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PostPosted: Sat Oct 15, 2011 7:51 pm 
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PostPosted: Sat Oct 15, 2011 8:21 pm 
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For once, Michelle Bachman seems either smarter or better-informed than Rush Limbaugh. It is also conceivable that she is less evil.

Foreign Policy Passport (blog) October 15, 2011 "Rush Limbaugh on Lord's Resistance Army: Obama Invades Uganda, Targets Christians"
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Then, after a break, he (sort of) realizes his mistake:

Quote:
Is that right? The Lord's Resistance Army is being accused of really bad stuff? Child kidnapping, torture, murder, that kind of stuff? Well, we just found out about this today. We're gonna do, of course, our due diligence research on it. But nevertheless we got a hundred troops being sent over there to fight these guys -- and they claim to be Christians.

It takes your breath away, doesn't it?

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PostPosted: Mon Oct 17, 2011 10:05 am 
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Here is a transcript of Limbaugh's tirade about Obama sending advisers to fight Joseph Kony.

I hope that this will really hurt Limbaugh but suspect the ditto-heads see nothing wrong with what he said.

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PostPosted: Mon Oct 17, 2011 10:12 am 
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Mikedunford wrote:
Sterngard Friegen wrote:
When you're a country with 850 overseas military installations, if you don't use 'em you don't keep 'em sharp.

(I, for one, would like to see the number reduced to maybe 10 overseas bases. Then we could re-build our infrastructure.)


This might be worth a separate thread, since it's an issue that's come up in a few threads recently. If so, or if it's too offtopic, the greenies should feel free to split this off.


The whole 850 overseas military installations thing has always sounded way too high to me. I don't doubt that we've got a lot of bases, but the number seemed really strange, particularly since I've never seen it given with a primary source. This morning, I finally got a few minutes to do a bit of poking around. [...]


Thanks for explaining that, Mike.

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PostPosted: Mon Oct 17, 2011 12:42 pm 
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TPMDC today: How The U.S. Came To Fight The Lord’s Resistance Army

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PostPosted: Mon Oct 17, 2011 4:52 pm 
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From Adelante's TPM link--the concluding paragraphs:

Quote:
So, the deployment is hardly out of the blue, is not somehow anti-Christian in nature and does not seem likely to provide a Jimmy Carter moment for President Obama. However, Limbaugh did raise one other question that might be on Americans' minds: "Would somebody explain to me what you think our "national security interests" are in Uganda?"

It's a fair question and the answer is necessarily somewhat complex. Bluntly, though, the answer boils down to goodwill and international order. If the LRA truly could be "finished" via a slight bump in U.S. involvement, then that could have a great impact on many people's lives. Beyond that humanitarian perspective, however, is the idea that it would ease the plight of several energy-rich countries, including the Democratic Republic of the Congo, which has enough problems as it is. Given the history of U.S. involvement that's probably enough to explain the deployment. Still, it probably doesn't hurt that northern Uganda, where the LRA originated, is also believed to have some rather large and rather untapped oil fields.

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PostPosted: Mon Oct 17, 2011 7:09 pm 
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Mikedunford wrote:
According to the 2010 report, there are 662 overseas sites, spread across 38 countries. That's not 850, but it's in the same order of magnitude, and adding US Embassies with Marine detachments to that would probably give us about 850, and many more countries.


Thanks for the legwork, Mike! =D> I believe that US Embassies are now protected by Xe (nee Blackwater) rather than the US Marine Corps (probably at a higher cost and lower quality...) which may explain why the number went down (if it was 850 earlier...).

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PostPosted: Mon Oct 17, 2011 7:24 pm 
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Slartibartfast wrote:
Mikedunford wrote:
According to the 2010 report, there are 662 overseas sites, spread across 38 countries. That's not 850, but it's in the same order of magnitude, and adding US Embassies with Marine detachments to that would probably give us about 850, and many more countries.


Thanks for the legwork, Mike! =D> I believe that US Embassies are now protected by Xe (nee Blackwater) rather than the US Marine Corps (probably at a higher cost and lower quality...) which may explain why the number went down (if it was 850 earlier...).


