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PostPosted: Mon Feb 27, 2012 2:32 pm 
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http://www.azcentral.com/news/politics/ ... -bill.html

Without further comment, 'cause I'm too pissed for words right now.

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PostPosted: Mon Feb 27, 2012 2:47 pm 
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$2K is nothing to the parents of rich kids, so only poor and middle class kids will have "skin in the game"...

Edit: Athletic and merit scholars would be exempt
:roll:

But some poor kid who had to work all during High School to help support the family and so couldn't play sports or didn't get merit scholarships gets hit with $2K of fees.

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PostPosted: Mon Feb 27, 2012 2:52 pm 
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Sequoia32 wrote:
$2K is nothing to the parents of rich kids, so only poor and middle class kids will have "skin in the game"...

Edit: Athletic and merit scholars would be exempt
:roll:

But some poor kid who had to work all during High School to help support the family and so couldn't play sports or didn't get merit scholarships gets hit with $2K of fees.


"Rep. Michelle Ugenti, R-Scottsdale, replied, "Welcome to life.""

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PostPosted: Mon Feb 27, 2012 3:05 pm 
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Mikedunford wrote:
Sequoia32 wrote:
$2K is nothing to the parents of rich kids, so only poor and middle class kids will have "skin in the game"...

Edit: Athletic and merit scholars would be exempt
:roll:

But some poor kid who had to work all during High School to help support the family and so couldn't play sports or didn't get merit scholarships gets hit with $2K of fees.


"Rep. Michelle Ugenti, R-Scottsdale, replied, "Welcome to life.""


This is the other side of making contraception and abortion unavailable or unaffordable. Welcome to (pro) life, indeed! Once you make it out of the womb, you are on your own unless you choose wealthy parents.

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PostPosted: Mon Feb 27, 2012 3:07 pm 
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Mikedunford wrote:
Sequoia32 wrote:
$2K is nothing to the parents of rich kids, so only poor and middle class kids will have "skin in the game"...

Edit: Athletic and merit scholars would be exempt
:roll:

But some poor kid who had to work all during High School to help support the family and so couldn't play sports or didn't get merit scholarships gets hit with $2K of fees.


"Rep. Michelle Ugenti, R-Scottsdale, replied, "Welcome to life.""


Welcome to your party not having this guy's vote for life, asshole.

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PostPosted: Mon Feb 27, 2012 3:29 pm 
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Republicans are destroying our country right and left.

America is supposed to be the land of opportunity but they are making it more and more the land of opportunity only for the rich.

They are dumbing down education and making us less competitive in the world and by making contraception and abortion more difficult to get, guaranteeing an ever growing underclass.

They make me want to puke.

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PostPosted: Mon Feb 27, 2012 3:52 pm 
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It's worse than the few comments above indicate:

Quote:
Kavanagh decided to introduce the bill this year after listening to testimony in a House committee meeting last year where ASU President Michael Crow said that nearly half of ASU students pay no tuition at all.

Crow was referring to a specific group of students: full-time, in-state undergraduates who in the 2009-10 school year received enough money in grants and scholarships to effectively offset the price of tuition.


On Wednesday, a regents staffer said the "nearly half" figure in 2009-10 was an "anomaly" that year because of increased federal grants and that year's tuition rates. Since then, tuition has gone up. The most current figure is closer to 25 percent, said Christine Thompson, the regents' vice president of government relations.

So, to recap.

Tuition is not free. But Kavanagh (R-cretin) heard that half of pupils paid none. Not being an inhabitant of the real world, he decided "outrage!" "Make them pay something! It will be good for their character! Nobody should get anything for free, least of all poor people!"

Meanwhile, back in the real world, what this bill does, in effect, is say: "All those pupils who would not have been able to go to college were it not for grants and scholarships -- i.e., the neediest -- don't bother." It is precisely targeted at the neediest, and the most needy will feel the greatest impact. Those who were already paying $2k out of pocket (because their household resources were too high to qualify for more aid) will feel no impact.

Who says there's no class war going on?


