Suit: NASA specialist axed over intelligent design

Sequoia32 · **Posted:** Sun Mar 11, 2012 8:03 pm

Quote:

David Coppedge, who worked as a "team lead" on the Cassini mission exploring Saturn and its many moons, alleges that he was discriminated against because he engaged his co-workers in conversations about intelligent design and handed out DVDs on the idea while at work. Coppedge lost his "team lead" title in 2009 and was let go last year after 15 years on the mission.

Opening statements are expected to begin Monday in Los Angeles Superior Court after two years of legal wrangling in a case that has generated interest among supporters of intelligent design. The Alliance Defense Fund, a Christian civil rights group, and the Discovery Institute, a proponent of intelligent design, are both supporting Coppedge's case.

"It's part of a pattern. There is basically a war on anyone who dissents from Darwin and we've seen that for several years," said John West, associate director of Center for Science and Culture at the Seattle-based Discovery Institute. "This is free speech, freedom of conscience 101."

The National Center for Science Education, which rejects intelligent design as thinly veiled creationism, is also watching the case and has posted all the legal filings on its website.

http://www.sacbee.com/2012/03/11/432890 ... -over.html

Sounds like he should have been fired to me.

verbalobe · **Posted:** Sun Mar 11, 2012 8:14 pm

I'm sure the Discovery Institute would also file 'freedom of speech' amicus briefs if a physician was fired from the Mayo Clinic after advocating druidic bloodletting, goat-entrail-reading, and alchemical transfusion as treatments for osteoporosis and arthritis.

Plutodog · **Posted:** Sun Mar 11, 2012 10:01 pm

I'm constitutionally tempted to be agin' him but based just on that article, I'm not sure the religious idjit doesn't have a case. 'Course IANAL and maybe other data is out there. And too, also, he might have a case and still lose because he can't prove it.

Somerset · **Posted:** Sun Mar 11, 2012 10:07 pm

verbalobe wrote:

I'm sure the Discovery Institute would also file 'freedom of speech' amicus briefs if a physician an orderly was fired from the Mayo Clinic after advocating druidic bloodletting, goat-entrail-reading, and alchemical transfusion as treatments for osteoporosis and arthritis.

FIFY. He was an IT technician, not a main player.

I wonder how much RWNJ sympathy he would garner if he's been just as overzealous as a Hare Krishna in his workplace?

DaveMuckey · **Posted:** Sun Mar 11, 2012 10:10 pm

Kitzmiller v. Dover Schools pretty much declared ID to be the same as Creationism, and thus a religious teaching. That seems to be settled.

And the Alliance Defense Fund has been involved in a growing number of the frivolous defenses of "religious intolerance." In my mind, the workplace is not an appropriate place to proselytize your religious views to your unwilling coworkers.

I see Coppedge as the likely second place finisher on this one.

Somerset · **Posted:** Sun Mar 11, 2012 10:36 pm

Plutodog wrote:

I'm constitutionally tempted to be agin' him but based just on that article, I'm not sure the religious idjit doesn't have a case. 'Course IANAL and maybe other data is out there. And too, also, he might have a case and still lose because he can't prove it.

IANAL too. Also. But JPL is pretty professional, and I'd guess that their HR and legal departments had a long, hard look at this one before he was terminated. Again, just a guess, but it's looking like might be a case where he didn't get preferential treatment rather than being actively discriminated against.

When a team is dissolved there is no longer a need for a "team leader," and there is nothing improper about not re-appointing an old team leader to a new position, especially if they didn't perform very well. Along the same lines, if planned layoffs are happening a company has no obligation to try and re-deploy workers they weren't all that happy with. It sounds to me like this guy made it a point to be a vocal evangelical Christian first and an IT technician second. That may be his right, but he was being paid to be a technician, not an evangelist. I have no idea how good this guy was at his job, but given JPL's decision not to find him a new job it wouldn't surprise me if he and Dr. Drew shared similar views on their own competence.

Plutodog · **Posted:** Mon Mar 12, 2012 12:03 am

Could very well be. I just haven't seen the actual evidence of him over-doing his proselytizing, forcing it on people, etc. I despise being proselytized at all or seeing it happen but I do think people do have some right to do it within decent boundaries as long as they're not doing it on the clock to the detriment of work--as much as I dislike it. It seems our rights aren't any safer than those of folks who disgust me if we're not damned careful to protect their rights.

Luckily, this will be settled in court, not here.

neonzx · **Joined:** Tue Mar 10, 2009 9:27 am **Posts:** 4216

His website:

http://www.crev.info/

Let me update thread title: NASA IT GURU, who knows jack-shit about "scientific theory", is suing ...

Suranis · **Joined:** Sat Nov 20, 2010 8:04 am **Posts:** 5253

To my mind theres not enough information in the article to make a judgement either way. Too many unknowns. It will be an interesting case to watch.

listeme · **Posted:** Mon Mar 12, 2012 9:55 am

neonzx wrote:

His website:

http://www.crev.info/

Let me update thread title: NASA IT GURU, who knows jack-shit about "scientific theory", is suing ...

Yikes.

Quote:

If evolution teaches that human intelligence is the main trait separating us from other animals, and dogs are smarter than apes, shouldn’t the conclusion be that dogs are closer on the family tree? If not, is it valid for evolutionary biologists to pick and choose the traits that matter?

He's referring to the recent study comparing dogs' and chimps' understanding of imperative pointing.