In the interests of clarity alone -

I wouldn't expect Embassies to be included in that report at all. The report focuses only on permanent DoD-owned infrastructure. The Embassies would be State Department owned, so they don't appear. Neither do the US bases in Iraq, Afghanistan, or other areas where we are fighting, probably because those are classed as non-permanent. (A substantial omission, that, which I failed to note earlier because I was in a bit of a hurry.)

The bottom line is really that the best answer is going to depend on how you define "base", and any definition is going to be a bit hazy. Personally, I think a better way of looking at it would be this: as of right now, there are approximately 12 foreign countries where (a) we own infrastructure; (b) we are not currently engaged in combat; and (c) we have more than 500 active duty military personnel stationed in that nation.

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PostPosted: Mon Oct 17, 2011 7:32 pm 
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Mike,

I think your metric is a much better gauge of a significant military presence than whatever "bases" mean - I agree that embassies shouldn't count, but I wouldn't be surprised if someone included their military contingents as "bases" to bulk up the numbers until they weren't manned by US soldiers any more.

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PostPosted: Tue Oct 18, 2011 7:11 am 
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PostPosted: Sun Mar 11, 2012 6:53 pm 
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Some Republicans, facing the prospect of defeat in the 2012 Presidential elections, have now turned to articles of impeachment. An Examiner.com blogger puts it:
Quote:
According to the Constitution, many are saying that they can under Article I, Section 8, of the Constitution which reserves for Congress alone the power to declare war, a restriction that has been sorely tested in recent years, including Obama’s authorization of military force in Libya; as well as sending troops to Africa to help hunt down Joseph Kony?

There has been a bill introduced to impeach President Obama on ‘high crime and misdemeanor’ charges should he send military troops for acts of war against other countries without approval of the Congress. Syria is the nation in focus this time.

According to an article by Drew Zahn in the World Net Daily publication there has been a bill introduced by Rep. Walter B. Jones, a Republican from North Carolina. The bill is declaring that should Obama use offensive military force without authorization of an act of Congress he would be violating the Constitution and his oath of the office. You can also see a timer on this site ticking off the ever increasing national debt.

This has been accompanied by an attack upon the organization that has been pushing for U.S. aid to the Ugandan Army, Invisible Children, and specifically on the amazingly viral video, Kony 2012. Washington Post March 10, 2012 The controversy over Kony 2012. Washington Post March 9, 2012 Invisible Children’s ‘Kony 2012’ video goes viral — but what does this mean?. Photo gallery

I perceive this to be primarily an attempt to attack President Obama, without regard to the children of the region in which Kony operates and without regard to morality. However, it is also an attack upon the premise of the entire movement of the people to express their power, whether it is OWS or Invisible Children or the unions in Wisconsin.
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It's always been that the decisions made by the few, with the money and the power, dictated the priorities of their government and the stories in the media. They determine the lives and the opportunities of their citizens. But now there is something bigger than that. The people of the world see each other and can protect each other. It's turning the system upside down, and it changes everything.

This must be terribly frightening to the reactionaries.
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PostPosted: Sun Mar 11, 2012 7:21 pm 
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I disagree with this:

Quote:
I perceive this to be primarily an attempt to attack President Obama, without regard to the children of the region in which Kony operates and without regard to morality. However, it is also an attack upon the premise of the entire movement of the people to express their power, whether it is OWS or Invisible Children or the unions in Wisconsin.


I've been following this because my college-aged kids have been VERY interested in it, particularly my progressive daughter. There is a lot of concern about this operation, its funding, its ties to fundies, and so forth, and many questions are being raised by progressives. I wouldn't characterize the controversy in those terms, at least not at this point. Perhaps my viewpoint is skewed. I'm going to look more carefully.

There's a lot going on and it's really a complicated mess.

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PostPosted: Sun Mar 11, 2012 7:57 pm 
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While I'm not at all skeptical about Kony and his crimes against humanity, I AM bloody skeptical about the crowd that is promoting KONY2012. After "Liking" the video, I now feel somewhat used.

Quote:
Invisible Children "Kony 2012" Leader Suggests It's About Jesus and Evangelizing

March 8, 2012
"A lot of people fear Christians, they fear Liberty University, they fear Invisible Children - because they feel like we have an agenda. They see us and they go, "You want me to sign up for something, you want my money. You want, you want me to believe in your God." And it freaks them out." --- Jason Russell, speaking at Liberty University, November 7, 2011

Is Invisible Children a nonprofit devoted to human needs, or is it a ministry devoted to bringing souls to Jesus? Judging by a talk co-founder Jason Russell gave last November at Liberty University, it would seem to be a bit of both.

