Falsehoods unchallenged only fester and grow.


All times are UTC - 5 hours [ DST ]




Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 169 posts ]  Go to page Previous  1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7  Next   
Author Message
 Post subject: AZ Ballot Challenge
PostPosted: Wed Mar 07, 2012 12:46 pm 
Online
User avatar

Joined: Mon Aug 10, 2009 3:29 pm
Posts: 2573
Location: In exile in NOVA
Some sort of order was issued yesterday:

Quote:
Order Order ORDER 3/6/2012 Available at Courthouse

_________________
They laughed at Columbus, they laughed at Fulton, they laughed at the Wright brothers. But they also laughed at Bozo the Clown. – Carl Sagan


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: AZ Ballot Challenge
PostPosted: Wed Mar 07, 2012 12:58 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Sat Mar 20, 2010 5:10 pm
Posts: 5758
Location: My business address is in Pennsylvania
Not just some sort of order, an Order Order Order.

_________________
ImageImageImageImageImage


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: AZ Ballot Challenge
PostPosted: Wed Mar 07, 2012 1:04 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Sat Feb 25, 2012 1:21 pm
Posts: 411
raicha wrote:
Not just some sort of order, an Order Order Order.


A triple decker "Dismissed" Club sandwich, perhaps ?
Toothpick embedded, Chips and pickle on the side.

_________________
It is not clear, how these two individuals merge into one person. It is not clear, who came back from Indiana, Orly Taitz or Lena. We have no idea, who is residing in the Taitz house: is it Orly Taitz or is it
Lena Lettmifeeenisch ? If it is Lena, what, happened to Orly Taitz ?
Lila Dubert


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: AZ Ballot Challenge
PostPosted: Wed Mar 07, 2012 1:09 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Wed Feb 02, 2011 4:30 pm
Posts: 2912
Location: The Great Pariah State of Arizona
By sheer coincidence, I was at the courthouse on the same day as yesterday's hearing. Since my matter ended early, I was able to attend it. What follows is my report (edited from an original version that has been circulated in confidence, to remove certain extraneous commentary on my part):




I showed up for the 3:30 hearing around 3pm. Without having any idea who Kenneth Allen was, I felt I recognized him sitting close to the courtroom door waiting for it to open. My suspicion was confirmed when I saw some birther-looking lady walk up to him to shake his hand and say (I think), "Hi, nice to see you again," and then hand him a stack of mysterious papers which seemed to have "notes" typed out on them. (Note: It's also possible that she was his friend or wife, and I misheard what she said.)

Allen looks like a birther. He is a smallish man aged in his late 50s or early 60s. He looked nervous and tightly wound up. He was wearing a shirt and tie that were all but overshadowed by what appeared to me to be a large puffy winter jacket, presumably because he does not own a formal coat that is part of a suit.

The hearing started a few minutes early. Judge Gordon is a surprisingly young-looking judge with a friendly demeanor. In appearance were two lawyers from the Pima County Attorney's Office. Appearing by phone for the Democratic Party was Paul Eckstein from the Perkins Coie firm, Phoenix office. I won't read much into Eckstein's decision to appear by telephone (he says it was due to a dinner he had to attend at 5:30), except to observe that it reflected a certain level of confidence (or arrogance, perhaps deliberately signaled).

The hearing lasted about 40 minutes. The judge started it with a strange comment about his background as a former US Attorney. He felt he did not need to recuse himself because the US Attorney was not a party to this action, but asked the parties if anyone wanted to request that he recuse himself. No one did, including Allen. I disagree that he even needed to bring this up but whatever.

About half of the discussion focused on Arizona's statutory election laws and election procedures. Before diving into them, Eckstein cited to a recent decision from the Northern District of California to support his view that this issue was not properly in the state courts to begin with. This was a federal issue, he said, and indeed it did not really belong in the federal courts either as this concerned decisions for Congress, and the electoral college, to make.

Moving on, Eckstein and the PCAO parsed the various provisions at issue and essentially argued that Allen had named the wrong defendants and failed to served the defendants he did name. PCAO pointed out that Pima County had no dog in this show because Arizona was not a state where delegates are obligated by law to vote according to the primary election results, among other reasons.

