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PostPosted: Tue Jul 03, 2012 11:33 pm 
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Occupation: NOTICE: I am on this board for the purpose of intelligent discussion. If you disagree with my point of view and want to discuss and debate ideas in a civil and respectful manner, I am happy to engage and participate. But if you want to make things personal through insults, ad hominem, and deliberately mischaracterizing what I have said -- sorry, I won't engage with trolls.
NPR has a good feature on this issue:
http://www.npr.org/blogs/itsallpolitics ... t=1&f=1001


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PostPosted: Mon Jul 09, 2012 12:35 am 
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Reagan Appointee Judge Posner checks in:

Quote:
“I’ve become less conservative since the Republican Party started becoming goofy,” Posner said.

Posner’s remarks are likely to delight the left, although this isn’t his first liberal embrace. Early in his career, he served under progressive lions such as former Supreme Court Justices William Brennan and Thurgood Marshall, but Posner veered toward the right after he began teaching at Stanford Law School in the late 1960s. Since his 1981 nomination by Reagan, he has become one of the most widely respected conservative judicial thinkers and one of its most prolific writers. He is a lecturer at University of Chicago Law School and has written dozens of books on law and economics. In recent years, however, Posner has grown disillusioned with his erstwhile allies on the right.

The latest bit of right-wing goofiness to draw Posner’s ire: the speculation over the Affordable Care Act decision. Posner called the conspiracy theories that seek to explain Chief Justice John Roberts’ opinion to uphold the law a “very serious mistake” on the part of conservatives. Roberts, Posner suggested, might also realize that he has no home on the right.

“I mean, what would you do if you were Roberts?” Posner said. “All the sudden you find out that the people you thought were your friends have turned against you, they despise you, they mistreat you, they leak to the press. What do you do? Do you become more conservative? Or do you say, ‘What am I doing with this crowd of lunatics?’ Right? Maybe you have to re-examine your position.”

http://tpmdc.talkingpointsmemo.com/2012 ... -goofy.php

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PostPosted: Mon Jul 09, 2012 1:15 am 
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Plutodog wrote:
Reagan Appointee Judge Posner checks in:

Quote:
“I’ve become less conservative since the Republican Party started becoming goofy,” Posner said.


I have long admired Posner's intellect while being resigned to the fact that his politics appalled me. I'm glad that he, too, can recognize insanity when he sees it.

As The Most Brilliant Judge in America Who Will Never be on the Supreme Court, I suppose he can now say whatever he thinks.

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PostPosted: Mon Jul 09, 2012 2:24 am 
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A little right-wing craziness from a Facebook exchange with my godsister.

A few days ago, I posted this because I'd been sharing a lot of infographics and the like about ACA:

"I have not had health insurance for SIX YEARS.

I've tried buying it on many occasions, but being fat is a "pre-existing condition" despite the fact that my blood pressure, cholesterol and blood sugar are all "spectacular" according to the doctor at the local clinic.

Oh, the insurance companies are happy to sell me a policy that costs almost as much per month as my RENT, but since I like being able to eat and have a roof over my head, I have had to go without.

Because I live in the glorious Socialist, Fascist, Communist, Whateverist Workers' Paradise of San Francisco, I'm not without some kind of healthcare coverage. Thank GAWD.

The Healthy San Francisco program is funded by Medi-Cal and an additional San Francisco tax. For a ridiculously low premium and co-pay, I can visit my local clinic to get basic care, and go to SF General for emergency services.

(So, thank you, my fellow California taxpayers, for helping to cover my medical expenses because insurance companies have decided I'm too much of a risk to their bottom line.)

However, outside of San Francisco, I'm screwed.

If I'm visiting my brother in Sacramento and fall and break my leg, I'd have him drive me back to SF so I could go to General.

If I suddenly develop appendicitis while at Comic-Con, the cost of a last-minute flight back to SF would be cheaper than the cost of emergency surgery in San Diego, which would ruin me financially.

