From Think Progress
http://thinkprogress.org/justice/2012/1 ... ell-davis/

White Man Shoots And Kills Black Student In Florida After Argument Over Loud Music



More at the link

I was about to post this I'm glad I checked the active topics. But this is sad again with the stand your ground nonsense.

At least this guy was arrested right away.

These stand your ground laws are ridiculous. It's eventually going to come down to "Well judge he looked at me while black, what else could I do?" Judge, "Ok fair enough, case dismissed."

The law needs changed badly.

Will Florida legislators now take a serious look at this POS law?

Seems to me like the teenagers' car was parked first. It was their ground to stand. Unless there is some evidence this man had a reasonable belief he was threatened, it seems that he was the interloper, so to speak. Hopefully the cops did a blood alcohol test on Daddy of the Groom.

I would like to think so but as long as Republicans hold power there and them being beholden to the NRA, it's unlikely.

Daddy of the Groom fled the scene. He was apprehended at his home (allegedly while preparing to turn himself in) the following day in another county.

What we should say is another Stand Your Ground Claim.  What is it with all these degenerative assholes who go around thinking they are in an episode of Deadwood?!?!  

Be courteous and safe my son.  I am sorry I have to remind you of that, but I worry.

Another kid gone. Awful.

One of the comments from the link in the OP.



I don't have a whole lot of faith in Florida voters getting some competent folks in the state legislature and governor's mansion to be rid of this law. Symphon Swan may end up being correct.

No, the law will end when it starts impacting tourism.

Correction: No, the law will end when it starts impacting WHITE tourism.

I must have missed the part that gives him a basis to claim a 'stand your ground defense.' How was he threatened? Did anyone leave the vehicle where the young man was killed? Were the young men anywhere they were not supposed to be doing anything they were not supposed to do? It sounds like straight up murder from what I read.

I can't stand cars playing music I can feel at 100 meters away but has never occurred to me that I should shoot somebody over it.

Most jurisdictions have some law which addresses music that loud. Leave it up to the police to tell them to turn it down to non-earsplitting level.

The same advice was given to Zimmerman, but he did not take it. This is another murder by a white man of a black youth, one of hundreds over the years.

He tawt he taw a shotgun.

Edit: Plus, he knew he saw a car with "at least four black men in it." There's a basis for "stand your ground" right there.

It does, and we should keep in mind that the shooter is in custody without bail.

So his gun was in the glove compartment, yet he had time to get it out, load it, and fire 6-8 shots without the alleged shotgun going off? I hate having the public decide cases without all the evidence being in, but this case raises a whole heap of questions. Not many good for the shooter.

Yes, and to that extent this is not a replay of Trayvon Martin. But I've noted several comments along the lines of this one, from a local attorney:

What strikes me as odd is the absence of any mention of the death penalty. It suits my views; I'm opposed to the death penalty, and to public calls for the blood of accused criminals.

But Florida is a strong believer in capital punishment. It boasts more death sentences since 1977 (889) than any state but King Texas (932), and is fourth in the number of executions carried out. Figures are here.

Why the general expectation that life in prison is the worst sentence Dunn is facing? Would we hear the same thing if a black man had shot up a car filled with white teenagers? It's the problem that was mishandled in McCleskey v. Kemp, 481 U.S. 279 (1987). Racially disparate application of the death penalty (and other harsh penalties) is deeply baked into American society.

As I said, I'm no fan of the death penalty, and I guess it's quite early to expect a charging decision from the prosecutor. But if capital charges are not laid, it will be interesting to hear the rationale.

FL death sentences are for first degree murder only I believe. First degree murder charges are very specific. i.e. premeditated, killing a peace officer, committed by a felon, in the course of an escape attempt, that sort of thing. As far as I know there is no specific capital murder charge. A first degree murder charge is a capital crime though. Capital just means eligible for the death penalty and it's added to the specifc charge.

Second degree murder is the "depraved heart" charge and I'm guessing this is what he'll be charged under. The highest sentence that charge carries is life.

I'm also opposed to the death penalty, and not least because of the hideously disparate way it is applied in practice, but I took a quick look at Florida's capital murder statutes, and I'm not sure exactly how the reported circumstances would fit. As far as I can tell, only felony murder/aggravated murder are capital crimes in Florida.

The list of aggravating circumstances is found in Fla. Stat. Ann. § 921.141(5) (West). The list is not short, but the only potential item that jumps out at all is "(c) The defendant knowingly created a great risk of death to many persons," and that's probably going to be quite a stretch. Based on the facts presented so far, including the ones presented by the defense attorney, I would not be surprised to see this guy charged with either simple 1st Degree Murder (if you believe the part of his lawyer's story that has him reaching into the glove box, removing the gun, loading the gun, and shooting) or with whatever Florida's version of depraved heart murder happens to be (if you believe the part of his lawyers story that has him firing 8 to 9 shots at the car knowing that there were four people inside). And, of course, there's a good chance that I'm missing something that would make it easier to charge this as a capital crime.

Mike and Sugar,

Thanks for the interesting information about Florida's murder statutes. I guess the interesting thing is how far in advance the "premeditated design to effect the death of the person killed or any human being" must be. If Florida interprets the statute to apply only to Agatha Christie-like plots, than it clearly doesn't apply. I dimly recall cases interpreting similar statutes to the effect that the premeditation can take place in a few seconds, but perhaps they used the term "intentional" rather than premeditated.

Second Degree Murder is:

From what's been reported of the circumstances, Dunn's behavior seems a little more egregious than this definition, even if the label "premeditated" might be an uncomfortable fit.

Edit: The Florida homicide statutes are here.

In many of the jurisdictions that have passed so-called "stand your ground" laws, this law merely codified previously existing common law essentially stating that a law-abiding citizen has no duty to retreat from a threatening criminal. This, the now politically incorrect "true man" doctrine, was never intended to protect a criminal aggressor.

ALEC is entirely to blame for the current misconceptions about what conduct is protected by these laws.

Neither the murderer Zimmerman nor this murderer are actually protected by the Florida statute.

Was that BRITISH common law????????