For his part, Allen had no idea how to address the statutory issues. He did little more during his turn to speak than shuffle some papers around and tell the court that he had served Barack Obama. There was also a funny moment when he got flustered and proclaimed, "Barack Obama is not a natural born citizen! That's why I'm here!" The judge patiently refocused him by saying, "No, we're discussing procedural issues right now. We'll get to the merits later." Again though, Allen had no grasp of the "procedural issues" in the remotest sense. He also remarked, "I'm not a lawyer and I don't pretend to be one. I am not going to attempt to do the job of these people [pointing to the perfectly civil and polite PCAO lawyers who weren't clear on why they were sued] who are well-trained on how to argue these things."

The second half of the hearing focused on "the merits." It was a pleasure hearing Paul Eckstein, who is probably the senior-most lawyer in Arizona to specialize in election law, refute the birther argument. Although, his grasp of the issues would probably not satisfy most of us birther-obsessed geeks who know more details about the issue than is good for us. He began his argument by commenting, "I'm surprised to hear that I'm not a natural born citizen, your Honor. I was born on an army base in 1940 and my mother didn't become naturalized until 2 years later." He then discussed Wong Kim Ark and Ankeny and finished.

Allen was polite, and maintained a moderate tone of voice during this portion of the argument, as he had throughout for the most part. He made the usual birther talking points about Wong Kim Ark, and unsurprisingly discussed Minor v. Happersett. He also relied on the usual birther falsehoods, such as, "Barack Obama has never produced a birth certificate." The court and counsel didn't care to address this underlying fact assertion, which we all know presumably arises from the conclusion that the certificates that have been produced are all forgeries. He also mentioned Sheriff Joe's investigation several times.

In Eckstein's final rebuttal, he addressed the Happersett case and explained exactly what its holding was and why it had no bearing on the merits.

One issue that irritated me (well, many did, in terms of how the Democratic Party argued the issues, but I digress) was when the court asked both sides, "Are there any other published decisions on this issue other than Ankeny?" Allen and Eckstein both said they were unable to think of any. Eckstein did not refer the court to his brief.

Also hilarious: Allen at one point proudly proclaimed, "Your Honor, I just got back from Philadelphia, where I testified in a legal action on this issue over there."

In closing, the court surprised me by trying to compliment Allen. I'm mystified by the motivation behind doing this, in part because the judge's comments struck me as awkward and not thought out in advance. They were something to the effect of, "I wish to thank you for pursuing these matters." Huh? I think the judge was trying to say, "Thank you for being a citizen who is actively engaged in the political process by airing these issues out in public." Allen and the birthers will likely interpret this closing comment in their own hilarious way though.

The judge stated that the Arizona statutes, if they apply, required him to provide a ruling by Friday. Assuming they applied, then, he would attempt to comply, leaving the door open for a ruling after Friday in the event he concludes that the statutes do not apply. With that, the hearing ended.

_________________
Image Image Image Image Image


"What part of 'second' don't you understand?" -Judge Morrison England


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: AZ Ballot Challenge
PostPosted: Wed Mar 07, 2012 1:18 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Mon Jun 15, 2009 6:22 am
Posts: 6454
Location: downstairs
Poutine! :hug:

_________________
I have never made but one prayer to God, a very short one: "O Lord make my enemies ridiculous." And God granted it.--Voltaire


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: AZ Ballot Challenge
PostPosted: Wed Mar 07, 2012 1:25 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Sat Apr 16, 2011 12:40 am
Posts: 5518
Occupation: retired
Poutine, thanks for the report. :cheer: :cheer: :cheer:

What do you think the Order.Order Order at the courthouse might be?

_________________
Mark Twain
Quote:
Research shows that 87.666 per cent of all statistics are made up.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: AZ Ballot Challenge
PostPosted: Wed Mar 07, 2012 1:30 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Wed Feb 02, 2011 4:30 pm
Posts: 2912
Location: The Great Pariah State of Arizona
esseff44 wrote:
Poutine, thanks for the report. :cheer: :cheer: :cheer:

What do you think the Order.Order Order at the courthouse might be?


I regret now not checking into that order, but from what was discussed (and not discussed) at the hearing, I doubt it was anything but a procedural matter.

Eckstein appeared telephonically. Maybe it was an order permitting that?