If I ever write my book, "People Who Don't Believe In Evolution Just Don't Understand What It Is", I'm using that as one of my examples.

verbalobe · **Posted:** Mon Mar 12, 2012 10:04 am

Every time I look at this thread I think "NASA Suit Specialist"

GreatGrey · **Posted:** Mon Mar 12, 2012 11:11 am

Quote:

David Coppedge, who worked as a "team lead" on the Cassini mission exploring Saturn and its many moons, alleges that he was discriminated against because he engaged his co-workers in conversations about intelligent design and handed out DVDs on the idea while at work. Coppedge lost his "team lead" title in 2009 and was let go last year after 15 years on the mission.

At that point, it's Game Over.

He can scream Freedom of Speech all he wants to, but not at work. Go do it out on the corner.

kate520 · **Posted:** Mon Mar 12, 2012 11:54 am

I bet his coworkers loved the discussions! In fact, I bet they were so excited that they went to their supervisors several times in excitement and told them all about the exciting discussions this guy was forcing on them, as if they weren't adult, professional, sciencey types who were entitled to be left alone about religious crap at work

I worked with a woman who could not resist bringing her born again-ness into every discussion. When we heard the news that our coworker's husband had died suddenly, she tried to gather us into a prayer circle. She made sure his widow knew that he probably wasn't going to heaven, since he was Jewish. She lamented that for a while. There was no subject she couldn't turn into a religious theme and completely exhaust all spark of further discussion. Her supervisor finally had a talk with her and she burned with resentment for a long time. She accused some of persecution.

Religion is private and personal in the workplace. It should be everywhere else, too, but that horse left the barn a while ago.

Paul Pieniezny · **Posted:** Mon Mar 12, 2012 12:01 pm

How can a creationist work for NASA? Does not the Bible teach us how the earth and heaven were created apart from each other and that excepting Jesus, only dead people go to heaven?

ducktape · **Posted:** Mon Mar 12, 2012 1:27 pm

kate520 wrote:

Religion is private and personal in the workplace. It should be everywhere else, too, but that horse left the barn a while ago.

About 25 years ago, I had to have this discussion with one of my staff. He brought up his freedom of speech and freedom of religion. I brought up his employment being "at will," and advised that he was welcome to exercise his freedom of speech, but not on the time or in the space that I was paying for. I also reminded him that everyone who worked at my shop also had a right to not be proselyted and have someone else's religion imposed on them while they were there to do their jobs.

The guy wasn't a Christian fundie -- he was a Hispanic guy who had converted to Judiasm, and the person he kept proselyting was the other (ethnically) Jewish employee, who the convert felt was not sufficiently and properly observant. (I think he also was actually jealous of the "real Jew," because he really seemed to have a thing about his non-observances, to the point of leaving guidebooks and other stuff on his desk, while he didn't push it on anyone else.)

This clueless dude ultimately was let go for being clueless about a lot of things. Before you "stand up for your rights," it's a good idea to know what those rights are, and to understand what they are not.

TollandRCR · **Posted:** Mon Mar 12, 2012 3:21 pm

Back in the Middle Ages, one of my employees was harassed by another employee about her religion or lack of religion. This was through e-mails, personal visits to her office, and leaving tracts on her desk. When I was told about this, I acted to stop it. This went to a disciplinary hearing, which I think was a first on that campus for religious harassment. The employee was suspended for two weeks and warned to knock it off when he returned. Instead, he got another job elsewhere. I suspect that he is still harassing his colleagues; a two-week suspension was too light a punishment.

Somerset · **Posted:** Wed Mar 14, 2012 2:55 am

Now that the trial has started, JPL is starting to tell their side of the story

http://religion.blogs.cnn.com/2012/03/1 ... nt-design/

Quote:

In their response to the civil suit, attorneys for JPL stated in court documents that one of Coppedge's co-workers complained to his supervisor that Coppedge made her feel so uncomfortable in discussing "non work related topics" that it bordered on harassment. The supervisor encouraged Coppedge to limit his discussions about topics like religion and politics to periods like lunch breaks, according to the response.

The documents state that other co-workers complained they also felt harassed when Coppedge expressed views in favor of California Proposition 8, the ballot initiative in 2010 that defined marriage between and man and woman.

"David Coppedge alienated his co-workers by the way he acted with them, and blamed anyone who complained about those interactions," according to JPL in their response. "He accuses his former project supervisor and line manager of making discriminatory and retaliatory employment decision, when they had in fact protected him for years."

JPL alleged that Coppedge "was seen as stubborn, unwilling to listen and always having to do things his way, which frustrated project members and resulted in errors."

It sounds like JPL has a fair amount of documentation from other employees, as well as his direct supervisor(s). It also sounds like Coppedge was doing a pretty good job of creating a hostile work environment on his own, which was putting JPL in a situation where they could be sued by other employees. His termination might have been a little iffy in a termination for cause situation, but in a layoff situation I would think they're on pretty solid ground (which I would guess is why they waited for a planned layoff to get rid of him).

Edit: Added some thoughts

Suranis · **Joined:** Sat Nov 20, 2010 8:04 am **Posts:** 5253

If JPL's statement is accurate, it sounds like the guy was axed for a lot morew than simply believing in Intellegent Design.

SueDB · **Posted:** Wed Mar 14, 2012 7:25 am

And it looks like NASA/JPL has his track record of documenting the incidents for quite some time. From one of these jobs it is hard to get 'fired'/not renewed/layoff-Even for moronic IT folks. Simply because EVERYTHING in a case like this is documented/witnessed. If the info is true, then is looks JPL was in line for harassment and other (seemingly in this case) charges from the rest of the staff.

When you lay off someone like this, you always document the incidents to a crossed I and dotted T.

Falsehoods unchallenged only fester and grow.

Suit: NASA specialist axed over intelligent design

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