These are very real things I have to consider because, until the Affordable Care Act (or, if you prefer, Obamacare), insurance companies could deny anybody coverage for any reason - or no reason at all - and drop people who'd faithfully paid their premiums for years.

So now I, and 50 million other Americans, have the opportunity to spend our own money to buy coverage that we either didn't have at all or had thanks to state-financed programs.

I got a letter from Kaiser yesterday - the same Kaiser that's told me several times to either pony up a fortune in premiums or go pound sand and hasn't tried to sell me anything for years - about policies they have available.

A week after the SCOTUS decision. Coincidence?

So, if I'm even more of a militant bitch about ACA than other political causes, now you know why. ;)"


My godsister's response?
"Yes... But when you hit 75, all major health care procedures will have to be approved by committee and if they say no, you get the boot and are left for dead....no matter what insurance you have. So I guess I should start planning my Mom's services, right???"

I literally flailed at the screen and shouted "Death panels! She actually believes in death panels?!?!?!"

I and two of my friends posted links to Snopes and other sites debunking the that lie.

Her response to the facts and information presented to her?
"Really well my info came from someone inside the capital. Politicians lie and words to trick people. I guess we will see in the nest few years when people suddenly realize that our constitutional rights have vanished. I'll be ready...hope you are. I will keep my guns, bible and you can keep all his bs change!!!"

](*,) ](*,) ](*,) ](*,) ](*,) ](*,) ](*,) ](*,)

For the record, she and her husband live in nowhere Siskyou County near Mt. Shasta and run a convenience store. I'm sure her source "inside the capital" is either a talking head on Fox or a chain email. And what's galling is that she and her husband are POOR but not only vote against their own interests, but advocate for others to do the same. She's only 40, so I can't blame it on her being old and scared. I'll just say she's a "low information" voter and scared.

I just let it die, though I desperately wanted to ask her when the government started collecting people's guns and bibles.

Thank God she lives in California and her Rmoney vote will be for naught.

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PostPosted: Mon Jul 09, 2012 2:34 am 
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You must be very interested in who that person is "inside the capital", Tav. Surely your god-relative won't withhold that vital info from you?

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PostPosted: Mon Jul 09, 2012 10:57 am 
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Vermont is moving towards single payer. California will not be far behind. Other blue states will probably follow.

http://www.reuters.com/article/2011/05/ ... 1120110526

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PostPosted: Mon Jul 09, 2012 11:21 am 
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Plutodog wrote:
You must be very interested in who that person is "inside the capital", Tav. Surely your god-relative won't withhold that vital info from you?


I'm sure it's someone very high up the food chain. After all, we all know the folks at the local Gas 'N Sip are the only ones with true inside knowledge about what's happening on Capital Hill.

:roll:

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PostPosted: Mon Jul 09, 2012 1:55 pm 
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SCOTUSblog has an article on the nine minutes of press coverage during the decision, and how FOX and CNN were so wrong. I didn't know Bloomberg was first to report correctly, and the traders who read this made millions in minutes. Also, great links in the article, example: crazy Tea Party member Jean Schmidt, thinking her side won

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PostPosted: Mon Jul 09, 2012 4:45 pm 
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Knowing that there is video of Schmidt making an absolute ass of herself once again makes me happy, as does the imagined scene of how she felt when the reality hit. :mrgreen: I do wish I had that schadenfreudelicious video, too. :lol:

Do the good people of her former district realize now how well off they are without her? :lol: I can't imagine watching my (former) rep gloat over the demise of constituents' dreams.

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PostPosted: Mon Jul 09, 2012 5:54 pm 
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I doubt it. The guy who beat her in the primary challenged her from the RIGHT.

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PostPosted: Mon Jul 09, 2012 6:39 pm 
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TollandRCR wrote:
It would be worthwhile to study some of the scholarly articles that dissect why health care costs, especially hospital costs, have risen so rapidly in comparison to inflation. It is not simply doctors' income. We know it is not malpractice insurance. I'll try to do a bit of that research; help would be appreciated. A lot is available free at the National Library of Medicine.


