Falsehoods unchallenged only fester and grow.


All times are UTC - 5 hours [ DST ]




Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 1068 posts ]  Go to page Previous  1 ... 23, 24, 25, 26, 27, 28, 29 ... 43  Next   
Author Message
PostPosted: Thu May 17, 2012 12:30 am 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Tue Oct 26, 2010 9:56 pm
Posts: 9377
neonzx wrote:
A Legal Lohengrin wrote:
Emma wrote:
What is "intermediate range" in terms of distance?


I'm not sure exactly, but I'd imagine it's out of rasslin' range.

Google. It's not.

Example. Other links confirm this range of distance.
Quote:
1. Close range (6 - 8 inches): The entrance wound is surrounded by fouling, which is soot that travels for a short distance from the gun barrel to be depositied on the skin. There may also be stippling (see below).

3. Intermediate range ( 6 - 8 inches to 1.5 - 3.5 feet): This is too far for soot to travel, so there is no fouling, but hot fragments of burning propellant (gunpowder) follow the bullet to the victim and produce stippling by causing pinpoint burns around the entrance wound. Of the two type of propellant, "ball" and "flake," the former will produce stippling at a greater distance.


Even at just eight inches, I'm finding it difficult to imagine the physical positions that lead to the scenario described. Zimmerman's weapon was described as being held in a concealed holster that would not have been visible. If they were fighting over the weapon and it discharged, what position were the parties in? If they're wrestling, they're in direct contact.

I'd still like to see a recreation of this that makes sense and where the gun is more than eight inches away.

_________________
L—d! said my mother, what is all this story about? — A Cock and a Bull, said Yorick — And one of the best of its kind I ever heard. -- Sterne


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Thu May 17, 2012 4:28 am 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Tue Jun 16, 2009 6:06 am
Posts: 4921
Location: Glocca Morra
A Legal Lohengrin wrote:


I'd still like to see a recreation of this that makes sense and where the gun is more than eight inches away.


Think Rosemary Woods and the 18 Minute Gap.

_________________
"What's it like being an atheist? It's like being the only sober person in a car full of drunks, and they refuse to let you drive." Thomas Jefferson

Birtherism is so ridiculous that I no longer feel obligated to treat proponents w/slightest degree of respect or civility


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Thu May 17, 2012 6:21 am 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Sat Nov 20, 2010 8:04 am
Posts: 5251
I know this isn't a popular opinion, but based on the LACK of evidence here I don't think I would convict him if I was on a jury. How could I, given a presumption of innocence and the lack of recorded evidence?

However I'd be recommending massive sanctions against the police department for fucking up the case against someone who was, by all accounts and the evidence, a gigantic pain in the ass for them.

_________________
You cannot kill what has no life...


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Thu May 17, 2012 1:46 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Sat Apr 16, 2011 12:40 am
Posts: 5518
Occupation: retired
Quote:
I know this isn't a popular opinion, but based on the LACK of evidence here I don't think I would convict him if I was on a jury. How could I, given a presumption of innocence and the lack of recorded evidence?

It's much too early to say there is a LACK of evidence. Just because the AG has not presented everything they have does not mean that her team did not have what they needed to charge the way they did. Also, if the AG releases evidence damaging to Zimmerman, they can accused of tainting the prospective jury pool. Until the trial itself, releases are probably going to be favoring Zimmerman and not the prosecution.

_________________
Mark Twain
Quote:
Research shows that 87.666 per cent of all statistics are made up.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Thu May 17, 2012 7:26 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Fri Jan 23, 2009 1:33 pm
Posts: 23562
From the Orlando Sentinel...

Encounter between George Zimmerman and Trayvon Martin 'avoidable,' cops said in report
By Jeff Weiner and Rene Stutzman, Orlando Sentinel


7:10 p.m. EST, May 17, 2012


Quote:
JACKSONVILLE – Newly released evidence in the case against George Zimmerman shows that Sanford Police believed the encounter between Zimmerman and Trayvon Martin was "ultimately avoidable," if Zimmerman had "remained in his vehicle and awaited the arrival of law enforcement," according to hundreds of pages of evidence in the case released this afternoon.