_________________
Image Image Image Image Image


"What part of 'second' don't you understand?" -Judge Morrison England


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: AZ Ballot Challenge
PostPosted: Wed Mar 07, 2012 1:37 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Tue Jan 27, 2009 1:01 am
Posts: 18574
Location: Planet Earth (most the time)
Occupation: I'm not at liberty to say. In other words, I'd tell you, but then I'd have to kill you.
Thank you, poutine! :D Most excellent reporting.

_________________
Yes We Can! ~ Thomas Jefferson


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: AZ Ballot Challenge
PostPosted: Wed Mar 07, 2012 2:27 pm 
Offline

Joined: Wed Jul 01, 2009 3:29 pm
Posts: 3291
Location: Kailua, HI (home) Honolulu, HI (work)
Occupation: Development Director for The Arc in Hawaii (non-profit supporting adults with intellectual and developmental disabilities)
Merci mille fois, poutine! Great report. Fogbow rocks!

_________________
"This leap...is where counsel entered the thicket of legal frivolity."
Judge Clay D. Land - Oct. 13, 2009


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: AZ Ballot Challenge
PostPosted: Wed Mar 07, 2012 2:40 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Thu Sep 30, 2010 2:02 pm
Posts: 10983
Location: Stalag 13 Okanagan, WA 98840
Occupation: Drone Maintenance Officer - FAA Licensed and Certified "We Fix Drones©" Call (206) 622-0460 to schedule routine maintenance or repair.
Most Excellent Report...Nice to see you back in action again... 8-)

_________________
Image ImageImage

You can follow the action, which gets you good pictures.
You can follow your instincts, which'll probably get you in trouble.

Or... you can follow the money...
which nine times out of ten will get you closer to the truth.
"The Two Jakes"


Remember, Orly NEVAH disappoints!


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: AZ Ballot Challenge
PostPosted: Wed Mar 07, 2012 3:52 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Sun Sep 26, 2010 12:39 pm
Posts: 3987
Location: Southwest of down east
Eggsalent report. And welcome back!

_________________
Hope springs eternal within the human uniboob. - Thomas Jefferson.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: AZ Ballot Challenge
PostPosted: Wed Mar 07, 2012 10:15 pm 
Online
User avatar

Joined: Mon Aug 10, 2009 3:29 pm
Posts: 2573
Location: In exile in NOVA
OK, there's a ruling but I don't know what it means:-

Quote:
Ruling In Chambers Under Advisement Re: IN CHAMBERS UNDER ADVISEMENT RULING 3/7/2012 Available at Courthouse


Anybody care to take a guess?

_________________
They laughed at Columbus, they laughed at Fulton, they laughed at the Wright brothers. But they also laughed at Bozo the Clown. – Carl Sagan


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: AZ Ballot Challenge
PostPosted: Wed Mar 07, 2012 10:19 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Sat Apr 16, 2011 12:40 am
Posts: 5518
Occupation: retired
Denined!

_________________
Mark Twain
Quote:
Research shows that 87.666 per cent of all statistics are made up.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: AZ Ballot Challenge
PostPosted: Wed Mar 07, 2012 10:22 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Tue Mar 10, 2009 9:27 am
Posts: 4216
Welsh Dragon wrote:
OK, there's a ruling but I don't know what it means:-

Quote:
Ruling In Chambers Under Advisement Re: IN CHAMBERS UNDER ADVISEMENT RULING 3/7/2012 Available at Courthouse


Anybody care to take a guess?

After I thought carefully about it in chambers: DENINED.

?

_________________
@Orly: "No one is listening to you anymore. And that’s the way it should always be." - Scott J. Tepper (11/5/2012)


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: AZ Ballot Challenge
PostPosted: Wed Mar 07, 2012 10:28 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Sun Sep 26, 2010 12:39 pm
Posts: 3987
Location: Southwest of down east
The most likely explanation: The judge wants to go fishing on Friday and so he's cleaning the calendar of trival matters.

_________________
Hope springs eternal within the human uniboob. - Thomas Jefferson.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: AZ Ballot Challenge
PostPosted: Thu Mar 08, 2012 2:26 am 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Mon May 23, 2011 7:33 pm
Posts: 3500
Thanks, Poutine!