To start, some links:

http://www.academyhealth.org/index.cfm

http://www.nlm.nih.gov/nichsr/

http://www.nlm.nih.gov/hsrinfo/

http://www.nlm.nih.gov/nichsr/edu/healthecon/

http://www.nlm.nih.gov/hsrinfo/datasites.html


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PostPosted: Mon Jul 09, 2012 6:58 pm 
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https://healthmeasures.aspe.hhs.gov/

This web tool enables the viewing of data on a given topical area from multiple sources, comparing trends across measures and national trends with those at the state and regional level. For example, an individual could use the Measurement Project to monitor the percentage of people who have a specific source of ongoing medical care or track avoidable hospitalizations for adults and children by region or ethnic group.

http://www.cdc.gov/mmwr/preview/ind2011_su.html

Health disparities are differences in health outcomes between groups that reflect social inequalities. Despite progress over the past 20 years in reducing this problem, racial/ethnic, economic and other social disparities in health still exists and need to be addressed. This report is the first in a periodic series examining health disparities in the United States.

Pretty sobering statistics :(


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PostPosted: Mon Jul 09, 2012 7:46 pm 
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Governor Good Hair was saying today (while turning down medicaid funds) that the US has "the greatest health care system in the world" which is just peachy, so long as you can afford it. I could say that the UK has the greatest car in the world in the Rolls Royce, which is great, so long as you can afford one. I could also say that the US has the greatest "McMansion houses" in the world, so long as you can afford to buy one. There was a story about a woman who went to the Emergency Room for her primary care. She complained of headaches, spider bites, and heartburn. Someone at a site I read daily said "well if you are going to go to the ER for such TRIVIAL things" cause yeah, a headache could be an indicator of a brain tumor, a spider bite could result in the loss of a limb, and heartburn could be the indicator of heart failure, but as far as this person was concerned, they were just "trivial" ailments that should be ignored. I hate these people.

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PostPosted: Mon Jul 09, 2012 8:48 pm 
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editorkorir wrote:
SCOTUSblog has an article on the nine minutes of press coverage during the decision, and how FOX and CNN were so wrong. I didn't know Bloomberg was first to report correctly, and the traders who read this made millions in minutes. Also, great links in the article, example: crazy Tea Party member Jean Schmidt, thinking her side won



You know, watching that again, I noticed something I didn't the first time I saw it: at the end, I do think we hear her getting the bad news. She is responding to the person on the phone, and says something unintelligible about a tax. Then she screeches "CONGRESS has to make it a tax!!!"


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PostPosted: Tue Jul 10, 2012 9:18 am 
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A story about what I think is a fake survey is making the rounds in conservative, Republican, and Tea Bagger media.

Daily Caller July 9, 2012 Report: 83 percent of doctors have considered quitting over Obamacare
Quote:
Eighty-three percent of American physicians have considered leaving their practices over President Barack Obama’s health care reform law, according to a survey released by the Doctor Patient Medical Association.

The DPMA, a non-partisan association of doctors and patients, surveyed a random selection of 699 doctors nationwide. The survey found that the majority have thought about bailing out of their careers over the legislation, which was upheld last month by the Supreme Court.

Doctor Patient Medical Association About the survey
Quote:
The survey was conducted by fax and online from April 18 to May 22, 2012. DPMAF obtained the office fax numbers of 36,000 doctors in active clinical practice, and 16, 227 faxes were successfully delivered. Doctors were asked to return their completed surveys by fax, or online at a web address included in the faxed copy. Browser rules prevented doctors from filing duplicate surveys, and respondents were asked to provide personal identification for verification. The response rate was 4.3% for a total of 699 completed surveys.

SourceWatch ALEC Exposed
Quote:
The Doctor Patient Medical Association (DPMA) and the Patient Power Alliance (PPA) work to repeal health care reform and call themselves a "a nonpartisan association of doctors and patients dedicated to preserving free choice in medicine." The organization is a member of the National Tea Party Federation and the "American Grassroots Coalition."