The evidence — released by Special Prosecutor Angela Corey's office late Thursday — includes a photocopy of a picture taken of George Zimmerman at the scene of the shooting. In it, he has a bloody nose.

[...]

FDLE firearms expert Amy Siewert examined Trayvon's gray sweatshirt and gray hoodie and wrote this about the gunpowder burns: "Both holes displayed residues and physical effects consistent with a contact shot."
Translation: The gun was touching Trayvon's clothing when Zimmerman pulled the trigger.


The autopsy report says there was THC — the active chemical found in marijuana — in Trayvon's blood and urine.


more at the linky dinky... much more

RELATED: Pictures: Evidence photos released in the shooting death of Trayvon Martin

Evidence photos released by the Fourth Circuit Court State Attorney's Office in the shooting death of teen Trayvon Martin. Sanford resident George Zimmerman has been charged with manslaughter in Martin's death.
Image 1 of 46

_________________
Let us tenderly and kindly cherish, therefore, the means of knowledge. Let us dare to read, think, speak, and write.
John Adams


ImageImage


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Thu May 17, 2012 8:30 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Tue Mar 10, 2009 9:27 am
Posts: 4216
realist wrote:
From the Orlando Sentinel...
Quote:
The autopsy report says there was THC — the active chemical found in marijuana — in Trayvon's blood and urine.

:-k THC in his blood?
IIRC, THC metabolizes out of the blood within a few hours (and you 'lose your high'). Not that I have first-hand knowlege :- but it is my understanding that people who are high on just weed (no other recreational drugs or alcohol) are not going to initiate a physically fight with anyone.

_________________
@Orly: "No one is listening to you anymore. And that’s the way it should always be." - Scott J. Tepper (11/5/2012)


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Thu May 17, 2012 8:40 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Sat Apr 16, 2011 12:40 am
Posts: 5518
Occupation: retired
Other reports use the term 'traces' of THC were found in the blood and urine. A number of sites I looked at said that cannabis metabolites can be found days or even weeks after usage has stopped.

http://www.idmu.co.uk/drugtestcan.htm

_________________
Mark Twain
Quote:
Research shows that 87.666 per cent of all statistics are made up.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Thu May 17, 2012 8:49 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Tue Oct 26, 2010 9:56 pm
Posts: 9377
realist wrote:
From the Orlando Sentinel...

Quote:
FDLE firearms expert Amy Siewert examined Trayvon's gray sweatshirt and gray hoodie and wrote this about the gunpowder burns: "Both holes displayed residues and physical effects consistent with a contact shot."
Translation: The gun was touching Trayvon's clothing when Zimmerman pulled the trigger.


Incidentally, this is what I would expect if Zimmerman's story was true. Which firearms expert is correct here?

I imagine the defense will be able to use this contradiction. The question is did one expert use better methods? A contact gunshot is quite different from one at range.

_________________
L—d! said my mother, what is all this story about? — A Cock and a Bull, said Yorick — And one of the best of its kind I ever heard. -- Sterne


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Thu May 17, 2012 9:03 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Fri Jan 23, 2009 1:33 pm
Posts: 23562
FWIW...

http://www.archivesofpathology.org/doi/ ... 2.0.CO%3B2

Quote:
The principle indicator of close range fire is stippling,
that is, a pattern of tiny, punctuate abrasions in the skin
surrounding the entrance wound (Figure 8). Stippling is
caused by unburned particles of gunpowder striking the
skin. In contrast to other substances that may be deposited
on the skin, such as soot, stippling cannot be washed
away. The presence of stippling indicates that the muzzle
of the gun was within 2 feet of the victim’s body when it
was discharged. Contact range firing occurs when the
muzzle of the gun is in contact with the skin at the time
of discharge (Figure 2). Contact range wounds are commonly
seen in suicidal firearm injuries. These wounds are
often characterized by a dense pattern of combusted gunpowder
residue or soot within and around the wound
margin. Soot is lighter in weight than unburned particles
of gunpowder. Most of the soot will, therefore, only carry
a few inches from the muzzle of the gun before falling
away. Unlike stippling, soot may be washed away. If a
forensic pathologist sees soot, he or she should photograph
it before cleaning the body in preparation for the
autopsy


Quote:
Figure 8. Close-range gunshot wound showing dark circular soot deposition
with surrounding punctuate stippling.