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PostPosted: Mon Feb 27, 2012 4:59 pm 
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azcentral.com wrote:
Athletic and merit scholars would be exempt,...

http://www.azcentral.com/news/politics/ ... -bill.html
When you consider the won-loss records of UA, ASU and NAU you recognize the money can be better spent elsewhere.

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PostPosted: Mon Feb 27, 2012 7:09 pm 
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According to one comment,

Quote:
Besides, the State Constitution also addresses this. From Article 11, Section 6.

"The university and all other state educational institutions shall be open to students of both sexes, and the instruction furnished shall be as nearly free as possible. "

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PostPosted: Mon Feb 27, 2012 10:49 pm 
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This is such a distorted concept.

Who knew college was free?! I didn't. I thought that ALL students were responsible for funding their education. Grants are part of that funding, but grants never pay for all of one's tuition at a public college.

The average student graduates with over $22,000 in college loans. That doesn't include the credit card debt they usually have after graduation. The idea that students and their families aren't paying for college is absurd.

Those with college degrees tend to be more politically liberal. This bill is an attempt to decrease the number of liberal voters.

Last Nov, Time published The New Generation Gap. The article is excellent, and explores a report by the Pew Research Center, The Rising Age Gap in economic Well-Being. I wouldn't be surprised if the AZ bill is in direct response to these new figures.

Quote:
.... For the past several years, our political conversation has focused on great divides in our national life: red and blue, the coasts vs. the heartland, the 1% vs. the 99%. But the deepest split is the one that cuts across all these and turns not on income or geography but on age. In the past few national elections, young and old Americans have diverged more in their voting than at any other time since the end of the Vietnam War, according to the findings of an extensive new Pew Research Center poll. The survey reveals that the youngest and oldest voters have strikingly different views on everything from the role of government to the impact of the Internet and suggests that the 2012 election could be one of the starkest intergenerational showdowns in American history, not just in Florida but coast to coast. Different generations rarely vote in lockstep; each is shaped by different formative influences. But this is something unusual. "We've got the largest generation gap in voting since 1972," says Andrew Kohut, president of the Pew Research Center. "Since 2004 we've seen younger people voting much more Democratic than average and older people much more Republican than average. And that may well play out again in 2012." Indeed, Pew's Generational Politics poll shows a yawning generation gap in a hypothetical matchup between Obama and Republican Mitt Romney. Voters 30 or younger favor Obama 61% to 37%. Seniors over 65 choose Romney 54% to 41%. With Americans born from 1946 to 1980 (baby boomers and Gen Xers) almost evenly divided, the youngest and oldest voters stand in even starker contrast.

On one side are the millennial voters, meaning Americans born after 1980 who have come of age during the Clinton, Bush or Obama presidencies. Having lived through a period of dramatic social and demographic change, these voters harbor strongly liberal-leaning views about society and government. That's partly because the U.S.'s youngest voters represent change: about 40% of them are nonwhite. As a group they lean left on social issues--strongly supporting interracial and same-sex marriages by wide majorities. They believe government has a positive role to play even in seniors' lives. Millennial voters, like so many other Americans, consider themselves economically dissatisfied. And yet they believe, 46% to 27%, that life in the U.S. has improved since the 1960s, in part thanks to the technology revolution they have inherited. "I have an iPhone, and I would die without it," says FAU freshman Lizzie Barnes.

snip.....

Silent Generation members are twice as likely as millennials to call themselves "angry" with the government, and they trust Republicans more than Democrats on nearly every key issue. Obama appears to be a contributing factor in their discontent; they are the most disapproving of the job he's doing. How much of this disdain is a function of Obama's policies and how much is a comment on his background is anyone's guess. But some combination of the change he has championed and the change he actually represents is too much for some of these voters to accept. "There is this sense that comes out of the poll that Obama represents the changing face of America that some older people are uncomfortable with," says Kohut.

snip.....