The DPMA is a member of the American Legislative Exchange Council (ALEC). DPMA Chair and Co-Founder, Kathryn Serkes, is on ALEC's Health and Human Services Task Force.

The American Medical Association and the American Academy of Family Physicians will not have comments until they have reviewed the methodology and results of the "survey." They will have little trouble identifying the fatal methodological flaws, and they will surely pay attention to the lies about the provenance of the survey. Despite that, this garbage may make the national news. It will add to fears that patients will lose access to the doctors they prefer. It will also add to fears that the nation will face a crisis in health care providers.

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PostPosted: Tue Jul 10, 2012 9:43 am 
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Quote:
Poll: ‘Obamacare’ Gains Support, Public Opinion Now Split

Americans are now evenly split over the Affordable Care Act, according to a new poll released Tuesday.

In the latest ABC News/Washington Post poll, 47 percent say they support the measure signed into law by President Barack Obama in 2010, while 47 percent are opposed. The health care overhaul has gained support since the ABC News/Washington Post survey in April, when 53 percent were opposed to “Obamacare” and only 39 percent supported the law.

There’s a comparable split when it comes to opinon of the Supreme Court’s decision to uphold the Affordable Care Act: 42 percent approve of the court’s ruling, compared with 44 percent who disapprove.


http://livewire.talkingpointsmemo.com/e ... ?ref=fpblg

-xx

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PostPosted: Tue Jul 10, 2012 9:48 am 
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TollandRCR wrote:
Doctor Patient Medical Association About the survey
Quote:
The survey was conducted by fax and online from April 18 to May 22, 2012. DPMAF obtained the office fax numbers of 36,000 doctors in active clinical practice, and 16, 227 faxes were successfully delivered. Doctors were asked to return their completed surveys by fax, or online at a web address included in the faxed copy. Browser rules prevented doctors from filing duplicate surveys, and respondents were asked to provide personal identification for verification. The response rate was 4.3% for a total of 699 completed surveys.


This doesn't sound to me like a survey. It sounds like a possibly illegal junk fax operation.

Less than 1 in 20 responded. These are the doctors who apparently not only have time to go personally through the piles of garbage that come out of any doctor's fax machine, but actually self-selected to respond. What kind of doctor has time to do that? What kind of doctor chooses to respond to a push poll like this?

Just from their own description, my opinion is this "survey" is complete garbage and was possibly illegal to conduct in the manner they did it.

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PostPosted: Tue Jul 10, 2012 2:45 pm 
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weigel posted about that survey last night.

About That "83 Percent of Doctors Hate Obamacare So Much, They Might Quit" Poll

By David Weigel
Posted Monday, July 9, 2012, at 5:12 PM ET


Quote:
Intriguing. What's the Doctor Patient Medical Association? Nelson refers to it as "a non-partisan association of doctors and patients." But lots of organizations claim to be "non-partisan." The DPMA's co-founder, quoted here, is Kathryn Serkes. She's "non-partisan" in the sense that she worked for a conservative Republican in the 2010 Washington state race for U.S. Senate, and appeared alongside Republican members of Congress at Tea Party rallies against the Affordable Care Act. Her partner at the top is Mark Schiller, M.D., who's also a fellow at the Pacific Research Institute, and the author of a classic 2009 column about how "Obamacare" would succeed by helping to kill sick people.


you can read the whole post here:
http://www.slate.com/blogs/weigel/2012/ ... _poll.html


I don't know why dave took off most of a month, but he seems to be back posting regularly now.

http://www.slate.com/blogs/weigel.html

whew!

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PostPosted: Tue Jul 10, 2012 3:30 pm 
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TexasFilly wrote:
Quote:
Poll: ‘Obamacare’ Gains Support, Public Opinion Now Split

Americans are now evenly split over the Affordable Care Act, according to a new poll released Tuesday.