Distant range gunshot wounds, that is, wounds inflicted
when the muzzle of the gun is more that 2 feet away, will
show no evidence of soot or stippling
. It is absolutely critical
that the forensic pathologist recognizes that the absence
of soot or stippling does not absolutely mean that
the wound was not fired from close range. Intermediate
targets and clothing can screen out stippling and soot
even when the muzzle of the gun is pressed up against
the clothing.10 The most accurate way to determine range
of fire is to test fire the weapon at various distances with
the same type of ammunition to create a pattern of soot
or stippling matching that found at the time of autopsy.
Muzzle to garment testing, as this technique is sometimes
called, is ordinarily done by a ballistics expert in a crime
laboratory. Clothing can also be tested for the presence of
gunpowder residue to determine whether, for example, a
bullet caused a particular defect in the clothing. This type
of testing cannot establish range of fire, but it can give the
maximum distance from which the gun was fired based
on the distance the gunpowder residue may travel.


I didn't copy the pics over, just in case some are squeamish. :P

_________________
Let us tenderly and kindly cherish, therefore, the means of knowledge. Let us dare to read, think, speak, and write.
John Adams


ImageImage


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Fri May 18, 2012 8:51 am 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Tue Sep 08, 2009 3:24 pm
Posts: 6634
Offtopic :
Quote:
cannabis metabolites can be found days or even weeks after usage has stopped.

Something everybody who's subject to random drug tests in the workplace knows.


As for the story about Martin having injuries to his knuckles, apparently it was one scratch on his left ring finger. It's funny, it looks like FoxNews is the only news source reporting the autopsy report lists a single injury, one knuckle.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Fri May 18, 2012 11:57 am 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Tue Jan 18, 2011 12:48 am
Posts: 4574
Occupation: Professional pain in the ass.
Any thoughts on why the prosecution is releasing evidence?

_________________
Pity the poor Birthers, for they know not how to Think.

Turning the Scale.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Fri May 18, 2012 12:16 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Sat Apr 16, 2011 12:40 am
Posts: 5518
Occupation: retired
BFB wrote:
Any thoughts on why the prosecution is releasing evidence?


Florida Sunshine Law? I did not get the impression this was released by the prosecutors but by the local agencies involved.

_________________
Mark Twain
Quote:
Research shows that 87.666 per cent of all statistics are made up.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Fri May 18, 2012 12:20 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Tue Oct 26, 2010 9:56 pm
Posts: 9377
BFB wrote:
Any thoughts on why the prosecution is releasing evidence?


I'm not sure if it is a strategic choice or if they are required to do so. Florida has very strong public records laws and the media are demanding records. They would likely go to court if they did not get them.

If it's a discretionary choice, it is questionable.

_________________
L—d! said my mother, what is all this story about? — A Cock and a Bull, said Yorick — And one of the best of its kind I ever heard. -- Sterne


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Fri May 18, 2012 12:29 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Fri Jan 23, 2009 1:33 pm
Posts: 23562
According to a statement by Zimmerman's attorney late last week, once evidence is exchanged between the prosecution and defense it normally becomes public record.

I assume this may be peculiar to FL law, but there was no statement to that effect or cite to any law in the article.

Quote:
n a statement, attorney Mark O'Mara said the first round of documents are expected to be turned over to the defense on Monday as part of a process called discovery.

Normally, when evidence is exchanged between the state and defense it becomes public record, but O'Mara said that may not happen right away in this case.

"Public release... may be delayed as we may be filing a motion to further redact information, and an opportunity to review the discovery is necessary to determine the applicability of that motion," the statement says.

"While we understand the frustration of those who want to view the information as soon as possible, we believe that Mr. Zimmerman's right to a fair trial, decided by an impartial, unbiased jury is paramount," O'Mara said.


http://articles.orlandosentinel.com/201 ... ic-release

_________________
Let us tenderly and kindly cherish, therefore, the means of knowledge. Let us dare to read, think, speak, and write.
John Adams


ImageImage


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Fri May 18, 2012 3:20 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Mon May 23, 2011 7:33 pm
Posts: 3502
It's unfortunate the unarmed teenager didn't bash the gun-wielding stalker to death. Standing his ground with his fists is the only option Martin had to save his life.