_________________
"What are you talking about, 99? We have to shoot and kill and destroy - we represent everything that's wholesome and good in the world." - Maxwell Smart
ImageImage


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: AZ Ballot Challenge
PostPosted: Thu Mar 08, 2012 7:54 am 
Online
User avatar

Joined: Fri Jan 23, 2009 1:33 pm
Posts: 23561
Welsh Dragon wrote:
OK, there's a ruling but I don't know what it means:-

Quote:
Ruling In Chambers Under Advisement Re: IN CHAMBERS UNDER ADVISEMENT RULING 3/7/2012 Available at Courthouse


Anybody care to take a guess?


It appears to mean it's a dispositive ruling in the case.

A little birdie (not a rooster) tells me that we'll have it by around noon today. Now, it may appear elsewhere prior to that (Ken Allen braggin' about a win or screeching about a loss, for instance), but just sayin'.

_________________
Let us tenderly and kindly cherish, therefore, the means of knowledge. Let us dare to read, think, speak, and write.
John Adams


ImageImage


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: AZ Ballot Challenge
PostPosted: Thu Mar 08, 2012 2:39 pm 
Online
User avatar

Joined: Fri Jan 23, 2009 1:33 pm
Posts: 23561
As promised above...

Allen v Obama - Order Dismissing Complaint

This funny entry appeared on the docket also, but it's obviously now moot.

Quote:
Motion Motion To Stay MOTION TO STAY PROCEEDINGS TO GATHER IMPORTANT IMFORMATION FOR COURT'S DELIBERATIONS 3/7/2012 Available at Courthouse


Quote:
But even assuming that the current challenge falls within this Court’s purview to decide, there are indispensible parties, most notably Arizona’s Secretary of State, who has not been named in the lawsuit. See A.R.S. § 16-344(A), (B). Most importantly, Arizona courts are bound by United States Supreme Court precedent in construing the United States Constitution, Arizona v. Jay J. Garfield Bldg. Co., 39 Ariz. 45, 54, 3 P.2d 983, 986 (1931), and this precedent fully supports that President Obama is a natural born citizen under the Constitution
and thus qualified to hold the office of President. See United States v. Wong Kim Ark, 169 U.S. 649, 702-03 (1898) (addressing U. S. Const. amend. XIV); Ankeny v. Governor of the State of Indiana, 916 N.E.2d 678, 684-88 (Ind. App. 2010) (addressing the precise issue).
Contrary to Plaintiff’s assertion, Minor v. Happersett, 88 U.S. 162 (1874), does not hold otherwise.


Wong Kim Ark, Ankeny... AND you're full of crap on Minor. :-bd


Yet another know-nothing, corrupt, bought-off judge. :lol:

Edit: ETA: The Motion to Stay was also denined.

_________________
Let us tenderly and kindly cherish, therefore, the means of knowledge. Let us dare to read, think, speak, and write.
John Adams


ImageImage


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: AZ Ballot Challenge
PostPosted: Thu Mar 08, 2012 2:55 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Tue Jan 27, 2009 1:01 am
Posts: 18574
Location: Planet Earth (most the time)
Occupation: I'm not at liberty to say. In other words, I'd tell you, but then I'd have to kill you.
That is delicious. i wonder if mario or charlie will ever mention it? :-bd

_________________
Yes We Can! ~ Thomas Jefferson


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: AZ Ballot Challenge
PostPosted: Thu Mar 08, 2012 2:56 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Mon May 23, 2011 7:33 pm
Posts: 3500
:banana:

Edit: My banana's a dud.

_________________
"What are you talking about, 99? We have to shoot and kill and destroy - we represent everything that's wholesome and good in the world." - Maxwell Smart
ImageImage


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: AZ Ballot Challenge
PostPosted: Thu Mar 08, 2012 2:58 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Fri Feb 20, 2009 9:09 pm
Posts: 7777
Location: USA
Occupation: Amateur radio host trying to figure out how to lower myself to shameless begging and stupid petition filing. It might be a good way to make a living. ;)
mimi wrote:
That is delicious. i wonder if mario or charlie will ever mention it? :-bd


I left a comment for Mario. :cheer:

_________________
The O-bot prayer:

Grant me the superior wit and biting sarcasm to mock the Birthers whose minds I cannot change
The superior facts, law, and reason to change the minds of the Birthers whom I can
And the wisdom to team up at Politijab The Fogbow with those who share my addiction and know the difference


- Allison 2/16/2009


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: AZ Ballot Challenge
PostPosted: Thu Mar 08, 2012 3:10 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Fri Jan 13, 2012 5:25 pm
Posts: 1428
realist wrote:

Yet another know-nothing, corrupt, bought-off judge. :lol:

Edit: ETA: The Motion to Stay was also denined.