I think that support is going to grow tremendously thanks to the insurance companies. I have one of those high deductible extortion policies where I pay them every month and they only pay 80% of what I spend over $5000 per year. (I doubt I spend more than $200) Anyway… I got a letter from them yesterday with “important updates” advising me of all the “stuff” I’m now entitled to thanks to the affordable care act. There was a whole list of stuff that wasn’t even covered before. If everyone starts getting letters like that lots of people may finally get to see just how much the ACA will benefit them in ways they are not going to want to give up. :D

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PostPosted: Tue Jul 10, 2012 4:47 pm 
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A caller to the Stephanie Miller show today said that at a teaparty meeting she went to they said they not only plan to overturn PPACA but also the mandate that hospitals have to treat people even if they have no insurance.

These people are freaking nuts.

Unless they are as rich as Rmoney, how can anyone be so stupid as to not realize that they and their loved ones are just one accident or injury away from being unemployed and uninsured?

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PostPosted: Tue Jul 10, 2012 6:45 pm 
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Sequoia32 wrote:
A caller to the Stephanie Miller show today said that at a teaparty meeting she went to they said they not only plan to overturn PPACA but also the mandate that hospitals have to treat people even if they have no insurance.


Boy are they going to be surprised when they find out the law doesn't say what they think it says.


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PostPosted: Tue Jul 10, 2012 7:10 pm 
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MsDaisy wrote:
TexasFilly wrote:
Quote:
Poll: ‘Obamacare’ Gains Support, Public Opinion Now Split

Americans are now evenly split over the Affordable Care Act, according to a new poll released Tuesday.


I think that support is going to grow tremendously thanks to the insurance companies. I have one of those high deductible extortion policies where I pay them every month and they only pay 80% of what I spend over $5000 per year. (I doubt I spend more than $200) Anyway… I got a letter from them yesterday with “important updates” advising me of all the “stuff” I’m now entitled to thanks to the affordable care act. There was a whole list of stuff that wasn’t even covered before. If everyone starts getting letters like that lots of people may finally get to see just how much the ACA will benefit them in ways they are not going to want to give up. :D


Well, sure. That's why many Progressives were pissed at Obama: they saw this as a way to enrich the insurance companies! OTOH, it does, indeed provide great benefits to insureds that they never had before. For example, thank goodness you are healthy and don't use your insurance much. But, as you well know, one major illness or one serious accident, and that $5000 will be used up quickly, and then some. Prior to the ACA, the insurance company could just cancel you if they had to start paying out money for your bills. Not any more. Nor can folks with pre-existing conditions be denied insurance. And there are already 2.1 million young people who are staying on their parents' insurance policies as a result of this law. Are the Goopers really prepared to take away these benefits? It looks like some of them are starting to say "no", we'll keep that, and that, and that. It will be interesting to watch Rmoney, if he ever faces some real reporters, answer those kind of questions. BTW, WTF are his tax returns? ;;)

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PostPosted: Wed Jul 11, 2012 10:34 am 
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Heh. Pete Sessions (R-TX) has a poll up on his website:

Quote:
Should Congress have passed “Obamacare?”

Yes 54.66%
No 45.34%


http://www.petesessions.com/ :lol:

You, too, can vote there (on the right side, click on "You Make The Vote"). \:D/

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PostPosted: Wed Jul 11, 2012 10:56 am 
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TexasFilly wrote:
Heh. Pete Sessions (R-TX) has a poll up on his website:

Quote:
Should Congress have passed “Obamacare?”

Yes 54.66%
No 45.34%


http://www.petesessions.com/ :lol:

You, too, can vote there (on the right side, click on "You Make The Vote"). \:D/


I voted. Now the results are: :-bd

Should Congress have passed “Obamacare?”

Yes 57.02%
No 42.98%

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PostPosted: Wed Jul 11, 2012 11:36 am 
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Yes 57.5%
No 42.5%

8-)


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