What a terrifying battle, for a seventeen-year-old. Too bad the murderer won.

I'm glad Zimmerman got whacked in the nose and smacked on the head.

I hope it hurt.

_________________
"What are you talking about, 99? We have to shoot and kill and destroy - we represent everything that's wholesome and good in the world." - Maxwell Smart
ImageImage


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Sat May 19, 2012 7:53 am 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Tue Oct 06, 2009 6:13 pm
Posts: 499
Location: At my desk in my laundry room
Occupation: Business Owner
I was pouring the the documents and found that Zimmerman was prescribed Adderall and Temazepam. I wonder what his diagnosis was. If it were a mental illness, then that would have disqualified him from having a concealed and carry permit under current laws.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Sat May 19, 2012 9:05 am 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Thu Sep 30, 2010 2:02 pm
Posts: 10988
Location: Stalag 13 Okanagan, WA 98840
Occupation: Drone Maintenance Officer - FAA Licensed and Certified "We Fix Drones©" Call (206) 622-0460 to schedule routine maintenance or repair.
Tink wrote:
I was pouring the the documents and found that Zimmerman was prescribed Adderall and Temazepam. I wonder what his diagnosis was. If it were a mental illness, then that would have disqualified him from having a concealed and carry permit under current laws.


At a quick guess, ADHD or ADD or whatever is the popular name for the panoply of Attention Deficit Disorders.

I haven't seen this amphetamine salt combo used in anything except ADD. There may be a record of psychiatric treatment as this drug is typically used by psychiatrists unless you are in Florida - then it is popular "Doctor Feelgood" drug set (temazepam is a benzodiazepine (similar to Valium) that is used for sleep - as in bring one's system down enough to sleep for a bit).

Mebbe they are laying the groundwork for an insanity defense or mentally impaired ruling.

_________________
Image ImageImage

You can follow the action, which gets you good pictures.
You can follow your instincts, which'll probably get you in trouble.

Or... you can follow the money...
which nine times out of ten will get you closer to the truth.
"The Two Jakes"


Remember, Orly NEVAH disappoints!


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Sat May 19, 2012 9:30 am 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Tue Aug 04, 2009 2:25 am
Posts: 2877
Yeah ... I'd be more concerned with his history and use of the Adderall and its possible side effects than the Restoril.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Sat May 19, 2012 9:45 am 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Thu Sep 30, 2010 2:02 pm
Posts: 10988
Location: Stalag 13 Okanagan, WA 98840
Occupation: Drone Maintenance Officer - FAA Licensed and Certified "We Fix Drones©" Call (206) 622-0460 to schedule routine maintenance or repair.
Emma wrote:
Yeah ... I'd be more concerned with his history and use of the Adderall and its possible side effects than the Restoril.


Restoril and the rest of the benzodiazepines can cause addiction. There were plenty of little old ladies who were closet Valium addicts in the early/mid 70's before they realized how addicting it was. Xanax is in the same type of chemical class along with Atavan, Klonopin, etc. Xanax is valued to add a little extra "kick" to many abused prescription drugs.

Mebbe his prescription records from his pharmacy should be examined along with how he ended up being prescribed this type of med while carrying a pistol. The intent of the meds is to be on the meds all the time, resulting in his constantly being under the influence of an addicting or mood altering drug. There is a reason that the amphetamines are classed as a Schedule II medication putting them under the same controls as morphine, Percocet, Oxycontin/hydropmorphone, codeine, fentanyl, a couple barbiturates (Seconol, Nembutal, etc), Methadone, and so forth.

Schedule II Drug List (according to the Wiki)

_________________
Image ImageImage

You can follow the action, which gets you good pictures.
You can follow your instincts, which'll probably get you in trouble.

Or... you can follow the money...
which nine times out of ten will get you closer to the truth.
"The Two Jakes"


Remember, Orly NEVAH disappoints!


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Sat May 19, 2012 10:38 am 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Wed Aug 05, 2009 12:32 am
Posts: 19969
Location: FEMA Camp 17 -- Malibu (Hey! You! Get off the lawn!)
Occupation: Schadenfreude artist.
Legal question (Paul Lentz, where are you; or maybe Curious Blue).