A few days ago, Russell's Invisible Children nonprofit began to blitz the Internet with posts on social media promoting the nonprofit's new KONY 2012 video, which by now has received over 36 million hits. The media campaign has already provoked a backlash of well informed criticism, from academics and other with expertise concerning Joseph Kony and the LRA, and the conflict in Northern Uganda and the surrounding region (see links and material, below transcript).
Foreign Affairs charges Invisible Children with misrepresenting the facts, and Foreign Affairs guest contributor Michael Wilkerson notes the deceptive nature of the KONY 2012 video, narrated by Jason Russell, which mentions only in passing that Joseph Kony is no longer in Northern Uganda (his LRA hasn't operated there for years).

More at the link


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PostPosted: Sun Mar 11, 2012 8:17 pm 
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This tirade from Rush Limbaugh is not consistent with Invisible Children being a fundamentalist evangelical group. October 14, 2011 "Obama Invades Uganda, Targets Christians". Of course, Limbaugh may not have known whereof he spake. It has happened before.

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PostPosted: Sun Mar 11, 2012 9:14 pm 
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A collection from the evangelical Christian Post of
Quote:

The Liberty University convocation:



Quote:
Russell: People are scared. Of Liberty University. [Addresses graduating students] You guys know this. They're scared because they see the power and potential in this room, the conviction you have, the connectivity you have. And they look at this arena and they go, "that's scary - if they realized what they could do, it would revolutionize the world." That's why you're here.

And so I think that it is that insecurity or that realizing, "I don't have what it takes" - but you DO. We DO. And, the trick is to not go out into the world and say, "I'm going to baptize you, I'm going to convict you, I have an agenda to win you over."

You agenda is to look into the eyes, as Jesus did, and say, "who are you? And will you be my friend?" - Like he did to the prostitutes, the tax collectors, the fisherman. The biggest mistake that we make is to saying, we make a line and we say, "black, white, are you in or are you out?"

I just, I have a hard time digesting that mentality. And I think that's why a lot of people fear Christians, they fear Liberty University, they fear Invisible Children because they feel like we have an agenda. They see us and they go, "You want me to sign up for something, you want my money. You want, you want me to believe in your God.

And it freaks them out.

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PostPosted: Mon Mar 12, 2012 4:51 am 
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Interestingly I was reading an article in the Irish times on saturday that said the LRA has been largely broken and driven out of Uganda, and may be down to as few as 250 men.

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PostPosted: Mon Mar 12, 2012 8:13 am 
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Suranis wrote:
Interestingly I was reading an article in the Irish times on saturday that said the LRA has been largely broken and driven out of Uganda, and may be down to as few as 250 men.

I am not sure about the size of the remaining force and doubt that anyone is, but the LRA has indeed mostly been driven out of Uganda to surrounding countries, as noted in Kony 2012. That is why Kony 2012 is about arresting Joseph Kony for trial in the International Criminal Court. He is at the top of ICC's list for arrest and prosecution. Background in March 9, 2012 Jurist. 2005 arrest warrant.

Pursuit and arrest is what many of us had wanted for Osama bin Laden, rather than war. If this pursuit is successful, I suppose the hope is that others now on the list will be found and arrested, without going to war.

This could be a revolutionary change in how the U.S. and other countries deal with those who commit atrocities.

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PostPosted: Mon Mar 12, 2012 9:21 am 
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Christian Science Monitor March 12, 2012 "Kony 2012: Director of video agrees with critics"
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"It definitely oversimplifies the issue. This video is not the answer, it's just the gateway into the conversation. And we made it quick and oversimplified on purpose," he said. "We are proud that it is simple. We like that. And we want you to keep investigating, we want you to read the history."


Quote:
The chief prosecutor of the International Criminal Court (ICC) says that he supports Kony 2012, the campaign to capture alleged Ugandan war criminal Joseph Kony.

Louis Moreno Ocampo told the BBC Monday that the social media campaign by Invisible Children had "mobilized the world." The ICC issued an arrest warrant for Kony in 2005.

Invisible Children is a student movement. Much of its funding goes towards sending former child soldiers to speak to groups of students in America and Europe, and to make films that will compel attention to an atrocity that has befouled Central Africa since 1986.