I love the smell of birther fail in the morning.

Happy dance!! :rockon:

_________________
"It’s time for this charade to stop” - Cold Case Posse Member Mike Zullo, destroying Irony Meters worldwide


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: AZ Ballot Challenge
PostPosted: Thu Mar 08, 2012 3:14 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Fri Feb 20, 2009 9:42 am
Posts: 1439
Location: Garage Dubois, Choisy-le-Roi
Occupation: teacher (of English and translation), translator
Thanks, Poutine. Great report.

Now is this officially the FIRST birfer fail since Sheriff Joe? It would be kind of arpaiesque it that were so.

_________________
Orly Taitz (Svetlana Averbukha). Can't plead, can't drill. Slightly blonde. Can bore a little.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: AZ Ballot Challenge
PostPosted: Thu Mar 08, 2012 3:22 pm 
Offline

Joined: Tue Jan 31, 2012 3:05 pm
Posts: 105
Perfect timing...I can now cite this dismissal's references to Wong Kim Ark as yet more evidence that despite what my birther friend continues to insist, it is NOT necessary for an NBC to have two US citizen parents. She is dug in and not coming out at present...


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: AZ Ballot Challenge
PostPosted: Thu Mar 08, 2012 3:24 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Sat Feb 25, 2012 1:21 pm
Posts: 411
realist wrote:
As promised above...

Allen v Obama - Order Dismissing Complaint

This funny entry appeared on the docket also, but it's obviously now moot.

Quote:
Motion Motion To Stay MOTION TO STAY PROCEEDINGS TO GATHER IMPORTANT IMFORMATION FOR COURT'S DELIBERATIONS 3/7/2012 Available at Courthouse


Quote:
But even assuming that the current challenge falls within this Court’s purview to decide, there are indispensible parties, most notably Arizona’s Secretary of State, who has not been named in the lawsuit. See A.R.S. § 16-344(A), (B). Most importantly, Arizona courts are bound by United States Supreme Court precedent in construing the United States Constitution, Arizona v. Jay J. Garfield Bldg. Co., 39 Ariz. 45, 54, 3 P.2d 983, 986 (1931), and this precedent fully supports that President Obama is a natural born citizen under the Constitution
and thus qualified to hold the office of President. See United States v. Wong Kim Ark, 169 U.S. 649, 702-03 (1898) (addressing U. S. Const. amend. XIV); Ankeny v. Governor of the State of Indiana, 916 N.E.2d 678, 684-88 (Ind. App. 2010) (addressing the precise issue).
Contrary to Plaintiff’s assertion, Minor v. Happersett, 88 U.S. 162 (1874), does not hold otherwise.


Not just a dismissal, a dismissal which goes out of its way to stand the birfer NBC nonsense up against a wall and shoot it down. =D> =D>
In Sheriff Joe's home state, too.....smack dab in the cultural center of the Land O' Birfers.
Judge Gordon provides More solid precedent for future cases to cite. All that needed was for him to rule plaintiff pays fees and costs.
Has AZ v. Jay J. Garfield ever been cited before ?

_________________
It is not clear, how these two individuals merge into one person. It is not clear, who came back from Indiana, Orly Taitz or Lena. We have no idea, who is residing in the Taitz house: is it Orly Taitz or is it
Lena Lettmifeeenisch ? If it is Lena, what, happened to Orly Taitz ?
Lila Dubert


Top
 Profile  
 
Display posts from previous:  Sort by  
Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 169 posts ]  Go to page Previous  1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7  Next   

All times are UTC - 5 hours [ DST ]


Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 2 guests


You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot post attachments in this forum

Jump to:  
View new posts | View active topics



Powered by phpBB® Forum Software © phpBB Group