by the immunity doctrine. It prevented them from doing their jobs and defending the state from a frivolous legal action, forcing a third and more senior lawyer to come in and take over the case. The obvious parade of horribles is that a vexatious litigant could simply go on and then sue that lawyer, then sue the judge, then sue the appeals court, and be allowed "trials" on all these issues.

Since the right of immunity is the right NOT to stand trial in the first place, this right was basically destroyed by Judge Reid. No appellate review unrings the bell.

Further, while jurisdictional issues do not necessarily trigger immediate appellate review, they are supposed to be decided as a threshold matter, since they similarly question whether the court even has the power to render a binding decision.

Making a wrong decision on jurisdiction would not have been a disgrace. Making a wrong decision on immunity would not have been a disgrace.

Refusing to make a decision on both these issues and then holding a mockery of a "trial" afterward is, however.

That's my opinion and I'm sticking to it.

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L—d! said my mother, what is all this story about? — A Cock and a Bull, said Yorick — And one of the best of its kind I ever heard. -- Sterne


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PostPosted: Tue Oct 23, 2012 12:39 pm 
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 ! realist wrote:
I AM NOT POSTING THIS HERE TO SOLICIT COMMENT IN THIS THREAD BUT THOUGHT IT MIGHT BE WORTH A MENTION AND IN A PLACE WHERE COMMENT COULD BE CARRIED OVER TO THE SMACKDOWN THREAD...


neonzx wrote:
realist wrote:
YES... it was FINALLY obtained, as promised. :-bd

IN - 2012-09-26 - HEARING TRANSCRIPT

:cheer:



Just FYI - re: Accuracy of Fogbow reporting. :-bd

I went back to read GG/Loh’s report and compare them to the transcript.

They are so totally spot on … down to


COMPARE:

Great Grey:

“Garn: Um... it's a Federal issue. (Loud grumbles from the 'roids)”

WITH

Transcript (47):

MR. GARN: They---they would be able to---there are many---first of all, it's a Federal issue so it'd be, there would be---.

SEVERAL UNIDENTIFIED PEOPLE IN GALLERY: No, it's not-- it's not (parts inaudible).

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

COMPARE:

Loh:

Right out of the gate, Orly accuses Ms. Shelby of "complete dishonesty." Judge Reid immediately interrupts her and delivers a series of stinging rebukes, stating that if Orly wants to accuse opposing counsel of dishonesty, she had best have some actual evidence and not a naked accusation. She states the court will not tolerate this kind of conduct, and cites Orly's Rule 11 obligation not to advance such baseless attacks against opposing counsel. Judge asks Orly if she understands what she just said, and Orly meekly says yes.

WITH

Transcript (16-17):

MS. TAITZ: Sure. Your Honor, what Ms. Shelby is doing yet again, just complete dishonesty because she knows full well---.

THE COURT: Now, wait a minute. Hold on. Let me make something very clear on the record in this Court. When you accuse opposing counsel of dishonesty you'd better come forth---.

MS. TAITZ: Sure.

THE COURT: With evidence to support that, evidence.

MS. TAITZ: Sure.

THE COURT: Not an accusation. I don't tolerate that in this Court. This is a Court of law. Counsel is under a Rule 11 obligation to be candid and straight forward with this Court, as are you.

MS. TAITZ: Yes.

THE COURT: Alright. So, before you accuse opposing counsel of being dishonest, you'd better put forth the evidence, instead of just the accusation.

MS. TAITZ: Your Honor.

THE COURT: Is that clear?

MS. TAITZ: Absolutely.

THE COURT: Alright, very good. Go ahead.

MS. TAITZ: Your Honor, I have contacted and I have explained in my email to Mr. King, I did not contact him as a defendant, he was contacted as an election official in regards to the new challenge.

THE COURT: So you did contact Mr. King?

MS. TAITZ: But not---not as a defendant …

========================================================================

COMPARE

Loh:

After a bit more screeching, Judge Reid cuts her off in the middle of a sentence, saying that she has to move the hearing along, that she asked for a concise argument and didn't get it. She then rules from the bench and denies the motion to reconsider. Provided, however, she continues, that from now on, there will be absolute compliance with Indiana trial rules, the Local Rules and Indiana law.

WITH

Transcript (23-24):

THE COURT: You just would go on and on. I asked for a concise---please be seated. Court's gonna rule on the pro hac vice. Court's ruling is as follows. Going to deny the State---the Election Commission, defendants, request to rescind my order admitting Ms. Taitz, provided that from this day forward I have absolute compliance with the Indiana Trial Rules, the Marion County Local Rules, and the Laws of the State of Indiana. Ms. Taitz, I've had this conversation with you before on the record and when you first applied for admission, I denied it because you didn't comply with the rules regarding admission. In other words, I didn't have a receipt that said you'd paid the fee, period. It is evident to me both in Court and in your pleadings that you are not familiar with the laws, the rules, or any procedure in the state of Indiana. In that regard, I have grave concerns about your representative---or your representation of these plaintiffs. Mr. Black, you've signed on as cocounsel, you have certain obligations of which I've noticed in the pleadings in the file are not being met. So, Mr. Black, Ms. Taitz this is your warning, two o'clock, September 26th, this is actually a repeated warning. Any more violations, blatant violations, I'll hear a motion for dismissal. In other words, if I hold the defendants to the proper following the rules, I'm going to hold you the same, whether you're from California or where ever you're from.

MS. TAITZ: Yes, Your Honor.

THE COURT: Alright.

MR. BLACK: Very well, Your Honor.

THE COURT: So I don't want to go on and on about this. I've said this in a prior hearing, Ms. Taitz.

MS. TAITZ: Yes.

THE COURT: And when I don't see a distribution list on your pleadings or certificate of service, I'm going to reject them from this day forward. I can't---I've given---this is the second warning.

MS. TAITZ: Thank you.

THE COURT: I want you to have your time in Court. want you to be able to utilize your Court.

MS. TAITZ: Yes.

THE COURT: But you have to follow the rules that everyone else is required to follow.

MS. TAITZ: Yes, Yes, Your Honor.

THE COURT: And I'll enforce those rules.

MS. TAITZ: Yes, sir (sic).

~~~~~~~~~~~~

You could do this with every paragraph from GG and Loh. They were, together, *aMAZ*ingly accurate.

:-bd :hug:

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Let us tenderly and kindly cherish, therefore, the means of knowledge. Let us dare to read, think, speak, and write.
John Adams


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PostPosted: Tue Oct 23, 2012 1:41 pm 
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I note that I may have incorrectly used the abbreviation "COLB" (Certificate of Live Birth) when "LFBC" (Long Form Birth Certificate) would have been appropriate. I don't have a copy of any of the exhibits used, and the proceedings were bungled enough to make it difficult at times to determine exactly what was happening and what documents the plaintiffs were using.

They're stamped and filed, though, so I'll correct if either the transcript clears it up at some point if anyone considers it worth the bother of getting a transcript of the clown car emptying, or if someone else figures it out. I may do it myself in the next few days if I feel like it.

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