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PostPosted: Mon Mar 12, 2012 10:19 am 
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It seems that Kony 2012 is all about Uganda's oil. And a permanent U.S. military force on the African continent.



If there are hundreds or thousands of brutal warlords in Africa, why should we be interested in arresting just one of them?

/ridicule

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PostPosted: Mon Mar 12, 2012 11:18 am 
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TollandRCR wrote:
If there are hundreds or thousands of brutal warlords in Africa, why should we be interested in arresting just one of them?

/ridicule


Well, we have to start somewhere, and Kony is particularly bad. It is an unfortunate matter of politics that often we can't go after every single bastard out there. I may not support whatever organization is pushing this issue, for some collateral advantage, but the elimination of Kony as a threat would be an objective net benefit for the world.

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PostPosted: Mon Mar 12, 2012 11:27 am 
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The test of the true intentions of Invisible Children will come when Kony is arrested. With their level of organization and student support, it could turn to another meaning of "invisible children" -- the children who die before, during, or shortly after birth, the children who die before age six, and the children whose lives are forever stunted by what they have lacked by way of food, health care, education, or jobs.

If we want to reduce the fertility rate in high-fertility countries, we must first (a) reduce infant and child mortality and (b) empower women to control their own fertility. That would not be a bad second act for Invisible Children, and if they fire up a generation of college students to those causes, more power to them. Africa has been too long ignored.

There are some Americans who would prefer that it continue to be ignored. It is a place of poverty, corruption, war, disease, and early death: why get involved in that mess? Put a bell jar over it and open the bell jar in 25 years to see if anybody is left.

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PostPosted: Mon Mar 12, 2012 11:39 am 
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The fact that he is far less powerful now and therefore more vulnerable dosent hurt, sadly,

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PostPosted: Mon Mar 12, 2012 12:12 pm 
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The whole thing reminds me of something George Orwell wrote in 1941 or 1942. He had read an article by a former friend casting doubt on the portrayal of Franco as a criminal and replied "Franco and his gang were murderous criminals and it is not because some right-wing newspaper has just found that out and is writing about it, that they are any less murderous and criminal than they used to be".

It is not because the people who NOW accuse the LRA are ring-wing or fundie or otherwise politically dubious Johnny-come-latelies, that the LRA is any less murderous and criminal than they used to be AND that Limbaugh is any less ridiculous than he used to be:
http://www.rushlimbaugh.com/daily/2011/10/14/obama_invades_uganda_targets_christians :x

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PostPosted: Mon Mar 12, 2012 12:33 pm 
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Russell is right. I don't trust their agenda.

I worry - used to be excessively - about Liberty grads in our government. It's the stated intention of Liberty and Patrick Henry and some others to infiltrate the US government and "return" us to the Christian nation we we at the founding. :roll: They're deadly serious about it.

Remember, during the 80's they were instructed to get elected to school boards and city councils and work their way up to state offices, then national. This is what The Family is dedicated to, too. In some areas of the country, it worked. In others, the religious fervor wasn't a good match for the community and they were de-selected later on, but many of them are still around, working their way through our governments and making forward progress much more difficult.

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PostPosted: Mon Mar 12, 2012 7:26 pm 
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I am having trouble seeing the connection of James Russell to Liberty University. He was a guest there, flying in for their Fall convocation. I don't hear the veiled hints that he is on an evangelical mission for Liberty University or anybody else. I did hear that Russell is a Christian; I don't know what brand. Invisible Children sends its people all over the country to stir student interest in their cause; he might even have gone to Liberty University twice. If I were somehow to acquire an affiliation with every institution at which I have spoken, I would not only be greatly confused but probably also somewhat insulted.

The three people who founded Invisible Children -- Jason Russell, Bobby Bailey, and Laren Poole -- were film students who did a project for one of their classes. Their aim was to make a film about the war in Darfur. Instead, they encountered women whose children had been abducted by Joseph Kony. Their project changed, and their lives changed.

Russell and Bailey graduated from the University of Southern California, Russell with a degree in film production and Bailey with a degree in "cinema-television." Poole graduated from the University of California - San Diego with a degree in structural engineering.

I think they are what they set out to be: story-tellers. Story-tellers with a purpose.

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