Can the State introduce evidence of Zimmerman's prescription drug use or the reasons therefor (assuming it had some relevance) if Zimmerman himself doesn't raise the issue in any way?

I am having a lot of trouble with that one. Luckily I don't practice criminal law.

_________________
When there are a finite number of ways to screw something up, Orly Taitz will find an infinite number of ways to do so. (The Sternsig Rule.)


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Sat May 19, 2012 10:43 am 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Tue Sep 08, 2009 3:24 pm
Posts: 6634
BFB wrote:
Any thoughts on why the prosecution is releasing evidence?

Florida's records laws. Just about anything is required to be released upon request. The news outlets love when stuff happens in Florida.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Sat May 19, 2012 12:58 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Tue Jul 14, 2009 11:09 am
Posts: 2521
Location: Virginia
Occupation: Top banjo-scrabble-science fiction professional in the world
Quote:
Mebbe his prescription records from his pharmacy should be examined along with how he ended up being prescribed this type of med while carrying a pistol.


People with ADD and insomnia are not psychotic or impaired in such a way that would make it necessary to remove their constitutional rights.

_________________
STUDYING


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Sat May 19, 2012 1:37 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Thu Sep 30, 2010 2:02 pm
Posts: 10988
Location: Stalag 13 Okanagan, WA 98840
Occupation: Drone Maintenance Officer - FAA Licensed and Certified "We Fix Drones©" Call (206) 622-0460 to schedule routine maintenance or repair.
listeme wrote:
Quote:
Mebbe his prescription records from his pharmacy should be examined along with how he ended up being prescribed this type of med while carrying a pistol.


People with ADD and insomnia are not psychotic or impaired in such a way that would make it necessary to remove their constitutional rights.


The Restoril in this case is being used to let the patient sleep after taking the Amphetamine Salts all day.

_________________
Image ImageImage

You can follow the action, which gets you good pictures.
You can follow your instincts, which'll probably get you in trouble.

Or... you can follow the money...
which nine times out of ten will get you closer to the truth.
"The Two Jakes"


Remember, Orly NEVAH disappoints!


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Sat May 19, 2012 1:42 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Tue Jul 14, 2009 11:09 am
Posts: 2521
Location: Virginia
Occupation: Top banjo-scrabble-science fiction professional in the world
SueDB wrote:
listeme wrote:
Quote:
Mebbe his prescription records from his pharmacy should be examined along with how he ended up being prescribed this type of med while carrying a pistol.


People with ADD and insomnia are not psychotic or impaired in such a way that would make it necessary to remove their constitutional rights.


The Restoril in this case is being used to let the patient sleep after taking the Amphetamine Salts all day.


I know exactly what both are for. I stand by my statement.

_________________
STUDYING


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Sat May 19, 2012 1:43 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Thu Sep 30, 2010 2:02 pm
Posts: 10988
Location: Stalag 13 Okanagan, WA 98840
Occupation: Drone Maintenance Officer - FAA Licensed and Certified "We Fix Drones©" Call (206) 622-0460 to schedule routine maintenance or repair.
listeme wrote:
SueDB wrote:
listeme wrote:

People with ADD and insomnia are not psychotic or impaired in such a way that would make it necessary to remove their constitutional rights.


The Restoril in this case is being used to let the patient sleep after taking the Amphetamine Salts all day.


I know exactly what both are for. I stand by my statement.


Without seeing the patient, it is hard to make a judgement, eh? I would think this would depend on how dangerous the patient is to himself or others.

_________________
Image ImageImage

You can follow the action, which gets you good pictures.
You can follow your instincts, which'll probably get you in trouble.

Or... you can follow the money...
which nine times out of ten will get you closer to the truth.
"The Two Jakes"


Remember, Orly NEVAH disappoints!


Top
 Profile  
 
Display posts from previous:  Sort by  
Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 1068 posts ]  Go to page Previous  1 ... 23, 24, 25, 26, 27, 28, 29 ... 43  Next   

All times are UTC - 5 hours [ DST ]


Who is online

Users browsing this forum: GreatGrey and 1 guest


You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot post attachments in this forum

Jump to:  
View new posts | View active topics



Powered by phpBB® Forum Software © phpBB Group