And yet for both parties, there's a cautionary wobble in the simple notion of two generations colliding as the 2012 elections approach. The millennials and the Silents alike have deep qualms about their probable choices at the polls next year. That's especially true for the 30-and-under crowd. Although a massive turnout of voters like FAU student Serna helped carry Obama to the White House in 2008, young voters' approval of his job performance has plummeted. So has their interest in the political process. Four years ago, 28% of voters age 30 or younger said they had given a lot of thought to the presidential candidates. Today that number is down to a paltry 13%. Young voters also say they care less about who is elected President than they did four years ago, when the presidential race meant nearly as much to them as it did to their grandparents. Only 69% of millennials now say they care "a good deal" about who wins the presidency, down from 81% four years ago. Such views suggest that many of those young 2008 Obama voters may be tuned out for good and that Democrats will do battle in 2012 without their most energetic foot soldiers. "They're not feeling loyal to the party," says Molly Andolina, a professor of political science at DePaul University who studies the youth vote. "Whether or not they're going to get out there and work in the trenches and show up on Election Day is a big question." Andolina also wonders whether the Occupy Wall Street movement could become a substitute outlet beyond the political system for the energy of frustrated young people. It's no wonder Obama has reached out to a younger audience of late through gestures like his new plan to relieve the crushing burden of student-loan debt and a series of Obama Student Summits kicking off this month.

snip.....


The Obama admin has focused intensely on higher education, and has championed community colleges because they are the most affordable way for students to begin their college education. Between Nov 2008-Jan 2009, Obama put a lot of thought into developing a strategy for higher education so that his plans for higher ed could be in place immediately after he stepped into office. Repubs are threatened by the Obama admin's focused efforts to make college accessible to every American. Repubs don't believe that a college education should be available to any American that wants a college degree. The reason is simple; this is class warfare.

Last week, Santorum accused Obama of wanting to increase college enrollment to 'indoctrinate' students.

Quote:
DALLAS, Texas - Republican presidential candidate Rick Santorum said Thursday that President Obama wants more young adults to go to college so they can undergo "indoctrination" to a secular world view.

snip.....

On the president's efforts to boost college attendance, Santorum said, "I understand why Barack Obama wants to send every kid to college, because of their indoctrination mills, absolutely ... The indoctrination that is going on at the university level is a harm to our country."

He claimed that "62 percent of kids who go into college with a faith commitment leave without it," but declined to cite a source for the figure. And he floated the idea of requiring universities that receive public funds have "intellectual diversity" on campus.

snip.....

He said, "Education should be the parental responsibility and the local community should be the one to be working with the parents to make sure that children get the best educational in environment for each child in America. The federal government needs to get out of education. The state government by and large needs to get out of education, other than making sure there are sufficient resources, particularly in poorer neighborhoods, to be able to help (have) some sort of equality of education in America ... to have the resources to have the best customized education."

snip.....


So, Santorum wants state and federal governments out of education but wants the fed government to institute "intellectual diversity" on campus. Schools should have the freedom to "customize" their education ... while forcing public colleges to shape their curriculum to match ideological, not academic criteria.

In 2012, Sarah Palin also attacked higher education in "her" 2nd book, America By Heart. She believes that Toll and I are threats to democracy and human decency. No one read "Palin's" 2nd book, so little was said about her thoughts about the ebil, ebil college professors. So far, none of Palin's college age children are attending college.

Repubs are attacking 2 of the most effective uses of taxpayer money; family planning and higher education. Both return to the fed government more in money than they take. The most religiously conservative Americans shun birth control and higher education. They believe that God should shape family size and that a college education is unnecessary. Thus, you are to procreate as much as possible while not accessing the one institution that allows parents to afford to raise their children ... higher education. By blocking one generation from a college education, the Repubs increase the likelihood that future generations won't attend college.

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PostPosted: Mon Feb 27, 2012 10:59 pm 
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LM K wrote:
So far, none of Palin's college age children are attending college.


Future Republicans, every one.


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PostPosted: Tue Feb 28, 2012 12:16 am 
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"The reason is simple; this is class warfare," as LM K writes.

Indeed it is. It is class warfare waged as it has been waged for most of human history: those with power fight to keep the others down. The rich need the poor for many reasons. One of the non-economic reasons is that they need the poor so that they can tell themselves how skillfully good and how morally great they are.

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